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screen printing => Newbie => Topic started by: noiseloops on February 19, 2013, 07:35:46 AM
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me and couple of buds are thinking of starting a tee printing biz. its a collection of our designs.
to paint a background, out here from where i come from, screen printing is a saturated biz that is dominated by the big leagues and not a lot helpful workarounds. a couple of local suppliers but mainly for inks.
i have only worked on single color prints previously that I have done for band tees which i most used the ryonet silver startup press. and if its not a difficult 2 color job, i'll use the "eye" registration technique. hehehe.
then came along these 2 other friends who want to invest in getting a multi colored setup going.
i have scoured over and all these info basically leads to investing in a good multi color press. and it doesnt look cheap.
was seeking your advice/inputs on which setup i should be looking at.
1) what manual press would be gd start point without being over the hill. was looking at the ryonet silver press / riley hopkins econo / workhorse odyssey 4-1 setup.
2) would a flash cure unit be handy as we're mostly printing on water based inks, or would be advisable to switch to plastisol.
any other hidden stuff that i should be aware of before making the plunge into multi prints?
its a lengthy read, and thank you for any advice. all i know is for certain that we are going ahead with multi colors.
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Do not go with a cheap press, get as many colors and pallets as possible. Look into used presses, get conveyor.
I have started with about 4K, with that I bought used Antec Legend 6/4 (One of the best on the market) with auto flash, Atlas 824 conveyor, Nuarc 40-1K exposure unit and I have built washout booth for another $200.
Look around and do not "cheep out" with a small press. (You'll thank me in a year or two)
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Alot to comment on but most importantly a good dryer really is adviseable for WB vs a flash.
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well first off this is a great industry with a lot of cool people...To start I would say go to the Atlantic City ISS SHOW! it is only a few weeks away.
there I would look at all the different stuff then buy M&R.
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well first off this is a great industry with a lot of cool people...To start I would say go to the Atlantic City ISS SHOW! it is only a few weeks away.
there I would look at all the different stuff then buy M&R.
unfortunately, Normann is in Singapore so I doubt the trip to ISS AC is in the budget!
pierre
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The best advice for a newbie wanting to break into this rag business..
Run as fast as you can away from this mess we call screen printing
There is nothing good and 'cheap' about printing shirts period!
If your area is already saturated, then sell and use the locals to print, you'll make more
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The best advice for a newbie wanting to break into this rag business..
Run as fast as you can away from this mess we call screen printing
There is nothing good and 'cheap' about printing shirts period!
If your area is already saturated, then sell and use the locals to print, you'll make more
I have to agree here. Brokering printing is a ton easier and if your good at sales you will make more for your time. The key is to find some dumb screen printer that thinks they are worth nothing. Find that guy that will believe you when you say the guy down the road is only charging me 10 cents a color. That is the guy you want to work with. Then after you negotiate the Sh!t out of his prices then tell him he has to do top quality work for you. Make sure to tell him your going to bring him a ton of work. If you can find that guy then your business will be a success. While your at it you may want to find 2 guys like that. Even thou your giving the first guy a ton of work they will hardly be able to pay the bills on what your paying. They will do it for a few years because they think as long as they are printing they are making money but its inevitable they will go out of business. Its always good to have a back up.
Best of luck and if you do get a press and want to print learn everything you can. It alot of fun at times and you can make money if your not like that dumb screen printer that thinks they are worth nothing.
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Just to play devil's advocate here, I know of at least one fairly large, award winning shop that began because of problems with their contracted printer.
Sometimes, it's nice to be in control.
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Businessman printing or printer in business.
I know I could only be one of those.
Welcome aboard!
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@DKgrafix problem with that is I'm out here in Asia, Singapore. Bummer I guess.
@tonypep noted, will start sourcing for a good one then. issue is prices are ridiculous out here and one of the distributors just got back with a SGD$1200(USD$900) for a flash cure unit. thats the problem when there's not many hobbyist out there.
@Socalfmf would love a trip up. Facetime it for me maybe? ;D
@pierre cheers!
@jsheridan one thing about asians are their stubborn mentality. hehehe. but again, we're not really looking to sell them for cheap. i'm just trying to figure out a cost effective one and minimize the mistakes. i came across a post early on about not settling on wooden frames and just head straight for the metal ones. which i thought was sound advice. we fully know that its not gonna be easy. i made a bad judgment call on my own just getting a single color press early on. so hopefully with this new phase, we're ironing out our options.
@Jon cheers for the heads up. we do have our backup guy to go to. but for me, we're trying to make this work with our own setup. tough work yes, but i have enjoyed the ride so far. ;D
@Frog cheers mate!
@ebscreen cheers mate!
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@DKgrafix problem with that is I'm out here in Asia, Singapore. Bummer I guess.
Well, I did not know that small detail when I answered :)
Just move to US, problem solved.....
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@DKgrafix problem with that is I'm out here in Asia, Singapore. Bummer I guess.
Well, I did not know that small detail when I answered :)
Just move to US, problem solved.....
so am i taking your couch or garage? hehehe.
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@DKgrafix problem with that is I'm out here in Asia, Singapore. Bummer I guess.
Well, I did not know that small detail when I answered :)
Just move to US, problem solved.....
so am i taking your couch or garage? hehehe.
Well, I know how it is. I came to the States in 2000 and took a spare room at my relative's for 6 months until I "got on my feet"
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Well, I know how it is. I came to the States in 2000 and took a spare room at my relative's for 6 months until I "got on my feet"
nice, thats a swell deal man!
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as far as the production end, run like the wind......let me tell you how this sht goes....
you start out with a small 4 color 1 staion press, homemade exposure unit, a cute little rack of super clean wooden screens, all your pretty inks in nice labled buckets without a drip on the container. nice clean sharp squeegies dieing for a chance to get used. you slowly build up business from the cub scouts and little old ladies at church..then you need to be faster...so you buy a better manual press, with more stations...then you need to upgrade your screens but your cute little screen rack doesn't hold the larger frames and neither does your exposure unit. now you have to buy that sht again..then your pretty little ink buckets start to look like they went through a paint mixer without the lid on. now your so busy you need help -so you turn to friends...they see the money coming in and bitch because you only pay them 50.00 for the day...so now they get miffed and tell you to piss off...oh isn't this fun, so now you need a bigger space, insurance, employees, bigger equipment, a repair guy to fix all this equipment WHEN it breaks...."checks are in the mail" from orders 90 days out, money is tighter than a virgin cooter, your employees still need to get paid, rent is due, your ink costs are going up 25% and you popped your last 305 screen on a rush order. your kids can't eat good intentions so you have to bleed a stone to take money home...see where this is going?
yeah...it's a blast :o . . .send it ALL out to a contract shop, go fishing.
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@homer woah, i hope the moniker/alias does not have anything to do with a reference to Homer Simpson. Cause that lengthy reply was well worth a jolt!
Thanks again for the advice man. I certainly will digest it up and give ur advice a great deal of time.
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My advise is to buy at least one quality piece of equipment to start out with. That way, when you have a day like Homer described, you can go hug it. Cause it's the only thing in the shop that will love you as much as you love it.
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. .send it ALL out to a contract shop, go fishing.
Lol, that would be a great signature line....
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Homer pretty much nailed it!
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If everyone contracted out, who would actually print?
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If everyone contracted out, who would actually print?
The guy screwing over everybody with really high prices. He has no competition.
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Cheers again for all the love and words so far. ????
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If everyone contracted out, who would actually print?
The guy screwing over everybody with really high prices. He has no competition.
Well technically that's what's happening out here. Where u either follow or juz ship out.
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well first off this is a great industry with a lot of cool people...To start I would say go to the Atlantic City ISS SHOW! it is only a few weeks away.
there I would look at all the different stuff then buy M&R.
sam arnt you running the new ryonet auto? :) m/r who are they?
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haha, I'm just giving you the worst of it...there are way more benefits than issues...most of the time haha...every job has it's day. it all comes down to how bad do you want it...so go get it...
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One time I had to climb up on top of my press and when I came back down my foot landed in a gallon bucket of red ink.
I was really happy to be a screenprinter on that particular day.
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The best advice for a newbie wanting to break into this rag business..
Run as fast as you can away from this mess we call screen printing
There is nothing good and 'cheap' about printing shirts period!
If your area is already saturated, then sell and use the locals to print, you'll make more
I have to agree here. Brokering printing is a ton easier and if your good at sales you will make more for your time. The key is to find some dumb screen printer that thinks they are worth nothing. Find that guy that will believe you when you say the guy down the road is only charging me 10 cents a color. That is the guy you want to work with. Then after you negotiate the Sh!t out of his prices then tell him he has to do top quality work for you. Make sure to tell him your going to bring him a ton of work. If you can find that guy then your business will be a success. While your at it you may want to find 2 guys like that. Even thou your giving the first guy a ton of work they will hardly be able to pay the bills on what your paying. They will do it for a few years because they think as long as they are printing they are making money but its inevitable they will go out of business. Its always good to have a back up.
Best of luck and if you do get a press and want to print learn everything you can. It alot of fun at times and you can make money if your not like that dumb screen printer that thinks they are worth nothing.
OMG that dumb printer use to be me. I use to be so naive printing for those customers. Now I stand my ground.
I am not trying to put you off, but you need to think extremely carefully before investing in equipment.
1. Check what is the minimum wage? Will you be happy to live on that?
I need to compete with people who are happy to live on $5 U.S per day. My customers customers complain I am way to high.
2. Good vs cheap equipment or inks.
If you are going cheap, you are competing against the saturated market. Anyone here (South East Asia, Indonesia) can go to the shop, invest about $20 U.S in equipment and start a low quality screen printing business.
If you are going for good quality. Are your customers willing to pay for your quality?
Go slow on it, treat it as a hobby, if you don't make money, at least you have fun doing it.
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A good example of a good biz model is a project I turned over to Rick. It was a project where I had to walk away from a collaborration between an apperal mfr and designer (both seasoned and talented) whearase I could no longer provide the printing and fulfillment the app mngr was very concerned on where to find a dependable and reputable e. coast guy. Knowing that Rick and I must have met in a distance past and having had great discussions, I knew Rick was an excellent consideration. I put them together and, despite the initial hiccups one can imagine getting started, all three parties got it together knowing this was a mutually benefitial situtuation. Since then I can't speak to how this has developed but I am hearing hints that this has led Rick to other projects and has helped him to grow his biz. It can work when the right people get together and do the proper homework and due diligence. One sided relationships rarely work.
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Go slow on it, treat it as a hobby, if you don't make money, at least you have fun doing it.
This is good advice. Now for not making good money. Well that is not true for all of us. You can make great money in this business but you have to keep your overhead low. If you don't your just making money to feed the business. I have done this in other business I started. You just keep thinking someday things will pickup or you will pay off the equipment so you can make the big bucks. Most of the time when the equipment is paid off you have to buy something else. You can get into this business very cheap. I got into it for less than $4000 with a rather nice setup with all the inks screens and everything. I made the exposure unit with a 500 watt shop light. It exposed in 13 mins. I started super small. Just buying what I needed to do the next job. I took on my first black shirts with a white print before I even had a flash. (did that one with a heat gun.) You can do great work with almost nothing. My business was never support to be a business. I just wanted to print some shirts for myself. To this day I have only printed myself 3 designs. less than 10 shirts.
When buying equipment always buy what will work not only for what your doing now but what you will be doing in the next 5 years. Some times you can't afford it but if you can do. That way you don't have to upgrade so often.
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@homer like i mentioned, i came here seeking for advice, and any form of advice shld be taken into consideration. and really i thank you for that lengthy reply. it really does drive another viewpoint that was maybe at the back of my mind even.
@ebscreen getting the odd ink on me is already a pain, i cant imagine a bucketload.
@abchung thanks mate! i think you pretty much nailed it. it was always going to be on the model of a hobby and fun.
@tonypep yep i can see where you are going with it. i had the experience of another startup where all were goin in different directions.
@Jon thanks. i think you have somehow painted a picture of what what wanted to relay earlier on into proper words.
this was always going to be a side job cause this was "forgotten" hobby of mine that i ignored for a while. i do have a full time job on hand that pays the bills. only in the past year have i picked up screen printing again. and recently, theres been that case of what if i upgraded from single colors to multi colors. thus why i have sourced extensive on multi colors and basically got myself into a knot. hahaha.
we are not in a rush for things to take off in an instant. its just like how Jon mentioned it, to get things in cost effectively. and i'm still using heat gun currently. still exposing screens at 18mins using the 500w exposure unit. :) we're just looking for a good but cost effective upgrade.
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@DKgrafix problem with that is I'm out here in Asia, Singapore. Bummer I guess.
@tonypep noted, will start sourcing for a good one then. issue is prices are ridiculous out here and one of the distributors just got back with a SGD$1200(USD$900) for a flash cure unit. thats the problem when there's not many hobbyist out there.
@Socalfmf would love a trip up. Facetime it for me maybe? ;D
@pierre cheers!
@jsheridan one thing about asians are their stubborn mentality. hehehe. but again, we're not really looking to sell them for cheap. i'm just trying to figure out a cost effective one and minimize the mistakes. i came across a post early on about not settling on wooden frames and just head straight for the metal ones. which i thought was sound advice. we fully know that its not gonna be easy. i made a bad judgment call on my own just getting a single color press early on. so hopefully with this new phase, we're ironing out our options.
@Jon cheers for the heads up. we do have our backup guy to go to. but for me, we're trying to make this work with our own setup. tough work yes, but i have enjoyed the ride so far. ;D
@Frog cheers mate!
@ebscreen cheers mate!
I`m in Asia too, Japan to be precise. Very competitive here especially due to the close proximity to China. Mind you getting stuff done in China is getting more and more unpopular here in Japan and the prices over there have been going up a lot anyway. If you need some good equipment send me a message and I`ll hook you up with M&R`s regional sales person who is a good friend of mine. I know a very good distributer for equipment and supplies in Thailand too. They do all the big brands and some less known once too. Ulano has their Asia HQ in Singapore by the way.
Of course I can speak only for myself but I could not run a business which is based only on outsourcing work, I enjoy screen printing far too much in order to do that. And who do you outsource too in your region? Most print shops in Asia are set up for min. orders of 1000s of pcs. I had a lot of guys from Singapore getting in touch with us as they could not find a place close by that would deliver good quality and take small qty orders. I would give it a go and do all the work yourself. Just make sure you have a website and facebook presence ready before you start your business.
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I`m in Asia too, Japan to be precise. Very competitive here especially due to the close proximity to China. Mind you getting stuff done in China is getting more and more unpopular here in Japan and the prices over there have been going up a lot anyway. If you need some good equipment send me a message and I`ll hook you up with M&R`s regional sales person who is a good friend of mine. I know a very good distributer for equipment and supplies in Thailand too. They do all the big brands and some less known once too. Ulano has their Asia HQ in Singapore by the way.
Of course I can speak only for myself but I could not run a business which is based only on outsourcing work, I enjoy screen printing far too much in order to do that. And who do you outsource too in your region? Most print shops in Asia are set up for min. orders of 1000s of pcs. I had a lot of guys from Singapore getting in touch with us as they could not find a place close by that would deliver good quality and take small qty orders. I would give it a go and do all the work yourself. Just make sure you have a website and facebook presence ready before you start your business.
are you sure pricing in china is getting higher? for us outsourcing work to the nearby regions has always been in the priority of malaysia ( due to locality and have the option of driving across the border), indonesia ( due to the cheap cheap pricing and comparatively high quality of work) and then all other south east asian regions such as vietnam, thailand etc. but like you mentioned these are for big orders and i will go thru them for work that more 20pcs per color. for a certain place in johor malaysia, i can even just drop the shirts that i want and get them to just print the shirts up.
i've never dealt with places like vietnam though i've heard those are the places to go to as they are really cheap. but for our startup, we're looking to get a few designs out on our own, and these will run in small numbers. i think why the quotes for min 1000 pieces are partly due to locality as it does not make sense to just ship 100 shirts and also sometimes due to you being Japan. if you know what i mean. :)
thank you for you encouragement again on getting it done ourselves. which i have always believed in right from the start. i know of ulana having a distributor based in SG. and again the issue with being out here in Asia is, the top heads do not really believe in local startups. they enjoy looking at the overseas distributor model. which i do not blame them as for just singapore contest itself, there isn't a demand for it. the demand is usually coming from the same few shops/companies. and they already have a business relationship with these few.
and those hook ups will definitely be helpful. expect that pm soon. :) cheers mate!
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here's an idea..
find out a way to get those good euro inks over here in the states.. our epa has cut the access to the good crap and we could use some good china white out here.
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are you sure pricing in china is getting higher?
definitely, people there are demanding more from their bosses, thus harder to find cheap labour.
i think why the quotes for min 1000 pieces are partly due to locality as it does not make sense to just ship 100 shirts and also sometimes due to you being Japan. if you know what i mean.
The most expensive part of my printing process is pre-press. To reduce the cost I need to get more shirt per order.
the top heads do not really believe in local startups. they enjoy looking at the overseas distributor model.
LOL.... I remember many years ago at a textile show. A main booth did not want to talk to me because I told them I was a small/start up. However, the distributor for M&R were extremely helpful, they did not care how small I was. So there are good distributors out there. Just keep on looking.
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I see you have the Odyssey listed. i would step it up one notch and go with the Workhorse Mach. Its more of a professional press and its about 900 more than the odyssey. yes the Odyssey will do everything the workhorse will do but the Workhorse will get you there more smoothly without as many struggles.
http://www.workhorseproducts.com/categories/all-manual-screen-printing-machines (http://www.workhorseproducts.com/categories/all-manual-screen-printing-machines)
Go and watch the videos and decide for yourself.
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I see you have the Odyssey listed. i would step it up one notch and go with the Workhorse Mach. Its more of a professional press and its about 900 more than the odyssey. yes the Odyssey will do everything the workhorse will do but the Workhorse will get you there more smoothly without as many struggles.
[url]http://www.workhorseproducts.com/categories/all-manual-screen-printing-machines[/url] ([url]http://www.workhorseproducts.com/categories/all-manual-screen-printing-machines[/url])
Go and watch the videos and decide for yourself.
Thanks again for the suggestion. Initially I did want to go for the mach series. But I think space for one is a major constraint in our workspace currently. Thus why we were looking at an entry level setup without taking up too muh space. Plus it'll be easier to move the press along if things doesn't work out with a table top setup.????