TSB
screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: sweetts on November 21, 2012, 03:34:06 PM
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I saw on another site that people are building exposure units with Cree LEDs looking at the ranges it looks like you could get one In the wavelength needed. Anyone play with this here?
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in the end you are really looking for a point light source. Having a lot of LED's would not be very different from black light fluorescent bulbs. . .
pierre
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That's interesting. I think Pierre is correct about the point light source but I am sure you could build a point light source of sorts with a cluster of them in a shutter type fixture. I just can't imagine you would get faster than metal Hydride exposure times so the time spent messing with them would be a waist.
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I guess they have some that are equal to a 10k watter with 120+ degrees coverage so would more than one be needed? With it pulling 3 watts imagine the savings, no heat issues and they should last forever with minimal degradation, I am just thinking if this could be on the horizon for the industry. With variable wavelengths you could in affect dial in you wavelength to match your emulsion, then change the settings of voltage and boom you have a light table.
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They use UV LED's to cure UV inks so I would assume (hate assuming) they would work fine for exposing. Heat would be a non issue, and the life cycle would be huge. Again with an assumption but clusters could be set up as a single light source using reflectors to concentrate the UV energy to a single point.
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Such an exposure unit would be very expensive. Probably a lot more then any other unit out there.
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The LED game is changing RAPIDLY and I'd just be VERY reluctant to say it isn't ever going to happen. It maybe not quite ready for our application yet, but stay tuned.
FOURSEVENS XM18 15000 Lumen Monster Light Review 4Sevens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEz1mIDMFM#ws)
I've been carrying pocket lights built around single die CREE emitters for years. They are wonderful inventions. For a mere couple grand, you too can have the above toy.
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Wow thanks for sharing those are bright
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I saw on another site that people are building exposure units with Cree LEDs
looking at the ranges it looks like you could get one In the wavelength needed.
Anyone play with this here?
Please share where and what you found.
For year friends have shown & brought small UV LEDs for curing adhesive & thin deposits of ink.
Penetration through the large surface area & thickness of stencils & mesh is more difficult.
Cree does mention their blue and royal blue LED components (450-485 nm dominant wavelengths) but in the 30 minutes I spent prowling, I found no specifics so your sightings may help target some viable info for screen makers.
Don't get me wrong, I understand LEDs are the next HUGE thing when it arrives, but we still live in a DIY world where inefficient US$1 incandescent quartz halogen work lamps & low energy diffused fluorescent lamps are popular with textile printers.
I'm interested in testing lamps with strong UV-A OUTPUT.
Stronger means better penetration to cure the entire stencil.
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It was a post on t-shirt forum.com (hope it's ok to mention them here) a guy built one and is having good results after that post it put me on the road to researching the Cree LEDs and what they are capable of.
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I know that in the more enlightened states like California which have decriminalized medicinal marijuana, the grow supply shops have LED UV lights.
For those remaining to appear inconspicuous, the lower power use could be a real plus.
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Now all we need is good air filter to hide to smell lol
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It was a post on t-shirt forum.com (hope it's ok to mention them here)
a guy built one and is having good results after that post it put me on the road to researching the Cree LEDs and what they are capable of.
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing-equipment/t189229-2.html#post1197853 (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing-equipment/t189229-2.html#post1197853)
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Yep, but unfortunately, one has to sign in (and if also necessary, sign up) to see images there.
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IMHO, using the larger higher power LED's with higher divergence would not show the strengths of the technology--as mentioned, it would turn into a Fluo UV type unit.
I spent more than a few hours looking into this, and I believe it will be quite promising--in the future. There are suppliers who deliver 370 nM (as well as 350 nM and 400 nM) 5V 20 mA LED's that are extremely efficient, and I've seen packages that keep the angle down to seven degrees. Seems to me that would be 'collimated' (My bad SP or the dictionary? :o ) so the real question would be how many you need for a full size grid--As the cheapest of the cheap still come in right around a buck each, and the answer I came up with was "too many".
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THREADJACK
You can make a badass nightvision camera using a cheapo webcam and some infrared LED's.
(like the ones in your TV remote)
/THREDJACK
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THREADJACK
You can make a badass nightvision camera using a cheapo webcam and some infrared LED's.
(like the ones in your TV remote)
/THREDJACK
that would be cool
RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com
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It cost like $20, you can literally see things in the dark (though the camera) and the "light"
is not visible to the human eye.
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Pretty cool
RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com
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It cost like $20, you can literally see things in the dark (though the camera) and the "light"
is not visible to the human eye.
Link?
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just put "webcam infrared LED" into google, there's a ton there.
Steve
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I don't know how to tell you about a great led exposure unit(within the rules), that can expose a screen in 10 sec with perfect half tones.......
I believe a IM would not break any rules. 8)
I am the guy that has been banned (from other sites) for talking about this unit.
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I don't know how to tell you about a great led exposure unit(within the rules), that can expose a screen in 10 sec with perfect half tones.......
I believe a IM would not break any rules. 8)
I am the guy that has been banned (from other sites) for talking about this unit.
post away! As long as you are respectful to others you are more than welcome to post the link and promote your product (as long as that is not your only contribution to the site!). You can also post something in the announcements section explaining the product and in intro section to tell us more about yourself.
pierre
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1st
I want to say this is the only forum that would allow me to post about this unit..
http://www.LDTronix.com (http://www.LDTronix.com)
I can't post on other forums but you can thanks again TSB is the only forum for me....
SHARE THE KNOWLEDGE
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Seems like a nice unit, are you working on more of a single point exposure unit for the near future?
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That’s a great question!
This unit was designed to give better results then any single point light source.
The HIGH POWER LEDS used in the BABY JOE 2000 output a light that is highly focused,even, and directional.
This is a game changer!
All other light sources output light in all directions; however LEDS do not have the same issues.
LEDS are a directional light source, all the other lights need a reflector to get the light going where you want it to go.
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That’s a great question!
This unit was designed to give better results then any single point light source.
The HIGH POWER LEDS used in the BABY JOE 2000 output a light that is highly focused,even, and directional.
This is a game changer!
All other light sources output light in all directions; however LEDS do not have the same issues.
LEDS are a directional light source, all the other lights need a reflector to get the light going where you want it to go.
Does that mean you would need one LED under every square inch of exposable area?
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That’s a great question!
This unit was designed to give better results then any single point light source.
The HIGH POWER LEDS used in the BABY JOE 2000 output a light that is highly focused,even, and directional.
This is a game changer!
All other light sources output light in all directions; however LEDS do not have the same issues.
LEDS are a directional light source, all the other lights need a reflector to get the light going where you want it to go.
Does that mean you would need one LED under every square inch of exposable area?
Or better stated (in my opinion) is how many LED's do you have per square inch and how much overlap do each of these LED's provide? Have you measured the amount of spill over from adjacent LED's?
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I'd like to overexpose a 10% halftone on one of those & see if you got undercutting at the margins between bulbs. Looks like a good unit, though compared to florescent.
Do you guys have any of those out in the field yet? It'd be great to hear from some folks using them how it was working out down the stretch.
Back in The Day, (1980's) I used to control on-press dot gain with my fluo light table by purposely over-exposing the halftone screens that were printing too dark. Add a couple minutes exposure time, & it's like doing a curves adjustment in Photoshop.
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Some interesting claims on there. I would think the divergence on LED's would be better than many exposure lamp/reflectors.
I'm guessing the 'lightening bars' (sp?) are like the carriage on a flatbed scanner--use less LED's, scan one axis, use one tenth the LED's for ten times as long?
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I don't understand unless it's a specially kind of LED, how you could expose emulsion with LED lights. My new screen room and imaging room is all LED bulbs, nice and bright, and no effect what so ever on un-exposed screens. I've even left them on for 4 days straight with screens sitting out and no effect at all, since, an LED, light emitting diode emits zero UV, unless there is a different kind of LED.
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They're pushing LED grow lights for indoor cultivation of, uhhmmm, tomatoes, out here in CA.
Plants enjoy a similar light spectrum as emulsion requires.
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Why the F am I just now seeing this thread? It's been around for months...
strange things.
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I get the feeling this is just more drama.
Just read this on TSF:
"LOL
You all seem to be talking like you know all about this topic, yet none of you really do. Do you?
Hard to teach people who think they know....
The fact is this unit is in the field, and crushing all other exposure units..
My customers love it!
I go out of my way to make sure of that.
If you want more FACTS find me on the other forum I'm on.
This forum stopped you from seeing this product for about a year now...SAD indeed..."
Sooo.... apparently, any unit fools like us are using for exposure is currently being crushed... although there is not yet any hard evidence to back that up. ;D
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I get the feeling this is just more drama.
Just read this on TSF:
"LOL
You all seem to be talking like you know all about this topic, yet none of you really do. Do you?
Hard to teach people who think they know....
The fact is this unit is in the field, and crushing all other exposure units..
My customers love it!
I go out of my way to make sure of that.
If you want more FACTS find me on the other forum I'm on.
This forum stopped you from seeing this product for about a year now...SAD indeed..."
Sooo.... apparently, any unit fools like us are using for exposure is currently being crushed... although there is not yet any hard evidence to back that up. ;D
Lets give him the benefit of doubt and tell him he should contact some of these satisfied customers to come on here and talk about the unit. If there really is competition crushing units out there in custys hands and strangely no one here ever heard or seen one then he should get some "Back it up" info going.
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As long as the light is in the optimum spectrum and doesn't have any real gaps or deficiencies on coverage I don't see why this wouldn't be great. Better than a 10K metal halide? Debatable I'm sure, but it has to be better than the flouro units assuming the light isn't too focused or too diffused. We do need to hear it from someone besides the proud guy that is selling the technology though, hopefully he won't feel disrespected by us wanting that.
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We still permit product promotion here, along with links as well as links in member signatures. Apparently, some forums only permit paid ads.
Otherwise, just like all artists or printers or suppliers, or other equipment manufacturers, except those banned here for previous wrong doings are always given the benefit of the doubt, welcomed here, but are also subject to the same scrutiny as anyone else, even the big boys who don't perform.
Hopefully, we'll get some real world feedback.
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Like I said, I wasn't knocking it, I just don't under stand it, must be a totally different form of LED than the LED light bulbs I am using to light up my screen room. The do not expose a thing even if you lay one right on a screen for a day nothing. What's a link to the product, I'd be interested in looking at it rather than be called a fool by someone on a forum because I don't under stand it and don't have a clear link to the actual product. That would be helpful. ;D
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LED's like fluorescent tubes or various incandecent bulbs come in many flavors.
As eb pointed out, UV led's are not uncommon in certain circles. They can apparently be tuned and made to whatever wavelenth is needed, and for these grow operations, their biggest selling points are low power consumption and much less heat.
Perhaps the exact specs of these LED's will be made available for those who both crave and understand the technical aspects of this.
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Frog beat me to it, LED's can be configured to emit different wave lengths of light. I do know they are used for UV cured inks. If memory serves me right that's how they change the colors or LED's, not colored lenses but the wave length of light. Who knows maybe the LED can emit the best possible wave length for emulsion. What we forget its a spectrum of light we can not see with our eyes that exposes the screen but associate the intensity of the light with how good or bad it is which is wrong. Some one may look at one of these and just see little white dots with the naked eye but what we can not see is the waves that actually cure the emulsion.
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It was a post on t-shirt forum.com (hope it's ok to mention them here) a guy built one and is having good results after that post it put me on the road to researching the Cree LEDs and what they are capable of.
It's more than ok to mention them here. We are not against any other forums. I even contribute on T-shirt Forums now and then.
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Allot of questions...
The one I found most important was "Why did I not see this thread before.. "
Well it is because I was on another lesser Forum that kept deleting my post. (due to forum rules)
Allot of miss information was given there, at one point they were telling members LED's flat out do not work.... IS A LIE! They work!
Truth is it is my fault...
I should have been telling the good members of THE SHIRT BOARD.
Theshirtboard.com, Where rules never get in the way of progress.
I am now a proud member of this GREAT FORUM, and I plan on being here for a while.
I am not sure how to address the skepticism, but I do understand where it is coming from.
So how can I prove to this Forum what I, and my customers already know.
As I always say
No information is better then bad information.
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I've got an idea, send me one of these little joe's and I'll do some real world testing and let everyone on this forum what the scoop is, lol.
I'll even do a video of the process and compare it to our ever trusty tri light exposure.
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LD, Have you considered sending one of these units to one of the members of the forum to test and report back. There are some sick printers here that could give us all some solid unbiased information on your unit and it's viability for production as well as return on investment. I am sure we could all chime in and nominate a forum member with a proven track record of constructive contributions to the greater good of the forum and the industry in general.
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A testimony from a current owner would be great. Call them up and ask if they would do a quick vid of some sort and post it on youtube and post the link here.
T_shirt forums is a good guy for the target audience. The owner Rodney is a good guy. He does have some strict rules on self promotion. We have rules here as well, but a little more relaxed that his. Maybe tougher in other areas. One thing we try to avoid here is talking negative about people, products and services. We simply try to state the Pro's and Con's and provide proactive feedback like many you've already seen.
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You got it
I put the requests in, so here come more members into the greatest forum I know of...
Some of you are asking for a video.. This is an exposure test at the bottom of the screenhttp://www.ldtronix.com/baby-joe-2000.html (http://www.ldtronix.com/baby-joe-2000.html)
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Please address the questions of overlap and distance between LEDs.
Not at all trying to be a prick. Just trying to best understand this technology and how it can serve me better than a single point light source.
I'm a HUGE fan of LEDs. I use them everywhere and see them in even more places (my old profession of stage lighting as well).
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I just read LED's cause Cancer. (I read it right after I wrote it here.)
Why does it look like a scanner from world war 2. Why can't it look futuristic and cool. Sorry the designer side of me would never buy it. At least paint it a cool color or but some chrome and flames on it.
Like others I can't see it not having high and low points of light. Even with directional light you have to have over lap to make sure all areas are covered. The over laps would expose faster. That is why single point light source is so important. I would like to see some tests with very fine dots. Like a 55 lpi gradient from 100 to 0. On a 305 screen.
I think you have a great product and if you can prove it works you will have a great seller. Just be careful with how you sell it. Your reputation is on the line.
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Gilligan
You asked about overlap and distance between LEDs.
Its all about balance more LED is not always better.
No simple answer here so here I go...
Placement of the LED is very important, when designing a proper exposure table.
Some of the things to consider include.
LED power output, lens shape, Nm, and quality of material they are made from.
Type of power supply used. Current flow is everything with a LED. (Caution DIY guys… You can blow out a LED or all of your LEDs in a second if you connect then wrong, or over drive them!) Also with high wattage LEDs you must consider cooling them and the space required to do that.
Table distance from LED
Glass thickness and type
I could go on for days
Any of these factors can and will effect things like.
The time required to shoot your screens, and the quality of exposure what I would call the multi-point effect, and LED life.
In reference to how LEDs can serve me better than a single point light source.
Well….Here I go again
If you get everything right like in the case of The Baby Joe 2000.
The light blends so evenly, you get the same effect as a single point light source.
We need to change the way we looked at this in the past.
You can not compare LEDs to florescent lighting they are completely different animals.
An LED by design is directional, it does not send out light in a 360 degree pattern.
A florescent lights outputs light in a 360 degree pattern and uses a reflector to help make it more directional.
Fact is a reflector will cause the light to scatter on many angles. No matter how great of a reflector you have.
Now compare LEDS to a single point lighting options….
This is where I wish I could draw..
Your single point, also outputs light in a 360 degree pattern and has a reflector.
Now imagine a line between a single point light, and the side edge of your table.
See that angle now imagine that line/beam of light going through your screen on your table, add in your reflector scattering light ever further. The bigger the table the bigger the problem.
All this adds to what I like to like to call the single point effect.
Ever wonder why it needs to be so far away, well it because it helps minimize this effect.. The farther you get the weaker your scattered light gets. The less the effect will be..
Like it or not it is not a perfect system. Not by a long shot..
If it was you would have never seen a bad exposure, but you do right?….
All that said…..
People who used both the single point system, and the Baby Joe 2000 feel it is better then any single point they used in the last 30+ years..
With all the benefits of LEDs.
Long life. 50,000-100,000hrs with little output loss….
Lower wattage requirements.
Your exposure unit is not hot enough to fry a turkey.
You don’t need the AC fighting to keep up with the turkey fry / single point light.
Between bulb cost, A/C cooling bills, Power usage, and down time dealing with the dead or fading bulbs and adjusting for it.
The Baby Joe 2000 system pays for itself. http://www.ldtronix.com/baby-joe-2000.html (http://www.ldtronix.com/baby-joe-2000.html)
Only way it could be better is if I came to your place and worked it for free…
I hope this helped……Can we post this on a new thread like LEDs 101 I think with a photo or two it could be allot shorter and clear…lol… ???
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Hi LDTRONIX,
I strongly believe if you get one of the senior member of the forum to test it out and if they get it to work. You would be selling it like hot cakes. Other than that, it would be hard for people to part with their hard earned cash for something that is unproven.
Good Luck.
Anthony
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I agree, you have to be fairly close to at least 1 member around here.
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just out of curiosity, have you considered shops that have gone to cts, no glass or draw down needed in the exposure process. Thanks for posting the video link.
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Get as many of your current customers to join this forum and tell us their experience. I have no doubts that the technology will work, but you have to have all your ducks in a row and it looks a lot more difficult than the typical DIY job most of us try to do in our shops. I'd love to see pictures of the insides as well.
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Will one of these be at the ISS show this weekend?
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Mr. Sales (I don't know if that is your name, but your email address has that as the prefix),
Please don't doubt my sincerity of LEDs... they are certainly part of the future. I also believe that this unit is likely (if it works as well as you say it does), better than any fluorescent unit out there.
Now as far as single point... this is where I'm still confused.
I'm following you to a degree on your description (I can't draw either... does ASCII count?) but I have some reservations about your description.
What you have with LED is \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Except that it overlaps an unknown amount as you still haven't answered that and the spacing is still of question. This is far better than flouro, but on the other hand you have *gulp*
_______________ <--- Table
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
\/
I snipped out a bit of the middle but you see where it is going. That light doesn't scatter much and is coming from a much more directional bit than a flouro unit and we don't know what your directional is because you haven't give us much details on spacing, overlap or even angle of your LEDs.
The distance on a single point light is for coverage not to reduce scatter, it's to it the table with enough of the focused beam (that is the reason for the reflector and though in essence it's 360 it's not really 360 in the end since it's immediately bounced back up.) No, it's not perfect but there really isn't a perfect solution when it comes to using light to do such a task... even in the LED world. It's very possible that your LED unit is better if the beam is narrow enough and spaced properly. I've read on this page suggestions that your unit scans across with a strip of LEDs? Is this correct or is it a solid "wall" of LEDs that sit under the glass? Scanning doesn't reduce undercutting it actually would increase it as every bit of your exposure is now hit from multiple angles instead of just the bits that don't happen to reside on top of an LED... it does cut cost significantly and would be just fine put up against a flouro system as they aren't any better as far as undercutting.
If you had a focused single point LED system, I'd not be having this discussion with you as I do agree LEDs are WAY more economical. But lets face it... it's WAY more economical to run out into the sun with our screens to expose them... just not very practical and therefor people are willing to pay good money for a proper MH single point. My exposure unit is the most expensive piece of gear in my entire shop right now and I don't let go of money easily. One might think that would cause me to be entrenched in my idea of what a good exposure unit is... but I question all the time if I shouldn't have bought X or Y. I'm ready to swap that puppy out if I can find a better deal for a decent price as I know I can get more than what I paid for this exposure unit right now. No sweat off my back.
Right now, we just want more info and more math/science behind your unit. Send one to Pierre and let him test it out... that guy has exposure dialed in like a mad scientist. He will give it a VERY thorough and professional review and if it gets his seal of approval you would probably sell enough just from that endorsement to cover your shipping to and from him... hell if you were really confident in the unit you could give it to him and know that you will make way more than your money back on a positive endorsement. Here's a hint, he's won awards for his prints, people respect him. :)
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I bought a Baby Joe 2000 about 8 months ago and I have to say it is every thing this guy claims it to be. I’ve been in the business for about 12 years now and 8 of those years I was using a 5k metal halide unit with cost me a ton in electricity costs not to mention having to change to bulb every 18 or so months which cost about $275.00 each so I decided to do a little research on the forums and noticed that people were using UV fluorescent tubes to expose screens and decided to give that a try and in the beginning I thought I had the answer.but as time went on about a year I found it to not be very reliable some bulbs would not start or start half way through the exposure resulting in a ruined screen and a lot of wasted time and money. So I decided to do a little more research and came across this guy at LDTronix selling these LED Units and I gave him a call and he explained how it all worked and also offered to demo it for me being from the next state over I thought that was nice of him. So we set up an appointment and I was very impressed with the results enough to buy one! Although it looked like a basic table top unit nothing special on the outside, it shot perfect halftones extremely fast I mean in 10 seconds with no undercutting, I was previously shooting for about 3 to 6 or so minutes on my UV fluorescent system with I thought was fine but again not very reliable, I print every thing from 60 mesh athletic prints to 4 to 8 color Process using high mesh 305 s & 230s etc.. with perfect results every time. I believe he is totally on to something here. Again I only had the unit for about 8 months now so I cant say how it will do long term but I haven’t had change my exposure times at all yet, I don’t have any complaints yet it works great. I love using this unit.
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how fast is it compared to the 5k unit?
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again wish I could draw
The reflector on your single point does send light out in every direction.... simple test for you would be to cover the front half of your bulb and look at the light you get......the light is going off in every direction true or false...
Exact led placement.....Again it depends on many variables.
If you are asking how exactly My BABY J2K works (design specs)
I would consider that a bad idea, because I'll have 1000 people calling me a lair when their table is working poorly.
Fact is LEDs of this type any look the same when off, but when on they are not all created equal.. INFACT you can not even tell the color of light they will make when they are off.....
Some look great exactly like the ones used in the BABY JOE 2000, but we tested many many many LEDS looking for these BABYS LED's
sorry to be vague but I hate to give BAD information
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I bought a Baby Joe 2000 about 8 months ago and I have to say it is every thing this guy claims it to be. I’ve been in the business for about 12 years now and 8 of those years I was using a 5k metal halide unit with cost me a ton in electricity costs not to mention having to change to bulb every 18 or so months which cost about $275.00 each so I decided to do a little research on the forums and noticed that people were using UV fluorescent tubes to expose screens and decided to give that a try and in the beginning I thought I had the answer.but as time went on about a year I found it to not be very reliable some bulbs would not start or start half way through the exposure resulting in a ruined screen and a lot of wasted time and money. So I decided to do a little more research and came across this guy at LDTronix selling these LED Units and I gave him a call and he explained how it all worked and also offered to demo it for me being from the next state over I thought that was nice of him. So we set up an appointment and I was very impressed with the results enough to buy one! Although it looked like a basic table top unit nothing special on the outside, it shot perfect halftones extremely fast I mean in 10 seconds with no undercutting, I was previously shooting for about 3 to 6 or so minutes on my UV fluorescent system with I thought was fine but again not very reliable, I print every thing from 60 mesh athletic prints to 4 to 8 color Process using high mesh 305 s & 230s etc.. with perfect results every time. I believe he is totally on to something here. Again I only had the unit for about 8 months now so I cant say how it will do long term but I haven’t had change my exposure times at all yet, I don’t have any complaints yet it works great. I love using this unit.
This is very odd, you went from a 5k MH backwards to BL flours? I would think anyone in the biz long enough and doing some research would quickly figure out that BL fluorescents are a big step backwards from MH.
Sadly after reading the other site it is obvious that the seller has been guilty of creating aliases, not saying that he did this here but with out any way of qualifying who is giving a testimonial then who really knows?
I think the people here would be more convinced if you made some real world videos of your unit in operation, an unedited expose to resolve video on a high mesh count with serious details and half tones would surely be appreciated.
Also your site lists Atlantic city are you going to be demoing there?
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my 5k unit would expose at about 90 sec with a new bulb and after a few months it would it would go up to over 3 min for the same results
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again video is on the web site..
I wonder if we were in a desert, and you needed water would you drink my water or question it?
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if you think that saving time and money is going backwards then this unit is not for you
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amrcnscreen
thanks get back to work, sorry to ask you to spend this time. Truth I am glad you are now on the forum
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again video is on the web site..
I wonder if we were in a desert, and you needed water would you drink my water or question it?
What a ridiculous metaphor seriously.
We are talking about a piece of equipment that cost $$$$. A lot of shops do not have $$$$ lying around to risk with out some informative information first. Us printers are always a suspicious group first when it comes to new equipment that supposedly crushes the competition (as you put it) Realize this forums community is far and large with all flavors from the start ups to the absolute pros, yet no one knows of any of your units in the field especially none crushing the competition, so yes people here and frankly any screen printing forum will be weary.
My request for a video is not something hard is it? Surely you have units on hand since you created them and surely you have a demo (test) unit set up for testing, why is it hard to shoot a normal video and not link directly back to your promo vid?
You as the sales man of these units have to convince these guys here, they are a tough crowd but I guarantee you this crowd would advance you light years in market exposure if you convince them.
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Also I asked about Atlantic City, it is in my back yard and I am trying like hell to be able to attend this year and if I do I would love to see the unit in person. Even if I could not make it there will be quite a lot of forum members from just this forum attending and also I bet would like to see the unit. So are you going to be there?
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again video is on the web site..
I wonder if we were in a desert, and you needed water would you drink my water or question it?
actually, I would not just take some water without knowing where it came from. This has nothing to do with you or your unit, but when you present a game changer, you will have to back that up for ppl to switch.
I will gladly do a quick eval on your unit either here at the shop or in Atlantic City. You could drive over here one day and we could test the unit (we are in Cleveland). While most here know the type of work we do, for your benefit I'll mention that we win awards at every competition we enter (including the SGIA Golden Image) and further more, while not advertised under my avatar, I am one of the partners in the TSB. The result would be just my opinion, but my guess is that most here would consider it credible.
What say you? Interested?
pierre
p.s. I am very happy with the NuArc 3140 we have and am not looking to switch, so this is purely for the educational purposes (don't want somebody saying there is an ulterior motive here).
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First off, there are MH units, and then there are MH units. It is certainly possible that a switch to a specific fluorescent unit could be a step up. The reference to you, amrcnscreen, going backwards referred to just this. The normal progression we see is quartz halogen with a loose piece of glass and a hunk of foam, moving up to a fluorescent unit with compression lid, to a single point MH and a vacuum. There are some in-between options, but that's it for the most part.
Second, LDTRONIX, if it is true that you not only ran sales pitches in a forbidden zone, but also used aliases as endorsements, you have an uphill battle with all but those who agree that "all is fair in love, war, and turning a buck"
FYI, I am not in that camp.
I do understand that show booth rentals are quite high and that in itself greatly burdens a small operation like yours to really get the word out, but that comes with the territory.
You are, after all, competing with some known quantities with great reputations, and millions of quality screens under their belts (or blankets).
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This thread has not helped this unit. I have to say after reading just what was wrote today I am not even interested in entertaining this unit. I am still open to LED units. Why are you even trying to battle how good your unit is, just sell some and have the customer prove it. Its a little fishy. The fact that your guy that owns one said power savings is a big selling point? Kind of a joke. Even if I was a big shop doing 100 screens a day I would never look at my exposure unit as a place to save money on my electric bill. My 1K unit exposes Aquasol HV in 20 seconds with EOM of 8-12. All other emulsions in less than a minute. A 5K unit taking 90 seconds? Then going up to 3 mins after 3 months. What are you exposing blocks of emulsion. There is no credibility there. I am sorry amrcnscreen if you are real you have more issues then an exposure unit.
I am sorry LDTRONIX I wanted to help you but I have to be honest, nothing adds up here.
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American
We are part of the LDTronix fan club as well here at USATEES!
The unit works as LDTronix said.
I have been in the business for 25 years.
The things I love about this unit is it’s exposure quality, simplicity, and expected long life..
I was a part of the Beta testing for this product for over 6 months it works, I have seen no output loss so far.
I have used other name brand quarts units in the past, and I have no problem with the quality of the exposure I get from this machine.
I have had many problems in the past with other units, not anymore.
I only wished it was bigger…..
Yes LD Tronix did reach out to me to give my testamonial on this machine, I'm not trying to sell the machine, Just giving you my honest feedback
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Block 'em all.
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Now what... My Baby is cute......I always new it..
USATEES get back to work!
Thanks for your endorsement , please don't bother with that other forum.....
Some of their minions are coming here to now..
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Hold on guys, while we are a tough crowd, let's not be unreasonable and run someone out of here just because they aren't well versed in forum etiquete. You have made some claims that are bold, then get upset when we don't just believe you but surely you understand reputation and how that works in an online community and reality community right? There is a pretty good list of guys on this site that when they say something works or doesn't work, there isn't much debate about it, if any at all. That's because of reputation, you sir have absolutely none here so don't take it so personal when we don't run out and bow down to your feet and not ask some questions.
I appreciate the two guys signing up and giving their reviews, I'm sure we all have many more questions so let's not burn this bridge down without giving some new guys the benefit of the doubt, even if they might not deserve it, we all started somewhere.
Surely you understand why we can't take everything at face value that you say because none of us know you or your past. Honestly the video is terrible and gives us no evidence that the unit is all that so we do need to have more than some guys word we don't know and a bad video that doesn't show much. Don't take it personally. If you can't or don't want to answer questions and give some serious information on your product then you're not going to go far with this unit. This forum is made up of the most knowledgeable and generous members and if you can seriously convince us of this technology then 2013 will be one hell of a year for you. And if you think you can be successful without the help of an online forum then that's fine, but I'll bet you an exposure unit that if you had this forum behind you that the road ahead would be a lot easier.
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Now what... My Baby is cute......I always new it..
USATEES get back to work!
Thanks for your endorsement , please don't bother with that other forum.....
Some of their minions are coming here to now..
This is really sad. I hope this is "the one no one talks about" messing around. If this is really a guy trying to sell equipment that that they put their hard earned money and time into they are a brainless Jackass. You just told one of the best forums on the web for you to sell your unit that your a jackass. I feel sorry for you if this truly is a guy trying to sell his unit. Someone from the forum call and talk to the owner of this unit and make sure this is not "the one no one talks about" just messing around. I would hate this guy to be hurt by "the one no one talks about" and no one figured it out.
I ussually don't get in on this stuff but this has to stop people/businesses are getting hurt.
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Good post Alan and pretty much what I been trying to convey to him. But his last sentence in his last comment is not exactly going to get him and credibility around here.
Ldtronix you are not to far from me, any of these units with In an hour or two form me? I could be in NYC in 45 minutes if USATEES would allow me to check out their unit, that's assuming its the same USATEES.
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A few of you have responded while I was typing, but here's my 2 cents
Here are the problems, and they're on both sides.
1. We don't know a thing about the unit or its maker.
2. We want to see some actual facts and reviews.
3. No one here knows the fan boys responding (though we did ask for present owners and users)
4. Apparently LDTRONIX has lost a little credibility with past escapades, or present sideshow barker-like promotion.
5. The initial target market is known for interest in very basic and cost cutting equipment.
For me, the jury is still out. If a viable, competitive product, it will eventually come to a shop near you to possibly check out.
Hard to believe that someone here with a little interest isn't reasonably close to Florida or Brooklyn New York(that's Florida NY) or New Jersey where we know that there are units.
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I'm starting to see a fimilar pattern here, I hope the mods pick up on it to. Just saying.
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No one in their right mind would hurt their business by being a jackass on a forum, well I guess there is one person. This is not the real sales person for this unit. Some one call the number on the website and make sure.
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I'm starting to see a fimilar pattern here, I hope the mods pick up on it to. Just saying.
Yup, me to...
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Inkman.......
Do we all trust you on this forum.....no disrespect.......I really do not know......If so email me........
with your #
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I'm not usually on forums, and yes Ldtronix did reach out to me to give my honest feedback on the machine. Isn't that what this is about.
inkman yes I am USATEES and yes you are welcomed to come into my shop a view the exposure unit. I don't understand why so many people are bashing this guy if they never even seen the machine.
I always assumed forums where created to pass info that will help each other.
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Inkman.......
Do we all trust you on this forum.....no disrespect.......I really do not know......If so email me........
with your #
Sorry I am stepping off of this, I personally will not help you out as offered not when your answer to me is am I trustworthy? Is that your criteria for all customers?
And I know you are not he who shall not be named but boy you are starting to sound so much like him.
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Holy
inkman I really do not know ...
I am really sorry to have offended you......
I was asking the forum if they would except your word!
I was expressing my lack of knowledge to the player on the forum
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USATEES many members of this forum make a point to help other screen printers. We go out of our way. We also make sure that suppliers are not trying to screw us over. No one said that this unit didn't work or that its not as good as he claims. We would never do that to someone that is trying to help our industry. This is a case that he will not answer questions or even try to show the performance of the unit. No one will buy anything with out being proven it works. That is why there is such a thing as a test drive. I hope this thing does everything that it is said to do. It looks like a great unit and for the price ,affordable. I think that LDTRONIX has done himself alot of harm. I hope it all gets cleared up.
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I'm not usually on forums, and yes Ldtronix did reach out to me to give my honest feedback on the machine. Isn't that what this is about.
inkman yes I am USATEES and yes you are welcomed to come into my shop a view the exposure unit. I don't understand why so many people are bashing this guy if they never even seen the machine.
I always assumed forums where created to pass info that will help each other.
Cool maybe the next time I take the metro in I will get in touch, I am over in CT. Honestly I do not think anyone is bashing him, not in the way bashing is usually defined. People are just trying to get solid info from him since he is the inventor of the machine, he is a bit prickly and defensive not your usual behavior for a business man. Ad as already stated by Andy one of the owners he has a dubious past already even tho we all have to admit it takes very little to get Rodney to ban you on his site. My concern was their was accusations of him creating aliases to help promote his machine, us over here have a long history of dealing with someone famous for using aliases, hence why people will get pretty up set about so quickly.
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Let's look at IP's mods.
Physically moving light sounds about like the worst thing for undercutting.
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Let's look at IP's mods.
did already and the thread is still here. . .
pierre
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Pierre,
Can we talk tech?
If you have the time...
Call me please
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Ok I want to let everyone know that I just talked to LDTRONIX on the phone. His voice matched that from the video. I couldn't resist. I only called to make sure that he was who he was and not someone hurting his business. He is willing to prove that his unit works. I said that Pierre would be his best bet to prove it works. He is willing to do so. I think if Pierre has the time to test and prove it does high end half tones this unit will sell like crazy. At $2200 for a exposure unit that does auto frames and exposes in 10 to 15 seconds it will be a game changer.
I am just happy this is cleared up.
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I'd love to see the results, and I am glad that the ip's don't match. ;)
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I haven't been following this thread closely.. so maybe this has been discussed.
Anyway...
1) An led light source that is instant "ON" has a big advantage over most MH light sources which have restrike time.
2) The UV emission for an LED can be a fairly narrow band of wavelength.
3) It's possible to chose the desired emission range (see link below)
http://www.phoseon.com/technology/led-uv-wavelength.htm (http://www.phoseon.com/technology/led-uv-wavelength.htm)
The LED curing source I'd like to test is not very different in size from a MH bulb (20mm X 225mm), so I don't think scattered light would be a problem.
http://www.phoseon.com/products/FireLine.html (http://www.phoseon.com/products/FireLine.html)
Regarding he who shall not be discussed... "a pox on his house"
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I haven't been following this thread closely.. so maybe this has been discussed.
Anyway...
1) An led light source that is instant "ON" has a big advantage over most MH light sources which have restrike time.
2) The UV emission for an LED can be a fairly narrow band of wavelength.
3) It's possible to chose the desired emission range (see link below)
[url]http://www.phoseon.com/technology/led-uv-wavelength.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.phoseon.com/technology/led-uv-wavelength.htm[/url])
Regarding he who shall not be discussed... "a pox on his house"
Northland, as you may have guessed, those points have pretty much been covered. The sticking point for some now is the break from the traditional single point source, and its possible ramifications.
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At $2200 for a exposure unit that does auto frames and exposes in 10 to 15 seconds it will be a game changer.
No joke there, and that is not also including the seriously long bulb lives on them suckers.
So for $2200, auto frame size, 10 to 15 seconds, high detail, probably never need to replace any bulbs, low heat, lower electricity, that certainly would be a game changer.
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I haven't been following this thread closely.. so maybe this has been discussed.
Anyway...
1) An led light source that is instant "ON" has a big advantage over most MH light sources which have restrike time.
2) The UV emission for an LED can be a fairly narrow band of wavelength.
3) It's possible to chose the desired emission range (see link below)
[url]http://www.phoseon.com/technology/led-uv-wavelength.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.phoseon.com/technology/led-uv-wavelength.htm[/url])
Regarding he who shall not be discussed... "a pox on his house"
Northland, as you may have guessed, those points have pretty much been covered. The sticking point for some now is the break from the traditional single point source, and its possible ramifications.
The led array doesn't have to be like a mat (scattered)... it can be a window (20mm wide).
http://www.phoseon.com/products/FireLine.html (http://www.phoseon.com/products/FireLine.html)
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@LDTRONIX
Assuming this unit works the way you claim... Do you have any interest in distributors?
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I haven't been following this thread closely.. so maybe this has been discussed.
Anyway...
1) An led light source that is instant "ON" has a big advantage over most MH light sources which have restrike time.
2) The UV emission for an LED can be a fairly narrow band of wavelength.
3) It's possible to chose the desired emission range (see link below)
[url]http://www.phoseon.com/technology/led-uv-wavelength.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.phoseon.com/technology/led-uv-wavelength.htm[/url])
Regarding he who shall not be discussed... "a pox on his house"
Northland, as you may have guessed, those points have pretty much been covered. The sticking point for some now is the break from the traditional single point source, and its possible ramifications.
The led array doesn't have to be like a mat (scattered)... it can be a window (20mm wide).
[url]http://www.phoseon.com/products/FireLine.html[/url] ([url]http://www.phoseon.com/products/FireLine.html[/url])
That looks pretty neat, and they emit the correct NM for emulsion. It states they are scalable end to end so I would guess ou could array them side by side for the same effect. Wonder what those things run?
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Make one big enough for two frames at a time and if it can do one of our 110's with a 200 micron stencil in under a minute then I'll buy one...assuming it works like it's said to.
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If led exposure lights are anything light those on car headlights then those suckers are bright and could really toss out some uv, sorry I didn't read thru all the post I just read one that stated how do they work.
Darryl
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Alan, if it really does the trick, would be better than replacing that $600 bulb from time to time huh :P
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I can't wait until the LED flash and dryer for waterbase and plastisol is on the market. Now there is an area that can save some coin.
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So for $2200, auto frame size, 10 to 15 seconds, high detail, probably never need to replace any bulbs, low heat, lower electricity, that certainly would be a game changer.
As soon as performance was verified, I would buy one.
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Pierre,
Can we talk tech?
If you have the time...
Call me please
My daughter is having some major surgery on friday and will be in the hospital for a little bit. I can get in touch when the dust settles if you can wait a few weeks.
pierre
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pierre,
My thoughts are with you and your family, take your time.
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Alan, if it really does the trick, would be better than replacing that $600 bulb from time to time huh :P
Speaking of that, our light units are about 25-30 seconds right now...meaning I need to buy another bulb before things start getting crazy around here. Sad part is, our customers have all decided to stop paying us so that thing called cash flow is almost non-existent right now. Happens this time of year like clockwork though.
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alen you said
Make one big enough for two frames at a time and if it can do one of our 110's with a 200 micron stencil in under a minute
It is possible...... close to that now, just got to do it 1 at a time. 10-12 sec x2 screens= 20-24 sec total exposure time for both frames..
Splitting hairs... but it is extra work to do it twice...
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Vacuum draw down is 20 seconds right? So that's 40 seconds right there as well. 20 seconds if you can expose them 2 up.
I still would like some specs on the light we are outputting, the angle at least.
You want us to give you a mile but you won't even give us an inch.
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The normal progression we see is quartz halogen with a loose piece of glass and a hunk of foam, moving up to a fluorescent unit with compression lid, to a single point MH and a vacuum. There are some in-between options, but that's it for the most part.
You forgot carbon arc.
Judging from the google search I just did, the whole world would like to forget carbon arc. ;D
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I totally forgot about carbon arc.........That was a mess...
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They seriously used carbon arc to expose screens? Used to use them for spotlights, lots of light but almost a full time job keeping then going.
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I used it to erase eprom chips.
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The normal progression we see is quartz halogen with a loose piece of glass and a hunk of foam, moving up to a fluorescent unit with compression lid, to a single point MH and a vacuum. There are some in-between options, but that's it for the most part.
You forgot carbon arc.
Judging from the google search I just did, the whole world would like to forget carbon arc. ;D
Oh yeah, but that's a different context of the progression i mentioned. Even I have been around long enough to have used a carbon arc on indirect carbon tissue stencil material, but I was specifically talking about the steps we generally see discussed on forums as newbies evolve.
And, as stated, ldtronix started his PR campaign on a forum known to attract newbies.
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They seriously used carbon arc to expose screens? Used to use them for spotlights, lots of light but almost a full time job keeping then going.
Sometimes I forget how young some of you guys are (or conveniently forget how old I am)
Fact is, many of you guys have a lot on me!
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Updated info.
search for
LED Exposure unit first impressions
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or see here:
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,7229.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,7229.0.html)