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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: shellyky on October 23, 2012, 09:38:03 AM
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printing a giant filled in 15" white circle on black shirts tomorrow, what is my best course of action for this (imagine a converse all stars logo, very little red and blue text on top, mainly this white blob)...had to do this once before in the past and it was a nightmare! LOL......
Mesh Selections for:
UB white
HL white
Blue
Red
thanks, i always dread these giant white blobs due to underflashing and coming up wet on the next screen, too much open space on the screen, shirt sticks to the screen...etc
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Shelly.....you know I'm going to tell you to discharge the base (Providing shirts will work, and use a 140 mesh). A quick flash to steam it off and 160/180 mesh for top colors. Call me if you want to discuss or p-mail
843-554-3840x2260
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Lots of options, but I'd go with a 140 UB (we don't use 156, but it's pretty much the same neighborhood) 230 for the rest, 2 flashes, but I won't make an image wider than the flash unit, what's the point? It really shouldn't be a headache, unless you're trying to do something your equipment won't do. If the ink is curing but sticking, slow down until it cools, but I'm pretty sure you already know this.
Steve
Or, discharge the base of course as just mentioned.
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ok thats about what i was thinking, 158 and a 230 top. shouldnt stick if there isnt that much ink laid down and go slow (i have a quartz for the 1st flash but my 2nd one is just IR manual so it takes it longer to cook)....got it--thanks guys!
brandt has some samples of discharge stuff coming, i think switching to that will cause some easier printing for sure since 99% of everything we do is 5 colors on top a white UB on black shirts...
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With such a large image area, to get plastisol bright you have to deposit too much ink and the print will be uncomfortable to wear. I'd probably do a discharge underbase through a 135 or 150 S thread and then put plastisol white on top of it then do your top colors. That will cut the ink deposit in half or more and still get a bright white. Stencil thickness won't do much for you with such a big open area, so thread thickness will be important if you choose to go all plastisol. Too thin and you'll have to print, flash, print, flash, print, flash, etc., too thick and it will stop bullets once you're done.
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I did a 13 x 13 circle and did it white plastisol and yes it was thick, tried to get the customer let me knock out some of the white ink but they wanted a solid white print...felt like a piece of plastic, if I had discharge or knew how to use it back then that would have been my choice. Discharge is the way to go but it to has its own problems to deal with good luck Shell...oh you might can do a halftone of some of the white base if you printing a solid color over top.
Darryl
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Yes, discharge.
If not:
230 base
150-180 top
230+ colors
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Discharge samples are taking forever.
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Discharge samples are taking forever.
No need to wait for samples. Get CCI Dbase and some white and run with it.
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Discharge samples are taking forever.
No need to wait for samples. Get CCI Dbase and some white and run with it.
Where can I buy it online. I don't have time to play phone order with people.
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ryonet sells it but like all their stuff, they rebadge it and name it something that has their name in it somewhere. Their discharge products are CCI so you can be confident that it's a good ink. Should be a one day or two day ship for you. I think they have a large warehouse in northern Arkansas.
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Tonypep has listed his CCI rep in your neck of the woods. I email my various reps
with my orders all the time.
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http://www.ccidom.com/pages.php?pageid=30 (http://www.ccidom.com/pages.php?pageid=30)
There are suppliers in Chicago and Missouri that carry it according to their site. One of them is Nazdar.
Any clear discharge base will work well. We have tried several with good results.
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Discharge samples are taking forever.
No need to wait for samples. Get CCI Dbase and some white and run with it.
LOL, I was thinking the same thing....."just buy the damn stuff". Worth it to get started in the long run. Can always change later.
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ryonet sells it but like all their stuff, they rebadge it and name it something that has their name in it somewhere. Their discharge products are CCI so you can be confident that it's a good ink. Should be a one day or two day ship for you. I think they have a large warehouse in northern Arkansas.
They do. 3 around the nation I believe.
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i dont want to sound like an idiot LOL but can someone direct me to which specific product item #'s to buy on the ryonet site? I might as well be looking at a foreign language, it's all new to me.
I assume just white for starters and you guys recommend just using high mesh plastisol on the top? And I'll need a digital scale?
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Roger Jennings once suggested to me to underbase with a water base white and print a soft hand white plastisol on top. I have yet to try this method.
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I'm sure you're not an idiot Shelly. If I remember right you folks are in Tennessee. Which means your CCI rep should be Gary Fox 678-360-9673. He should point you in the right direction.
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I'm sure you're not an idiot Shelly. If I remember right you folks are in Tennessee. Which means your CCI rep should be Gary Fox 678-360-9673. He should point you in the right direction.
I just simply need a place to order it online, we don't have time to play phones.
Is there a place we can order the stuff online, what link? What all do we need. The 2 discharge people I have dealt with so far are obviously too busy to deal with me so Ill just throw money at it right or wrong at this point.
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Base, White, and Activator. For now. For online the Nazdar Source one may show it. They carry it for now but push the Magna. It all works.
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Base, White, and Activator. For now. For online the Nazdar Source one may show it. They carry it for now but push the Magna. It all works.
Thanks, checking now!
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Base, White, and Activator. For now. For online the Nazdar Source one may show it. They carry it for now but push the Magna. It all works.
Ya I dont see any CCI unless its a magic trick.
I feel like there must be some secret hand shake to get going on Discharge.
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If you want to send me a P-mail I'll get someone to call you.
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If you want to send me a P-mail I'll get someone to call you.
I don't do phones.
Very simple, where online can I buy this stuff. If I can't buy it online I will not buy it. In our life we do not have time for phones. For any reason. I recently financed our building, via email. Ive never even been in the bank. Someone can sell me some Discharge online. LOL
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Base, White, and Activator. For now. For online the Nazdar Source one may show it. They carry it for now but push the Magna. It all works.
This work Tony?
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Yes but they are private labeling it and marking it up accordingly.
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Yes but they are private labeling it and marking it up accordingly.
I don't need anything else but a gram scale then right?
Price doesn't matter to me.
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Gram scale is more important for colors. You can eyeball a 70% base 30% white and should be fine
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Gram scale is more important for colors. You can eyeball a 70% base 30% white and should be fine
Perfect, I am ordering then.
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Jeez dude. I hate phones too but damn. Make a call, get the right thing, maybe meet someone nice
that can help you out or tell you a a joke or something.
You'll want a scale for the activator.
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Forgot about that. My ink dept eyeballs this as well but they've been doing it for a very long time
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Jeez dude. I hate phones too but damn. Make a call, get the right thing, maybe meet someone nice
that can help you out or tell you a a joke or something.
You'll want a scale for the activator.
You just illustrated the exact reason I don't do phone calls. Next thing you know a 2 minute phone call is made into a 15 minute one x9498503843 times a day. Sorry but we do not have that type of time.
We can order all my supplies from online places in the time 1 typical phone call would take by the time jokes start, hows the weather, and "whats your address, whats your phone number, how do you spell your last name" Jesus get with the times!!!!
GLADLY pay way more to not do phones.
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One of my reps I met when he stopped by to chat. I usually hate when folks do that,
not using the man door, etc.
We talked about stuff, he pointed me in the direction of some better/less expensive
products for what we are doing, told some printing nerd jokes, etc.
Now I've got a guy that if I ever need anything or have a question on anything BAM one call
done.
What's Sam say? Call me?
FWIW I tried the ImageStar Discharge white on the rumor it was the CCI. If it was, it was
heavily watered down. I've found the super thin whites will change viscosity in the screen too much
as they evaporate.
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It was CCI.......not sure about the watering down
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Dam Brandt you would lost if your net went down...you might hate phones, but I bet you have a cell phone right.
Darryl
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Dam Brandt you would lost if your net went down...you might hate phones, but I bet you have a cell phone right.
Darryl
I dont use it, maybe 40 minutes a month talking to distant friends/family. That's it. I am far to busy for playing on the phones.
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One of my reps I met when he stopped by to chat. I usually hate when folks do that,
not using the man door, etc.
We talked about stuff, he pointed me in the direction of some better/less expensive
products for what we are doing, told some printing nerd jokes, etc.
Now I've got a guy that if I ever need anything or have a question on anything BAM one call
done.
What's Sam say? Call me?
FWIW I tried the ImageStar Discharge white on the rumor it was the CCI. If it was, it was
heavily watered down. I've found the super thin whites will change viscosity in the screen too much
as they evaporate.
Happy to shoot the crap with someone that stops by. Do it all of the time, those are where friend ships are really formed. When I need supplies I need a business to be there to sell it, if they can't do that with a online site in this day and age. Then I will not and can not take you seriously as a supplier. Period.
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Forgot about that. My ink dept eyeballs this as well but they've been doing it for a very long time
Whats the ratio on that?
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6% phone hater! ;)
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6% phone hater! ;)
Love you Tony!
Thanks for helping me Tony. That's what this site is suppose to be about. I would rather beat the info out of you guys so others may see this thread and get good info. Calling someone just gets info for me. Which seems some guard the info like its gold.
So thanks again Tony!
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28 hours and 14 post (including a screen capture) later you got less than I got from a 10 minute phone call from Gary Fox two days ago.
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28 hours and 14 post (including a screen capture) later you got less than I got from a 10 minute phone call from Gary Fox two days ago.
I have approximately 2-3 minutes of time in this conversation, so I saved 7-8 minutes and used the forum for its intended purpose, sharing knowledge. SCORE!
But we all KNEW you would get your 2 cents in......
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im sure it wont matter here, but i text my orders into my CCI rep Jaime Fernandez. takes less time than making a post here and i get a text a few min later telling me when he will bring it by and a total cost. But i did have to call him first to set that up. yeah that call took all of 4 minutes.
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Sharing knowledge so that someone looking for discharge in the southeast can read 28 posts to find out how to order the same marked up
products from silkscreeningsupplies (blech) that they could order from CCI direct by making one phone call? %6 activator is common
knowledge and likely included in the products documentation or at the very least available from the guy on the phone...
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just to add to the 6% standard zfs ratio, sericol reds only call for 4.5% and work great too.
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6% phone hater! ;)
Love you Tony!
Thanks for helping me Tony. That's what this site is suppose to be about. I would rather beat the info out of you guys so others may see this thread and get good info. Calling someone just gets info for me. Which seems some guard the info like its gold.
No problem. BTW I like the CCI WR25 and Hardener X for the stencil. Also don't use too much tape that can actually cause problems. I'll touch on that in April.
So thanks again Tony!
No problem. BTW I like the CCI WR25 and Hardener X for the stencil. Also don't use too much tape that can actually cause problems. I'll touch on that in April.
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Sorry, I didn't account for that beast of a computer you use and I forgot I read slow... it took me longer than 10 mins just to read the thread.
I'll go back into my corner now.
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Wow some of you really like beating dead horses, you guys are trying to make this thread about phone calls. Get over it and move on, if you like to work that way then by all means do so. We didn't ask your advice on that, and repeating it isn't going to change anything on our end. So WASTE more of your time if you like.
Interestingly the purpose of a forum to start with is to share knowledge. What some of you are suggesting and are so hung up on is actually restricts knowledge, that sounds like a really cool forum if we all just did it how you guys suggest and rather than share and seek knowledge among peers we all just "call a rep".
Which BTW, ebscreen, it wouldn't have taken nearly 28 posts (a lot of which are about phone calls?) if people where less about "call a rep" and more about "sharing knowledge". I am happy this thread helped illustrate that.
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Sorry, I didn't account for that beast of a computer you use and I forgot I read slow... it took me longer than 10 mins just to read the thread.
I'll go back into my corner now.
Another shot by Gilligan. It sure didn't take you long to start in again. Not that I am shocked or anything.
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6% phone hater! ;)
Love you Tony!
Thanks for helping me Tony. That's what this site is suppose to be about. I would rather beat the info out of you guys so others may see this thread and get good info. Calling someone just gets info for me. Which seems some guard the info like its gold.
No problem. BTW I like the CCI WR25 and Hardener X for the stencil. Also don't use too much tape that can actually cause problems. I'll touch on that in April.
So thanks again Tony!
No problem. BTW I like the CCI WR25 and Hardener X for the stencil. Also don't use too much tape that can actually cause problems. I'll touch on that in April.
I can probably get away with just regular emulsion for short testing right? At least I think I read that somewhere?
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6% phone hater! ;)
Love you Tony!
Thanks for helping me Tony. That's what this site is suppose to be about. I would rather beat the info out of you guys so others may see this thread and get good info. Calling someone just gets info for me. Which seems some guard the info like its gold.
No problem. BTW I like the CCI WR25 and Hardener X for the stencil. Also don't use too much tape that can actually cause problems. I'll touch on that in April.
So thanks again Tony!
No problem. BTW I like the CCI WR25 and Hardener X for the stencil. Also don't use too much tape that can actually cause problems. I'll touch on that in April.
I can probably get away with just regular emulsion for short testing right? At least I think I read that somewhere?
Just get a bottle of hardener with your order, that way you can use your regular emulsion, thats what we do for our solvent sign prints, we dont do any over 50 so regular emulsion with post hardened once or twice and they work fine.
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LOL... this is hilarious.
Why not search it? Don't want to waste the time, that's right... but it's ok to waste someone like Tony's time to ask a question that you are pretty sure the answer exist already.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry... I was going to go back and sit in my corner... I just happened to pass by the table on the way to the bathroom and couldn't help myself... again. I'm sorry.
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6% phone hater! ;)
Love you Tony!
Thanks for helping me Tony. That's what this site is suppose to be about. I would rather beat the info out of you guys so others may see this thread and get good info. Calling someone just gets info for me. Which seems some guard the info like its gold.
No problem. BTW I like the CCI WR25 and Hardener X for the stencil. Also don't use too much tape that can actually cause problems. I'll touch on that in April.
So thanks again Tony!
No problem. BTW I like the CCI WR25 and Hardener X for the stencil. Also don't use too much tape that can actually cause problems. I'll touch on that in April.
I can probably get away with just regular emulsion for short testing right? At least I think I read that somewhere?
Just get a bottle of hardener with your order, that way you can use your regular emulsion, thats what we do for our solvent sign prints, we dont do any over 50 so regular emulsion with post hardened once or twice and they work fine.
Thanks, will do.
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LOL... this is hilarious.
Why not search it? Don't want to waste the time, that's right... but it's ok to waste someone like Tony's time to ask a question that you are pretty sure the answer exist already.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry... I was going to go back and sit in my corner... I just happened to pass by the table on the way to the bathroom and couldn't help myself... again. I'm sorry.
Of course you couldn't help yourself, you freaking LOVE drama!
BTW I didn't create this thread, you know that right? In fact this thread had questions that really didn't relate to discharge at all since we do not do any of that yet. But since some keep pounding at us to try it, we say why not, so why would I go search for info about it when we are being told to do it in a thread and if people are so passionate about pounding people to try it maybe they should offer up some info or even a link to info about how to do so.
If I tell you to do something and you have never done it I would probably offer some info on how if I knew how. Like knocking a hole in a wall to put a good machine in your poorly chosen business space. But hey we all do things differently now don't we.
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Wow some of you really like beating dead horses, you guys are trying to make this thread about phone calls. Get over it and move on, if you like to work that way then by all means do so. We didn't ask your advice on that, and repeating it isn't going to change anything on our end. So WASTE more of your time if you like.
Interestingly the purpose of a forum to start with is to share knowledge. What some of you are suggesting and are so hung up on is actually restricts knowledge, that sounds like a really cool forum if we all just did it how you guys suggest and rather than share and seek knowledge among peers we all just "call a rep".
Which BTW, ebscreen, it wouldn't have taken nearly 28 posts (a lot of which are about phone calls?) if people where less about "call a rep" and more about "sharing knowledge". I am happy this thread helped illustrate that.
Brandt you are getting knowledge shared with you. If you choose to throw thousands upon thousands of dollars away that is your choice. But when people are trying to share information that will save you a ton of money over the year there is no need to throw it back in their face. If you want to grow efficiently you have to have the mentality af saving money in a production environment. You cannot look at it as and artist, graphic guy, web guy, salesman, receptionist, or whatever other hats you wear in your business. You have to look at it from a production managers point of view. I bet with the money you would save by dealing direct it would be enough to pay a receptionist to handle all the ordering and answering emails that bog you down so badly. That would leave you more time to do art, answer emails, and keep growing your business.
Like I said in our PM's the 5 minute phone call would have gotten you what you wanted in less time than it took to answer the PM's and post on this forum. You would save money on top of that and still have some time leftover to share what you learned with the rest of the people that are not experienced in this.
Again not trying to beat a dead horse just help out someone that gave me some useful information about embroidery machines make more money.
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Brandt you are getting knowledge shared with you.
After pages of people crying about phones.
If you choose to throw thousands upon thousands of dollars away that is your choice. But when people are trying to share information that will save you a ton of money over the year there is no need to throw it back in their face.
We didn't ask you or anyone here about how to save thousands or for them to concern themselves with what I spend or how I spend it. I will worry about that. There is more than one way to skin a cat. You save money by playing on the phone, I do 2 sets of business cards while some chat about the weather and the latest widget they are selling at the supplier. It's an example but you get my point. I have asked in the past about where to get this stuff, I went YOU guys route and these guys dropped the ball until today (got 2 emails back today about samples finally.) But no matter, its way past when I wanted to be trying this stuff so thus I move it along and BUY.
If you want to grow efficiently you have to have the mentality af saving money in a production environment.
Absolutely, however this is just to test out, ill worry about saving money on it when/if I start using it regularly. Couldn't careless what it costs me right now. I am up over 50% this year, I don't need any advice on growing my business or how to control my costs. I asked where to buy a product online. If someone didn't have an answer, then move on. She was VERY clear in the request. Just because you don't operate like that doesn't mean it can't be done.
You cannot look at it as and artist, graphic guy, web guy, salesman, receptionist, or whatever other hats you wear in your business. You have to look at it from a production managers point of view. I bet with the money you would save by dealing direct it would be enough to pay a receptionist to handle all the ordering and answering emails that bog you down so badly. That would leave you more time to do art, answer emails, and keep growing your business.
We have the money to hire more people if we like, we run a tight ship, just because I throw some money at something once and awhile to get it DONE doesn't have dick to do with day to day costs. This isn't a day to day cost yet, so I am not concerned with what it costs me to try it out. How in the frack did this turn into you worrying so much about my businesses costs? Hell man I could use some more write offs, I do not care about the cost on this stuff to try it out. Why are YOU caring so much. Its my money.
Like I said in our PM's the 5 minute phone call would have gotten you what you wanted in less time than it took to answer the PM's and post on this forum.
I disagree, I type/read pretty freaking fast and I am ALREADY at a computer all day. Again why are you so concerned about it? I am concerned with the amount of time you are wasting on this at this point. I am not running a business that is having trouble. We have plenty of extra capital around here. If I need to spend $200 on something to try, not a issue. Hell not even on my radar.
You would save money on top of that and still have some time leftover to share what you learned with the rest of the people that are not experienced in this.
Actually if someone would have just answered her question from go we would have all saved a lot of time/money. Imagine that. I know this, you worrying about me saving money is ridiculous. I am not worried about it, so why are you.
Again not trying to beat a dead horse just help out someone that gave me some useful information about embroidery machines make more money.
I helped you out and now you are not at all being helpful to me, no offense. I was VERY clear in PM as well. I guess I wasn't blunt enough for you and you decided you'd dig some more. You are being the oppisite of helpful.
In the time you spent playing "let's run Brandt's business" posts/pms you could have typed out what I need to buy from Ryonetts site (requested page 2 first post by Shelly), and that would have been very helpful. Whats the moral of this story? You can get help from those that you have helped but only if you do it their way.
Thanks dude, but no thanks.
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have typed out what I need to buy from Ryonetts site (requested page 2 first post by Shelly), and that would have been very helpful.
Thanks dude, but no thanks.
To which TonyP (possibly only person on here that does know everything) replied with the best way to order said materials.
To which you replied rudely.
You can either actually know everything and be a dick or you can ask like the rest of us but you can't do both.
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have typed out what I need to buy from Ryonetts site (requested page 2 first post by Shelly), and that would have been very helpful.
Thanks dude, but no thanks.
To which TonyP (possibly only person on here that does know everything) replied with the best way to order said materials.
To which you replied rudely.
You can either actually know everything and be a dick or you can ask like the rest of us but you can't do both.
Has nothing to do with "knowing everything". But I do know our request had nothing to do with what some of you felt was so important to include.
Guess you missed me thanking him, here is his actual first post and my first reply:
Base, White, and Activator. For now. For online the Nazdar Source one may show it. They carry it for now but push the Magna. It all works.
Thanks, checking now!
From there I was unable to find that stuff on Nazdars site so yes I then replied:
Ya I dont see any CCI unless its a magic trick.
I feel like there must be some secret hand shake to get going on Discharge.
I am sorry if you feel that is rude. I feel it's just "a matter of fact" type post. BTW I thanked him even again like a page or two later, but whos counting right?
From there people (after I already said I didn't care what it costs, and that I only wanted to buy it online) went on to tell me I am paying too much and I could do it so much better on the phone. Neither I asked for advice on.
Our request was actually very simple. Where can we buy it online, what all do we need. If you didn't want to help that way I 100% understand that, so why post at all? Seems so simple.
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I'm sure you're not an idiot Shelly. If I remember right you folks are in Tennessee. Which means your CCI rep should be Gary Fox 678-360-9673. He should point you in the right direction.
I just simply need a place to order it online, we don't have time to play phones.
Is there a place we can order the stuff online, what link? What all do we need. The 2 discharge people I have dealt with so far are obviously too busy to deal with me so Ill just throw money at it right or wrong at this point.
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At some point you must wonder why people like myself and a few others take offense to some
of your actions on here?
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goodness...dont look at me, I didnt pee in his cheerios!
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Wow...
Well, I still think a discharge base and plastisol on top. I still haven't had much luck with underbasing with discharge white, even based down to a 80% base and 20% white, but I've only fooled with it one other time after the initial failure.
As for the rest, hell, nevermind, sometimes it's just best to move on without putting an opinion down.
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At some point you must wonder why people like myself and a few others take offense to some
of your actions on here?
Oh well. But I must ask, why get involved in the thread to start with if that is the case?
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Wow...
Well, I still think a discharge base and plastisol on top. I still haven't had much luck with underbasing with discharge white, even based down to a 80% base and 20% white, but I've only fooled with it one other time after the initial failure.
As for the rest, hell, nevermind, sometimes it's just best to move on without putting an opinion down.
Thanks for the info.
I agree :)
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Oh well. But I must ask, why get involved in the thread to start with if that is the case?
Because you asked for information.
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As for the rest, hell, nevermind, sometimes it's just best to move on without putting an opinion down.
I agree :)
if you agreed, then you wouldn't find it necessary to respond to every answer telling them why their answer doesnt apply to you lol
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Oh well. But I must ask, why get involved in the thread to start with if that is the case?
Because you asked for information.
If you know I wont do phones, and I am clear about it, how can you be offended that I wont do phones?
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As for the rest, hell, nevermind, sometimes it's just best to move on without putting an opinion down.
I agree :)
if you agreed, then you wouldn't find it necessary to respond to every answer telling them why their answer doesnt apply to you lol
But then Gilligan wouldn't go into orbit as I get the last word. :D
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As for the rest, hell, nevermind, sometimes it's just best to move on without putting an opinion down.
No fair Shelly... I can't just sit in the corner and not be expected to spit out my drink all over the room when you come in here and do that. :P
Hope you put in some ear plugs before you hit "Post". ;)
I agree :)
if you agreed, then you wouldn't find it necessary to respond to every answer telling them why their answer doesnt apply to you lol
No fair Shelly... I can't just sit in the corner and not be expected to spit out my drink all over the room when you come in here and do that. :P
Hope you put in some ear plugs before you hit "Post". ;)
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(http://fitnessgurunyc.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/landscape-design-background-zen-garden-kyushu-japan-e-chan.jpg)
Serenity Now.
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This is freakin funny
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([url]http://fitnessgurunyc.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/landscape-design-background-zen-garden-kyushu-japan-e-chan.jpg[/url])
Serenity Now.
Don't worry sweet cheeks, the over priced, overnight-ed, discharge stuff is en-route! LOL
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I can probably get away with just regular emulsion for short testing right? At least I think I read that somewhere?
[/quote]
I have been doing testing using the regular emulsion. Ulano Orange will stand about 40 prints and the Satti PV will last at least 50. Cracking open the WR-25 tomorrow morning to give it a try.
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You can depending on the emulsion. If it has diazo in it then it will have a little water resistance to get away with it. You will know pretty quickly if it wont hold up. It will get tacky pretty quick on the back side.
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Thank you both.
Honestly ill print a couple of shirts, just to see how it does. Then proceed playing for real later.
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Funny as hell, thick does this apply to anyone here LOL
Darryl
Ps brandt you'll need to print on different colors (some colors don't discharge as good) and discharge work better on 100% even though I think Tony got away with some 50/50
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The CCI D white has a weird consistency you will find. I use it but like to mix my standard white plastisol with the discharge base when using it as an under base through a 230. Now that we have been doing discharge I am kicking myself for not doing it sooner. Clean up is a breeze. Listen to Tony and do not tape up the bottom of that screen. The emulsion really needs to breath. I found that the hard way! We do use hardner x also.
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Funny as hell, thick does this apply to anyone here LOL
Darryl
Ps brandt you'll need to print on different colors (some colors don't discharge as good) and discharge work better on 100% even though I think Tony got away with some 50/50
Thanks for info, most everything we do is on 100%. Mostly black.
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The CCI D white has a weird consistency you will find. I use it but like to mix my standard white plastisol with the discharge base when using it as an under base through a 230. Now that we have been doing discharge I am kicking myself for not doing it sooner. Clean up is a breeze. Listen to Tony and do not tape up the bottom of that screen. The emulsion really needs to breath. I found that the hard way! We do use hardner x also.
So you are using your white WITH or IN PLACE of the CCI White? Sorry for the dumb question.
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Discharge chart from Gildan. Thought this may help... I dont mind sharing any info I may have although it may not be much but here you go anyway.
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Discharge chart from Gildan. Thought this may help... I dont mind sharing any info I may have although it may not be much but here you go anyway.
Thanks!
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Hey Brandt whats your phone number? I want to call you, I have a feeling your a mute or is it you have a girls voice. LOL. That's the only answer to why your so against talking on the phone.
I have to agree with you on trying to work around dealing on the phone. Its much faster to just punch in orders and a credit card then try to get your sales guy on the phone. I also think dealing with a sales rep is worth the time. You get inside information that can really help your company get ahead of competitors.
As far as waterbase let me say this. Its another system to learn. It has its advantages and some disadvantages just like everything.
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I use the straight white for my all white prints. When using it as an under base I have been mixing 50/50 standard plastisol white and discharge base. It just makes a much smoother ink for us.
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Never heard of anyone mixing water base and plastisol together. Seems like oil and water.
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Hey Brandt whats your phone number? I want to call you, I have a feeling your a mute or is it you have a girls voice. LOL. That's the only answer to why your so against talking on the phone.
I have to agree with you on trying to work around dealing on the phone. Its much faster to just punch in orders and a credit card then try to get your sales guy on the phone. I also think dealing with a sales rep is worth the time. You get inside information that can really help your company get ahead of competitors.
As far as waterbase let me say this. Its another system to learn. It has its advantages and some disadvantages just like everything.
I hear ya. The problem with me is I am a talker just like everyone else that is passionate about this type of work so when they start talking so do I. Next thing you know its not a 3 minute call, its a 1hr call and I just can't do that. Add that time up over a year. I bet its staggering. I know because I have spoken with some of you on here. haha.
I can't wait to mess up some shirts, I mean learn discharge.
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I use the straight white for my all white prints. When using it as an under base I have been mixing 50/50 standard plastisol white and discharge base. It just makes a much smoother ink for us.
Ok, ill keep that in mind as we try some stuff. We know nothing really so not scared to try stuff.
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I use the straight white for my all white prints. When using it as an under base I have been mixing 50/50 standard plastisol white and discharge base. It just makes a much smoother ink for us.
If this is possible why is there Plasticharge? I figured the waterbase and plastisol would not mix, I guess I am wrong.
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Yeah, never heard of mixing plastisol and waterbased. I would think it'd be like oil and water. Apparently the proof
is in the pudding though!
This:
(http://www.eastbayscreenprinting.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/aquatech.jpg)
Is waterbased discharge base mixed with just a little waterbased white and plastisol on top.
No multiple flashes or going around a million times. All wet on wet with a short flash after
the discharge to keep it from creeping around.
Using discharge white in one screen as the underbase and highlite would be ideal, but we've
only been able to pull it off once or twice, and usually only with one plastisol color on top.
Discharge white is a pretty "sticky" product.
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The disharge base that was shown in his screen shot is the plasticharge base mix. I use my regular plastisols and mix it 50/50. If you are doing light color tees you can then run it as a direct waterbase ink or if doing darks you mix 5% activator in and run it as a discharge. I run mine at 90-120 seconds in the dryer with the air on.
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im sure it wont matter here, but i text my orders into my CCI rep Jaime Fernandez. takes less time than making a post here and i get a text a few min later telling me when he will bring it by and a total cost. But i did have to call him first to set that up. yeah that call took all of 4 minutes.
Yeah and I emailed my orders to our CCI contact and he deleted the email and still has not replied to my new email. So one week after trying to place an order we are not even close to getting a price of them. Will take my business somewhere else.
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Here is 50/50 light gray and discharge base.... with a hint of black plastisol.
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Here is the link... And I think a video of it....
http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/CCRYOCHARGEQ (http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/CCRYOCHARGEQ)
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Yeah, never heard of mixing plastisol and waterbased. I would think it'd be like oil and water. Apparently the proof
is in the pudding though!
This:
([url]http://www.eastbayscreenprinting.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/aquatech.jpg[/url])
Is waterbased discharge base mixed with just a little waterbased white and plastisol on top.
No multiple flashes or going around a million times. All wet on wet with a short flash after
the discharge to keep it from creeping around.
Using discharge white in one screen as the underbase and highlite would be ideal, but we've
only been able to pull it off once or twice, and usually only with one plastisol color on top.
Discharge white is a pretty "sticky" product.
I just did this today. It was 80 CCI base /20 CCI D-white /6 CCI activator underbase with 5 colors on top one being white. I started out with no flash. It took a while to build up the wet on wet so. I turned the flash on to see if that would help get the colors flowing. I didn't think it was going to work. They ended up turning out great after about 8 - 12 test prints. I left the flash on too long and got discharge underbase build up on the first and second top color screen. It didn't effect the print but if I was printing a few hundred more it would have.
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im sure it wont matter here, but i text my orders into my CCI rep Jaime Fernandez. takes less time than making a post here and i get a text a few min later telling me when he will bring it by and a total cost. But i did have to call him first to set that up. yeah that call took all of 4 minutes.
Yeah and I emailed my orders to our CCI contact and he deleted the email and still has not replied to my new email. So one week after trying to place an order we are not even close to getting a price of them. Will take my business somewhere else.
thats too bad, ill make sure to mention your issue to my guy, even though he has nothing to do with it, im sure it will get passed on. CCI is one of our best suppliers, if they sold more supplies id order more from them based on the service i get, could not be happier here.
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Here is the link... And I think a video of it....
[url]http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/CCRYOCHARGEQ[/url] ([url]http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/CCRYOCHARGEQ[/url])
That is CCI's P-charge (same as unions plasticharge). I have some here. I was going to do some testing with it this week but haven't yet.
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Yes! The D-White is great for just white prints but I find mising the plasticharge base with my white plastisol prints way better when laying things on top of it. Not nearly as sticky.
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Yes! The D-White is great for just white prints but I find mising the plasticharge base with my white plastisol prints way better when laying things on top of it. Not nearly as sticky.
I was going to try that. Did you print it wet on wet or did you flash the underbase?
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I usually do wet on wet. I do flash the UB very quickly at times but really the base is so nice and smooth and really works into the fabric so you do not pick a lot of it up on the screen. The D-White picks up a little more.
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Well, just got our Base, White, and activator. Tried White/activator just straight to a shirt. Cracks, has heavier hand than plastisol, and looks meh. Clearly I had higher expectations or did something wrong.
Next time we will try base + white I guess.
We will be printing this job regular looks like.
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What mesh were you using for the straight D White? I use it all the time usually double passing through a 156 with perfect results..... The trick is to really push it into the material and no lay it on top. It does look like it is thick and will crack but one wash and it is smooth as silk!
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What mesh were you using for the straight D White? I use it all the time usually double passing through a 156 with perfect results..... The trick is to really push it into the material and no lay it on top. It does look like it is thick and will crack but one wash and it is smooth as silk!
I didn't look, Shelly probably remembers and will post it.
It was heavy hand, cracked, and looked just ok. Double passed it, even tried 2-3-4 passes just playing around. Pretty good pressure as well.
I wasn't impressed, but its possible we didn't do something correct but I don't see what.
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It does crack because of the pigment left on top. One wash and that pigment goes away leaving a nice smooth print.
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Actually it is not really cracking, its the weave of the shirt seperating
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When you mix the base with regular white plastisol I feel it looks and prints much better..... But once washed they feel and look about the same. I hope that makes sense. I just like the base mix for under basing things.
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When you mix the base with regular white plastisol I feel it looks and prints much better..... But once washed they feel and look about the same. I hope that makes sense. I just like the base mix for under basing things.
I think we should clarify that when referring to mixing base with plastisol you are referring to the P-CHARGE product.
Don't want to send folks mixing actual waterbase and plastisol.
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PS that picture of the Ryocharge or whatever after one wash looks like kaka. Assuming it was to be the same color
as the print in the video.
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PS that picture of the Ryocharge or whatever after one wash looks like kaka. Assuming it was to be the same color
as the print in the video.
Thats the base only right?
We didn't use the base, we did white discharge. We have both though, we need to try either basing it down like Tony suggested.
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No, Ryocharge is the CCI Plasticharge (waterbased/plastisol hybrid) relabeled.
I never liked the plasticharge stuff we tried. Colors weren't vibrant, matching was even worse
than straight discharge and the NF stuff stank something fierce.
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No, Ryocharge is the CCI Plasticharge (waterbased/plastisol hybrid) relabeled.
I never liked the plasticharge stuff we tried. Colors weren't vibrant, matching was even worse
than straight discharge and the NF stuff stank something fierce.
Here is what we bought. No idea if this is "Ryocharge" or not. I was yes told it is relabeled CCI. Most everyone seemed to recommend CCI.
(http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5317.0;attach=4838;image)
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I think you should get someone to send you a sample of what the white looks like printed so you have a basis of comparison. Myself I am also somewhat unimpressed with the print straight out the dryer. It is also not quite as bright as plastisol but it is close.
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I think you should get someone to send you a sample of what the white looks like printed so you have a basis of comparison. Myself I am also somewhat unimpressed with the print straight out the dryer. It is also not quite as bright as plastisol but it is close.
We have some printed samples from other vendors, so we have a idea what it should look like. Brand I am sure varies but its not close, so as I said I am certain Tony's suggest is probably better to go with. We will do that soon as we have some free time. Unfortunately we had to run todays job plastisol. It wasn't too bad in any case.
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Oh man when he first posted that screen shop I thought he had the ryocharg. I see it is the standard base. Funny thing is we have a gallon of the base o I the shelf unopened. I might have to order some pigments now!
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Oh man when he first posted that screen shop I thought he had the ryocharg. I see it is the standard base. Funny thing is we have a gallon of the base o I the shelf unopened. I might have to order some pigments now!
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? (Do I have the right or wrong stuff?)
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I have 2 or 3 gallons of CCI D-Base I would be willing to let go if someone needs it. I will think of a price. If anyone needs some pm me.
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We accidenrly ordered this gallon thinking it was p charge.
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What you have should work fine. If it is in fact relabeled CCI. I dont use anything from Ryonet so I cant compare it to the CCI we have here. The discharge base is what you are after with a small percentage of white to brighten it up if needed.
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im so confused. LOL
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Yes what you have ordered from Ryonet is CCI waterbased discharge in clear base and white. Don't mix plastisol with this system.
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im so confused. LOL
Clear as mud. LOL.
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Indie not help things. I could have sworn I was seeing the Roy charge base on that first post so I got it all mixed up. I take it with the regular discharge base, like you bought, that you need a pigment set to mix with that. Holy crap there are too many choices out there!!!
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Discharge White is a standalone white.
Discharge Base is typically mixed with waterbased pigments to create discharge colors. Can also be used straight or mixed (80 base/20 discharge) white to create an underbase ink, which is typically overprinted with standard plastisols.
PlastiCharge base is mixed with plastisol inks to make a hybrid system.
All of these require activator in amounts of %3-%6 (yes you can go higher) to work.
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Discharge White is a standalone white.
Discharge Base is typically mixed with waterbased pigments to create discharge colors. Can also be used straight or mixed (80 base/20 discharge) white to create an underbase ink, which is typically overprinted with standard plastisols.
PlastiCharge base is mixed with plastisol inks to make a hybrid system.
All of these require activator in amounts of %3-%6 (yes you can go higher) to work.
Bonus points for most straight forward post yet.
But yes that is how I "thought" I was understanding it. I did however feel like the Discharge white would look better. Again that's probably my ignorance about it or doing something wrong.
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I think Ineed to ditch this plasticharge idea and just call the sericol rep and by the ready to use stuff
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I think Ineed to ditch this plasticharge idea and just call the sericol rep and by the ready to use stuff
You will kick yourself in the nuts for not doing it sooner. It is as easy as it gets......... ;)
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yeah with the discharge white, to print white, i mix about 60% white/40% base. the extra base helps to bump the discharging of the dye and in turn makes the white brighter, imo anyway. seems backwards compared to plastisol, but thats what works for me. and yes, the sericol rfu inks are awesome as well.
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Discharge White is a standalone white.
Discharge Base is typically mixed with waterbased pigments to create discharge colors. Can also be used straight or mixed (80 base/20 discharge) white to create an underbase ink, which is typically overprinted with standard plastisols.
PlastiCharge base is mixed with plastisol inks to make a hybrid system.
All of these require activator in amounts of %3-%6 (yes you can go higher) to work.
2 things:
(1) serial vs cci in colors: sericol is straight out of the bucket the color it will be whereas cci you can get pigments to mix in with cci base in order to achieve whatever color you want. Does cci have pigments - for some reason I vaguely recalling them "working on it" a few months ago or am I confusing that with something else. So am I wrong in thinking that -- assuming cci has the pigments --while it's simpler to go with sericol since it's out of the bucket the color it is, it would be (a) a lot more expensive to stock a bunch of different sericol colors than just having cci base with small amounts of different pigments to make whatever color you want to turn the base into? And (b) therefore making cci more versatile?
(2) This cracking issue of printing plastisol over discharge white - is it noticeable immediately out of the dryer or only after the garment is washed? I take it with the 70base/30 discharge white that has been suggested for an underbase to put plastisol prints on top, that would not be enough discharge white to cause the cracking issue? Anyone know at what ratio you are pushing the envelope, encroaching on the edge of having the cracking issue when mixing white and base? Obviously if some of the base/DC white mix is showing in the design you'd want to make it as white as possible (presuming it's supposed to be white) but also balance it to where the plastisol top prints won't be having this cracking issue.
Thanks.
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the CCI mixing pigments are now available, just got mine last week. they were working on it for a while, but should be available to all now.
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the CCI mixing pigments are now available, just got mine last week. they were working on it for a while, but should be available to all now.
Yeah you just have to be lucky enough for them to reply to an email. Waiting now almost 10 days for quotes and infos and the excuse they gave me is that they are on the road right now and of course the Vagas trade show made it as well impossible to reply to emails. They are either under staffed or badly organized at CCI. Hopefully their products live up to the hype.
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At SGIA Vegas last week, CCI had all the pigments and 1 gallon of base for $80 bucks.
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At SGIA Vegas last week, CCI had all the pigments and 1 gallon of base for $80 bucks.
Would you know if that sets includes as well some fluorescent pigments?
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At SGIA Vegas last week, CCI had all the pigments and 1 gallon of base for $80 bucks.
Would you know if that sets includes as well some fluorescent pigments?
They told me it included every color in the mustard bottle and a gallon of base.
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By no means am I an expert or can even compare to some people here but just a few observations we have made over the past two months dabbling in discharge and water base. Some might be obvious or redundant.
Results on the manual can be completely different then on the auto, found I could produce a much better print with the auto.
The print looks like crap before it is flashed and or run through the dryer. The first few times I ran the D-White it appeared not to have good coverage, the appearance of laying a coat of white plastisol through a high mesh on a dark garment. Out of habit I would print-flash-print the discharge causing excessive build up of the pigment and a rough hand. No need just get it down on the garment and go.
The print feels completely different after wash and dry.
Changes everything as far as we are concerned. 90% of the work we do other then poly jerseys and wicking is 100% cotton, simply do not offer blends to customers. Prefect to take advantage of the discharge and wb.
Testing we were able to print the D-Base, flash and D-White on garments that were not recommended or a "C" rating for discharge as per the Gildan chart with good results.
IMO need winged flood bars or ink traps to keep the ink over the stencil.
I had to adjust the squeegee angle from almost vertical to a steep angle to get the discharge to lay down nice.
You can run it with normal emulsion for very short or test runs. It also is the greatest emulsion remover ever.
More squeegee pressure is needed to get the stuff into the fibers.
The D-White is not as bright as a good plastisol print but still looks great plus the benefit of a soft hand.
It can be cut with water to allow it to saturate into the fibers deeper and still get desired results.
Clean up is easy.
Tried the Magna Plasticharge and was not impressed with the results. We will be trying it again with different ratios of plastisol.
We have printed some colors using the CCI pigment system. Easy to mix, easy to use. Did a yellow and white imprint left chest on a black shirt. Fire and police dept logos with small print and fine lines. The job was two orders, first was done in August with plastisol, pia to reg with the white ub and yellow top. Did the second batch last week with the D-White and WB mixed yellow. It came out perfect. No print flash print, no trying to reg the yellow to the under base, just a butt reg between the yellow and white.
The pigment kit we got was nine bottles of pigment, D-Base and D-White.
Still have lots to learn and looking forward to it.
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just to add here B, you will want to order extra blanks because the spoilage rate is a bit higher, there is no spot gun to get it out -unless you catch it before it goes down the tunnel. Pinholes can be a killer, reg has to be dead nuts, no monkeying around, once the inks hit the screens, strike off then start jammin. have a spray bottle of water handy and 2 rags, one damp, one dry. tape your screens if a large run....what about mixing the activator, I think a lot of you guys prefer to add it to a splash of hot water first, then into the mix? we just mix it in. then drill it.
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...What is really cool about it, is that you actually use the formula IN THE PMS BOOK to color match. No secondary recipe to look up!!!
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At SGIA Vegas last week, CCI had all the pigments and 1 gallon of base for $80 bucks.
Would you know if that sets includes as well some fluorescent pigments?
The CCI mixing system is the pantone basic colors found in the front or back of your pantone book. There is no flo colors. They are working on premix flo colors if I remember my conversation I had with them in Vegas.
Below is how you get them. I got mine over a month ago. I hear they updated the Rubin Red to make it stronger.
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Frog can you break this thread up so its in the waterbase section. There is alot of great advice