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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: Binkspot on October 11, 2012, 09:47:46 AM
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What are others using and why to degrease and remove ghost images from screens. I have been using BOB's degreaser and haze reducer which works amazing but wondering what else is out there, never had problems with it. We have tried several other products but just not getting the same results as the BOB's.
Our screens go from the dip tank, power washed, sprayed with the one step degreaser/reducer then rinsed and dried.
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I can say that Saati's HR6 is not impressive. Nice smell, but that's it. ;)
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CCI Liquid Renu-It is the best I have found for this particular double duty.
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I'm using easiway 701, that stuff is pretty damn good. I've tried numerous ink degraders/haze removers and all work fairly well, but the 701 has always stuck around for some reason. I don't know if it has degreasing properties, we don't degrease unless it's a screen I just stretched up and my greasy paws were all over it.
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CCI Liquid Renu-it
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CCI GR-70 it will clean your screens so they look new. Just pray on move it around with a scrub brush to get it everywhere and then let sit for a min or two. Then pressure wash off. Its not a degreaser but it cleans everything out. I have used CCI Liquid Renu-it and it just does nothing. Do you guys soak it in it or something. I have some here and it will sit until I toss it.
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My Liquid Renuit sat for awhile because I really didnt like the smell but when I ran out of 701 I tried it again and it works great. For deep stains you have to let it set for a couple of minutes though.
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I like 701, but the bad thing about it is that my suppliers cary it only in 5 gallon pails (I'm a small shop).
I ordered 901 now and I will try it in a next few days.
I also used this http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/CCGREEND-P (http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/CCGREEND-P) and I like it too.
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CCI GR-70 it will clean your screens so they look new. Just pray on move it around with a scrub brush to get it everywhere and then let sit for a min or two. Then pressure wash off. Its not a degreaser but it cleans everything out. I have used CCI Liquid Renu-it and it just does nothing. Do you guys soak it in it or something. I have some here and it will sit until I toss it.
The instructions specifically say to
"Brush product on the ink side of a wet or dry screen. Agitate on both sides of the screen with a non-abrasive brush or pad and set aside for approximately 3-30 minutes.
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De-ink/tape, dip, pressure wash, apply Renuit, set aside until the next one is done or if really bad until all are done.
You can tell right away when you apply the Renuit if it's a bad one, the easy ones will wipe right off instantly.
If it doesn't, put it at the back of the line.
That GR70 is great stuff too. A little harsh for everyday use but we use it for cleaning frames before they
are re-stretched. Like cleaning with acetone or something.
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Re Nuit is the bomb. As Frog said follow the instructions and it will work. If a really bad image let sit over night, next day reactivate and blast out.
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You can also beef any of these up a bit by applying on a dry screen to reduce dilution.
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I tried all of that. I didn't wait very long maybe a min or 2. I hate the smell and what I do now is fast and easy so why go back.
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I do like eb but with franmar's de haze. prefer the gel version so it don't run into the protective tape and all over while sitting. it works well and smells but nothing over the top.
we degrease every screen, the de haze is oily.
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I'm with Alan on this.. EasiSolv 701. Works great.
The Bob's stuff is pretty gnarly, super caustic.
John
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I use a haze removal I forget which company, but I let the screens sit for about 15 mintues and those jokes were ripped down the middle. Right now I,m using the green Zone dehaze 669 and its really not that good..might try what you guys are using.
Darryl
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I use CCI Envirohaze. were pretty happy with it, and our CCI rep Jaime is awesome, takes super good care of us.
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Of course you don't have to, but consider purchasing all your screen chemistry including emulsion from the same manufacturer. True, you can usually "mix and match" till to you find the products that work best for you. But I find comfort in using products that were specifically designed to work with each other. Then thers the added bonus of better technical support.
Just a thought
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I don't dehaze at all any more. I think because I truely don't know the difference between haze and a stain and the more you dehaze, the more damage you are doing to the mesh. I found that if there were "stains" in the screen after reclaim, I would wash with ink remover again and that would take care of most of the stuff and if it didn't, well it was truely stained, degrease then done. I use CCI degreaser, can't think of the name but its red and mixes 30/1
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I use a haze removal I forget which company, but I let the screens sit for about 15 mintues and those jokes were ripped down the middle. Right now I,m using the green Zone dehaze 669 and its really not that good..might try what you guys are using.
Darryl
I thought that I had replied to this yesterday, but, apparently not, so here it is again
The "ripper" sounds like the old caustic lye-based pastes that were commonly used for years. The absolute worst (or best) is Autohaze from McDermid Autotype or whatever they are called now-a-days.
They were the reason I started a quest about ten years ago that eventually found me my Liquid Reni-it.
And yes, stains or ghost images are more of an issue than "haze" per se. Stains, though can actually affect exposures, especially of fine halftone areas.
Actual haze, I experienced much more when we used Xylene as a cleaner, and the screens were probably underexposed. Sometimes, the haze was ghosts of previous images.
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ebscreen wrote: "That GR70 is great stuff too. A little harsh for everyday use"
I just had a discussion with dottone during a get together in Orlando that I have some screens, N300 mesh, that are 10 years old. I use GR70 on every screen, every reclaim. If I have mesh that lasts ten years I feel that the GR70 is in no way "a little harsh". These are screens that get used an average of 3 times a month.
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I also used this [url]http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/CCGREEND-P[/url] ([url]http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/CCGREEND-P[/url]) and I like it too.
Same here, CCI. The green stuff. Works very well without causing any damage to the mesh. Right now we are trying Easiway's Screen Perfect which is a degreaser and general mesh prep. Not sure about it yet.
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I use a haze removal I forget which company, but I let the screens sit for about 15 mintues and those jokes were ripped down the middle. Right now I,m using the green Zone dehaze 669 and its really not that good..might try what you guys are using.
Darryl
I thought that I had replied to this yesterday, but, apparently not, so here it is again
The "ripper" sounds like the old caustic lye-based pastes that were commonly used for years. The absolute worst (or best) is Autohaze from McDermid Autotype or whatever they are called now-a-days.
They were the reason I started a quest about ten years ago that eventually found me my Liquid Reni-it.
And yes, stains or ghost images are more of an issue than "haze" per se. Stains, though can actually affect exposures, especially of fine halftone areas.
Actual haze, I experienced much more when we used Xylene as a cleaner, and the screens were probably underexposed. Sometimes, the haze was ghosts of previous images.
Curious as to the terminology here, as I have understood it, "haze" was from emulsion and "ghosts" from ink--i.e. the best way to eliminate haze was proper exposure and stencil removal, and the best way to eliminate ghosts was to use an effective ink remover properly. Not touching 'phantom haze', but not sure if I'm being a retro-grouch here. ???
Anyway, as far as ghost/haze remover goes, I played with samples of everything I could get my hands on, some of it was bordering a joke to me--seriously, I got a product to try from a company I respect highly, and it was literally water, water glass, and bleach.
When I have issues with either type of screen crappiness, I use a sodium hydroxide based product from CCI--LSR-30. It seems to be easier on mesh than the old pregan paste, and combines a degreasing agent so after a good rinse it's ready to coat. May need to get a sample of the Renu-it though.
The green stuff sounds great--except it claims the same horrible thing that other similar products say--it degreases, dehazes, and abrades? Unless you're using cap film, you DON'T want to abrade, and even if you are, you don't want to abrade every time you reclaim. I got a line from a rep about how it doesn't abrade enough to damage mesh--WTF is the definition of abrade then? ::)
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I don't know the Green Stuff specifically, but over the years have seen more than one product that combined degreaser with grit for the somewhat outdated and misguided practice of helping cap film and even erroneously, emulsion (due to its "sandwiching" application) to adhere to the mesh better.
However, we learned that the increased wear on the mesh overshadowed any benefit, evem with cap film.
And yes, it was generally just done once, to new mesh.
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I have a bottle of the green stuff and dont care for it. It does not remove stains/haze nearly as well as the Renuit and will probably collect dust and dry out in my shop.
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I use a haze removal I forget which company, but I let the screens sit for about 15 mintues and those jokes were ripped down the middle. Right now I,m using the green Zone dehaze 669 and its really not that good..might try what you guys are using.
Darryl
I thought that I had replied to this yesterday, but, apparently not, so here it is again
The "ripper" sounds like the old caustic lye-based pastes that were commonly used for years. The absolute worst (or best) is Autohaze from McDermid Autotype or whatever they are called now-a-days.
They were the reason I started a quest about ten years ago that eventually found me my Liquid Reni-it.
And yes, stains or ghost images are more of an issue than "haze" per se. Stains, though can actually affect exposures, especially of fine halftone areas.
Actual haze, I experienced much more when we used Xylene as a cleaner, and the screens were probably underexposed. Sometimes, the haze was ghosts of previous images.
Curious as to the terminology here, as I have understood it, "haze" was from emulsion and "ghosts" from ink--i.e. the best way to eliminate haze was proper exposure and stencil removal, and the best way to eliminate ghosts was to use an effective ink remover properly. Not touching 'phantom haze', but not sure if I'm being a retro-grouch here. ???
Anyway, as far as ghost/haze remover goes, I played with samples of everything I could get my hands on, some of it was bordering a joke to me--seriously, I got a product to try from a company I respect highly, and it was literally water, water glass, and bleach.
When I have issues with either type of screen crappiness, I use a sodium hydroxide based product from CCI--LSR-30. It seems to be easier on mesh than the old pregan paste, and combines a degreasing agent so after a good rinse it's ready to coat. May need to get a sample of the Renu-it though.
The green stuff sounds great--except it claims the same horrible thing that other similar products say--it degreases, dehazes, and abrades? Unless you're using cap film, you DON'T want to abrade, and even if you are, you don't want to abrade every time you reclaim. I got a line from a rep about how it doesn't abrade enough to damage mesh--WTF is the definition of abrade then? ::)
I can't find anywhere in the product description that the Green Stuff abrades the mesh.
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I just had a discussion with dottone during a get together in Orlando that I have some screens, N300 mesh, that are 10 years old. I use GR70 on every screen, every reclaim. If I have mesh that lasts ten years I feel that the GR70 is in no way "a little harsh". These are screens that get used an average of 3 times a month.
I meant for the person(s) using the chemical, not the item being cleaned. It is great, but one whiff and whooooooo
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I just had a discussion with dottone during a get together in Orlando that I have some screens, N300 mesh, that are 10 years old. I use GR70 on every screen, every reclaim. If I have mesh that lasts ten years I feel that the GR70 is in no way "a little harsh". These are screens that get used an average of 3 times a month.
I meant for the person(s) using the chemical, not the item being cleaned. It is great, but one whiff and whooooooo
How many screens do you get cleaned on average with one gallon of GR70?
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From link provided--could be Ryonet's misinformation.
From Ryonet, by CCI
What if you could dehaze a screen, degrease a screen and abrade prep your mesh all in ONE step? What if you could do this with a user friendly product that is environmentally responsible that also happens to smell great and saves you money? If you have The Green Stuff in your washout sink, you can!!!
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"How many screens do you get cleaned on average with one gallon of GR70?"
I buy it by the 5 gallon and refill a qt spray bottle. Depending on the amount of cleaning needed on each screen I would estimate 120-140 per gallon. These are 23 x 31 roller frames. Also, the GR70 does a great job on the frames as well. Keeps them looking like new.
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I begin to wonder if the Green Stuff and The pink stuff from CCI are same product just in a different color.
Nevertheless it's easier to promote it as a Eco friendly product if it's color is green. And you won't find the green stuff on te CCI website if I'm not mistaken.
http://www.ccidom.com/products.php?product=THE-PINK-STUFF--DEHAZER%7B47%7D-DEGREASER (http://www.ccidom.com/products.php?product=THE-PINK-STUFF--DEHAZER%7B47%7D-DEGREASER)
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From link provided--could be Ryonet's misinformation.
From Ryonet, by CCI
What if you could dehaze a screen, degrease a screen and abrade prep your mesh all in ONE step? What if you could do this with a user friendly product that is environmentally responsible that also happens to smell great and saves you money? If you have The Green Stuff in your washout sink, you can!!!
Ryonet is endorsing abrading your mesh WTF I thought those guys were the pros.
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Sam is always pointing out the difference between screen printers and business people.
You make the call.