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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Rockers on August 19, 2012, 11:15:06 PM
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Has anyone here an idea who is making the inkjet films for Ryonet.I assume they just buy of some other brand and get them relabled. Any users on the board here?
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Not sure but they are way too expensive on film thats for sure.
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What brand do you get?
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3 Good Sources:
maverickgraphicsupply.com
fixxons.com
inkjetfilm.net
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inkjetfilm.net is the best we have tried, and Cameron is a cool guy!
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Vote for inkjetfilm.net as well. It's about half the price of Ryonet.
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So far, best price, best service, great film for us is Brad at Maverick. Unbeatable price on 17x22 100 pack of inkjet film. Rocker, take a pic of the package and label of the film from Ryo. The one we get from Maverick is made by the same company that another place we used to get film from private labels, made for an easy transition from one supplier to another. Brad also gives personal service where the supplier we used to buy from was web based. Basically, I'd rather support someone who goes out of their way to give support. :D
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Unbeatable price on 17x22 100 pack of inkjet film.
Careful with that statement. Support whoever you like, I have no problem at all with that, but unbeatable is a powerful word. LOL
http://www.maverickgraphicsupply.com/store/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=15&category_id=1 (http://www.maverickgraphicsupply.com/store/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=15&category_id=1)
$149
VS
http://inkjetfilm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5 (http://inkjetfilm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5)
$89
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we may be hitting critical mass on film suppliers. There can be only so many "low price" places.
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we may be hitting critical mass on film suppliers. There can be only so many "low price" places.
There will be as many suppliers as the market bares I would assume. Just like Screen Printers. LOL
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It will be interesting to see just how much margin there is and how low prices can go if film wars break out.
That's where screen suppliers may lose the edge to manufacturers and importers.
Also interesting will be if there will be any push to pay a little more for American made.
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It will be interesting to see just how much margin there is and how low prices can go if film wars break out.
That's where screen suppliers may lose the edge to manufacturers and importers.
Also interesting will be if there will be any push to pay a little more for American made.
I am all for buying american at some level of a premium. I do believe at some point though you have to really consider how much it is costing you. There is cost and then there is retarded. LOL.
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It will be interesting to see just how much margin there is and how low prices can go if film wars break out.
That's where screen suppliers may lose the edge to manufacturers and importers.
Also interesting will be if there will be any push to pay a little more for American made.
I am all for buying american at some level of a premium. I do believe at some point though you have to really consider how much it is costing you. There is cost and then there is retarded. LOL.
Until it's your customers that are going overseas.
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Until it's your customers that are going overseas.
Well, there are things you can do to stop that as well. Like not be over priced, slow, or put out crap product. If I manage to put out a great product at a great price with great customer service then I have done all I can do. I think its clear if some people are 2x the price as others on films then someone marking up their product way to much.
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Got a call last week for printing polypropylene bags in the 10K/1 color range. Gave him my best
price and I'm still ten times the cost for the same thing in China, and I knew it.
We would likely produce a better product at a much shorter lead time but for some that
does not matter.
Fella lacked the wherewithal not to ask why we're so much more. I asked him if he wanted
to work for Chinese wages in America...
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Got a call last week for printing polypropylene bags in the 10K/1 color range. Gave him my best
price and I'm still ten times the cost for the same thing in China, and I knew it.
We would likely produce a better product at a much shorter lead time but for some that
does not matter.
Fella lacked the wherewithal not to ask why we're so much more. I asked him if he wanted
to work for Chinese wages in America...
EB, "Clearly you are marking up your product way too much." ;)
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inkjetfilm or Cameron is the manufacturer, SO, let everyone try but I doubt they can beat him. And its a great product.
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Got a call last week for printing polypropylene bags in the 10K/1 color range. Gave him my best
price and I'm still ten times the cost for the same thing in China, and I knew it.
We would likely produce a better product at a much shorter lead time but for some that
does not matter.
Fella lacked the wherewithal not to ask why we're so much more. I asked him if he wanted
to work for Chinese wages in America...
What was your price on 10k 1 color? (1 side? or 2)? Just curious where you are at compared to the 10 times less in China. Was the China price including shipping? I've competed in quotes with some China work. Time shipping was in there I was competitive and certainly the wait time with me was way better.
If a client is okay with that type of wait time then there isn't a lot you can do about it, and I agree your product is likely better if not much better, but that's not to say there aren't good China Printers. Just few and far between. I wouldn't say ALL are bad.
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Quality varies HUGE with inkjet films.
Got some stuff from Ryonet quite a few years back that was unusable garbage.
Not sure if that's changed.
I can usually tell if it's any good by licking my finger and touching the print side
of the film. Big stick = good.
Lastly, more than I hate garbage offshore manufacturing, I hate the American folks that
take American business and send it that way.
A few years back I got a call from a print broker that was looking for artwork for a client
that had done some large numbers with us in the past. This lady (from one of the wealthier
towns around here) specifically stated on her web page that they would provide bottom price
point products by going to overseas manufacturing. Eff that noise.
Funny thing is she had a copy of a mockup we had sent the company that had perfectly
usable vector artwork, and her foreign counterpart was either too dimwitted or tired of her
BS and told her it wasn't usable. It came to her pretty much asking me to modify the art
and send it to her so she could use it to take business away from us, no charge of course.
There is nothing that enrages me more than folks trying to get rich without lifting a finger,
at the price of someone else losing work. The realtors of the print world.
Just thinking about it makes me want to print a million stickers deriding her business.
Not that I care much about the loss of the client, just that people like that need to not
exist.
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Got a call last week for printing polypropylene bags in the 10K/1 color range. Gave him my best
price and I'm still ten times the cost for the same thing in China, and I knew it.
We would likely produce a better product at a much shorter lead time but for some that
does not matter.
Fella lacked the wherewithal not to ask why we're so much more. I asked him if he wanted
to work for Chinese wages in America...
EB, "Clearly you are marking up your product way too much." ;)
If company X and company Y are buying the same or very similar product at the same or similar price and they are both coming from "China" but one is half the price then id have to wonder why pay more. Being that many inkjet film suppliers are probably getting it from China be it directly or indirectly and some are as much as 2x or more the price as others, its clear to me that someone is keeping more than they should. Pay more if you like, but be sure if you are gonna pull out the "he must be getting it in China" card that your guy isn't as well...... LOL.
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What was your price on 10k 1 color? (1 side? or 2)? Just curious where you are at compared to the 10 times less in China. Was the China price including shipping? I've competed in quotes with some China work. Time shipping was in there I was competitive and certainly the wait time with me was way better.
If a client is okay with that type of wait time then there isn't a lot you can do about it, and I agree your product is likely better if not much better, but that's not to say there aren't good China Printers. Just few and far between. I wouldn't say ALL are bad.
$0.38/side, single color. He was paying $0.04.
If his clients need them faster we'll have the work, but that's beside the point.
How can you even ask why China is cheaper?
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Quality varies HUGE with inkjet films.
Got some stuff from Ryonet quite a few years back that was unusable garbage.
Not sure if that's changed.
I can usually tell if it's any good by licking my finger and touching the print side
of the film. Big stick = good.
Lastly, more than I hate garbage offshore manufacturing, I hate the American folks that
take American business and send it that way.
A few years back I got a call from a print broker that was looking for artwork for a client
that had done some large numbers with us in the past. This lady (from one of the wealthier
towns around here) specifically stated on her web page that they would provide bottom price
point products by going to overseas manufacturing. Eff that noise.
Funny thing is she had a copy of a mockup we had sent the company that had perfectly
usable vector artwork, and her foreign counterpart was either too dimwitted or tired of her
BS and told her it wasn't usable. It came to her pretty much asking me to modify the art
and send it to her so she could use it to take business away from us, no charge of course.
There is nothing that enrages me more than folks trying to get rich without lifting a finger,
at the price of someone else losing work. The realtors of the print world.
Just thinking about it makes me want to print a million stickers deriding her business.
Not that I care much about the loss of the client, just that people like that need to not
exist.
Are you all USA? Garments, Inks, Film, Machines, components within your machines, steel in your building, bricks in the building, wood, nails, etc? Just curious.
I hear a lot of USA Chest thumpers that are often hypocrites when you get down to it (not saying you are at all just making a point here).
I try to throw business to USA first, but there is a line you have to draw. Hell I have 2 USA made screen print presses (Vastex and M&R). But they are backed up well by service and support that I was willing to pay for. Folks we are talking about film, what support or service do we need? If we are talking Apples to Apples and the difference is price is where? I have to save my business money where it makes sense. What am I getting for 2x the price of this film elsewhere?
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I try to have the best pricing on film but there wil ALWAYS be someone lower. That's just the nature of the beast. People have come to us for 10 years due to our service and pricing. That's great that the other place has lower pricing. Maybe they have lower overhead, who knows. If the price keeps going lower I go out of business, and maybe others. Then you have 1-2 suppliers and price goes up. Econ 101
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Didn't you read, he can compete with China and he pays his employees and entire fleet of Chinese worker's wages.
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Side note:
Down here in Louisiana crawfish is obviously a big industry. There is a big thing with "don't buy chinese crawfish" by just about everyone. This is because everyone around here knows someone who knows someone who farms crawfish. Though I TOTALLY respect that, I do find it funny that these same people are scoffing at these "chinese crawfish" while they are shopping for all their chinese made goods in walmart!
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Oh, don't get me wrong, no chest thumping here. Hell, is it even possible to buy an
American made computer?
My gripe is with:
A. The people who literally steer companies towards overseas manufacturing to make
a few bucks for themselves at the cost of a few bucks for a whole lot of American workers.
Usually the get-rich-quick/do nothing type.
B. Folks that do not understand why something made in America might cost more. these are
typically the folks that could give a rats behind about quality. Whatever.
For some of this we only have ourselves to blame. Take the auto industry for example. You couldn't
pay me to own %99 of American made cars from about 1992 to 2011.
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Toyota Camry is made in the US. ;)
I know exactly what Gilligan is talking about. People are very selective when it comes to what beliefs they want to follow and when.
I try and avoid chinese food period. Unless it's baby formula, because a little melamine helps a body grow.
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I remember a theory awhile back that the Chinese are putting their industrial waste products into new products
they sell us. Slick move if they are.
And Gilligan, I also remember that the California delta used to ship large amounts of crawdads to
the southeast...
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What was your price on 10k 1 color? (1 side? or 2)? Just curious where you are at compared to the 10 times less in China. Was the China price including shipping? I've competed in quotes with some China work. Time shipping was in there I was competitive and certainly the wait time with me was way better.
If a client is okay with that type of wait time then there isn't a lot you can do about it, and I agree your product is likely better if not much better, but that's not to say there aren't good China Printers. Just few and far between. I wouldn't say ALL are bad.
$0.38/side, single color. He was paying $0.04.
If his clients need them faster we'll have the work, but that's beside the point.
How can you even ask why China is cheaper?
That's about where I am on that, I am $.30 per side (1 color). I was just curious. I wouldn't even try to get the job at $.04 each either. Was $.04 each shipping included?
When did I ask why China is cheaper, I am fully aware of why China is cheaper. I am the son of a
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Side note:
Down here in Louisiana crawfish is obviously a big industry. There is a big thing with "don't buy chinese crawfish" by just about everyone. This is because everyone around here knows someone who knows someone who farms crawfish. Though I TOTALLY respect that, I do find it funny that these same people are scoffing at these "chinese crawfish" while they are shopping for all their chinese made goods in walmart!
Exactly my point! LOL.
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I am the son of a
beach?
Son of the Beach Intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhyDHOM6_5U#ws)
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Never said you asked why China is cheaper, I was referring to the print broker that
asked me.
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Oh, don't get me wrong, no chest thumping here. Hell, is it even possible to buy an
American made computer?
True story there. We all just keep buying them too.
My gripe is with:
A. The people who literally steer companies towards overseas manufacturing to make
a few bucks for themselves at the cost of a few bucks for a whole lot of American workers.
Usually the get-rich-quick/do nothing type.
I agree on a few bucks, I don't agree at 2x the price. I am all for made in the USA when it is a reasonable option. 2x the price does not fall into reasonable to me.
B. Folks that do not understand why something made in America might cost more. these are
typically the folks that could give a rats behind about quality. Whatever.
For sure there, there are a lot of people have no idea why it costs less to be made there. But to say all of it is crap is a stretch, I use a iPhone daily, made in China. China can have great quality, if the manufacture wants it to be. This has less to do with the workers than it does with the people checking quality or setting a level of quality from the start.
For some of this we only have ourselves to blame. Take the auto industry for example. You couldn't
pay me to own %99 of American made cars from about 1992 to 2011.
I would generally agree, I did however buy a 2004 Chevy Diesel brand new in 2004. Now it does have a Isuzu diesel motor in it, so the quality is there on that, but the rest of the truck (made in america) has fell apart far worse than anything I owned other than that (mostly all Toyota before that). I think you can say the same thing about quality of American made items at times as you can about China. In the end if the manufacture doesn't care the employees surely wont.
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Never said you asked why China is cheaper, I was referring to the print broker that
asked me.
Got ya.
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I've trained my daughter not to shop at walmart and her and her boyfriend when shopping the other day and he wanted to go to walmart (he was buying on this trip). He spent almost double what she spends and they bought basically the same thing. There is a HUGE slight of hand going on that "walmart is cheaper" when in reality it isn't and if it is it's not by enough to justify selling your soul.
My mother-in-law is a prime example of someone who will buy all day from walmart but then the other day she refused to buy some avocados because they were from Mexico. LOL That's what watching Fox News 24/7 will do to you though.
Getting even further from the point is the people that will argue that we don't trade with Cuba because they are communist, as they say to me on their chinese built iPhone. ;)
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What was your price on 10k 1 color? (1 side? or 2)? Just curious where you are at compared to the 10 times less in China. Was the China price including shipping? I've competed in quotes with some China work. Time shipping was in there I was competitive and certainly the wait time with me was way better.
If a client is okay with that type of wait time then there isn't a lot you can do about it, and I agree your product is likely better if not much better, but that's not to say there aren't good China Printers. Just few and far between. I wouldn't say ALL are bad.
I think you 0.38 per bag is way too high.....On 3,000+ bags, my main tote bag supplier charges 0.06 per bag for a 1 colour 1 location print....And they print in either Chicago or Phoenix...But if I need to quote direct from China, then it is 0.015 per bag for a 1 colour 1 location imprint....
The tote bag suppliers have got the printing down to a science and do it very cheap...
$0.38/side, single color. He was paying $0.04.
If his clients need them faster we'll have the work, but that's beside the point.
How can you even ask why China is cheaper?
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inkjetfilm.net is the best we have tried, and Cameron is a cool guy!
I would love to try their products but
a) they don`t have 14" rolls
and
b) it looks like they unfortunately don`t ship abroad.
But I might as well email them and ask if they can ship to far far away lands.
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inkjetfilm.net is the best we have tried, and Cameron is a cool guy!
I would love to try their products but
a) they don`t have 14" rolls
and
b) it looks like they unfortunately don`t ship abroad.
But I might as well email them and ask if they can ship to far far away lands.
I will ask Cameron myself, arent you in Japan, dont know about that far away, but I will quiz him.
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inkjetfilm.net is the best we have tried, and Cameron is a cool guy!
I would love to try their products but
a) they don`t have 14" rolls
and
b) it looks like they unfortunately don`t ship abroad.
But I might as well email them and ask if they can ship to far far away lands.
I will ask Cameron myself, arent you in Japan, dont know about that far away, but I will quiz him.
Hey it`s just on the other side of the Pacific;)
Anyway, thanks for asking him.
Chromaline used to get all their films made in Japan before switching production to the US. They never felt like sharing with me who made those films for them in Japan and I doubt I would have saved any cash at all if I would have been able to buy straight of the manufacturer. The price would probably have doubled.
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I remember paying $210 for a box of 13x19 back in the day, 5 years ago. I can't believe how much cheaper it is now. I hated paying that SOB that much for that box of film when I knew it wasn't worth that much, just another reason why I dislike the guy. Their price dropped in half within a few months when there was new competition from Chromaline and Davis International. Funny how many options there are out there now, and for well under 100 per 100 sheets.
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I think you 0.38 per bag is way too high.....On 3,000+ bags, my main tote bag supplier charges 0.06 per bag for a 1 colour 1 location print....And they print in either Chicago or Phoenix...But if I need to quote direct from China, then it is 0.015 per bag for a 1 colour 1 location imprint....
The tote bag suppliers have got the printing down to a science and do it very cheap...
Ahem.
Let's do some math here. Six cents a bag X 700 pcs/hr (that's pretty quick, and about as fast as we can sustain for
long periods) = $42 dollars per hour. This is per press of course, and assuming two operators.
Not sure what minimum wage or rent is in Chicago or Phoenix, but I'd wager someone (likely the
employees) is getting screwed.
Then again, maybe they use cylinder presses or something.
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I just did 5000 cotton totes for $0.30 ea. and I should have priced it $.05 - .10 higher.
We didn't lose money, but there wasn't a lot left on the plate after paying 2.5 people a decent wage.
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I just did 5000 cotton totes for $0.30 ea. and I should have priced it $.05 - .10 higher.
We didn't lose money, but there wasn't a lot left on the plate after paying 2.5 people a decent wage.
Been there and done that recently. I thought I was a hot shot by getting a 4K piece job and doing it for cheaper than everyone else, .35, and a day and a half later I figured it wasn't really worth it. Easy print but damn, hard work for not much money when it's all said and done. Sure we made money, but we would have made a lot more if we would have done 10 regular jobs and charged setups and dollars per shirt than a couple dimes per shirt.
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Has anyone here an idea who is making the inkjet films for Ryonet.I assume they just buy of some other brand and get them relabled. Any users on the board here?
Late to the game here but we tried ryonets film on a roll about a year ago when they had a buy one get the 2nd 50% off - let's just say the waterproofing wasnt the greatest. We were using it with chromaline's UDC-2, which is tacky like chromablue, and the waterproofing kept ripping off along with the ink. We switched back to chromaline's film and the issue drastically reduced/stopped almost entirely.
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It will be interesting to see just how much margin there is and how low prices can go if film wars break out.
That's where screen suppliers may lose the edge to manufacturers and importers.
Also interesting will be if there will be any push to pay a little more for American made.
I am all for buying american at some level of a premium. I do believe at some point though you have to really consider how much it is costing you. There is cost and then there is retarded. LOL.
Yes, I can imagine thats what the owners of Weirton Steel said also. THis is my home town. My dad worked here for w while and was laid off. Then he started his business a Dog Groomer.
(http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/weirton4.jpg)
http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/wv.htm (http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/wv.htm)
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec05/steel_10-27.html (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec05/steel_10-27.html)
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going back to the films. . .
Did I miss something? Are both of those places selling the identical film at such a price gap? If they are the same product, the story is different, but I would imagine it was two different manufacturer and thus the price difference. I have tried several types of film and have found some of it to be real bad. We are paying significantly more for the film that works better (lower dot gain, darker stencil, less moire . . .). All film is not created equal! Anybody thinking so feel free to give me a call and I'll explain the difference.
pierre
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and I agree your product is likely better if not much better, but that's not to say there aren't good China Printers. Just few and far between. I wouldn't say ALL are bad.
Spot colors they can do. Sim process, they cannot. In fact, they are surprisingly about 20 years behind us. The large majority of Chinese screen print shops are very manual and very archaic in their process. Part of that reason is investments into industry products needed to do the job correct as well as just not having the technology (in all cities). What you see in Beijing is not he majority. Most are working in plants that are 100 years old and just getting state of the art power connections to where you can break out of dial up. Grantee, all my knowledge of Chia was last experienced 3 years ago, but I'm sure it has not gotten better in the screen print industry.
They are more "technically skilled" at knocking stuff odd manually...and so they will re-draw every part of an art file. (This is more so why they prefer PDF art files....so they can print them out onto paper easily and re-draw them (by hand). Sounds like a stretch right? I thought so also. I thought they were (for whatever reason), lying to us.
It turns out, that they can get an art file downloaded to them much faster by receiving jpp's or PDF's (as apposed to waiting on their dial up modems) to download the large art files....that often break connection in-between downloads. So yea,. They re-draw your art. That can be why it looks so crappy when it comes back many times. when dealing with such a far distance, and getting samples done, they would rather download a PDF or jpg, re-draw your complex design...and print samples. At this time, they are now just about complete with downloading your art file after your sample is sent out. So, often times, you can a sample back and they met the deadline for the buyer. (as meeting your sample deadline is far more important than having the art work correct,) Now, we go through about as many as 6 revisions depending on how much time we have and how desperate the buyer is to get the job done as correct as possible. So, 6 revisions, and 3 months later, you may have an approved sample (that you are still not happy with).
That is the reality of working with china in retail. Jpg to vector conversions is a good business for them. NOt sim process or any difficult job...and do not send them complex large art files of over 5-10mb.
I separated a job the other day for a printer here in my town....that might have got the art from some website...and had China re-draw it to vector....then had me re-separate it so that he didn't have any problems printing it. It must have been auto traced at 2"x5" and then blown up to 12.5 wide and sent back. No curves to letters or anything. This guy was printing it just like that. This is partly why they have such a big market on jpg to vector conversions. They can use the oldest program versions never needing to upgrade to achieve your end product.
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It will be interesting to see just how much margin there is and how low prices can go if film wars break out.
That's where screen suppliers may lose the edge to manufacturers and importers.
Also interesting will be if there will be any push to pay a little more for American made.
I am all for buying american at some level of a premium. I do believe at some point though you have to really consider how much it is costing you. There is cost and then there is retarded. LOL.
Yes, I can imagine thats what the owners of Weirton Steel said also. THis is my home town. My dad worked here for w while and was laid off. Then he started his business a Dog Groomer.
([url]http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/weirton4.jpg[/url])
[url]http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/wv.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/wv.htm[/url])
[url]http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec05/steel_10-27.html[/url] ([url]http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec05/steel_10-27.html[/url])
Exactly Dan.
We had "Martin Mills" located about 20 mins away from us. They were a big Fruit of the Looms factory. After NAFTA (thanks Clinton) that whole operation go shipped off to Mexico.
Did any of you guys recognize massive savings on your FTL goods? Didn't thinks so. In fact I heard of local guys getting KILLER deals from them. Prices of blanks have gone up up up... yet it's all outsourced more and more.
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It will be interesting to see just how much margin there is and how low prices can go if film wars break out.
That's where screen suppliers may lose the edge to manufacturers and importers.
Also interesting will be if there will be any push to pay a little more for American made.
I am all for buying american at some level of a premium. I do believe at some point though you have to really consider how much it is costing you. There is cost and then there is retarded. LOL.
Yes, I can imagine thats what the owners of Weirton Steel said also. THis is my home town. My dad worked here for w while and was laid off. Then he started his business a Dog Groomer.
([url]http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/weirton4.jpg[/url])
[url]http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/wv.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/wv/wv.htm[/url])
[url]http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec05/steel_10-27.html[/url] ([url]http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec05/steel_10-27.html[/url])
That really sucks no doubt. It's easier to find a customer than a job!
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Do you guys know what our number one export is these days?
TRASH! We export more garbage than anything else.
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going back to the films. . .
Did I miss something? Are both of those places selling the identical film at such a price gap? If they are the same product, the story is different, but I would imagine it was two different manufacturer and thus the price difference. I have tried several types of film and have found some of it to be real bad. We are paying significantly more for the film that works better (lower dot gain, darker stencil, less moire . . .). All film is not created equal! Anybody thinking so feel free to give me a call and I'll explain the difference.
pierre
Back on subject we can start with the D-Max/D-min ratio when it comes to film quality but that is a function of the ink as well.
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Do you guys know what our number one export is these days?
TRASH! We export more garbage than anything else.
You mean like American Cars/Trucks?
;) LOL
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What was your price on 10k 1 color? (1 side? or 2)? Just curious where you are at compared to the 10 times less in China. Was the China price including shipping? I've competed in quotes with some China work. Time shipping was in there I was competitive and certainly the wait time with me was way better.
If a client is okay with that type of wait time then there isn't a lot you can do about it, and I agree your product is likely better if not much better, but that's not to say there aren't good China Printers. Just few and far between. I wouldn't say ALL are bad.
$0.38/side, single color. He was paying $0.04.
If his clients need them faster we'll have the work, but that's beside the point.
How can you even ask why China is cheaper?
That's about where I am on that, I am $.30 per side (1 color). I was just curious. I wouldn't even try to get the job at $.04 each either. Was $.04 each shipping included?
When did I ask why China is cheaper, I am fully aware of why China is cheaper. I am the son of a
One contract printer advertises .40 on an (A). he is ASI so thats 50% or .20 to the distributor.
The contract printers I work with (u=in the US) are as such...
.25
.30
.35
.38
.40
.40
.40
Then we have Mexico, Guatemala and Honduras at around .05-.10
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the guys i know in honduras would have been .20
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$0.04/ sounds like a manufacturer who is printing multi-up before cutting up the material to make the bags, or printing inline for an automatic bag making line.
The only way to compete is on quantities lower than their minimum orders which are usually high numbers. Or to buy from them and resell.
if you can't beat them........
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On the topic of Ryonet inkjet film I tested it and, if I recall correctly, it sucked. In fact, I'll come right out and say that I think Ryonet is an amateur operation that doesn't understand what they're selling or what they're talking about. I hate ordering from them but they are unfortunately our closest stocking supplier for some items. Their service is just fine but they just don't know, for example, the difference between cold and hot peel transfer paper, things like that. And it's things like that that can and will screw you hard at the perfectly wrong time.
With inkjet film there's two now: "waterproof"(milky) and "non-waterproof" (crystal clear, like a carrier sheet). Neither have any different degree of "waterproofness" nor do they require it in any way shape or form but they clearly have different emulsions coated on the ink side.
I'm not sure which we're talking about but will assume the waterproof variety. Under this category I find many reselling Microjet brand which is adequate and very affordable. We buy 14" and 17" rolls from fixxons. I prefer higher end film but some of the methods I'm using purposefully use up or 'waste' inches of film. For example, when imaging a gang screen like a front heart and a back I'll use a template to place the images in the right spot and leave that stretch of blank film between them so it's one film to align and affix to the carrier and register, not two. Using film up like this saves labor but necessitates something affordable at the same time.
The biggest thing for me with inkjet film is consistency. If the reseller changes mfg or gets different spec'd film every time they order a lot you are going to be pulling your hair out.
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My understanding, and hopefully a film guy can jump in if needed, is that the "waterproof" coating is receptive to both dye and pigment inks, while the clear regular film was better for dye only.
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Unbeatable price on 17x22 100 pack of inkjet film.
Careful with that statement. Support whoever you like, I have no problem at all with that, but unbeatable is a powerful word. LOL
[url]http://www.maverickgraphicsupply.com/store/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=15&category_id=1[/url] ([url]http://www.maverickgraphicsupply.com/store/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=15&category_id=1[/url])
$149
VS
[url]http://inkjetfilm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5[/url] ([url]http://inkjetfilm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5[/url])
$89
There is no security certificate on inkjetfilm.net's login or customer checkout/registration page. I wouldn't put any personal info on a non-encrypted page like that.
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Also no certificate on Mavericksupply's site checkout page, ugh. And people wonder why identities get stolen lol. I would HOPE that both site's credit card processing page is encrypted, but I won't get that far unless I enter fake info lol.
Coastalbusiness.com has Folex films, not cheapest, not most expensive but their site has encryption at least!
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Ewww didn't notice that. But, you can always call to order.
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Also no certificate on Mavericksupply's site checkout page, ugh. And people wonder why identities get stolen lol. I would HOPE that both site's credit card processing page is encrypted, but I won't get that far unless I enter fake info lol.
Coastalbusiness.com has Folex films, not cheapest, not most expensive but their site has encryption at least!
Contact Brad direct, trust me, he will take care of you personally!
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Also no certificate on Mavericksupply's site checkout page, ugh. And people wonder why identities get stolen lol. I would HOPE that both site's credit card processing page is encrypted, but I won't get that far unless I enter fake info lol.
Coastalbusiness.com has Folex films, not cheapest, not most expensive but their site has encryption at least!
Contact Brad direct, trust me, he will take care of you personally!
Ehhh I find it irresponsible and unethical that people put up insecure websites asking for personal information. Both their site templates support security certificates, had they purchased and installed them. Best case scenario is they play dumb and say they didn't know? When I ran an online store that was the MOST important piece of online sales, security for the customer.
And Brandt, I ain't calling him lol I only order on the internet (sound familiar?) :D
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And Brandt, I ain't calling him lol I only order on the internet (sound familiar?) :D
I am the same way so I agree :)
I can only hope they don't know better. (both sites). It's not the easiest thing to do in the world for someone that doesn't know web sites, but its not rocket science either. Could be just didn't know or didn't know how. I have heard dumber stuff lol.
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Also no certificate on Mavericksupply's site checkout page, ugh. And people wonder why identities get stolen lol. I would HOPE that both site's credit card processing page is encrypted, but I won't get that far unless I enter fake info lol.
Coastalbusiness.com has Folex films, not cheapest, not most expensive but their site has encryption at least!
Contact Brad direct, trust me, he will take care of you personally!
Ehhh I find it irresponsible and unethical that people put up insecure websites asking for personal information. Both their site templates support security certificates, had they purchased and installed them. Best case scenario is they play dumb and say they didn't know? When I ran an online store that was the MOST important piece of online sales, security for the customer.
And Brandt, I ain't calling him lol I only order on the internet (sound familiar?) :D
I have watched this post and made one reply, but this is enough. To call me irresponsible and unethical goes WAY past what is acceptable. You can say whatever you want about my products, pricing, etc., but do NOT question my ethics! We have been in business 10 years based on our reputation and ethics, and many on these boards use our product. Our website only accepts PayPal, so no credit card information is needed. Many call us direct and use a credit card, and we have NEVER had a problem. This thread started out as a sincere request from someone asking about film, and it has deteriorated into bashing my site and others. Not what this site is all about.
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I was going to say the same thing Brad, using paypal is secure, don't quite understand how they can call you in to question about that. Can't pick up the phone or send a quick email to order from a real person, operating here on US soil with a family owned business? WOW. You took great care of us Brad and earned our business for film. This thread ended up being highjacked with too much negative, barney type bantering. Keeping doing what you do Brad!
Mike
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I have watched this post and made one reply, but this is enough. To call me irresponsible and unethical goes WAY past what is acceptable. You can say whatever you want about my products, pricing, etc., but do NOT question my ethics! We have been in business 10 years based on our reputation and ethics, and many on these boards use our product. Our website only accepts PayPal, so no credit card information is needed. Many call us direct and use a credit card, and we have NEVER had a problem. This thread started out as a sincere request from someone asking about film, and it has deteriorated into bashing my site and others. Not what this site is all about.
You are collecting customer information on your site without an encrypted connection to your server. Any information entered in those fields can be intercepted in transit. I don't doubt that you have been in business 10 years, your site and online store have not. You could have said you didn't know you were collecting data insecurely, but the harshness of my words may have gotten to you. I do warn people/friends/family NOT to enter information on unsecured sites. My intention was if you KNOWINGLY set up your site to collect that information without encryption, then that is unethical and irresponsible. It doesn't mean that YOU are using that information unjustly, just that the information can be intercepted by a 3rd party who can then do what they please with it.
If customers check out with PayPal via your site, then turn off the form page to collect information and only send products to their verified paypal address.
I apologize if it came off as harsh, but it should be fixed for your customer's sake!
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I was going to say the same thing Brad, using paypal is secure, don't quite understand how they can call you in to question about that. Can't pick up the phone or send a quick email to order from a real person, operating here on US soil with a family owned business? WOW. You took great care of us Brad and earned our business for film. This thread ended up being highjacked with too much negative, barney type bantering. Keeping doing what you do Brad!
Mike
Easy on the "they" stuff. I just replied to his post, I didn't look at it myself. I have no idea about either sites.
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Also no certificate on Mavericksupply's site checkout page, ugh. And people wonder why identities get stolen lol. I would HOPE that both site's credit card processing page is encrypted, but I won't get that far unless I enter fake info lol.
Coastalbusiness.com has Folex films, not cheapest, not most expensive but their site has encryption at least!
Contact Brad direct, trust me, he will take care of you personally!
Ehhh I find it irresponsible and unethical that people put up insecure websites asking for personal information. Both their site templates support security certificates, had they purchased and installed them. Best case scenario is they play dumb and say they didn't know? When I ran an online store that was the MOST important piece of online sales, security for the customer.
And Brandt, I ain't calling him lol I only order on the internet (sound familiar?) :D
I have used Brad's products and have met him in person and he is one of the good guys. A standup, caring guy. When I order online I never send credit card info without the page being secure, Brad uses PayPal for this. The only information he asks for on his site is the same information anybody can get by looking your name up in the phone book, or having your business card in their hand. Hardly putting you in danger of identity theft. Not trying to start a fire storm or look for an argument, but I think we need to take care to look into the situation in full before we make accusations that can damage the hard earned respect of someone's business. I will be using Maverick Graphic for supplies in the future without hesitation.
Eric
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I was going to say the same thing Brad, using paypal is secure, don't quite understand how they can call you in to question about that. Can't pick up the phone or send a quick email to order from a real person, operating here on US soil with a family owned business? WOW. You took great care of us Brad and earned our business for film. This thread ended up being highjacked with too much negative, barney type bantering. Keeping doing what you do Brad!
Mike
Easy on the "they" stuff. I just replied to his post, I didn't look at it myself. I have no idea about either sites.
Did I say Graphic Disorder? Nope, guilt points it's own finger because I sure didn't.
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Did I say Graphic Disorder? Nope, guilt points it's own finger because I sure didn't.
Cool story bro, tell it again. You implied plural, intentionally....
But no you didn't use my name, but I have no problem making my end clear. I replied to his claim, I never made a implication myself. In fact I said "didn't notice that". Because I didn't. But his claim still remains true, data is being transmitted without a secure connection, but yes its GREAT that it is NOT Credit Card Data just general contact info. But some people take that stuff really serious as well. In fact some take it stupid serious.
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(http://assets.denimblog.com/9/9d/9d6c69c6_thread-direction.jpeg)
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What ever dude, your track record of negative posting on multiple boards speaks for it's self. Have a good one, I'm done with the childish crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a business to run and employees to tend to, this 5th grade back and forth stuff is ridiculous!
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I can only hope they don't know better. (both sites). It's not the easiest thing to do in the world for someone that doesn't know web sites, but its not rocket science either. Could be just didn't know or didn't know how. I have heard dumber stuff lol.
This is probably the bits that got interpreted that way. I too read it like you were on the exact same page as he was.
On yet ANOTHER side note... do any of you guys use your credit cards to pay for meals at a restaurant? THAT is where a good majority of "identity" theft happens. It's not online that they are stealing your CC information... it's your trashcans and the people that take your credit card when you use it. Not hard to snap a pic with a camera phone these days and be able to PLACE an order online at that point.
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None of my comments were meant to harm anyone's business or livelihood. Merely to bring attention to the fact that they are collecting information without a secure connection. At least Brad doesn't ask to create a user name and password on an unsecured page like Inkjetfilm does.
Again, never my intention to imply that the site owners are thieves, just that the internet needs secure connections when entering ANY personal information.
If I don't see the "HTTPS" and a green lock symbol in my browser, I don't fill out the form, that simple.
I'm sorry I informed the screen printing world that two sites listed here lack security certificates that ALL shopping carts should have.
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My wife's bank card was recently used illegally.
She RARELY uses her bank card as that bank account has only one primary purpose. So she went back through the history and the only thing she had used it for in the past 6 months was a retail place where the card never left her hand (they only get the last four numbers), "pop a lock" a locksmith type company... where they WROTE down her card number and took it back to their office to charge it, and a restaurant... where they took the card off some place "unknown" to charge it.
Our cards that we use online have not been stolen EVER. Credit card theft USUALLY happens when people have your card IN HAND.
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Please refrain from name calling and loud brash behavior. Be sure not to make accusations and just state your opinions, experiences or facts and move on. If you don't know (for sure) about something, hold back on posting before reacting.
If anyone gets out of hand, we will be forced to unleash the Frog.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHgaz0UDIzreEoCZzTrCpdi9XqMU4_vEkKRu4zMZ9lX-dq2SIaRw)
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I have used Brad's products and have met him in person and he is one of the good guys. A standup, caring guy. When I order online I never send credit card info without the page being secure, Brad uses PayPal for this. The only information he asks for on his site is the same information anybody can get by looking your name up in the phone book, or having your business card in their hand. Hardly putting you in danger of identity theft. Not trying to start a fire storm or look for an argument, but I think we need to take care to look into the situation in full before we make accusations that can damage the hard earned respect of someone's business. I will be using Maverick Graphic for supplies in the future without hesitation.
Eric
couldn't have said it better myself. . .if "they" really want your info, "they" can get it. . and now back to me making money.
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Preacher using the 'F' word in Church (A must see) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d8fV7ONAxM#)
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What ever dude, your track record of negative posting on multiple boards speaks for it's self. Have a good one, I'm done with the childish crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a business to run and employees to tend to, this 5th grade back and forth stuff is ridiculous!
My track record of telling the truth about one douche bag basically is how you judge me? That's interesting since you are on a board that embraces nearly exactly what I stood up against. LOL.
As if someone is FORCING you to get involved in the back and forth. It takes 2 people to do that, so you are no more innocent than me. Seems like you are reaching, IMO you are probably just upset you made a wild statement about a unbeatable price that was beat already and I called you on it. A lot of us have a business to run and employees to tend to..... myself included.
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employees don't need tending to, it's called babysitting. ;)
I had to.
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I have used Brad's products and have met him in person and he is one of the good guys. A standup, caring guy. When I order online I never send credit card info without the page being secure, Brad uses PayPal for this. The only information he asks for on his site is the same information anybody can get by looking your name up in the phone book, or having your business card in their hand. Hardly putting you in danger of identity theft. Not trying to start a fire storm or look for an argument, but I think we need to take care to look into the situation in full before we make accusations that can damage the hard earned respect of someone's business. I will be using Maverick Graphic for supplies in the future without hesitation.
Eric
couldn't have said it better myself. . .if "they" really want your info, "they" can get it. . and now back to me making money.
And I have ordered from you Homer through your site...you have a security certificate on your site 8)
I agree to an extent that the basic information is readily visible on my business card, but if there were millions of spammers, scammers and weiner pill companies in my shop (like there are sniffing the airwaves of the internetzz) I wouldn't be handing them all business cards and saying, "call me!".
Apologies to Maverick and to those who were offended by my post. I was getting ready to order film today and thought of this thread, followed the two provided links, got mad because there were both insecure, and posted.
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Actually, that would make a great post in the business section.
How to make a secure e-commerce store. What to look out for.
Those post's here about security, would be valuable in that post.
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Actually, that would make a great post in the business section.
How to make a secure e-commerce store. What to look out for.
Those post's here about security, would be valuable in that post.
Fully agree with that!
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Let's be completely honest... there is almost NO ONE "sniffing" the internet for information.
There are TARGETED situations from time to time... but the vast amounts of 1's and 0's coming over the wire are just ridiculous to think that someone is catching information off of that, that is of any value.
It would be worse than suggesting that you go out and target those sub 12 pcs customers for your business. If spammers want information there are SOOOO many better ways to get that information than by sniffing an unencrypted website that has a form on it that you put your phone number and email on.
This is why places like DS and such take email addresses typed and convert them to images... so they can't be harvested. This is why people put 55 FIVE - Sixtynine 50 as phone numbers on craigslist. Because THAT is a method that spammers are using to harvest information. Something that is in PLAIN TEXT on a site formatted to LOOK like a phone number.
Example.
"This is what that same number looks like in binary:
555-6950"
is represented in binary here:
"01010100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110011 01100001 01101101 01100101 00100000 01101110 01110101 01101101 01100010 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101100 01101111 01101111 01101011 01110011 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00111010 00100000 00110101 00110101 00110101 00101101 00110110 00111001 00110101 00110000 00101110"
Did you spot the phone number? ;)
Vs a webcrawling script that grabs every page from a site and parses it for 7 or 10 digits back to back that might possibly be spaced out 3,3 and 4 or with hyphens or with periods. I could write a script in 5 minutes to parse that out of a page. VS sniffing gazillions of 1's and 0's and converting ALL of them to ASCII text and THEN parsing ALL of that data for that same information. Just not worth it for the spammer.
I could go door to door looking for a fresh Mango but it would be a WHOLE lot faster and easier just to go to the produce store around the corner. ;)
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Let's be completely honest... there is almost NO ONE "sniffing" the internet for information.
There are TARGETED situations from time to time... but the vast amounts of 1's and 0's coming over the wire are just ridiculous to think that someone is catching information off of that, that is of any value.
It would be worse than suggesting that you go out and target those sub 12 pcs customers for your business. If spammers want information there are SOOOO many better ways to get that information than by sniffing an unencrypted website that has a form on it that you put your phone number and email on.
This is why places like DS and such take email addresses typed and convert them to images... so they can't be harvested. This is why people put 55 FIVE - Sixtynine 50 as phone numbers on craigslist. Because THAT is a method that spammers are using to harvest information. Something that is in PLAIN TEXT on a site formatted to LOOK like a phone number.
Example.
"This is what that same number looks like in binary:
555-6950"
is represented in binary here:
"01010100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110011 01100001 01101101 01100101 00100000 01101110 01110101 01101101 01100010 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101100 01101111 01101111 01101011 01110011 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00111010 00100000 00110101 00110101 00110101 00101101 00110110 00111001 00110101 00110000 00101110"
Did you spot the phone number? ;)
Vs a webcrawling script that grabs every page from a site and parses it for 7 or 10 digits back to back that might possibly be spaced out 3,3 and 4 or with hyphens or with periods. I could write a script in 5 minutes to parse that out of a page. VS sniffing gazillions of 1's and 0's and converting ALL of them to ASCII text and THEN parsing ALL of that data for that same information. Just not worth it for the spammer.
I could go door to door looking for a fresh Mango but it would be a WHOLE lot faster and easier just to go to the produce store around the corner. ;)
Also very true.
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Damn, wtf did I miss today? I really don't like having to print 3K shirts every day, I can't keep up with my forum drama!!! And my F'ing back hurts. Got a new girl starting in the morning and a guy coming back from vacation so I'll be seeing y'all a s s holes tomorrow.
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([url]http://assets.denimblog.com/9/9d/9d6c69c6_thread-direction.jpeg[/url])
Ha that`s a good one and spot on as well.
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Anyway, I have ordered now from filmdirectonline.com. Good fast service, shipping abroad too and prices are not too bad either, especially if you consider I would still pay more if I would buy a comparable japanese product. Even with the shipping of US$150 included.
Cheers Bryan.
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Anyway, I have ordered now from filmdirectonline.com. Good fast service, shipping abroad too and prices are not too bad either, especially if you consider I would still pay more if I would buy a comparable japanese product. Even with the shipping of US$150 included.
Cheers Bryan.
Bryan is a stand up guy with good product. Great choice.
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This thread has been interesting to say the least, but I do appreciate those who pointed out a possible flaw in our website. It is still my belief that my site is secure with Paypal, and financial information is never in jeapordy. That being said, I do not know everything and I will speak to my web guy to see if additional security is needed. When someone uses a credit card, the information is not trasmitted over our site, and is never stored. We have never received a complaint about stolen information.
I'm thankful to all those who posted positive comments about Maverick Graphic Supply, as they are why we are in business. I have been in contact with some who had issues with our website, and we are all on the same page. I'm hopeful that all of us on these boards can work together as one, as it is tough out there. Also, please remember we carry a complete line of inkjet films. Some of our products are priced higher than others, and discounts are also applied. The price listed on the website is not necessarily the price a person pays. TSB members get a special discount by entering a code. I know film is a commodity, but it is impossible to always have the best price. Shorter delivery times, free freight, and other things mean a lot to poeple. I do try to meet as many of you in person as possible, and personal contact goe sa long way.
I'm sure if you put all of us in the same room and we didn't know anything about anyone, we would all get along. I hope everyone has a great weekend, and I hope to work with all of you in the future.
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I think Brad here has shown us why he is held in such a high esteem by his customers! 'wish there were more ppl like him running the businesses we all interact with on daily bases and are glad to have him as a member of our little corner of the interwebs.
If there are no objections, I'd like to lock this thread up as it has gone waaaay on a tangent and the issues raised here have already been moved to a different post (at least somebody said they were going to start a new topic). So if somebody has a reason why this should be dug back up, please PM me!
Otherwise, call Brad and order some films! (and no, he is not advertising here so we are not pimping his business!)
One of the three stoogies