TSB

screen printing => 4 Color and Simulated Process Printing => Topic started by: blue moon on May 22, 2012, 05:39:23 PM

Title: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: blue moon on May 22, 2012, 05:39:23 PM
We have a customer wanting this printed with metallic inks. I can possibly even come up with two or three shades of silver, but is it even worth the headache?

my thoughts:
metallic inks require coarse screens and will look like crap

possibly use liquid silver and add some black to create different shades. Would that work? Liquid silver should go through finer screens, but not sure how it would handle additional black.

foil is a no go as they want the different colors. Hmmm . . . could we do a halftone underbase and press the foil?

any thoughts?

pierre
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: Sbrem on May 22, 2012, 05:54:29 PM
What about the white? There's no white metallic I've seen; maybe a crystalina? Can you show them how it would look with traditional inks, white, 2 or 3 grays, a tiny bit of black, like printing chrome wheels? You might spend the time on the metallics  only to find it looks, well, not so good...

Steve

Artelf had some pretty good chrome effects, maybe he'll chime in?
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: blue moon on May 22, 2012, 05:56:29 PM
What about the white? There's no white metallic I've seen; maybe a crystalina? Can you show them how it would look with traditional inks, white, 2 or 3 grays, a tiny bit of black, like printing chrome wheels? You might spend the time on the metallics  only to find it looks, well, not so good...

Steve

Artelf had some pretty good chrome effects, maybe he'll chime in?

they are asking for a quote on both regular plastisol and silver ink. They are willing to pay more for the metallic, but I don't even know how to quote it!

pierre
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: Sbrem on May 22, 2012, 06:50:26 PM
I had a thought, how about a silver shimmer for one gray, and liquid silver (wilflex I think) for a different metallic? They have different finishes which might add to the effect, maybe even flash them and overprint on a shimmer or liquid silver with, well, I don't really know yet, these things come in spaced out pieces sometimes...

Steve

Anyway, just hit 11.5 hours, so I'm going home to eat, relax, and do some more art for stuff we need for the long weekend...
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: blue moon on May 22, 2012, 07:19:54 PM
I had a thought, how about a silver shimmer for one gray, and liquid silver (wilflex I think) for a different metallic? They have different finishes which might add to the effect, maybe even flash them and overprint on a shimmer or liquid silver with, well, I don't really know yet, these things come in spaced out pieces sometimes...

Steve

Anyway, just hit 11.5 hours, so I'm going home to eat, relax, and do some more art for stuff we need for the long weekend...

that's a good idea! possibly even print some gel over something else . . .

pierre
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: Screened Gear on May 22, 2012, 07:39:40 PM
Silver Shimmer is tintable. In offset printing they use silver ink and add whatever pantone ink you want to make it a metallic. This would work with our inks as well. Just make sure to use translucent inks. They may not be as shinny but they will have a metallic look to them. I have printed a shimmer with a 165 screen and got surprisingly good coverage. Not sure how a long run would go. Its really one of those jobs you need to take just to figure out if it can be done. Good luck.
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: ZooCity on May 22, 2012, 09:28:10 PM
Sep it normally to get the visual feel and then add in a clear, particle base, overprint with some shinies in there of your choice....or foil it selectively. 
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: Chadwick on May 22, 2012, 10:05:28 PM
Is the print actually metallic?
It could just be very well done very well through the art and seps..

*( kinda cheesy filter overkill, but whatever )

I realize what they ask for, but..I would think the metallics would look
wrong on a 2D shaded representation of a 3D object, as the art is what
is making all those reflections and such, not funky ink.

perhaps your customer is mistaken in what they actually want.
.02
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: Gilligan on May 22, 2012, 10:08:56 PM
I thought the pic was just a mock up.
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: Chadwick on May 22, 2012, 10:26:32 PM
I'm pretty sure it is, but I'm talking about this.
Yes, it's quick and dirty and the jpeg was uber low to begin with, but,

On black garments only, I see using:
- White
- Lt gray
- medium gray with a blue tint, for simplicities sake
- and a dark gray with a blue tint
( if you want to go overboard )

Substitue the grey for metallic, thinks might look weird.

Just throwin some thoughts your way.
Cheers
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: tonypep on May 23, 2012, 06:55:55 AM
Here's the deal Pierre. Liquid silver and many metallics and shimmer are indeed tintable. The best way to tint is with............anyone?
Also consider the clear foil I would add $1.00 for either could go down to .75
Ok I'll spare the suspense, you tint with process inks, especially process black for blk/wht tonal work. Try 45 LPI
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: blue moon on May 23, 2012, 09:04:59 AM
Here's the deal Pierre. Liquid silver and many metallics and shimmer are indeed tintable. The best way to tint is with............anyone?
Also consider the clear foil I would add $1.00 for either could go down to .75
Ok I'll spare the suspense, you tint with process inks, especially process black for blk/wht tonal work. Try 45 LPI

Tony to the rescue!!!

I was about to call Wilflex and have a chat with them this morning, but you just saved me the trouble. Foil would not work as we are still limited to plastisol.  Since I would have to buy liquid silver, we'll add at least $1 per shirt, possibly more. 'gotta make the call now and find out what's to going rate for a quart of this stuff. . .

pierre
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: tonypep on May 23, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
No problem buddy......the obvious reason for the process tinting is that their transparency allows the metallic properties to show through. You may have to sniff around for quarts, Nazdar only sells it to me in gals but I believe other distributors will break it down. Last gal I purchased was $120 I believe. So tint with care!
tp
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: Colin on May 23, 2012, 08:48:43 PM
Yea, whatever you choose to tint with, make sure it has no white in it.  The white will cloud it very very quickly.  Pigments are great, mixing system colors are great, again, as long as they are clean clear colors.  Process inks work great because of this.

Also, be very careful about cure times... The silver ink reflects heat just like reflective inks do.... it will easily take 1.5 times as long to cure because of this.  And don't ask about flash times... ;)

If you want to over print a clear or gel... that's another topic...

Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: mk162 on May 24, 2012, 08:46:51 AM
Tony, I actually knew to tint it with process colors as they are the most transparent colors.
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: blue moon on May 24, 2012, 09:04:46 AM
Colin,

I have some pigment concentrates for the waterbased inks (Matsui). It's just liquid pigment of some sort. Could I add that in instead of the process ink? We are talking a gram or two at the most. Could such a small qty mess up the plastisol bad enough to cause problems?

pierre
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: tonypep on May 24, 2012, 09:27:44 AM
Yikes NO! Oil and water don't mix.
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: blue moon on May 24, 2012, 03:28:48 PM
it figures . . .

Thanx Tony! You are GRRRREEAAATTT!



(http://www.interactive.org/images/games/tony_the_tiger-lg.jpg)

pierre
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: Colin on May 24, 2012, 03:36:15 PM
Yea, like Tony said, do not mix the two :)

Huzza for East Coasters getting up earlier then me ;)

When you get in the Silver ink, do a simple print cure test.  If you can get away with it Pierre, flash the print just before it comes off the press so It goes into the dryer hotter.  This will help with cure times.
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: blue moon on May 24, 2012, 04:01:26 PM
Yea, like Tony said, do not mix the two :)

Huzza for East Coasters getting up earlier then me ;)

When you get in the Silver ink, do a simple print cure test.  If you can get away with it Pierre, flash the print just before it comes off the press so It goes into the dryer hotter.  This will help with cure times.

thanx Colin,

I knew you'd catch up with the east coast! 'was actually surprised Tony beat you to it!

pierre
Title: Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
Post by: tonypep on May 24, 2012, 04:27:33 PM
I'm on Central time and my key is in the door no later than 6:00 am so thats the reason I am getting sneak peeks. Usually get to get out at 4:00 sharp right after night shift shows up though.