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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: whitewater on April 30, 2012, 03:57:28 PM
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How do you decide where to put the compressor from the press?
is there a distance thats best?
I think ive seen some of you others on here where its in a different room?
I'm getting a rotary screw one...but not sure where to put it in regards to the press..
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doesn't matter. I would keep it closer to the electrical panel so you have to worry less about voltage drop over the run and you won't have go up in wire size. You will end up running pipe all over the shop anyway, we did. We used compressed air in lots of places. Put the compressor out of the way.
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How do you decide where to put the compressor from the press?
is there a distance thats best?
I think ive seen some of you others on here where its in a different room?
I'm getting a rotary screw one...but not sure where to put it in regards to the press..
I have a rotary screw, and its probably 4ft from my press. Its quiet. The only annoying thing is the auto blow off valve is really loud if you are not expecting it.
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Same as Brandt except mine is piston and loud as hell. No space to put it anywhere else or build a room around it so I deal with it.
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Chk with the mfg on ventilation clearance so you are not overheating the compressor. This is often overlooked.
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Same as Brandt except mine is piston and loud as hell. No space to put it anywhere else or build a room around it so I deal with it.
Ouch, that's got to be rough... our piston compressors are in the neighboring metal shop (non-climate controlled)... even with all doors closed it's loud enough I can't imagine working with it in the same room. We used to just roll it in and out of the main shop before I said screw it, I'm jamming it in the small shop somewhere. Now I have two in there and check valves on the way so I can run them both. :)
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I think they are best caged OUTSIDE if possible, I couldnt at my new shop so I put it as far away in another room that I could.
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it doesn't really matter how far away your compressor is from point of use as long as the pipe is properly sized.
you could easily have a compressor several rooms away with a receiver tank closer in .
Here is a link to pipe sizing by flow & distance
http://www.airheads.net/tech/techinfo/airline.html (http://www.airheads.net/tech/techinfo/airline.html)
the home page with lost of technical info on compressors
http://www.airheads.net/ (http://www.airheads.net/)
mooseman
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I guess nobody has discussed what happens when a tank pops. you don't want it 4 feet from you, 40 feet at least you have a chance of shrapnel missing you.
Usually buildings don't stop them when they burst either. Make sure you keep an eye on your tank for cracks and weak spots.
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Tanks don't explode like an IED, they crack and leak, sometimes pop actually very mellow dramatic. There is no where near the pressure needed to make them explode.
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Tanks don't explode like an IED, they crack and leak, sometimes pop actually very mellow dramatic. There is no where near the pressure needed to make them explode.
one of my 120 gallon tanks developed a pinhole leak - i had to junk it and get a replacement. i called up the compressor company and they sold me a used tank.
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OK, that's not what my compressor guy told me. He said to check the tank fairly regularly for cracks. He's seen them rip through walls. 120-180 psi is a lot of pressure, that can and does have the potential energy to rip chunks out of a tank.
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I drive my truck on the street with 175psi in the air tank that runs my air valves.
Burst pressure is 600psi on the tank, the compressors can not develop that much pressure, so no problem.
Same with these air tanks in the shop, they have a burst pressure way over that of the pressure they are being run with. It's unlikely one would burst. But they are made by humans it's possible.
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MK do you use my buddy JC for compressor maint/install? He's the most knowledgeable guy in the field that I'll probably ever meet
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Jesus Christ? I would bet he would be knowledgeable, but why would he stop at air compressors?
I don't, I use Al, he's good and he gets here quick. Can you PM me JC's contact info? I might talk to him about a few things in the shop.
And yeah, compressors never explode...this one is smaller than ours...
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570 (http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570)
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If you believe that an air tank can't or won't explode you had better reeducate yourself before you get hurt. Most people people don't realize that tanks rust from the inside out and you don't know it until the tank cracks or pops like a balloon. I have witnessed this first hand at a body shop I worked at in high school. The place had 2 compressors and one of the tanks ruptured and knocked down the block wall barrier it was behind. That amount of air at that volume and pressure is extremely dangerous. There was really no shrapnel from the tank itself but pieces of the wall went through a lot of car windows and put a lot of dents in the surrounding vehicles. It was enough force to launch a person pretty far if you were standing near it.
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Very true! Last year a guy in our town was killed at a car wash in the compressor room when the tank exploded. Its no joke. Makes me want to buy a Brown when i think about it.
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it makes me want to sink cement filled parking posts every 12" around my compressor.
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IF you have the cash you can get them sonic tested for thickness around the botton where moist of the water every few years just to be safe. Ours is in the back corner of the shop too. We would lose our eardrums from the pressure wave if that thing ever went off.
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Jesus Christ? I would bet he would be knowledgeable, but why would he stop at air compressors?
I don't, I use Al, he's good and he gets here quick. Can you PM me JC's contact info? I might talk to him about a few things in the shop.
And yeah, compressors never explode...this one is smaller than ours...
[url]http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570[/url] ([url]http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570[/url])
Yup its for sure possible, look at the condition of the tank on the outside, of course the inside is going to be worse.
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Jesus Christ? I would bet he would be knowledgeable, but why would he stop at air compressors?
I don't, I use Al, he's good and he gets here quick. Can you PM me JC's contact info? I might talk to him about a few things in the shop.
And yeah, compressors never explode...this one is smaller than ours...
[url]http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570[/url] ([url]http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570[/url])
Yup its for sure possible, look at the condition of the tank on the outside, of course the inside is going to be worse.
And it did blow out on the bottom... no shrapnel would be really flying anywhere... granted, I'm sure it made a mess and ruckus... and no, I'd have no desire to be within 20' of that thing when it went. ;)
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Shrapnel will fly, look at the way it tore it open. Also, there are usually blocks at the fee and other things around a compressor, some of that is bound to fly around.
I would NEVER want to test this theory, but we should all write in to mythbusters and see if they can blow one up for us.
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Very true! Last year a guy in our town was killed at a car wash in the compressor room when the tank exploded. Its no joke. Makes me want to buy a Brown when i think about it.
Tanks exploding on a compressor are almost non existent. Finding someone injured by a tank rupture would be even more rare. You have way better luck winning the Mega Lotto X10 than this happening. Just a FYI!
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Here in CA we are required to get a permit for the tanks. They send their guy out and he measures the thickness of the tank. They have a safe thickness and when it falls below that he will not issue a permit. Permit I believe is for 3 years then they reinspect and issue you another one.
Gotta be a reason for this and its gotta be that they have a chance of exploding and taking someone out.
Jon
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Here in CA we are required to get a permit for the tanks. They send their guy out and he measures the thickness of the tank. They have a safe thickness and when it falls below that he will not issue a permit. Permit I believe is for 3 years then they reinspect and issue you another one.
Gotta be a reason for this and its gotta be that they have a chance of exploding and taking someone out.
Jon
It's called a tax. That's the real reason for it. LOL
They are taxing yo ass.
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Very true! Last year a guy in our town was killed at a car wash in the compressor room when the tank exploded. Its no joke. Makes me want to buy a Brown when i think about it.
Tanks exploding on a compressor are almost non existent. Finding someone injured by a tank rupture would be even more rare. You have way better luck winning the Mega Lotto X10 than this happening. Just a FYI!
No doubt that it is very rare but in the same sense rare means it could happen. Now will it happen? That is going to depend on your maintenance of the compressor. The case I pointed out was from poor maintenance and having oil blow by into the tank. Very rare if you know what you are doing but it can happen.
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Very true! Last year a guy in our town was killed at a car wash in the compressor room when the tank exploded. Its no joke. Makes me want to buy a Brown when i think about it.
Tanks exploding on a compressor are almost non existent. Finding someone injured by a tank rupture would be even more rare. You have way better luck winning the Mega Lotto X10 than this happening. Just a FYI!
No doubt that it is very rare but in the same sense rare means it could happen. Now will it happen? That is going to depend on your maintenance of the compressor. The case I pointed out was from poor maintenance and having oil blow by into the tank. Very rare if you know what you are doing but it can happen.
For sure.
You can also be struck by lightning, hit by a SEMI while inside a building, win the Mega Millions 2 times in a month, and of course you can be hit by lightning and a SEMI while inside the lottery office claiming your second winning ticket. 8)
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I don't know how often a tank explodes... but I'd be willing to bet that plastic pipe accidents are more prevalent and more deadly.
I've run into several folks who refuse to believe that the pressure ratings on PVC pipe are only valid for fluids.
It gets brittle.... and it breaks easily.
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Our compressor sits out back, maybe 10 ft. with a block wall between it and the press, you can barely hear it run unless the back door is open up.
Darryl
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I agree that using inappropriate pvc pipe for air lines probably injures more than tank kerplosions.
On the topic somewhat- what sort of air line do you all use? I'm thinking I want to run pex or a pex-like, air specific pipe so I don't get contam from black pipe rusting and can put a drop down in easily wherever I like.
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Just another FYI--get an auto drain for your tank, and you won't have to worry about you or your employees forgetting to drain the tank, or it destroying itself from the inside out. They're cheap, and reasonably easy to install.
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Just another FYI--get an auto drain for your tank, and you won't have to worry about you or your employees forgetting to drain the tank, or it destroying itself from the inside out. They're cheap, and reasonably easy to install.
Rockin' one on mine!
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Just another FYI--get an auto drain for your tank, and you won't have to worry about you or your employees forgetting to drain the tank, or it destroying itself from the inside out. They're cheap, and reasonably easy to install.
thank you
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How are you going to get air from the compressor to the press? Pipe, hose, PVC?
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we use garden hoses and aquarium air lines. it looks goofy, but it does the job. ;)
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I have an auto bleeder on mine too. I guess I should play the lottery since I have already personally seen a tank let go.
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I agree that using inappropriate pvc pipe for air lines probably injures more than tank kerplosions.
On the topic somewhat- what sort of air line do you all use? I'm thinking I want to run pex or a pex-like, air specific pipe so I don't get contam from black pipe rusting and can put a drop down in easily wherever I like.
1" copper
i have some "safe type" quick release placed where needed. the safety feature vents the downstream air from the air hose. its then able to be disconnected without the hose whipping around.
i also have cutoff ball valves that essentially do the same thing - vents the air downstream of the valve and has a place where a padlock can lock the air out - its part of our lockout tagout program.
the auto drains are great - i have two. one is on a horizontal 120g tank - i placed it on the lowest part of the tank and propped up the opposite side a few inches. the other drain is on a prefilter before the air chiller.
the auto drains shouldnt cost more than $100 each.
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I have an auto bleeder on mine too. I guess I should play the lottery since I have already personally seen a tank let go.
Not being disrespectfulJBLUE but they rarely explode Usually rusted out tanks will start to leak way before something drastic happens. I worked for a compressor rebuilder and the only tank I saw that exploded was one that was being welded with oil residue inside of it.
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I think you're right, Rich, they usually develop a leak first, but frankly some people don't care for their stuff and would possibly ignore a leak. I bet they are rare, but they do happen and they do have the potential to kill. It's a good thing to maintain them just like other equipment.
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we use garden hoses and aquarium air lines. it looks goofy, but it does the job. ;)
No way, me too!
But seriously. I think copper would be best but the price, jeez...and all that sweating. These look nice but are probably just overpriced, glorified, reinforced nylon tubing:
http://www.rapidairproducts.com/maxline.asp (http://www.rapidairproducts.com/maxline.asp)
And this stuff is rigid:
http://www.johnguest.co.uk/Home/applications/air-and-pneumatics/Air/Accessories.aspx (http://www.johnguest.co.uk/Home/applications/air-and-pneumatics/Air/Accessories.aspx)
I think it's more about the fittings, or maybe the quality of the fittings to be specific, if you wanted to go with any flexible or plastic tubing that can appropriately hold the pressure.
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I have an auto bleeder on mine too. I guess I should play the lottery since I have already personally seen a tank let go.
Not being disrespectfulJBLUE but they rarely explode Usually rusted out tanks will start to leak way before something drastic happens. I worked for a compressor rebuilder and the only tank I saw that exploded was one that was being welded with oil residue inside of it.
Explode is the wrong term. The tank I saw let go split. It was a big split. Not an explosion. It was pretty impressive.
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Railroad tank car vacuum implosion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz95_VvTxZM#)
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i like copper because i dont need any proprietary tools to put it together.
its a bit expensive, but the tools to assemble are cheap. plus you will have the tools to fix any other copper pipe in your shop (or home).
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PEX looks cool but couldn't find it in time locally.
I ended up using all rubber. Easy to work with, and it comes with me when I move!
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we actually run black pipe with line filters. works fine. and durable as hell
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I was thinking of just coupling lengths of the regular rubber as it's comparable cost wise and yeah, easy to move around or repurpose.
The thing about black iron is that it's going to corrode unless you have oil in the air and if you have oil in the air you need to separate that out too before it exits. I totally get why it's used a lot and how you simply filter out the junk at the point of use but it seems like it would put a lot of stress on your filtration after 5 or 10 yrs.
Zelko- 1" copper sounds huge, that's ID? you must be running a massive floor there.
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We ran all copper 3/4. Spendy but worth it.
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Am I doing something wrong by just running regular rubber airlines? I hear everyone is using copper/sprinkler lines/PVC and everything. What is wrong with a manifold and a few runs of rubber 3/8 ths hose? I run it all at ceiling height and have drops where needed.
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Am I doing something wrong by just running regular rubber airlines? I hear everyone is using copper/sprinkler lines/PVC and everything. What is wrong with a manifold and a few runs of rubber 3/8 ths hose? I run it all at ceiling height and have drops where needed.
You are not going to get the volume you need through a 3/8 line to run an all air machine. Not only do you need a certain air pressure but you also need a certain volume of air to drive your machine if its not servo driven. For air locks only 3/8 is fine. If I am not mistaken your press is all servo driven so you should be fine. If its air heads and air index you should be having a severe supply problem.
Using PVC pipe is stupid. It is a time bomb waiting to go off.
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My press must not use that much air. I have never had any issues even when running 8 heads. That does make sense that if your using alot of air you need a bigger supply line. Learn something every day.
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We run 1 inch thick hydraulic line.
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Galve is best, since the water can be in the air line. No pvc did worked till it exploded in pieces. after 12 years.
Shane
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I,m using PVC sch 40 thick wall for all our air lines 1", have not had a problem yet, and I drain our tank every week.
D
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Zelko- 1" copper sounds huge, that's ID? you must be running a massive floor there.
Four autos, two folders, ink pumps, spray pumps for reclaim...
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If you can afford to spend a little money, I'd look at pipe from Legris. It's a polished aluminum pipe. Super easy to use. I ran my entire shop in one day. Three autos, a manual, pumps and tables and other equipment. A tube cutter and deburring tool is about all you need. You can add drops, move pipe, reuse, re route, etc. Not cheap, but super simple. Looks nice, too.
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The compressor in the thread below did not “explode” but ruptured. I will admit I have never seen one do that. Have had a few crack or blow the welded drain out the bottom or have an inspection cover blow out because it wasn’t secured properly on larger tanks. Some of them we welded back up if offshore to finish the job and or get home. Most boats I have worked on had at least two usually three of four 200 or more gallon air receivers in the engine room and never encountered more then mentioned above keeping in mind even with all the vibration and movement on board. Actually seen more compressors and engines throw rods then have trouble with a receiver.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570 (http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=455570#post455570)
By the looks of the out side and what can be seen on the inside the compressor has been abused. Actually looks like a portable unit that had wheels on the back at one time, surely drug around, up and down stairs, rolled, etc. This was a home unit that was way beyond its service life, never drained and full of rust. The unit was built like a beer can with light gauge steel. The rupture started the same place they always crack where water lays and mounting feet attach. Vibration from running starts a small crack which is usually heard or seen long before anything like that ever happens. I am willing to bet there was no shrapnel from the rupture. The injuries to the unlucky guy and damage to the surrounding area were due to the compressor lunging upward at him from rapid decompression, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Now think about the circumstances surrounding the incident and how unlikely it is to happen in anyone’s shop. I am going to assume you would have purchased an industrial grade compressor built a little heavier. Whit that said even if a crack started the better built tank would leak and the compressor would not be able to keep up with rate of loss or would cycle more frequently letting you know something was up. The heavier gauge steel would be strong enough to rapidly decompress before it would rip open. I will also assume you have an auto drain or manually drain the tank daily. I leave the drain cracked open all the time and completely drain the tank at the end of every day. If the tank is properly maintained it should give you a life time of service. I have personally inspected, UT and preformed hydro testing on tanks over 40 years old and never had trouble. I would also hope someone would do an internal visual inspection at least every other year or a hydro every 5 years. A major factor in the damage done was the compressor was not secured, free to move around. Had it been a larger unit bolted to the floor I really don’t think it would have done anywhere near the damage.
Reeducating myself would be a little extreme at this stage of my life although I do try to learn something new every day. I have been in far more dangerous situations and work environments over the past 25 years then mentioned here or anything someone may encounter in a print shop let alone most people can fathom, still alive and have all the part I was born with. Keep in mind this is my second redo. I have paid my dues in the maritime industry where I started at the bottom and left the industry as Port Engineer for a major tug boat company. I still do consulting, inspections, minor repairs and testing on vessels for owners and contractors. Actually did welding inspections and testing on a 1k gallon lube oil tank and hull the last few nights.
Everyone is all wound up about an event that is less likely to happen then getting hit by lighting and eaten by a shark in the same day. Everyone drives to and from work every day and who knows what other extreme activity with out thinking twice about it. Your more likely to get hit with a pallet on the auto or blowing your dryer up by running a can of spray adhesive through it then the compressor letting go. There are so many other hazards and things to prevent injury in and around our shops and every day lives that are ignored daily. Do you check the fire extinguishers, dates and supplies in the first aid kit? How about the safety devices on your equipment, they all work?
Go with black pipe, filter before the press, cheap, easy and reliable. If the chiller is working there will be no moisture in the pipe to create rust and even if it does rust it will still last for a life time and the filters will protect the equipment.
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This thread just gave me an idea. Not that I'm worried about my tanks exploding, but it would be
piece of mind to have them tested.
Buddy of mine works for a rope access inspection company that does a lot of work at refineries.
Any idea what type of test would be best? Ultrasonic I'm guessing?
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We always did an internl visual yearly looking for a build up of scale in the bottom. If excisive rust or scale was found we would audio gauge the tanks or hydro at the request of the inspector. Every five years there was a hydro test conducted at the rated test pressure stamped in the tank for five minuits or if the tank was not ASME it would be tested at 1.25 times the rated presure (150 psi tank would be tested to 188 psi).
These were required to remain compliant.
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We have ours in a small room. Just put a muffler on the big sucker and now I can turn it on without killing my ears. Runs 50% quieter now too.
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We have ours in a small room. Just put a muffler on the big sucker and now I can turn it on without killing my ears. Runs 50% quieter now too.
You happen to have a pic of that?
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We have ours in a small room. Just put a muffler on the big sucker and now I can turn it on without killing my ears. Runs 50% quieter now too.
You happen to have a pic of that?
I can snap one and post it up for ya.
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b344/garu45/7f976785.jpg)
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Thanks! I'm gonna have to do that with mine for sure. Did you just piece something together or is something sold like that?
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I have the same muffler on our compressor but ten times larger personally it does not seem to help much.
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Thanks! I'm gonna have to do that with mine for sure. Did you just piece something together or is something sold like that?
We have a maintenance company that does all our compressor maintenance, gas, etc. I'm pretty sure he pieced it together. I don't think it was specially for our compressor.
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It's likely all NPT pipe connections--we have one and had to put together a few pieces to get it up and running. Didn't help a load, but considering everything was like $75, it was worth it. Went from a drum roll to a dull roar. :)
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I wonder how much a difference just plumbing the intake away from you it would make.
In Gerry's case he might could just plumb it up high and any muffling effect would be a bonus.
But you are still gonna have that piston next to your head. Maybe Brian can chime in on such a topic.
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I wonder how much a difference just plumbing the intake away from you it would make.
In Gerry's case he might could just plumb it up high and any muffling effect would be a bonus.
But you are still gonna have that piston next to your head. Maybe Brian can chime in on such a topic.
The muffler helps on the exhaust sound but it does nothing for the engine running sounds at all, stick your head under a hood of a car when running and see what I mean. I have had our muffler off while running it does make some difference mostly changes the over all sound but the decibal level still seems to be about the same.
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Engine sound does come from intake side as well.
That's how a lot of those honda boys get that terrible sound out of their car... they take out the airbox which had some muffling properties.
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Engine sound does come from intake side as well.
That's how a lot of those honda boys get that terrible sound out of their car... they take out the airbox which had some muffling properties.
Or you can disconnect the hose and wrap pantyhose around it haha. Thats what we used to do. Most of them install a cone style filter that drops past the radiator and sticks out the bottom. Used to have a friend that had a neon that would beat mustangs and trans-ams by 2.5-3 car lengths in a drag. It was ported and polished to though.
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Yeah, Dodge actually came out with the SRT-4 neon that was wicked fast. The neon name and body style was awful, they should have changed the name and updated the style a bit.
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Yeah, Dodge actually came out with the SRT-4 neon that was wicked fast. The neon name and body style was awful, they should have changed the name and updated the style a bit.
isnt that the PT Crusier ?
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nope, but the PT is built on the same frame and same factory.
the SRT-4 was turbocharged.
Chevy did the same thing with the cobalt. IMHO it's a bad idea to make a turbo version of a crappy sub compact you already have. Come out with a new model for the turbo version.
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nope, but the PT is built on the same frame and same factory.
the SRT-4 was turbocharged.
Chevy did the same thing with the cobalt. IMHO it's a bad idea to make a turbo version of a crappy sub compact you already have. Come out with a new model for the turbo version.
The cobalt was actually supercharged. Still a turd though.
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so was the Neon SRT4.
i know, i have a friend with one and she paid like 30+K for it. Wow, good job, you bought a POS platform with a turbo.
for that price I would be riding in something a little nicer.
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WHAT!!!! 30k for a neon lol. Why not get an EVO or STI.
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No, 30K for the cobalt. I think by the time you figured interest, she paid over $35k for it. It still looked like a stupid cobalt...with a spoiler and rims. Whoo-hoo
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for less than 30k you could buy a used Audi S6...