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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: ericheartsu on March 21, 2012, 02:37:50 PM
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I'm about to print a 7 color WoW print, and i'm just wondering what everyone's opinion is!
Anyone have a brand that they find works particularly well?
I've used the QCM ink before and that was alright, just looking to see if there is something else i should try!
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we have found it's not so much the ink, but more so the screens. nice tight rollers are where it's at.
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The ink has to be formulated for wet on wet printing.
The XOLB inks from QCM are not formulated for wet on wet printing. The WOW series is. Each ink company has a series that is NOT designed for much wet on wet printing.
Make sure what you are using is formulated for wet on wet printing.
And as Homer said, nice tight screens and higher mesh counts make it a lot easier to succeed.
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I have been happy with qcm WOW series. 156 mesh and higher. Light to dark or small to large print sequence as well helps.
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+1 Homer on good tension on rollers, for sure. A smooth print side on your stencil will help as well.
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Any insight on how the S-Thread prints wet on wet? I know the tensions aren't are high, but I'm highly considering just using s-thread from now on.
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Also depending on the image black does not always have to go last. In certain images (sim process ones for example) black can yield a better print in the middle instead of dead last. Of course it depends on how you sep it though. Colin helped us a few years ago with this issue.
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Any insight on how the S-Thread prints wet on wet? I know the tensions aren't are high, but I'm highly considering just using s-thread from now on.
I think you should go higher in mesh count than you usually do if you're going to go with S thread, but I haven't done a whole lot of wow with the S threads.
I like the union ultrasoft and QCM WOW series. I'd add some qcm softee base or wilflex fashion base to whatever you're using. They are designed for wow but they need just a bit more base, at least the qcm does. The union is fine as it is.
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Union Ultrasoft is very nice wow.
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Any insight on how the S-Thread prints wet on wet? I know the tensions aren't are high, but I'm highly considering just using s-thread from now on.
I think you should go higher in mesh count than you usually do if you're going to go with S thread, but I haven't done a whole lot of wow with the S threads.
I like the union ultrasoft and QCM WOW series. I'd add some qcm softee base or wilflex fashion base to whatever you're using. They are designed for wow but they need just a bit more base, at least the qcm does. The union is fine as it is.
Hey Alan, I would recommend for QCM either their halftone base or their WOW base instead of the softee base. If you can still find the halftone base that is. They say it was the same thing as the WOW base they now offer but I swear it was not. But the WOW base they have does a way better job at it in my opinion than the softee base as that particular item was not meant for wow. It can be used as we have done it in the past but you will get way better results with the wow base. Just my opinion
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I typically use the qcm WoW inks. Although i do use XOLB inks, i wont be for this particular print.
I also use super tight newman frames, but was hoping to hear feedback on other inks. but if QCM WoW is the best i'll stick with that!
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For us it is not so much the ink. We use a combination of higher mesh and decent tension screens.
The screens do not need to be in the high end of manufacturer recommendations. Just enough so the squeegee pressure does not distort the mesh. So, the S mesh will print fine WOW as long as you are at least in the midpoint of mfg recommended tension.
We used Wilflex GNS, Wlifelx SSV, and other ink and we have had good luck with WOW.
Mark
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I think that it needs to pointed out that as far as WOW printing goes,super high tension screens merely reduce the amount of ink offset to each subsequent screen, reducing the muddy blur that, in varying degrees, eventually occurs where colors meet.
Bottom line, any halfway decent screens, with any halfway decent wow ink is capable of making good WOW prints.
When I worked in a largish shop, we ran wooden frames and Union Ultrasoft inks and won more than one award. Years before special soft bases were available, we cut with Union "Clear for Metallics" .
This is not to, in any way, knock the new technology or the state of the art equipment favored by so many, but just sayin'. WOW is not a big deal as long as a press hold register.
In fact, the eventual slight spread of the wet offset can actually sometimes help minor defects in the print.
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Hey Alan, I would recommend for QCM either their halftone base or their WOW base instead of the softee base. If you can still find the halftone base that is. They say it was the same thing as the WOW base they now offer but I swear it was not. But the WOW base they have does a way better job at it in my opinion than the softee base as that particular item was not meant for wow. It can be used as we have done it in the past but you will get way better results with the wow base. Just my opinion
Damn, I was told by a guy at qcm that the softee was the best thing to use to turn the xolb ink into WOW inks and help any ink to become better at wow printing. He told me that the WOW series was xolb with softee base. I remember having a batch of softee base and it was fairly thick, almost like soft hand base and the next gallon I got in was basically like water and wasn't remotely close in consistency and body as the first gallon I got. I really like the qcm inks but the drastic changes from batch to batch is hard to deal with.
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I really like the qcm inks but the drastic changes from batch to batch is hard to deal with.
I'm all but done with QCM for this exact reason...
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I hope that Rutland's purchase will end those problems so we can all trust the products again. When the formulas are right, they are fantastic. The xolb is badass for dark shirts and the wow is perfect for every other application. Come on Rutland, get this s h i t straightened out with your new sister company.
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Hey Alan, I would recommend for QCM either their halftone base or their WOW base instead of the softee base. If you can still find the halftone base that is. They say it was the same thing as the WOW base they now offer but I swear it was not. But the WOW base they have does a way better job at it in my opinion than the softee base as that particular item was not meant for wow. It can be used as we have done it in the past but you will get way better results with the wow base. Just my opinion
Damn, I was told by a guy at qcm that the softee was the best thing to use to turn the xolb ink into WOW inks and help any ink to become better at wow printing. He told me that the WOW series was xolb with softee base. I remember having a batch of softee base and it was fairly thick, almost like soft hand base and the next gallon I got in was basically like water and wasn't remotely close in consistency and body as the first gallon I got. I really like the qcm inks but the drastic changes from batch to batch is hard to deal with.
Hey Alan, I'm telling ya' Colin would be the man to answer this question. He knows all the ins and outs of these inks in question. But just in our shop's experience you will notice a big jump in print quality from the Softee to the WOW base. And less buildup to no buildup on the back of the screens.. But yeah, the drastic changes are hard to deal with
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Hey Alan, I would recommend for QCM either their halftone base or their WOW base instead of the softee base. If you can still find the halftone base that is. They say it was the same thing as the WOW base they now offer but I swear it was not. But the WOW base they have does a way better job at it in my opinion than the softee base as that particular item was not meant for wow. It can be used as we have done it in the past but you will get way better results with the wow base. Just my opinion
Damn, I was told by a guy at qcm that the softee was the best thing to use to turn the xolb ink into WOW inks and help any ink to become better at wow printing. He told me that the WOW series was xolb with softee base. I remember having a batch of softee base and it was fairly thick, almost like soft hand base and the next gallon I got in was basically like water and wasn't remotely close in consistency and body as the first gallon I got. I really like the qcm inks but the drastic changes from batch to batch is hard to deal with.
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Hey Alan,
I don't know who told you that the WOW inks are basically the XOLB with Softee added to them, but that info is FAR from correct.
They are both different chemistry. There are several components in XOLB that you do not have in WOW. Components that help with opacity, flashing, and ink "support" that are not designed for wet on wet printing. That is why the XOLB is an amazing manual/flashing ink. Also why it does matter what ink you use for long term wet on wet printing success.Now, if you add either the WOW halftone base, that Brandon suggested, or the softee base to an XOLB ink, you WILL extend the length of time the ink can print wet on wet before you begin to see build up on the back of succeeding screens. Think of it as adding some WD-40 to your ink to lube it up before you wrestle with it ;)
As for which base to add to the ink: If you want to keep the same ink consistancy, use the halftone base. If you want the ink to relax a bit more, drive into the garment and feel softer, use the Softee base.
Just remember: The "softer" or "more relaxed" an ink is, the more the ink will spread out and create a bigger dot gain i.e. the dot shape will not stay the same, it will look mushy. Also, if you happen to print/flash/print a design with an ink like that, the edges will not remain as sharp and crisp.
As a nod to the higher tension recomendations: Higher tension screens do not allow much contact with the ink on the garment resulting in lower amounts of ink pick up, as Frog mentioned.
Alan, I remember the batch of softee you are talking about. Has Rutland been any more consistant in your opinion?
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I agree with brandon regarding qcm, wow clear base is the way to go. I used to keep tons of that stuff on hand.
You can cut just a little softee in the wow base too. Straight softee as extender works but will not hold dot shape as well and will under perform by comparison over a ub especially. I also think the softee can be overly glossy in situations like this.
As most of you know this is speaking from past experience, we ditched qcm a year ago. No time to deal with the inconsistencies.
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Ok jinx, colin just said the exact same thing pretty much.
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Lol Chris. Guess I owe you a soda then :)
I agree on the softee add that you mentioned. When choosing an ink that has been extended with Softee Base, then printing that ink over a base plate, it can have a higher gloss than an unmodified ink will.
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fwiw, I am trying to order the WOW halftone base and my rep at Axiom says it's discontinued. Does the qcm 109 print better wow than the 158 unmodified? If I add softee to it will it gain a little more performance on the cleaning off screens mid run?
I had a run of butt-reg 5 color shirts with 3 shades of grey that I made from 158, softee and touch of black, and I had to clean the bottoms of the screens every 40 shirts or so. I was running two flashes to try to control it but still had issues with wow screens.
Thanks!