TSB

screen printing => Tips and Tricks to Share (Please don't ask questions here) => Topic started by: T Shirt Farmer on February 28, 2012, 05:02:45 PM

Title: Help with Foil
Post by: T Shirt Farmer on February 28, 2012, 05:02:45 PM

Looking for some tips on foil application, I was experimenting  the other day and was not very successful. Foil did not adhere very well.

I have heard some use Plastisol ink and some use foil adhesive, why use one over the other?
do you need a heavy deposit of ink?
Temp, time and pressure for heat press?
Do you need to let the garment cool before removing foil?

Any tips are much appreciated
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: jasonl on February 28, 2012, 05:20:34 PM
i tried with adhesive and plastisol.  Plastisol works better for me, and i already have it on hand.  I let it cool for about 10 secs.  med. to heavy pressure for about 20 seconds.  Time and pressure is the key to getting it right.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Orion on February 28, 2012, 05:21:43 PM
The most success I have had with foil is using foil adhesive. I prefer the adhesive trasfer over a direct print because it gives you a smoother surface to apply the foil to. As with any transfer application your temp/pressure/time is very important. I apply the transfer @350f for ten sconds with medium pressure.  The foil is then applied @ 350 for 3 seconds medium pressure.The garment must be completely cooled before removing the foil. Go to Union Ink website to get all the specifics on the transfers and the foil. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: jasonl on February 28, 2012, 05:23:26 PM
also if you use plastisol, use a color similar to your foil for best results.  thats important.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Binkspot on February 28, 2012, 05:24:40 PM
We use the plastisol and works fine. You do have to lay down a smooth layer of ink, if too thin and the weave of the shirt is showing the foil will not stick in the valleys and you will have a speckled effect.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Fresh Baked Printing on February 28, 2012, 05:27:27 PM
I tried Union plastisol and I couldn't get it to work for the life of me.  I spent a couple of hours trying different plastisols/mesh only to finally use Union adhesive and bam, instant success.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: blue moon on February 28, 2012, 05:38:03 PM
really thick layer of foil adhesive. P/F/P through a 110. we flash and press the foil without curing the adhesive completely. Press the foil, about 10 seconds, medium pressure. Rub it with a shirt and let cool completely! Then peel. We get 100% coverage without any pinholes what so ever and the edges are super crisp.

pierre
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: jsheridan on February 28, 2012, 05:47:32 PM
Don't forget to add foil release to your other inks if doing multi-color or use waterbase for your other colors.

If you don't.. the foil will adhere to the entire print surface.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: killergraphics on February 28, 2012, 07:48:51 PM
You can also use the foil scraps for the touch ups, by just repressing the booboo spot and save the new stuff.

I use plastisol the same color as the shirt in a 110.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Frog on February 28, 2012, 09:43:13 PM
You can also use the foil scraps for the touch ups, by just repressing the booboo spot and save the new stuff.

I use plastisol the same color as the shirt in a 110.


Why the same color as the shirt? Some others use a color close to the foil color to help mask wear and flaking for a while.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Screened Gear on February 29, 2012, 02:02:27 AM
I heard somewhere to use high-density ink. I have never done it, I use a 50/50 plastisol / adhesive and get good results. I also P/F/P like pierre said. I think my next job I will do it with high-density just to see. Never have used the stuff but is sounds like a good idea.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: jsheridan on February 29, 2012, 02:40:09 AM
. Never have used the stuff but is sounds like a good idea.

Famous last words!!

it was probably someone who figured it was a good way to get rid of some old ink stock.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: killergraphics on February 29, 2012, 07:22:47 AM
You can also use the foil scraps for the touch ups, by just repressing the booboo spot and save the new stuff.

I use plastisol the same color as the shirt in a 110.


Why the same color as the shirt? Some others use a color close to the foil color to help mask wear and flaking for a while.

Don't really know. I liked black ink on a black shirt I just stayed with the idea. You know me and my crazy ideas.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Orion on February 29, 2012, 08:38:41 AM
I have used a high density clear/gel for foil. A 60x screen with 400 micron stencil. The foil is applied by hand as the shirt exits the dryer. Not good for large coverage but to highlight certain areas of the design.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: blue moon on February 29, 2012, 09:20:25 AM
I have used a high density clear/gel for foil. A 60x screen with 400 micron stencil. The foil is applied by hand as the shirt exits the dryer. Not good for large coverage but to highlight certain areas of the design.

I have seen that done at the SGIA show last year and it was impressive! Purchased the shirt just to be able to check it out.
An industry expert I talked to recently also suggested using clear gel rather than adhesive.

pierre
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: ebscreen on February 29, 2012, 12:24:33 PM
HD is preferred for foil around here. 125 mesh up or down depending on coverage.
Best is P/F/P the same screen if reasonable to do so.

You can tell if you're too hot or too cold or not enough pressure based on the way the foil
releases (or doesn't) when you pull it.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: jsheridan on February 29, 2012, 12:43:12 PM
my concerns with using HD ink is squishing it when you press the foil and the ink usage from a 400 mic phat film just for a foil adhesive. If the HD is part of the design and you want a raised surface, then go for it. But just to use it for the sake that someone else did it.. not so good idea when you factor in all the work and reduced production time it requires to print HD inks.

Using regular ole clear gel ink (stuff is very sticky to begin with) tinted with color to match the foil with a 110 mesh coated 2x3 will give you more than enough stencil thickness for foil application.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: RICK STEFANICK on March 08, 2012, 12:23:03 AM
YEP PIERRE, thats what people were using way back befor they actualy made a real foil adhesive.actually gel and a 200 micron screen may eliminate your need to pfp.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Colin on March 08, 2012, 01:41:37 PM
Here is a small tip on ink selection as a foil base.

The stickier the ink is when flashed/heated/cured the better the foil will actually want to STICK to it!

That's why gel works so well.  It is VERY sticky.  But it is poor for large area/perfect coverage of foil.

For coverage on very large areas: tint/color the ink you are using to the shade of your foil for best long term results.

Also, check out different brands of foil.  They all will peal off the ink differently.  I tried the Amagic foil a few years ago and was really surprised at how well (better imo) it was doing against Crown Roll..... 
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: RICK STEFANICK on March 08, 2012, 02:58:46 PM
thanks colin. thats good info. 
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: jeeperiam97 on May 22, 2012, 06:15:45 PM
Clear HD Gel....all the way. Works every time.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Denis Kolar on May 23, 2012, 06:58:36 AM
I did try p\using foil for the first time last night.
I used Union foil glue with a bit of QCM Gold mixed in to get the yellow background for the gold foil. I did about 20 shirts, and for some reason, the more shirts I pressed, the worse result I was getting.
Last few were really bad :(
I did PFPFP, three layers on glue to build it up through 110 mesh.

Any ideas why it would start going bad. Used Crown Leaf foil.
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: tonypep on May 23, 2012, 07:33:24 AM
I heard somewhere to use high-density ink. I have never done it, I use a 50/50 plastisol / adhesive and get good results. I also P/F/P like pierre said. I think my next job I will do it with high-density just to see. Never have used the stuff but is sounds like a good idea.
Try a HD clear
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: tonypep on May 23, 2012, 07:35:42 AM
Oops looks like ten other people suggested this. I prefer the PFP over thick stencils. Better edge def
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 23, 2012, 11:14:40 AM
I did try p\using foil for the first time last night.
I used Union foil glue with a bit of QCM Gold mixed in to get the yellow background for the gold foil. I did about 20 shirts, and for some reason, the more shirts I pressed, the worse result I was getting.
Last few were really bad :(
I did PFPFP, three layers on glue to build it up through 110 mesh.

Any ideas why it would start going bad. Used Crown Leaf foil.
What were your temp,press times? I do 330 for 20 seconds and let cool before peeling
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Denis Kolar on May 23, 2012, 11:18:53 AM
I had it at 330 for 13 seconds. Cold peel
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 23, 2012, 12:01:17 PM
I have found longer dwell times to work best and a medium light pressure
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: blue moon on May 23, 2012, 03:58:58 PM
make sure you are not overcooking the glue! It has to stay tacky and that goes away with time in the dryer. I don't even run the shirts though the dryer before pressing the foil.

pierre
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Denis Kolar on May 23, 2012, 05:03:05 PM
Did not run them trough the dryer, I just flashed them (maybe a bit longer than usual)
Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: blue moon on May 23, 2012, 05:50:57 PM
did you rub the with another shirt before letting them cool down?

Title: Re: Help with Foil
Post by: Denis Kolar on May 24, 2012, 08:00:56 AM
did you rub the with another shirt before letting them cool down?



Nope, I did that after they cooled down :(
I guess, now I have few shirts that I can play with