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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Screened Gear on February 15, 2012, 06:28:50 PM
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Ok who? I am wanting to do some research into who is the leading screen printers. I am not really interested in guys that did great work years ago. I am looking for what shops and guys that are the ones to follow (for not a better word). I want to see or find out how I (or we) can get to their level. What do they do that we can’t afford or don’t have the skills to do. Maybe some of you are these guys. Websites or images of what they have done would be very helpful. Maybe even make a list. Who is the top guy or shop right now??? (Right now Pierre is the only one I know)
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You know I like the work that they do at Anderson studio inc in Tenn. Not sure who to contact I just shot Sherry there an email to see how open they are to sharing advice. I will try to see if I can get in contact with the printers whose work I admire and see if they will pop on here. Anyone know these guys? Here is their link http://andersonstudioinc.com/product-gallery-page.php (http://andersonstudioinc.com/product-gallery-page.php)
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I know him.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534392353 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534392353)
Super Nice Guy...very busy...but a nice guy.
He is a little net shy in his own words.
There are many better...but I ain't that bad for a hillbilly
www.killergraphics.net (http://www.killergraphics.net)
www.myTguys.com (http://www.myTguys.com)
www.USArmyOnly.com (http://www.USArmyOnly.com)
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You know I like the work that they do at Anderson studio inc in Tenn. Not sure who to contact I just shot Sherry there an email to see how open they are to sharing advice. I will try to see if I can get in contact with the printers whose work I admire and see if they will pop on here. Anyone know these guys? Here is their link [url]http://andersonstudioinc.com/product-gallery-page.php[/url] ([url]http://andersonstudioinc.com/product-gallery-page.php[/url])
I wasn't really thinking I would call them and have them tell me their secrets. I just wanted to know who they were and see some of their work. It would be cool if they would join here and tell us some tips.
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i was gonna say anderson studios but he beat me to it.
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dan zmuda at castle shirt company in north carolina. dan and his crew are running some of the best work in the industry.
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I was always curious as to what makes a screen printing shop, award winning? What are the contests you enter to be in the running's of an award winning shop?
I know Thread Bird has won a few awards. There standard prints are hybrid (Discharge UB softhand plastisol over print). I outsourced a simple job to them a few years back to see the quality... I wasn't too impressed.
www.threadbird.com (http://www.threadbird.com)
I give them credit though. They are one of those shops that takes in a ton of work strictly through E-Mails. I'm sure they take phone orders to, but I know that a majority of their business is based off of E-Mail orders.
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I like how this is going. I have heard of some of these. Website links are great. I just checked out Andersons and their website has also of pictures of their operation. Very cool.
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The following people are members here and are among the TOP printers in the US.
Dan Zamuda - Castle Shirt Co.
Rick Roth - Mirror Image
Toni Pepitone - Not sure where he's at now.
Mark Coudray - Not printing himself but is consulting
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I know him.
[url]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534392353[/url] ([url]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534392353[/url])
Super Nice Guy...very busy...but a nice guy.
He is a little net shy in his own words.
There are many better...but I ain't that bad for a hillbilly
[url=http://www.killergraphics.net]www.killergraphics.net[/url] ([url]http://www.killergraphics.net[/url])
[url=http://www.myTguys.com]www.myTguys.com[/url] ([url]http://www.myTguys.com[/url])
[url=http://www.USArmyOnly.com]www.USArmyOnly.com[/url] ([url]http://www.USArmyOnly.com[/url])
nice thanks
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The following people are members here and are among the TOP printers in the US.
Dan Zamuda - Castle Shirt Co.
Rick Roth - Mirror Image
Toni Pepitone - Not sure where he's at now.
Mark Coudray - Not printing himself but is consulting
How about our own, Pierre.
He took some awards in last few years, and that is only after a few years of printing.
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http://liquidblue.com/ (http://liquidblue.com/)
Ive been in their place simply amazing!
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I am award winning. The checks my customers hand me is proof of that. ;)
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The following people are members here and are among the TOP printers in the US.
Dan Zamuda - Castle Shirt Co.
Rick Roth - Mirror Image
Toni Pepitone - Not sure where he's at now.
Mark Coudray - Not printing himself but is consulting
How about our own, Pierre.
He took some awards in last few years, and that is only after a few years of printing.
Yeah but didn't he work with an award winning and famous art sep artist to win the awards? I mean that raises the question " what is award winning mean"? Your only as good as the artist really. Anybody can shoot screens, make films, set up a job, and put ink in it but if your art is junk you get junk....;) my .02!
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Yeah but didn't he work with an award winning and famous art sep artist to win the awards? I mean that raises the question " what is award winning mean"? Your only as good as the artist really. Anybody can shoot screens, make films, set up a job, and put ink in it but if your art is junk you get junk....;) my .02!
It is not like you push a button and press does everything else. But yes, you are right about the supplied artwork.
Some printers are good when using Dan, but even Dan can not help much to some of printers when it comes to printing. Whatever the reason it might be.
And I would not say that everybody can do it. For example, I would never-ever ask my brother to try printing again. He almost broke off printing arm of my press when he tried it. He pushed so much that I still have ink on the pallet.
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Nobody has mentioned Lon Winters and Graphic Elephants or New Buffalo Shirt Factory. I don't know who the production/print guru is at New Buffalo or who their Lon Winters is.
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Pierre is the man
Sent from samsung gem(the worst smart phone ever)
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The following people are members here and are among the TOP printers in the US.
Dan Zamuda - Castle Shirt Co.
Rick Roth - Mirror Image
Toni Pepitone - Not sure where he's at now.
Mark Coudray - Not printing himself but is consulting
How about our own, Pierre.
He took some awards in last few years, and that is only after a few years of printing.
Yeah but didn't he work with an award winning and famous art sep artist to win the awards? I mean that raises the question " what is award winning mean"? Your only as good as the artist really. Anybody can shoot screens, make films, set up a job, and put ink in it but if your art is junk you get junk....;) my .02!
This is not entirely true. Art is only a portion of it. A good printer can do a lot even with art that is not the greatest.
Anybody can shoot screens, make films, set up a job, and put ink in it
This right here is what separates the men from the boys. You could have the best art in the world, with the best seps, and if the above is not done right the print will still look like sh i t! Its not that easy. If it were than this would be an art forum and not a printing forum ;D
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It all comes together when every part of the process is world class. If any of the major variables are sub-par, then the final print will show that. If you have the greatest seps in the world but use 10 newton screens with swollen threads then the print will show it. Everything works in unison and I really think that the old adage about a chain being as strong as it's weakest link holds true in screen printing when you get to that "world class" and "award winning" level of printing.
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The following people are members here and are among the TOP printers in the US.
Dan Zamuda - Castle Shirt Co.
Rick Roth - Mirror Image
Toni Pepitone - Not sure where he's at now.
Mark Coudray - Not printing himself but is consulting
Thanks for the nod Dan. I am with Music City Networks in Nashville. Right around the corner from Andy. And yes we must include Pierre in the list.
tp
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As long as we're analyzing this, who is (or should be) the actual "winner"?
The artist, the separator, the guy who made the screens (or the guy or cleaned them), the guy who set the job up on the press, the guy who actually loaded the shirts?
In the end, though I suppose that it would be the owner, even if he was on vacation at the time.
Of course, it's really the shop itself, with an extra nod to the production manager.
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trying to catch up after being gone for 5 days so not time to get into details, but there is no question the award winning requires equal amount of art, seps and printing. As Alan said, if any one of them is off, the whole print is not as good as it needs to be.
From what I have seen, Andy Anderson is the top dog in the US right now. I have seen many others and think that on a good day we are on par with all of it, but Andy's stuff is in a league of its own! His prints are superior on every level one can think of. . . (not to upset anybody, there's product from many printers that I have not seen yet, so this is just a general assumption based on the stuff from the ISS, SGIA and few other places)
Andy is a very nice guy, I had an opportunity to exchange few emails with him and meet him in person, but he is very busy and is a man of few words. 'not that he is trying to keep any secrets, he just comes across as uncomfortable with all the attention.
gotta go!
pierre
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I want to take a stab at explaining what makes a award winning screen printer. I have been around award winners in the past and they all think the same just to different levels.
Here it is. An award winning person, at anything, is a person that first can see room to improve. Most of these guys are OCD (I said Most not all). They are the person that can see room to improve were others give up or don't think it matters.
Here is an example: Lets take shooting free throws. The task is to shoot 10 free throws. How does 3 award winning people do it. They all know what is expected. 10 out of 10. So the first one gets 10 out of 10 and said there I was perfect you can't beat me. The second award winning guy said I can do better and shoots all ten without even touching the rim, there I did it better you hit the rim on 5 of yours. The third guy comes up and shoots all 10 perfectly without even touching the net. The other 2 guys said that’s cheating you used a tennis ball. The third guy said the task was to shoot free throws and to do it without touching the net I had to used better equipment then you guys to get the job done. The rules said nothing about what I had to use to get the job done.
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Andy's Tee Shirts not 5 miles from my shop has been winning awards for years.
And as far as I know, up until a few years ago it was all done on American Multiprinters.
As for art vs. printer, it really comes down to art. Bad/stupid art printed excellently is still
bad/stupid art that no one likes and is boring. Awesome art printed badly is still awesome art.
What's more interesting, a 700 micron HD print stacked eighteen times in the shape of a square
or Godzilla crushing Bambi printed on a Speedball setup with wood frames and a halogen
exposure? Any decent shop can or should be able to expose and print in register 60 LPI screens.
The rest is in the art/seps. And the best are artists that know and can make use of different
types of screen printing.
It reminds me of a post by a certain longhaired Texan in which he exalted a printer in India that produced
apparently beautiful prints using much less than the setup described above. All things he would chastise
any American printer back to the land of AB Dick for doing.
The true test of a printer is when a screen pops on press or the blanks come in late or they are some ridiculous
fabric content or you have 1 flash and 8 spot art plastisol colors to print on an underbase on poly garments.
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It all comes together when every part of the process is world class. If any of the major variables are sub-par, then the final print will show that. If you have the greatest seps in the world but use 10 newton screens with swollen threads then the print will show it. Everything works in unison and I really think that the old adage about a chain being as strong as it's weakest link holds true in screen printing when you get to that "world class" and "award winning" level of printing.
Absolutely. I would add that for those of us who only use manual presses, completing any run with perfect consistency from print to print demands a level of concentration that we likely often don't maintain out of boredom, distraction, or fatigue. That isn't to say that the shirts can't be sold, and often the discrepancies are only visible to the printer, but it does point out that optimum work isn't simply a matter of some slacker pulling a squeegie across a screen, at least if you take any pride in your work.
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Andy's Tee Shirts not 5 miles from my shop has been winning awards for years.
And as far as I know, up until a few years ago it was all done on American Multiprinters.
As for art vs. printer, it really comes down to art. Bad/stupid art printed excellently is still
bad/stupid art that no one likes and is boring. Awesome art printed badly is still awesome art.
What's more interesting, a 700 micron HD print stacked eighteen times in the shape of a square
or Godzilla crushing Bambi printed on a Speedball setup with wood frames and a halogen
exposure? Any decent shop can or should be able to expose and print in register 60 LPI screens.
The rest is in the art/seps. And the best are artists that know and can make use of different
types of screen printing.
It reminds me of a post by a certain longhaired Texan in which he exalted a printer in India that produced
apparently beautiful prints using much less than the setup described above. All things he would chastise
any American printer back to the land of AB Dick for doing.
The true test of a printer is when a screen pops on press or the blanks come in late or they are some ridiculous
fabric content or you have 1 flash and 8 spot art plastisol colors to print on an underbase on poly garments.
two points here:
1. any decent shop should be able to hold the 55lpi down to about 6-7%. That will produce much better than average results. I don't think 60lpi at that level is easy.
2. any decent shop will produce decent results rather than award winning prints. To get to the award winning level you have to hold at least a 4% at 55lpi and spectacular press control. 3% at 65lpi is much better and has significantly higher chance of winning anything. There is a big gap between decent and top 1% and it is visible in the print.
I'll also agree that the art is the most visible part of the print, just as the seps are not obvious at all. But when the print is out for judging on technical merit, the HD block will place higher than the speedball print. The customer might not care, but judges do. This would all be silly since the judges are not customers, but in the end better printers will produce better results for the customers. If they provide crap art, they will get crap back. With good art, good printers can make it be appreciated (think Mona Lisa, would anybody get excited about her if she was done with crayons?).
There is also a fine line of ROI. How much time should a company spend on improving the prints? I think we are at the level where our primary goal is to improve efficiency and the print quality is on hold. As the other parts of production catch up, we'll devote efforts to the print quality again, but right now, it would not get us any more work and produce anything discernible by the customer.
Andy's Tees prints some pretty impressive stuff. They are definitely better in some aspects than we are and not as good in others. Anybody looking at their prints at the show and not saying that they are excellent is missing something. If every print we made looked like the stuff they show at ISS, I would be ecstatic!
As far as the manual presses, I think that once you have the screens done, most of the battle is over. The only issue I can think of with a manual is the consistency of the run. But, I only printed with a manual for 4 months so I could easily be waaaaay off!
And to keep going, there might be a little bit of OCD involved, too. I would say, at least in my case, it was the drive/desire to learn and the ability to see/grasp the difference rather than OCD. First part (drive/desire) is easy and can be forced, but the ability to perceive and quantify the problem and then solving it requires analytic thinking. Not everybody poseses that skillset and those shops either have to hire it or get there slowly, instinctively over a rather long period of time. And again, not trying to brag here as even though I can analyze things and have a skill that some ppl don't, I also lack many that an average person can do in their sleep. I have a strength in one particular section and am taking advantage of it. The places where I am weak, I have somebody else do it. Important part is to realize what your issues are and put something in play to deal with them. So after all this tangential babble, it is probably not OCD but just a desire to improve unlike the OCD which is mostly about repetition. It is a type of personality that is always finding a better way to do something and trying to fix things. We often end up being entrepreneurs and . . . DAMN, I sure feel like I am preaching to the choir here!!!!!! 'time to go fix something!
pierre
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"it is probably not OCD but just a desire to improve unlike the OCD which is mostly about repetition."
Pierre,
I heard some study once that many CEOs have some level of OCD. OCD is not a bad thing at a small level. We could call it a lot of things, drive, perfectionist, very dedicated. I only said that to put the picture in peoples head of how some award winners view their work. (not talking only about screen printers)
"which is mostly about repetition"
I would guess if you keep printing a shirt and making very fine edits for hours on end that would cover the repetition part of the OCD. Again OCD is a serious disease and I am not taking that lightly here. I am just saying a little OCD is found in a lot of people that excel in their field.
Sorry for the derail.
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I don't think it's ever one individual we should be referring to but a team that has developed a unique synergy. I've said before that a printer who can think like a separator and a separator who can think like a printer makes a dynamic that is hard to beat. Sure it's great to have the latest gadgets and equipment but in the end they are only tools. Knowledge of ink rheology, color theory, chemistry, physics, and interdependant variable theory are IMO more important.
You'd be suprised what we could do more than two decades ago!
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Tony you are 100% right.
the ability to ,for see, the print you are after and the knowledge to know how to get their, in it's self puts one on a different plane.
I am going to Andy's shop soon and did not know you were in music city now.
If you knew in advance...be it Ok to stop by.
I'd love to meet ya and talk shop.
Johnny
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Sure Johnny but I more than likely won't be able to spare too much time. I'm in the middle of an acquisition right now; bringing in more equipment, allocating another bldg, etc.
Send me a PM and I'll give you my #
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Get your programs! You can't tell your Andys apart without your programs!
Okay, just in case there is any confusion, Andy Anderson is the man behind Anderson Studios (http://andersonstudioinc.com/), an award winning shop in Nashville, TN
Andy Brizio, "The Rodfather" founded Andy's Tee Shirts (http://www.andystees.com/), an award winning shop in Concord, California, and now run by his daughter Kim.
Your own Andy here, Frog, ain't won diddly, except hopefully the friendship of many of you!
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"it is probably not OCD but just a desire to improve unlike the OCD which is mostly about repetition."
Pierre,
I heard some study once that many CEOs have some level of OCD. OCD is not a bad thing at a small level. We could call it a lot of things, drive, perfectionist, very dedicated. I only said that to put the picture in peoples head of how some award winners view their work. (not talking only about screen printers)
"which is mostly about repetition"
I would guess if you keep printing a shirt and making very fine edits for hours on end that would cover the repetition part of the OCD. Again OCD is a serious disease and I am not taking that lightly here. I am just saying a little OCD is found in a lot of people that excel in their field.
Sorry for the derail.
I think we are on the same page here. There is a fine line between OCD and the strong drive to excel/improve. In the end, the point is, winning is not easy and it take so much more than ppl can imagine.
pierre
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Get your programs! You can't tell your Andys apart without your programs!
Okay, just in case there is any confusion, Andy Anderson is the man behind Anderson Studios ([url]http://andersonstudioinc.com/[/url]), an award winning shop in Nashville, TN
Andy Brizio, "The Rodfather" founded Andy's Tee Shirts ([url]http://www.andystees.com/[/url]), an award winning shop in Concord, California, and now run by his daughter Kim.
Your own Andy here, Frog, ain't won diddly, except hopefully the friendship of many of you!
Andy I am sure I speak for most here if not all,
"You are our FAVORITE Andy!"
pierre
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Get your programs! You can't tell your Andys apart without your programs!
Okay, just in case there is any confusion, Andy Anderson is the man behind Anderson Studios ([url]http://andersonstudioinc.com/[/url]), an award winning shop in Nashville, TN
Andy Brizio, "The Rodfather" founded Andy's Tee Shirts ([url]http://www.andystees.com/[/url]), an award winning shop in Concord, California, and now run by his daughter Kim.
Your own Andy here, Frog, ain't won diddly, except hopefully the friendship of many of you!
Andy I am sure I speak for most here if not all,
"You are our FAVORITE Andy!"
pierre
Get a Room...(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/killergraphx/ROFLMAO.gif)(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/killergraphx/ROFLMAO.gif)(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/killergraphx/ROFLMAO.gif)
But I will say (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/killergraphx/frog.gif) is one of the smartest people I know and have never met. ;)
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Get your programs! You can't tell your Andys apart without your programs!
Okay, just in case there is any confusion, Andy Anderson is the man behind Anderson Studios ([url]http://andersonstudioinc.com/[/url]), an award winning shop in Nashville, TN
Andy Brizio, "The Rodfather" founded Andy's Tee Shirts ([url]http://www.andystees.com/[/url]), an award winning shop in Concord, California, and now run by his daughter Kim.
Your own Andy here, Frog, ain't won diddly, except hopefully the friendship of many of you!
At the end of the day this is all that matters anyways.
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As long as we're analyzing this, who is (or should be) the actual "winner"?
The artist, the separator, the guy who made the screens (or the guy or cleaned them), the guy who set the job up on the press, the guy who actually loaded the shirts?
In the end, though I suppose that it would be the owner, even if he was on vacation at the time.
Of course, it's really the shop itself, with an extra nod to the production manager.
I go with the last person in line. As an analogy, in photography the negative is the master, but the print is what you look at; in music, the score is the road map, but the performance is sh!t...
Steve
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As long as we're analyzing this, who is (or should be) the actual "winner"?
The artist, the separator, the guy who made the screens (or the guy or cleaned them), the guy who set the job up on the press, the guy who actually loaded the shirts?
In the end, though I suppose that it would be the owner, even if he was on vacation at the time.
Of course, it's really the shop itself, with an extra nod to the production manager.
I go with the last person in line. As an analogy, in photography the negative is the master, but the print is what you look at; in music, the score is the road map, but the performance is sh!t...
Steve
When I was in the design world, as long as you took part in the project you could take credit for the award. I have worked with designers that have quite a few awards and couldn't do SH8t on their own. Many of them worked on a team to win the award. Some did very little but still feel they would have never won if they were not part of the it. (artists) There are a lot of people that work on an award winning design but the person that should get the award is the person that put the team together and made sure that team did the best work they could at ever step of the production.
How do they judge these compatitions??? Anyone know?
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I'm not sure it is even wise to try to rank them.
Many do awarding winning work every week/month/year and few if any are ever entered in a contest.
Some shops will do a job just for a contest.
How bout just saying in your opinion these are the top 5 or 10?
What do you think?
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In one of my classes at long beach they talked about a printer that does all his stuff at some insane line screen. I think it was 100 or maybe even over that. I can't remember the name of the printer. It was not just for an award they do it for all of their SimPro work. As Killer said there are guys out there doing better than award work every day. They most likely don't even care for the awards.
Do you have to pay to enter a shirt into some of these contests? I know in the logo design world they always had a entry fee.
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Target Graphics works at 85 LPI I think, maybe higher. Too lazy to look up their webpage.
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Target Graphics works at 85 LPI I think, maybe higher. Too lazy to look up their webpage.
they claim to be over 100 for some stuff (125 IIRC). There is a little more to the story though as they do things unconventionally to get those results.
pierre
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In one of my classes at long beach they talked about a printer that does all his stuff at some insane line screen. I think it was 100 or maybe even over that. I can't remember the name of the printer. It was not just for an award they do it for all of their SimPro work. As Killer said there are guys out there doing better than award work every day. They most likely don't even care for the awards.
Do you have to pay to enter a shirt into some of these contests? I know in the logo design world they always had a entry fee.
ISS does not charge anything. SGIA allows one for free and then $30 for each additional entry.
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In one of my classes at long beach they talked about a printer that does all his stuff at some insane line screen. I think it was 100 or maybe even over that. I can't remember the name of the printer. It was not just for an award they do it for all of their SimPro work. As Killer said there are guys out there doing better than award work every day. They most likely don't even care for the awards.
Do you have to pay to enter a shirt into some of these contests? I know in the logo design world they always had a entry fee.
ISS does not charge anything. SGIA allows one for free and then $30 for each additional entry.
$30 is not that bad. When I was doing logo design some of them were as High as $150. It was all about the money.
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I'm not sure it is even wise to try to rank them.
Many do awarding winning work every week/month/year and few if any are ever entered in a contest.
Some shops will do a job just for a contest.
How bout just saying in your opinion these are the top 5 or 10?
What do you think?
for anybody still caring to follow this thread . . .
I would venture to guess that what is coming from a shop on everyday bases will not win anything. Not because the shops are not capable of it, but rather that the award level prints require a lot more work and not many customers are willing to pay for it. Also, in most cases, the shops are not willing to spend the time to do it at the higher level since it does not bring any extra money.
For winning entries, art is expensive, the seps are expensive and the sampling time is expensive. The prints we've entered had at least $1K worth of expenses before the first shirt came of the belt. So I will agree with Johnny that there are many shops out there capable of producing outstanding work, but not many will have an opportunity to print those designs, or will be willing to put in the extra time and money.
re: what it takes to win . . .
Of the winning entries and the shirts that I have seen, all of them seem to be on the same level which is not hard to obtain if pursued. Short of some esoteric special effects, there is only one printer (Andy Anderson) at the competitions that constantly produces results we could not replicate (and continue to baffle me). Any other shirt out there is at our skill level or very, very close. This means that in many cases the judging is subjective as the differences are very small and in the end it boils down to subjective opinions and in some cases organizer's instructions (which often value aesthetic factors higher than the technical achievement! Don't ask how I know that).
As far as the best shops, here is what I'm thinking right now:
on a 1 to 10 scale from what I have seen or heard
-(10) Andy is the man and so far I am yet to see anything, and I mean anything that can touch his prints!
-TonyP speaks highly of JSR. Zelko here works for them, maybe he can send a sample for inspection. I would love to see it. Based on what Tony says, they are better then we are, it would be nice to see how much longer we have to go to reach their level.
-Lon Winters likes Liquid Blue. I did check out a couple of their shirts last weekend. They were good, but not exceptional. I'd say an 8, but again, I did not get a chance to look very closely.
-Andy's Tees. Got a chance to look at their stuff at the shows and they are a solid 8.
-New Buffalo, did not see any, but based on the pictures and conversations I would guess another 8.
-Rick Roth probably about 8.5. His strength is in the innovation and art rather then spectacular print quality.
-Target Graphics. Yes they print 4CP at 125lpi and on black, but those belong in the esoteric category mentioned before. My guess, probably an 8.
-Blue Moon, just for reference, I would say we are a 7.5 on 10 scale.
-a very respected shop that is not winning awards is probably around 7. These are the guys you probably heard of somewhere for who knows what reason. These are the shops Johnny is thinking of.
While yes, there are bound to be shops at 7.5 or 8 level (possibly even 8.5) out there that none of us have ever heard of, there aren't as many as we imagine there would be.
For anybody no believing what I just said, send me a fedex shipping label and I'll send you a shirt the DID NOT place at ISS and SGIA.
pierre
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Good info Pierre. You obviously have spent some time researching this stuff. If Andy’s prints are that much better there has to be something we don't know. I like how this tread is going I am learning exactly what I was wanting. l would like to see one of his shirts in person if they are that much better. Does he use some insane LPI or is it just really smooth. Pierre where does he excel compared to you right now?
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Pierre since I no longer work for JSR I cannot speak on their behalf although I can say that they produce award winning products 18 hrs a day all year long.
They are among many companies such as New Buffalo who, to be honest, don't need the recognition. They are too busy doing what they are doing and often times don't consider that what they do each day is exceptional. On a side note we had a visit yesterday from our largest client whom I had not previously met. Totally by accident we realized that we had a mutual connection with Harlequin Nature Graphics. I started out with HNG as a night shift manager running eight presses and eventually developed into R&D. We reminisced about what an exceptional group of talented and creative people they were and what amazingly great products they produced in the very unlikely setting of a series of quonset huts in Fort Myers FLA. Many would keel over upon hearing how we did things back then but I suppose it is, as with many companies, it's often more about the people and their ability to work with what they are given than how technically up to date they may be. That may seem like a backwards statement but consider the often used automotive analogy. It's just as much about the driver as it is about the car.
That said I applaud all of you who continue to contribute to this most productive site. While we may most likely never agree about everything it's all good grist for the mill.
It's important to submit and compete for awards. I don't want in any way want to imply that this is not an insignificant endeavor. Conversely it can be critical for new companies who need recognition in order to stand out from the rest. Above all that I know, you Pierre, have proven the point.
best tp
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I think tony hit this one on the head. I think once you get to a certain level your work is award winning but the awards are not worth it anymore. I am not an advertising expert but I did do a lot of it in a past life. I have to say if advertising your shop as an award winning shop gets you more work than do it. The other side of that coin is people that went with you because you’re an award winning shop will expect that kind of work every time from you. It’s really a decision you have to make on how you advertise and who your real target market is. You can make just as much money doing crap work in this industry as doing the best work you can. It really depends the markets you work for and the way you get and keep your clients’. If you get your clients with award winning prints then you have to keep them by producing award (or close) winning jobs for them. If you get your clients based on a low ball price you need to keep your price low to keep that client. There is a small part of building a relationship that helps but clients found you because they thought you could satisfy a need they had. When you stop satisfying that need they will find another printer that will.
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Well said Screened Gear and so true.
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Andy, you guys decide if you want to move this, leave it or delete it from here.
But with the interest this thread has...let's each...to our own ability tell these young ones what is important to get there.
ie: the things one has to have to do very good work, what you did to make it to the next step and so on.
I feel that I am a strong 5 or 6 as far as the numbers are running and on a more modern press could move up a #.
After I closed my shops and moved to the farm...I acquired...in a used market most of what I needed.
Quality graphic programs and a computer that would run them.
left the laser printers (which will do process work) and went to a wide format ink jet and rip (today there are work arounds to a rip)
a single point light source.
backlite washout...My dumb a$$ went 20 years without one. :o
and a press that would do the work and was in my price range at the time. I run a Brown 7/8 semi-auto. In my world I don't care about production #'s as I'm the only mule pullin the plow.
But the stronger a shop is in each of these areas the better the out come.
Is this even worth talking about and if so what did you do to go to the next level?
If you can't tell I like talking to the lurkers as much as the posters. 8)
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Well said Screened Gear and so true.
thank you so much screened gear for that post. YOU nailed it.
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Interesting topic. I'm only familiar with some of output of the top printers mentioned so I can't comment 100%, plus most of the "meat" of this topic has been mentioned. I do agree that there are printers out there that do terrific sim pro, especially on darks, that don't bother to enter the contests. Kind of like with music. There are the national bands that get the awards and accolades but we all know of a local band that could wipe the floor with the popular bands yet don't bother with the recognition. They just maintain their consistent quality of music and remain regional for various reasons. Nothing sinister about it. NOT to take anything away from the shops that consistently excel at their craft and win the awards such as Anderson Studios, Mirror Image, Blue Moon. They deserve it!
Being in this business for so long, you get to see the ebb and flow and progression of our craft. New Buffalo dominated for a while there, then submerged. Liquid Blue takes the top spot then submerges. The next one appears, etc. New Buffalo evidently still produces top shelf prints (is Jon Weiss still running things there?). They all seem to be doing what they do best. An analogy comes to mind with the guys who restore muscle cars to extreme factory appearance (inspection marks, correct radiator cap, single stage paint runs, etc.) and go for the judged gold status. I know several. After winning the awards it gets a little boring so the Hemi Super Bee trailer queen days end and they begin to drive the snot out of it or sell them. Yet they still move on to another car to restore for the challenge of it and do a dazzling job of it but maybe don't enter the judged show again, or right away.
Having won a few gold, silver and bronze sqeegees a few years back, I never felt it was just one person who achieved it. I'd always say "we" won the
award. It's definitely a combination of the seps, screens, the ink mixer, printer - a group effort. But hec yeah, we all requested individual plaques though. 8) ;D