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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: blue moon on November 30, 2011, 03:52:37 PM
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It looks like the formula for my favorite white has changed and it is no long and stringy unlike before. We are having issues with it and I am looking to switch. Tony suggested streetfighter white and I just ordered a gallon.
We all have different preferences, and everybody has their favorite white for one reason or another. What I am looking for in particular is a short bodied lo bleed ink. Preferably without bleach so I can use it on both the 100% and 50/50. The cost is not an issue as long as it is justified by performance. Actually, pretty sure that the low performance stuff is not of any interest no matter the price.
If you could also provide some info on how you print it so I test is with right settings (hi/lo stroke speed, pressure, hard/soft flood and so on). The ink we used with excellent success we were printing with pretty high stroke pressure, med-hard flood, squeegee laid down as far as it will go (about 30 deg angle) and about a medium stroke speed. THe ink we use now even though it has the same name has to stroke at half the speed and it will not shear no matter how hard we try.
The original also had a very small amount of puff in it and it was creating a matte finish that was very suitable for overprinting with colors (sim process).
So, what's out there? Any suggestions?
pierre
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QCM 159. As short bodied as I've ever used and will shear at a fairly fast print speed with less than 25 psi through a 150/48 mesh, hard flood. I don't use it very much anymore simply because it is too short bodied and builds up on the squeegee and sides of the screens so bad, it makes a mess on longer runs. It will eventually climb up to the squeegee and fb bars if you print long enough. I'm liking rutland street fighter LB and snap is ok, but it also shortens up considerably the more you use it. I don't like the street fighter 100% cotton version, just the low bleed. White ink with any puff doesn't work for us.
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To all.....There are three versions of SF white
9746=poly
9072=cotton
9073=both
I use the 9073. Since my pricing is the same for all that made sense. In four months i haven't found anything it did not work on. I will be iinterested in hearing pierres observations on it.
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Int Coatings 7031 Ultra white is short bodied, soft and very opaque. We run different pressures for different things, but it will print with very low pressure 1.5-2 bar in the right scenario. It has moderate low bleed properties, I don't use it on bad 50/50 bleeders like red, maroon, sapphire but it's fine on black, navy, royal and others that don't bleed horribly. Use it a lot for sim process UB's.
If you like a little puff, try Wilflex Buffalo, used that for probably 5 years, went to the IC to get away from the puff. I'd say Buffalo is about the same as the 7031 on bleed resistance.
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Pierre, right now we are using White Brite HO LB from WM Plastics its very good ink so far, I use it for all my base white printing. I use a beveled squeegie so my angle would be 0 with medium squeegie pressure speed hmmm I,m say medium fast if that makes sense. Now if I,m using a standard squeegie 70 duro I,m at a angle of 10 with medium hard pressure about the same print speed. You might want to give it a try unless you have already tried it out oh and I don't think theres any puff in it as it laids down pretty flat with a matte finish.
Darryl
Hey 30 angle what duro squeegie you using for that angle?
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1 Stroke hybrid here, short body, fastest flash I have ever used, lays flat, good for underbase... underside expensive I think about $72 gal.... They will send you a free sample just give them a call. And what I like if you do not like any of there stuff they will replace for FREE... or credit you.
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This is why I don't work for an ink company. I would name my white ink Supreme White and my black would be called Panther Black. ;D
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what is the problem with the puff? I have not had any issues with it and it just seems to make it easier to get a good opaque layer. (now, I am not talking about big thick puffed up print, it is probably 0.1% or 0.2% and it is almost impossible to tell that there is any in it).
DISCLAIMER: please excuse my ignorance, many here forget that I am still very new to this industry . . .
pierre
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The QCM 159 I used to run was very short-bodied, just a bit too much so as Alan mentioned. Ink was inconsistent from batch to batch however. I'm not clear on whether or not Rutland has successfully produced any of the QCM inks after they acquired the company yet or not, heard through the grapevine they were having some issues with the formulas. If they could re-create 159 and manufacture it consistently I'd check it out. But it will likely drive any auto operator nuttier than squirrel poop trying to keep it off the squeegee and flood.
You can avoid excessive climbing on ink like this by pre-warming the ink (it really changes once warm to an easier flowing white) though and keeping it at temp by either swapping out the ink if the shop is cool for the warm stuff or adding more warm in or keeping the shop warm. Still results in press stoppage though. On the flip side, stopping and swapping some of the white out every so often can avoid the dilatent (shear thickening) tendencies of white inks.
Wilflex Epic Quick White was a viable replacement for us. Short enough but doesn't crawl all over the place. Excellent bleed resistance considering how well it prints. Excellent detail though not as tight as the 159 was. A little less 'bright white' in perception than 159 as well but still a very nice white. It's the only white ink in our shop, I don't like to mess with multiple varieties and will base the quick down with transparent bases by weight if I want to extend or modify at all.
Post up about your trials Pierre, I'm interested to see what you choose and why. I agree that hyper-minimal amounts of blowing agent in the ink are probably okay and help with getting a matte finish.
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I know I am biased here because I sell it, but Triangle Phoenix White is a very good ink that prints on 50/50's and 100% cotton. It is a little finicky with some earth tones, but other than that it works fine with 100% cotton. It's very creamy, low bleed, and it really is the one single product that Triangle is truly known for...
If you are printing it, I recommend a hard fill (flood stroke) and then a push stroke to shear the ink onto the top of the shirt. Doesn't take much pressure at all with the correct screen prep.
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I know I am biased here because I sell it, but Triangle Phoenix White is a very good ink that prints on 50/50's and 100% cotton. It is a little finicky with some earth tones, but other than that it works fine with 100% cotton. It's very creamy, low bleed, and it really is the one single product that Triangle is truly known for...
If you are printing it, I recommend a hard fill (flood stroke) and then a push stroke to shear the ink onto the top of the shirt. Doesn't take much pressure at all with the correct screen prep.
Hey Tance,
I have a sample of Pheonix White in my shop and have not used it yet but when I opened it , it has sort of a blue green tint it seems very slight though, is this normal?
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I know I am biased here because I sell it, but Triangle Phoenix White is a very good ink that prints on 50/50's and 100% cotton. It is a little finicky with some earth tones, but other than that it works fine with 100% cotton. It's very creamy, low bleed, and it really is the one single product that Triangle is truly known for...
If you are printing it, I recommend a hard fill (flood stroke) and then a push stroke to shear the ink onto the top of the shirt. Doesn't take much pressure at all with the correct screen prep.
'interested. Can you get me a sample? I will gladly pay for it and if it works out would give you the business. We would have to make sure the shipping does not kill the deal though.
pierre
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P -if you got to triangle's website, you can fill out a form and get a free sample. i have a gallon here as a sample I have yet to try. Last time I opened a gallon of Phoenix white it was so thick I couldn't mix it, that was a few years back.
http://triangleink.com/request-free-sample/ (http://triangleink.com/request-free-sample/)
I am a member of the "white of the month club". . I hate white inks, I never know what to buy. I am a different printer than you so my suggestions are irrelevant.
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what is the problem with the puff? I have not had any issues with it and it just seems to make it easier to get a good opaque layer. (now, I am not talking about big thick puffed up print, it is probably 0.1% or 0.2% and it is almost impossible to tell that there is any in it).
DISCLAIMER: please excuse my ignorance, many here forget that I am still very new to this industry . . .
pierre
I think it's a personal preference, I prefer the ink laydown flat and have as sharp an edge as possible, other than that I don't have a reason. Buffalo is a very good white IMO, sounds like it might be good for you, it's definately not a high rise puff, just aids in opacity.
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P -if you got to triangle's website, you can fill out a form and get a free sample. i have a gallon here as a sample I have yet to try. Last time I opened a gallon of Phoenix white it was so thick I couldn't mix it, that was a few years back.
[url]http://triangleink.com/request-free-sample/[/url] ([url]http://triangleink.com/request-free-sample/[/url])
I am a member of the "white of the month club". . I hate white inks, I never know what to buy. I am a different printer than you so my suggestions are irrelevant.
lol they will probably have the most requests for a sample in one day than ever! But hey if it works good it will be worth it. I am gonna try mine in the next couple days
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Not to beat a dead horse but the only really good white that does what you want it to, is the one you modify yourself. Pick a brand, and startadding modifiers. Track what you added and just keep fiddling until you find a mix that works right.
I'm using Epic quick white and I'm having great results with it so far with minimal modifiers.
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Not to beat a dead horse but the only really good white that does what you want it to, is the one you modify yourself. Pick a brand, and startadding modifiers. Track what you added and just keep fiddling until you find a mix that works right.
I'm using Epic quick white and I'm having great results with it so far with minimal modifiers.
you know, that is a good point. I am hoping though that since there are so many of them out there that one is close to what I need. If not, I will have to go your route. But it sounds like I can get exactly what I want if I mix it myself!
pierre
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Our problem with puff is we deposit enough ink as it is with our mesh selections and stencil thickness that if we print a white with any puff, it is very noticeable. WM Plastics Ultimate was unbelievable when I tried it, it literally looked like it had a good % of puff additive.
I've used Triangle's Phoenix and it is a decent all around ink. I wouldn't mind going back to it at all and if the streetfighter doesn't work out then I might just do that. It's got decent bleed resistance but not as good as triangle excel, which I also liked quite a bit. Unfortunately, I don't know exactly which streetfighter we have, it says SF LB on the bucket but it's from a supplier who uses their own labels and buckets so they don't label it exactly the same as Rutland does.
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Homer send me some buffalo white very nice printing ink, but dang I hate having so many gal of inks "white" I thought for a sec Sonny had a good but the next gal I used flopped. WM Plastics utilmate white is a good stand alone white for me and thats what I keep it around for since has some puff in it.
Darryl
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Pierre, I am using Wilflex Quick white and it is nice. I have used about 3 gallons and I have no problems. It does have a tint of blue to it. I didn't like that when I saw it the first time. The prints look white not tinted blue. I put some reducer in it not much. It is stickier than I like but it prints really well on the auto. I am printing it really fast right now. 165 mesh first down, flood 6, print 6, with a winged flood bar, about 2.5 - 3 pressure 7 for angle, soft flood.
Tony, Have you used Quick white? How does it compare to street fighter white?
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one thing I do not wish to fight is the consistency. With some of my customers being as picky as they are, the ink has to be right on every time.
On a similar note, yesterday we had to go through 4 different ink color adjustments just to print an order that we already did about a dozen times without a problem. I think that switching to phthalate free inks is just reeking havoc on all my colors and the ink seems to print differently on different substrate. It was OK before as the originals were all printed with the same ink and when we printed the reorders, ti all looked the same. Now what's happening is when I mix the cool gray 11, it looks like cool gray 11 in the tub, but when printed on the thermals, hoodies and T-shirts, the results are different from what they used to be and we are having to resample and mix inks until we get it right. After two hours of dicking around today, I finally said it's enough and we are printing everything with the formula from the book. The customer is going to have a heart attack, but we can't have 10 different cool gray 11's and take 4 hours to print 36 shirts!
It seems to me that Union is changing some of their formulas and I am losing the consistency I had before. We have an old gallon of original white we used last year and will run some sim process jobs with it tomorrow. That will tell us exactly what is going on. I'll drop Union a line, but want to confirm my results first (just to make sure we did not mess something else up and are blaming it on the ink!
anyways, sorry for the rant . . .
pierre
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Gerry - Yes that is normal! I know it's odd, but it doesn't effect anything.
Pierre - I'll get your info and get a sample shipped out to you soon! We offer $9.99 flat rate shipping on all orders so it's not too bad at all!
Alan - Don't you miss the G4? It was a very good white.
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I wish ink companies had to put formula numbers on the buckets. Kind of like carpet companies have die lots. This way we know something changed.
I am just afriad when I find the perfect white it will change.
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I am just afriad when I find the perfect white it will change.
If the past tells us the future, it will change the moment you decide it's the right one to use.
The desire to only have a single white for the shop is nice but really not the best way to go about it. We need to have a LB ink and a cotton ink to meet our needs. When they mix them together for a 'one size fits all' desire.. you get a product like spandex and we all know how well that fits the general public.
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Not to beat a dead horse but the only really good white that does what you want it to, is the one you modify yourself. Pick a brand, and startadding modifiers. Track what you added and just keep fiddling until you find a mix that works right.
I'm using Epic quick white and I'm having great results with it so far with minimal modifiers.
You should QW's little brother Epic Sprint. I use both but the Sprint prints a lot nicer than the QW.
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You should QW's little brother Epic Sprint. I use both but the Sprint prints a lot nicer than the QW.
Got a gallon sitting right here I've yet to tap into.
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Does anybody use "Rutland Street Fighter White Low Bleed Ink" and what is their feedback on it?
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Alan - Don't you miss the G4? It was a very good white.
You have no idea how much I miss it.
Does anybody use "Rutland Street Fighter White Low Bleed Ink" and what is their feedback on it?
I'm sampling a gallon of it right now and it's not bad at all. My printer likes it more than the snap white and we've been using that for about a month.
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White inks are like a box of chocolates you never know what you get from gal to gal.
Darryl
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we just cracked open the Triangle Phoenix white, nice and creamy, you guys may want to investigate this one a bit more. From memory, One Stroke LB Premium was a pretty nice white as well, the price just got out of hand for me -but I may look at that again too. . .someday. . now that I have realized cost is nothing but a number.
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One stroke EJ speical white auto was my go to for a long time. I might re-investigate that one.
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I guess I'll reach in here.... We are contract printers. We print for a very wide spectrum of clients and their customers.
We have been using Triangle Phoenix exclusively for well over 10 years. I now buy it in drums. I have bought 10-15 drums of it this year alone - we use alot of it. (I've printed over 1.2 million shirts this year) It seems to work across most substrates without an issue, quick flash, good laydown, good washibility, good with 100% or 50/50/ cotton, ect. We use their Poly white for 100% polyester.
Yes, occasionally some poly shirts bleed through. On the ones that bleed through, we have tried EVERY TRICK WE HAVE to make it stop - sometimes it's just the garment. (I have every other poly here for this kind if testing when we need to try to fix an issue but these issues are very rare)
I like the idea of "one white" in my shop - (and the poly for special issues). It keeps confusion to a minimum. At this pace, we don't have the time to be a lab or testing facility for different inks or processes. Sometimes a good price gets in the way of timely production. Cheap isn't always the solution.
I'm not in any way affiliated with Triangle Ink.
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Glad to hear others out there are having great success with Phoenix White... Pierre, you will have to share with us how it works for you once you try it out!
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OK, so I have the Streetfighter and Phoenix on the way. We'll test and I'll let you know.
Still open to some other suggestions.
pierre
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Hey Pierre,
Your issue with the phthalate-free or phthalate-compliant inks may be due in part to the increased coverage these ink supposedly have. I wouldn't know the difference as we were phthalate-free from the start but that's what I've heard is that they have higher coverage. You may have to decrease the thickness of the deposit using these inks from the old ones or perhaps introduce a little transparency to certain mixes.
I feel your pain, we switched ink systems (though both were phthalate-free) this year and it's funny how far off the the results between them can be when printing PMS colors. At this point, I'm re-approving swatches for most jobs just to be safe, I've had a couple of color issues already after the switch and those mistakes are expensive.
Regarding modifying white ink- we print straight out of the bucket, mixed well and warmed up. I have to mostly disagree that you need to make up your own white formula. We do have another bucket with a percentage of Fashion Base and a little bit of viscoity buster mixed in for jobs where we want a different hand or need a slightly thinner white on lighter cotton only and typically for sim process type of prints but this is fairly rare. Your main white should clear well through all your mesh counts without modification and ought to be very consistent from bucket to bucket in my opinion. There's just so many variables already and seeing how white ink is inherently a bit of a struggle to work with I want the ink to be a static variable. Just my take on that, your own experience will certainly be unique.
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Anybody checked out this Warrior White yet? I also attached the Quick White tds for comparison.
I can't really see the difference between the two on paper.
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Just did a price check and the Warrior is nearly half the price of the Quick. I'm not one to buy on price but at $36/gal by the 5er I may check it out just to see.
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I like the fact the Ron has great success with the triangle Pheonix. . .time to stop screwing around with so many damn inks and print. I do not modify white, if you have to modify to make it print, you are using the wrong ink for the job, IMO. . .
so far today, many good words were spoken of the pheonix, usually there's a "WTF is this, cement?!" . . .guys here like it.
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Yea I wasn't going to say anything on this but I agree with Zoo. For one, it's a real time waster to constantly be making your own "white du jour".
If you find a white that you like and can consistently print with it, personally I'd stick with that ink. Also the inherent properties of the ink like viscosity, bleed resistance and opacity will change, so unless you're making your own white the same way it's time proven, then I wouldn't bother with modifiers unless for an extreme situation. There are so many choices for white, find one that can be printed well and with good results straight out of the bucket and leave the formulating to the ink companies. That's just my opinion on the matter.
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Int Coatings 7031 Ultra white is short bodied, soft and very opaque. We run different pressures for different things, but it will print with very low pressure 1.5-2 bar in the right scenario. It has moderate low bleed properties, I don't use it on bad 50/50 bleeders like red, maroon, sapphire but it's fine on black, navy, royal and others that don't bleed horribly. Use it a lot for sim process UB's.
If you like a little puff, try Wilflex Buffalo, used that for probably 5 years, went to the IC to get away from the puff. I'd say Buffalo is about the same as the 7031 on bleed resistance.
I agree 7031 is a great ink. short bodied and very easy to print. I started out using the Ryonet white which is made by IC but I dont know which one it is but whatever it is I dont like that Ryonet white.
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I mentioned to Pierre earlier today that we are not in the ink mixing business we are in the printing business. Dulling powders, reducers, stretch additives and the like should be around to use in a pinch but not an everyday practice. Too much "ink tinkering" can lead to cross-contamination and before you know it you don't know whats in the bucket. There is a good selection of whites that work perfectly fine out of the bucket. Triangle's Phoenix has long been heralded as the one to beat but it can be price prohibitive for some. Nike pretty much insisted on using it so we had that and an economy white that was practically as good at half the price. Of course if a more expensive product is saving money by enabling increased throughput then it is worth it.
Finally and unfortunately, the ink is often misdiagnosed as the rot of a problem. Often other overlooked pre-press varibles and print parameters are the cause.
Good subject, I believe it comes in second only to mesh tensions when it comes to opinions.
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Too much "ink tinkering" can lead to cross-contamination and before you know it you don't know whats in the bucket.
we have too many different whites and a high turnover of employees... one day i got fed up and dumped the random white inks into a 5g bucket.
wilflex solar white for everyday use
union 1070 polywhite for 100% polyester,
50/50 mix of solar and 1070 white for 50/50 shirts and fleece,
50/50 mix of solar and soft hand clear,
random mixes of white and fashion soft/nova/soft hand clear...
after a few minutes in the ink shaker my stress level went down 100%
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Tony, I agree! I love talking screens and tension, I also believe this is the most important step in the entire screen printing process. Too many times products are blamed for a printer's problems when the problem usually is in the screen.
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The "screen wars" could only be preceded by the "auto wars" ;D
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Let's do battle!!!
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Just a couple notes about Whites. I of course would recommend Epic Quick White for a Low Bleed White. It is short bodied, creamy and can clear a range of mesh counts. IT is also smooth and has a great matte finish with extremely fast flash times. The Little Sister or Brother to Epic Quick White is Epic Sprint White. It has the same qualities as Epic Quick White, but it is a cotton white, so it doesn't have bleed resistance.
Epic Warrior White is a new white that was released. It also has great properties, but is a bit less Matte Finish and will not flash quite as fast. I suggest testing it as well.
I agree with using white straight out of the bucket. Ink manufacturers design inks to be used that way and to use modifiers as needed, ie a soft hand application or extra stretch.
Other things to think about when choosing white is what do you generally print on. If you generally print on 100% cotton garments, then there is no need to have an ink that has bleed resistance. You are not only wasting money, but in rare occasions you may see ghosting. How warm is your ink before you are testing it? How much have you mixed the ink? Inks are thixotropic and the more you move them the better they flow. Are you following the print guidelines for that particular white?
Not every ink is created equally, it is important to look at ink specifications and make sure you are following the manufacturers recommendations. This will ensure optimum performance.
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QUICK UPDATE:
Tony is not full of it!!! (as we all know by now!). We ran 500 pieces with Rutland Streefighter LB white this morning. 'was very pleased with it! This was only one job, and we'll have to test with sim and 50/50, but so far so good. It is most definitely the type of ink I was looking for. At one point we had it stroking at 4 (on a 10 scale) which is the fastes we have printed with the white ink.
The coverage was very nice (very large area, fuzzy ringspun cotton) and it cleared comparably to what were were used to before. Possibly even a little better. The print was two strokes of white through a 160. We preheated the plattens to get the ink flowing and maintained a little bit of flash to keep everything warm.
stay tuned for more prints and more inks. . . .
pierre
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Pierre,
Is the Street Fighter white sticky? Did you modify it at all? I am using the Quick white and I add some reducer and I have it printing and flooding at 5 or 6 on may of my runs. (I have used 3 gallons of Quick white so far) I remember getting a sample of Street fighter white and I liked it alot. It only came in 5 gallons so at the time I didn't get any past the sample.
Jon
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QUICK UPDATE:
Tony is not full of it!!! (as we all know by now!). We ran 500 pieces with Rutland Streefighter LB white this morning. 'was very pleased with it! This was only one job, and we'll have to test with sim and 50/50, but so far so good. It is most definitely the type of ink I was looking for. At one point we had it stroking at 4 (on a 10 scale) which is the fastes we have printed with the white ink.
The coverage was very nice (very large area, fuzzy ringspun cotton) and it cleared comparably to what were were used to before. Possibly even a little better. The print was two strokes of white through a 160. We preheated the plattens to get the ink flowing and maintained a little bit of flash to keep everything warm.
stay tuned for more prints and more inks. . . .
pierre
So was it a double stroke that got it to clear? I have a gallon of Street fighter II (LB) and that stuff is thicker than crap.
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Pierre,
Is the Street Fighter white sticky? Did you modify it at all? I am using the Quick white and I add some reducer and I have it printing and flooding at 5 or 6 on may of my runs. (I have used 3 gallons of Quick white so far) I remember getting a sample of Street fighter white and I liked it alot. It only came in 5 gallons so at the time I didn't get any past the sample.
Jon
I did not modify it at all. Printed it straight out of the bucket, but we did make sure to warm everything up and slowly build up speed. The replacement white we were trying out would not clear even under those circumstances. Ross ran into the same problem with the same ink, so it is not just us.
From what I have seen, any white that will flood or clear on a 5 or 6 is not really delivering the results we are after. This is not to say that you might not be getting it, just that we are not. We have tried inks suggested by other printers and were getting horrible results with some of them.
This ink is pretty stiff, but very usable. While it did stay together between the squeegee and the floodbar, it did not climb.
pierre
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Pierre or anyone else,
I know this is hard to know that I am talking about...Does the print feel rubbery soft after the print does thru the dryer? I have been really happy with the feel of the wilflex quick white ink after its printed. Its the only ink so far that I have tried that feels rubbery soft. Alot of inks I have used can print a nice thin glass like print but they are not rubbery soft like the Quick white. (I hope I don't sound too stupid here)
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QUICK UPDATE:
Tony is not full of it!!! (as we all know by now!). We ran 500 pieces with Rutland Streefighter LB white this morning. 'was very pleased with it! This was only one job, and we'll have to test with sim and 50/50, but so far so good. It is most definitely the type of ink I was looking for. At one point we had it stroking at 4 (on a 10 scale) which is the fastes we have printed with the white ink.
The coverage was very nice (very large area, fuzzy ringspun cotton) and it cleared comparably to what were were used to before. Possibly even a little better. The print was two strokes of white through a 160. We preheated the plattens to get the ink flowing and maintained a little bit of flash to keep everything warm.
stay tuned for more prints and more inks. . . .
pierre
So was it a double stroke that got it to clear? I have a gallon of Street fighter II (LB) and that stuff is thicker than crap.
this print was on ringspun Anvils (490). I have quite a bit of experience with them. One of our award winning prints is on it as are the shop shirts we printed for ourselves. I don't think I've ever managed to clear the white screen on that shirt in one swipe. It is just too lofty/fuzzy. So getting it to clear and lay down nicely on this particular shirt was a huge plus (compared to the last few inks we have been using).
The ink is rather thick, but really not that bad at all. I think a better description would be dense. One of the hings I was looking for is the sharp edges when the ink is pulled out of the bucket. Stuff we have been using sort of dulls out and stretches. It is sort of like the bubble gum. The first white we used if you pulled the spatula out, it broke rather than stretched and it left multiple peaks and valleys at the breaking point. Wilflex Epic performance white did the same thing, I guess I'll have to check it out a little bit more (I think it was supposed to be really expensive so I did not consider it).
We are printing some navy shirts now and using it as an underbase. It look pretty good. The coverage is not as good as the inks with puff, but it is better than acceptable. Shirley (our press operator) is digging it so far and was just saying how nice it prints.
So, another quick recap, it floods and strokes faster than what I am used to. It clears/shears nicely. The coverage is better than average, but not spectacular. It is low bleed so potentially can be used for everything but the heaviest of the bleeders. The color is very cool white (bluish). The print looks very consistent and the edges are very crisp. Finish is not glossy, but not as satin as I am used to. The top color on the underbase looks very nice and smooth.
stay tuned, more to come. . .
pierre
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later in this run, the ink started climbing and we could not get a hard flood. 'did not have the time to tinker with it, so we finished printing the way it was. I'll have to see what it takes to keep it on the screen. . .
pierre
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later in this run, the ink started climbing and we could not get a hard flood. 'did not have the time to tinker with it, so we finished printing the way it was. I'll have to see what it takes to keep it on the screen. . .
pierre
That's the issue I had with the Snap white. The more you use it, the shorter the body gets then you don't get a good fill in the stencil because all of the ink is on the back of the squeegee. I know it's not good to be part of the white ink of the month club but why is it so hard to find a white that's does everything really well? I've been able to make any white look good but I'm picky and want everything to be the way I like it. I want great opacity, the right body and slump characteristics so it doesn't climb the squeegee and fast flash times...is that not possible anymore? The SF LB is not bad at all, I'm going to buy more because it's the best for the price out of all the inks I've tried but damn, trying two dozen different whites since July is ridiculous. I'm so sick of sampling white ink, I'm about ready to take a chance and buy the Ultrasol G4 straight from Mexico.
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The company i used to work for many many years ago a supplier sold Triangle inks as well as Union and Rutland. Phoenix white was by far the largest quantity white sold, and we sold to some serious print shops. 5 gals and barrels every day all day long. I used the ink for years and still would if the supplier near by did not go out of business, today I just cant justify buying one product from somewhere when I can shop some where else and get all I need.
Any ways I give a thumbs up for Triangles phoenix it is the closest i have ever had to near perfect all around white.
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we have been going through about a gallon of white a week- Pheonix White wins. I love Buffalo and quick white, but there was always something lacking. I manually printed with pheonix today, prints like any other color, we ran t's and hoodies on the auto -1 pass on a 160. I'm done searching. and to be honest, I really didn't want to like it because I had an issue with triangle back in the day, but this stuff is fantastic. I'm sold.
P -I noticed you are not saying white white you were using. . .
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P -I noticed you are not saying white white you were using. . .
And it seems like he wants to, come on Pierre, throw them to the wolves :) Just kidding, I understand completely, I've been in a few situations similar.
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no secret, I have said this before. . . We used to use the EZ Print white from Union ink. While it seems that the formula for the phthalate version changed (or I received a bad batch), the reality is, we are moving to the phthalte free inks and the version they have is just not cutting it. As time goes by they might adjust it and make it work better, but right now it does not work for us. Again, please remember, just because it does not work for us, it does not mean that it will not work for you. We are still pretty new to this and from the limited experience so far, I am pretty darn certain that we are pushing too hard with the squeegees. Somebody with better or different technique might not have any of the issues we do. For example, many knowledgeable ppl have recommended the Russel gray and we could not make it work if our life depended on it! So as with most other things in this industry, your mileage WILL vary.
Joe from Union promised to stop by the shop in the near future and I'll have him look at everything we do. All our inks are made by Union and I would prefer to stay with their product. But as of right now, we need a phthalate free white that works.
pierre
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Is Phoenix pthalate compliant?
Damnit why am I asking. We're sticking with Quick. We're sticking with Quick. We're sticking with Quick.
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later in this run, the ink started climbing and we could not get a hard flood. 'did not have the time to tinker with it, so we finished printing the way it was. I'll have to see what it takes to keep it on the screen. . .
pierre
That's the issue I had with the Snap white. The more you use it, the shorter the body gets then you don't get a good fill in the stencil because all of the ink is on the back of the squeegee. I know it's not good to be part of the white ink of the month club but why is it so hard to find a white that's does everything really well? I've been able to make any white look good but I'm picky and want everything to be the way I like it. I want great opacity, the right body and slump characteristics so it doesn't climb the squeegee and fast flash times...is that not possible anymore? The SF LB is not bad at all, I'm going to buy more because it's the best for the price out of all the inks I've tried but damn, trying two dozen different whites since July is ridiculous. I'm so sick of sampling white ink, I'm about ready to take a chance and buy the Ultrasol G4 straight from Mexico.
I thought you were ok with qcm 158 and mixing a little soft hand in with it as necessary? That's what I'm still doing and just got a new 5 gal bucket in and it has a little stiffer consistency but is still predictable to print.
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Is Phoenix pthalate compliant?
Damnit why am I asking. We're sticking with Quick. We're sticking with Quick. We're sticking with Quick.
huh, you got me thinking now! Damn, I think you are right, it is not!
pj
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yes it is - you have to order the 1701 PF, they make 2 versions. it is a little pricey, but we had 4 different whites and can go down to one, so in reality the cost is not an issue at all.
http://triangleink.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/1701-PF.pdf (http://triangleink.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/1701-PF.pdf)
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yes it is - you have to order the 1701 PF, they make 2 versions. it is a little pricey, but we had 4 different whites and can go down to one, so in reality the cost is not an issue at all.
[url]http://triangleink.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/1701-PF.pdf[/url] ([url]http://triangleink.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/1701-PF.pdf[/url])
ahhh, cool! Now I have to check and find out which one I ordered!!!
pierre
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I thought you were ok with qcm 158 and mixing a little soft hand in with it as necessary? That's what I'm still doing and just got a new 5 gal bucket in and it has a little stiffer consistency but is still predictable to print.
I like the 158 and 159, 159 is more opaque and probably more suited for our style of printing but when I was adding the soft hand, the opacity was suffering more than I wanted, then I just get into the mode where I don't want to have to mess with every gallon, I want it good right out of the bucket. If I could find the right additive to reduce the squeegee climb without affecting the opacity I'd probably stick with the 159. Curable reducer doesn't do it, soft hand clear kills the opacity and I don't really have a supplier for Wilflex right now so I can't try the fashion base, but it seems like all of the additives reduce the opacity a noticeable amount. It is a good fast flashing ink but such a PITA to work with.
The more we start talking about the phoenix, the more I want to just go back to it. It's really solid, and the Triangle Excel is almost identical but different smell and more bleed resistance but pretty pricey for using as an all purpose white.
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I am using the same QCM inks, But I stir in a little NON-CUREABLE reducer. Yes, be careful with the percentage and by all means TEST. You cant use much of this stuff at all, almost just a splash in each gallon...but because you are using very little it has minimal effect on opacity. It give the ink just enough shearability and wont climb as badly.
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Well shucks, we're happy with Epic Quick but I'm gonn try a sample of Phoenix PF before this 5er runs out, can't help myself.
Is Phoenix more or less matte after cure than Quick? I like the matte finish myself and quick is pretty good in that dept.
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I like the matte finish myself and quick is pretty good in that dept.
FYI, if you want to make an ink matte, add Dulling Paste by Wilflex. You simply add it to the ink and it will dull the finish. DullPaste QEC Dulling Paste:
Add up to 5% by weight to reduce gloss.
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I like the matte finish myself and quick is pretty good in that dept.
FYI, if you want to make an ink matte, add Dulling Paste by Wilflex. You simply add it to the ink and it will dull the finish. DullPaste QEC Dulling Paste:
Add up to 5% by weight to reduce gloss.
I'll check it out. WFX Epic had been fairly matte in finish across the board so far though. Anyone know what Dulling Paste actually is and how it alters the ink? Colin, you still around?
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I have a gallon of the wilflex dulling paste, it's like grade school paste. I had to make a matte red, and I think I used over 1/4 of a gallon before I saw any results. I had better luck adding a bit of puff. Zoo, if you want some try try, I will scoop you a cup.
When I get to the shop, I will grab a print form the pheonix and see if it passes for matte, I like it matte too, so it must not be gloss or I would have said something. I have some quick here too, I will make a print and compare.
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P -if you got to triangle's website, you can fill out a form and get a free sample. i have a gallon here as a sample I have yet to try. Last time I opened a gallon of Phoenix white it was so thick I couldn't mix it, that was a few years back.
[url]http://triangleink.com/request-free-sample/[/url] ([url]http://triangleink.com/request-free-sample/[/url])
I am a member of the "white of the month club". . I hate white inks, I never know what to buy. I am a different printer than you so my suggestions are irrelevant.
Has anyone got a reply or their free sample yet?
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Has anyone got a reply or their free sample yet?
I got a pint of Phoenix White few weeks ago
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we had a chance to test the Phoenix. It is exactly what we were looking for, but it has phthalates. :'(
We did get a bucket of the PF to try out and will give it a shot this week. First impression just by looking into the bucket, it exhibits all the right signs. The ink is definitely not gooey like most other PF inks we tried.
pierre
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Pierre,
We have used Streetfighter inks for years and have had great success. I would worn you though from using a low bleed ink for all of your printing. One day you will experience ghosting and your whole order will be ruined. Plus low bleed inks do not print as easliy as cotton inks so you are really fighting yourself.
A couple of suggestions with the non phthalate inks. If the image area is small and little ink is getting used up only a small amount of ink in the screen and keep adding. The heat will cause the ink to gum up in the screen like clay then you will have to stop the press and clean/scrub out the screen. This is for most colors, especially colors that contain a lot of white. Also, against traditional wisdom, more off contact is your friend. Non phthalate inks are very sticky and tend to have a lot more buildup so we have better success with higher off contact than we used with the old inks.
With the volume of inks you are using I would recommend have Cotton, Low Bleed, and Super Poly inks on hand.
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8 years in the biz still haven't found a white I've been excited about but I do like Excalubur 50/50 for poly blends.
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With the volume of inks you are using I would recommend have Cotton, Low Bleed, and Super Poly inks on hand.
Yepp!!
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I've been a fan of IC's 711--until they went to pthalate compliant formulas. I'm currently in the same boat, LOL "white of the month club" is a great description. More like test 5 whites a month now while we're slow. :)
The thing that gets me is pretty much exactly what Alan described--squeegee climb, and chunky fill strokes.
Mr Tees:
I kept thinking maybe an unbalanced reducer would help get the proper print characteristics, but obviously opens another can of worms with production and compliance. What kind of percentage are you doing? 1-2?
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...yeah, thats about right, probably 2%. Ive been using it for so long I can literally add a "controlled splash" into a gallon and mix it. I always test the first print from each gallon, though.
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we had a chance to test the Phoenix. It is exactly what we were looking for, but it has phthalates. :'(
We did get a bucket of the PF to try out and will give it a shot this week. First impression just by looking into the bucket, it exhibits all the right signs. The ink is definitely not gooey like most other PF inks we tried.
pierre
Pierre, how do you like StreetFighter? I got mine in today, and getting ready to use it on my next job. I ordered regular cotton version of the ink, and also they have sent me a small sample of a LB version to try.
Do you have a certificate for these? If not, I will contact Rutland and ask them to send me one. These are Phthalate free inks.
I was kind of getting tired of waiting for Xenon certificate and decided to switch white inks.
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we had a chance to test the Phoenix. It is exactly what we were looking for, but it has phthalates. :'(
We did get a bucket of the PF to try out and will give it a shot this week. First impression just by looking into the bucket, it exhibits all the right signs. The ink is definitely not gooey like most other PF inks we tried.
pierre
Pierre, how do you like StreetFighter? I got mine in today, and getting ready to use it on my next job. I ordered regular cotton version of the ink, and also they have sent me a small sample of a LB version to try.
Do you have a certificate for these? If not, I will contact Rutland and ask them to send me one. These are Phthalate free inks.
I was kind of getting tired of waiting for Xenon certificate and decided to switch white inks.
I like the streefighter we tried. It was the Low Bleed version. It printed nice and it had a really good balance between short bodied and squeegee climbing (it sheared nicely and it did not climb). We are not going with it though as it does not have (or not enough) puff in it. The coverage we were getting was just not opaque enough.
After talking to several ppl yesterday, I believe our need for puff is related to the lack of rubber on the MHM plattens. Nothing wrong with the ink, just it does not print as well on the bare metal.
As far as the certificate, I do not have one. Make sure you are not using those to stay compliant, as they are not what CPSIA is calling for. They are a "nice to have" rather than a must have.
pierre
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Streetfighter good.....I use the LB on everything. Good price also.
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As far as the certificate, I do not have one. Make sure you are not using those to stay compliant, as they are not what CPSIA is calling for. They are a "nice to have" rather than a must have.
pierre
I like to have at least something if there is ever a question about the shirts I print/sell.
Tony Chapman from Rutland sent me their statement which is now posted on the forum. Real certificates will be on a batch basis.
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How is Streetfighter for manual printing? Anyone have any experience?
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How is Streetfighter for manual printing? Anyone have any experience?
I will let you know soon :)
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We are using the Streetfighter LB right now. I got a sample of Excalibur the other day and it was ok. Not good enough to make a switch from SF.
Pierre, if you are close to finding the right white, why not just add a little puff additive till you get to where you want it? That's basically what we are doing with the SF. I'm adding a slight bit of some really opaque, long bodied poly white from Rutland to the SF to make a pretty killer white ink. It's an easy mixture that I'll make with every new gallon we open and it takes a few minutes and I'm done.
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We are using the Streetfighter LB right now. I got a sample of Excalibur the other day and it was ok. Not good enough to make a switch from SF.
Pierre, if you are close to finding the right white, why not just add a little puff additive till you get to where you want it? That's basically what we are doing with the SF. I'm adding a slight bit of some really opaque, long bodied poly white from Rutland to the SF to make a pretty killer white ink. It's an easy mixture that I'll make with every new gallon we open and it takes a few minutes and I'm done.
we might be going that route, but would like to check all my options first. There is an off chance that we'll find something that works without modifying and I'd like to pursue that before committing to mixing. We have Rick Roth coming in for a consulting trip in next few weeks, and I'll have him look at what we are doing. This way I'll know we are not just chasing a pipe dream.
pierre
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I tried over 30 different whites in 2011, yes, there are actually more than that and I didn't try them all, but I can say with more than a little confidence, that there isn't one out there that I really love straight out of the bucket. I've just given up and have decided to find an ink that has like 90% of what I'm looking for, then another ink that has that additional 10% that I need, then mixing those 2 inks together to get my formula. That Rutland poly is perfect to mix with those really short bodied inks. I think mixing that poly with the qcm 159 might give me a really badass white but I don't have any 159 in the shop right now.
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Hey Andy, have you tried the (Epic) Quick? I admittedly haven't tried it manually
but I used to love the regular Quick through a 180, and the Epic seems even softer on the auto.
Also in local thread hijacking news I convinced Denco to bring in some more CCI stuff.
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Hey Andy, have you tried the (Epic) Quick? I admittedly haven't tried it manually
but I used to love the regular Quick through a 180, and the Epic seems even softer on the auto.
Also in local thread hijacking news I convinced Denco to bring in some more CCI stuff.
Quick prints really nice on a manual. We use both Quick and the Sprint White. The Sprint is awesome on on the auto. I have run about 20 gallons of it and I really like it. We have used Quick White for a while now and the Sprint Prints better in my opinion straight out of the bucket.
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P -did you ever try the PF Phoenix white? I have a sample quart, have yet to crack it open. We still like the phoenix, it's expensive, but worth it. We will see how it holds up in the cold weather we are getting here, so far it's really creamy, shears like a magic and I am sure the new rollers are helping out too.
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Hey Andy, have you tried the (Epic) Quick? I admittedly haven't tried it manually
but I used to love the regular Quick through a 180, and the Epic seems even softer on the auto.
Also in local thread hijacking news I convinced Denco to bring in some more CCI stuff.
I assume that Epic is their compliant ink.
Never Quick, for the last couple of years, I have used their Artist on cotton.
However, the last order I made from another Wilflex distributor didn't have it or Wilflex's suggested alternative (whatever it was, so I went with the Xenon for both 50/50 and cotton.
Once I put the whack on it with reducer or soft hand base, it doesn't climb as badly, but I still prefer getting inks locally or at least from someone with a reasonable minimum for shipping.
I was happy with IC Low Vis 774, but it's discontinued. Two attempts at obtaining samples of their suggested alternatives were fruitless.
Perhaps I'll also look into CCI plastisol if that comes into Denco.
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P -did you ever try the PF Phoenix white? I have a sample quart, have yet to crack it open. We still like the phoenix, it's expensive, but worth it. We will see how it holds up in the cold weather we are getting here, so far it's really creamy, shears like a magic and I am sure the new rollers are helping out too.
really liked the phoenix, it printed great. If I wasn't looking for PF ink , it would be my first choice. 'did not get a chance to try the PF version yet. Will post something when we do. I just might wait and try it when Rick gets here.
pierre
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Hey Andy, have you tried the (Epic) Quick? I admittedly haven't tried it manually
but I used to love the regular Quick through a 180, and the Epic seems even softer on the auto.
Also in local thread hijacking news I convinced Denco to bring in some more CCI stuff.
I assume that Epic is their compliant ink.
Never Quick, for the last couple of years, I have used their Artist on cotton.
However, the last order I made from another Wilflex distributor didn't have it or Wilflex's suggested alternative (whatever it was, so I went with the Xenon for both 50/50 and cotton.
Once I put the whack on it with reducer or soft hand base, it doesn't climb as badly, but I still prefer getting inks locally or at least from someone with a reasonable minimum for shipping.
I was happy with IC Low Vis 774, but it's discontinued. Two attempts at obtaining samples of their suggested alternatives were fruitless.
Perhaps I'll also look into CCI plastisol if that comes into Denco.
Frog,
You can order Direct from CCI. Shipping for you should be next to nothing. Almost all of my Chemicals are from them. I get alot locally but I did do an order directly from them. I know their distributors don't like that they sell to us directly.
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I had a CCI rep call me yesterday and is supposed to be emailing a price list but have not seen it just yet.
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Frog,
You can order Direct from CCI. Shipping for you should be next to nothing. Almost all of my Chemicals are from them. I get alot locally but I did do an order directly from them. I know their distributors don't like that they sell to us directly.
Next to nothing on a gallon of ink is still going to be at least $12, even from SoCal.
I get free delivery from my CCI dealer, Denco, or a close-by pick-up when needed.
I am presently using their SG-2 Press Wash, Liquid Re-Nuit, PFX-HV Emulsion, and SR-97 Spotting Fluid. The emulsion came from them directly on a 2/1 deal, so the shipping was justified.
I may be calling on Monday and seeing what they have as ink samples.
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pierre, i currently run the streetfighter white and pheonix. i have been using pheonix white for 20 years on and off. kevin up at triangle is a super guy and will give you great direct pricing. they also have the best black i have ever used called BATMAN BLACK.
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How is Streetfighter for manual printing? Anyone have any experience?
Frog.
Printed about 50 shirts last night with StreetFighter Cotton. I like it.
White on black, 155 mesh, PFP comes out pretty nice.
I had to adjust a bit (Higher angle, closer to 90 degrees to the palet / ) but after that, last 40 shirts went smooth.
I will try the LB next.
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pierre, i currently run the streetfighter white and pheonix. i have been using pheonix white for 20 years on and off. kevin up at triangle is a super guy and will give you great direct pricing. they also have the best black i have ever used called BATMAN BLACK.
thanx! I do like the Phoenix, but we are still to test the Phathalate free version. I also had a chance to talk to somebody from Rutland and they gave me some tips on what to try. Rick did not make it last week (family emergency) so we will do the testing when he gets here.
As far as black ink, I've tried several and am very happy with the Unimatch from Union. It is part of the mixing system, but it also covers very well and is easy to print with. Some inks I tried did not work very well when printed on top of other inks so we are sticking with this one. Thanx for the heads up though!
I should also give a shout out to Tance for working with me and being very helpful all around. He provided the Phoenix and PF Phoenix whites. We also found the on press screen wash we will be ordering from him from now on.
pierre
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Anyone know how the Rutland street fighter compares to QCM 158/159 or Wilflex epic quick white on the auto?
Thanks!
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I switched from Epic Quick to SF and haven't looked back. Everyones different though
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Rutland contact for samples?
Then I need to find who deals. Not crazy about the semi local dealer since they bought out my old guy.
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Tony Chapman from Rutland is in Pineville, NC. He's who I talk to but he's hard to get a hold of. Use the 800 on the website.
If not just try cust svc. They should hook you up with a W/C supplier. BTW they are rolling out a new opaque product for Tri blends called HSV.
Rick Stefanik tipped me off about it.
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Tony Chapman from Rutland is in Pineville, NC. He's who I talk to but he's hard to get a hold of. Use the 800 on the website.
If not just try cust svc. They should hook you up with a W/C supplier. BTW they are rolling out a new opaque product for Tri blends called HSV.
Rick Stefanik tipped me off about it.
Thanks Tony. I'm out of the Rutland loop. I haven't used Rutland in more than seven or eight years. They used to warehouse on the peninsula and supply through Screen Printing Products in San Ramon, way back when, Then SPP began to stock almost everything, but then they moved to Benicia, then sold out to Screen Printers Resource, which then moved to Hayward, and now Dave is just an equipment dealer with his old company name back.
Whew!
DK just reminded me that our buddy Lance and Calibrated deals Rutland. Since his stuff is all stocked "virtually" anyway, his shipping is reasonable.
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Hey Frog, I dont know where I read it but I think I read that Dave is making a comeback into the supply business.
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Anyone know how the Rutland street fighter compares to QCM 158/159 or Wilflex epic quick white on the auto?
Thanks!
I have used a ton of the SF LB, 158 and 159 recently. The 159 is the most opaque out of them all, but it's not worth using on the auto. Squeegee climber of the year award for the 159. I like using the SF over the qcm's because of the climbing issue isn't near as bad on the SF, but it doesn't cover quite as good as the 159. It's on par with the 158 in opacity actually, without the climbing.
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So is the QCM ink out there actually being produced by Rutland now or is it just back-stock everyone's going through? It appears that Rutland figured out and, from the sound of it, improved the rubber-based formula. Not sure about plastisol.
A white just for fuzzy-ass ring spun blends? Sounds like our dream ink. Will definitely be checking that out.
I have a sample request for some phthalate-free Phoenix. Now we play the waiting game.....
For now, I'm sure that Epic Quick isn't the best thing on the block necessarily but it gets 'er done admirably on most jobs. Nice hand to the finished print but it could be just a little whiter in my opinion, I miss that about 159.
What does Street Fighter LB improve upon compared to Quick? And is Rutland consistent? That's what I really like about Wilflex- every batch is the same so far.
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I really need to try some Epic Quick, but I don't use a supplier that carries Wilflex and I'm not got back to my old supplier who did carry it. Out of all the whites I've tried recently none of them have been Wilflex.
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I have tried alot of whites and I have even modified whites to make them better for me. I have to say Wilflex Quick white (manually or auto) is the best so far for me. I didn't like it at first but when I was done with that first gallon I liked it a lot. I am now working on a Five of it and I think the five is better than the gallon. (I think the gallon was sitting around for a long time. The place I got it doesn’t even sell it in gallons. They just happen to have a gallon) I have said this before but the one thing I like the most about it is after cured the ink stays soft and rubbery. Your prints look and feel a lot nicer without any changes in the way you print. It also cures at a very low temp. I have never had a print break when pulled even when I pull it as far as I can. This is the first wilflex white ink I have used. I used 4 whites from Union, 2 whites from Rutland, one white from WM and one from Xenon in the last 3 years. Out of all of them The quick white is as close to a perfect white for me. It makes me what it try more inks from them and see how they are. I will be talking to them this Saturday at Long Beach.
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So is the QCM ink out there actually being produced by Rutland now or is it just back-stock everyone's going through? It appears that Rutland figured out and, from the sound of it, improved the rubber-based formula. Not sure about plastisol.
A white just for fuzzy-ass ring spun blends? Sounds like our dream ink. Will definitely be checking that out.
I have a sample request for some phthalate-free Phoenix. Now we play the waiting game.....
For now, I'm sure that Epic Quick isn't the best thing on the block necessarily but it gets 'er done admirably on most jobs. Nice hand to the finished print but it could be just a little whiter in my opinion, I miss that about 159.
What does Street Fighter LB improve upon compared to Quick? And is Rutland consistent? That's what I really like about Wilflex- every batch is the same so far.
I have visited the Wilflex production facility in Kennessaw and there is a reason for their consistency.
They are a fastidious bunch of folks and the plant runs 24/7/365. Not that others do not but their capacity is overwhelming.
Back to the HSA from Rutland rumour has it that it was made off shore and Rutland made an agreement with the company either to manufacture or distribute or both.
It is an opaque WB made primarily for the Tri-blends; which we print a lot of for all the bands. Rick says it's soft and opaque. These inks in the past were notorious for drying in the screens however.
We'll see.
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yep, it does dry in faster than standard waterbase and retarding it as we know will effect the flash time. running that product its best to have a extra operator for quick response when stopping. i just lightly mist the screen, do whats necessary and resume. lighter flood pressure and leaving the screens in the flood position also helps.
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I just made the best white ink I have used thus far. Wont be able to duplicate it again but it works great with 5% soft hand base and 5% curable reducer.
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Quick white is great, been using it since it came out and I can't find anything even near the quality. I little birdy told me that a LARGE US supplier will have Silicon White out very soon. They have been working with a silicon manufacturer and NIKE on this product. Look for it soon. Thats all I can say about it right now. Don't know if I am the only one who knows this yet.
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Hey P, what ink did you end up with? We are still going strong on Phoenix.
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I just tried some Phoenix white on the manual a couple days and it was the best white print I have ever done. Cut it about 5% curable reducer and warmed it up on top of the dryer and went to town.
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we are using the house brand of white from Multicraft (which I believe to be Phoenix). I have several others here we were supposed to test with Rich Roth, but he did not make it and we've gotten too busy for him now. We did run a gallon of Wilflex Epic Quick White when we ran out of our regular stuff and Shirley (our production manager) says it prints as well as Phoenix. I'll order few more gallons and give it a more thorough try.
pierre
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CCI just gave me a gallon to try. Looks promising. We will see how it does on press.
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To all.....There are three versions of SF white
9746=poly
9072=cotton
9073=both
I use the 9073. Since my pricing is the same for all that made sense. In four months i haven't found anything it did not work on. I will be iinterested in hearing pierres observations on it.
same senerio here. we only use the 9073 and it does have a nice matte finish. the cotton version is definatly a shorter bodied product but climbs the squeegies to the point of having to add a 1/2 gallon to the screen to keep it flooding.
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street fighter direct from rutland is running 41 bucks a gallon.
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Switched to Street Fighter cotton after a few tests.
I like it. I sticks a bit much, and doesn't want to stay in the
flood/squeegee path, but that can be dealt with.
Approximately half the price of Epic Quick in 5's.
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...I recently decided to try some new white inks, I have been using QCM 158, which prints well but just wont stay in the center of the screen.
...trying some of their 109 "Simply White" OK, but not great. Seems OK for a standalone cotton white, but seems to have a small amount of blowing agent, which is not cool for underbasing. Cant recommend on 50/50, bled a bit on a Royal tee.
...Also trying some IC 711...now that stuff seems REALLY nice so far. Only used on one job so far, prints nice, smooth, excellent coverage and opacity. Need to try on 50/50, but so far i am sold. Atlas has it on sale too...$275 for a five. May stock up for the year if it continues to test this well
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that 711 is a really good longer bodied product but it does flash slow.