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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: XG Print on August 17, 2016, 04:43:24 PM

Title: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: XG Print on August 17, 2016, 04:43:24 PM
About to order my first gallon of the NextGen cotton.  Any tips for using it manually for the first time.  Also noticed they have the NextGen Poly out now.  Anyone have any experience with it?
Thanks
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: jvanick on August 17, 2016, 04:49:27 PM
both of them are awesome, and print great on the manual... I'd put it in the screen and print like normal.

a few notes.. they will 'rise' if you cure them too hot, so try to cure no higher than 330.

the poly cures a lot lower than normal poly inks (I believe you can actually cure down around 275, but we haven't tried to go that low yet).

your flash speeds will likely be faster than whatever you're currently using...
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Maff on August 17, 2016, 07:59:44 PM
We're all manual, we gave the nextgen cotton white a try, but it creeps up the squeegee a lot more than we like.  Other members said it worked fine for them though...

We have been enjoying the Nextgen Magic in some of our color mixes. And we've still been using the white to mix colors with as well.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: blue moon on August 18, 2016, 06:28:45 AM
We're all manual, we gave the nextgen cotton white a try, but it creeps up the squeegee a lot more than we like.  Other members said it worked fine for them though...

We have been enjoying the Nextgen Magic in some of our color mixes. And we've still been using the white to mix colors with as well.

there was a slight adjustment in the formula and the new batches don't climb nearly as bad (if any)!

pierre
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Colin on August 18, 2016, 07:58:12 AM
When was the tweak made Pierre?
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: blue moon on August 18, 2016, 08:21:23 AM
When was the tweak made Pierre?
I think about a month ago, but you'd have to check with Joe.

pierre
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: alan802 on August 18, 2016, 09:36:10 AM
Don't be afraid to mix in some Magic into anything if you want it to print better, even your white.

It does flash fast and will cure lower than you expect.  When used properly I doubt there is anything better.  I know every shop is different but don't be afraid to push the limits on your print settings like pressure and print speed.  If you are going to print it just like you would any other white ink then you probably won't see just how good the ink is.  It's like driving a sports car, if you drive like a blue-hair then you'll never get to experience the reason why people by a sports car to begin with. 

Some manufacturers (I don't fault them at all for doing this) build their inks to appeal to the largest base of customers and doing so will hinder the performance of the ink.  As this shop has progressed over the years we've had to continually adjust/mix new white inks to keep up with what I'm trying to accomplish on the press.  There is no doubt that printing with light pressure and fast speeds creates a better print, in virtually every category.  If you're ink won't perform at those levels where you'll actually see a difference then you'll have to work so much harder and do many different things to progress and make your shop more efficient and producing higher quality prints.  If you're a plastisol shop then white ink is by far the most important part of your production loop and if you're choosing a white ink based solely on price then a huge percentage of what you print will be affected negatively.  Unless you've found a cheap white ink that will print as good as the expensive ones, which I have yet to find.  And I'm a white ink HO!
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: XG Print on August 18, 2016, 09:58:24 AM
Don't be afraid to mix in some Magic into anything if you want it to print better, even your white.

It does flash fast and will cure lower than you expect.  When used properly I doubt there is anything better.  I know every shop is different but don't be afraid to push the limits on your print settings like pressure and print speed.  If you are going to print it just like you would any other white ink then you probably won't see just how good the ink is.  It's like driving a sports car, if you drive like a blue-hair then you'll never get to experience the reason why people by a sports car to begin with. 

Some manufacturers (I don't fault them at all for doing this) build their inks to appeal to the largest base of customers and doing so will hinder the performance of the ink.  As this shop has progressed over the years we've had to continually adjust/mix new white inks to keep up with what I'm trying to accomplish on the press.  There is no doubt that printing with light pressure and fast speeds creates a better print, in virtually every category.  If you're ink won't perform at those levels where you'll actually see a difference then you'll have to work so much harder and do many different things to progress and make your shop more efficient and producing higher quality prints.  If you're a plastisol shop then white ink is by far the most important part of your production loop and if you're choosing a white ink based solely on price then a huge percentage of what you print will be affected negatively.  Unless you've found a cheap white ink that will print as good as the expensive ones, which I have yet to find.  And I'm a white ink HO!

So lets say I get the Magic coming too.  Would you go ahead and mix the whole new gallon with Magic and if so at what ratio?  Thanks
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Maff on August 18, 2016, 10:03:03 AM
We're all manual, we gave the nextgen cotton white a try, but it creeps up the squeegee a lot more than we like.  Other members said it worked fine for them though...

We have been enjoying the Nextgen Magic in some of our color mixes. And we've still been using the white to mix colors with as well.

there was a slight adjustment in the formula and the new batches don't climb nearly as bad (if any)!

pierre
That is good to know, maybe we'll give it another shot after we finish up this gallon.

Do you guys use the cotton white on any blended materials?
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: jvanick on August 18, 2016, 10:07:53 AM
Don't be afraid to mix in some Magic into anything if you want it to print better, even your white.

It does flash fast and will cure lower than you expect.  When used properly I doubt there is anything better.  I know every shop is different but don't be afraid to push the limits on your print settings like pressure and print speed.  If you are going to print it just like you would any other white ink then you probably won't see just how good the ink is.  It's like driving a sports car, if you drive like a blue-hair then you'll never get to experience the reason why people by a sports car to begin with. 

Some manufacturers (I don't fault them at all for doing this) build their inks to appeal to the largest base of customers and doing so will hinder the performance of the ink.  As this shop has progressed over the years we've had to continually adjust/mix new white inks to keep up with what I'm trying to accomplish on the press.  There is no doubt that printing with light pressure and fast speeds creates a better print, in virtually every category.  If you're ink won't perform at those levels where you'll actually see a difference then you'll have to work so much harder and do many different things to progress and make your shop more efficient and producing higher quality prints.  If you're a plastisol shop then white ink is by far the most important part of your production loop and if you're choosing a white ink based solely on price then a huge percentage of what you print will be affected negatively.  Unless you've found a cheap white ink that will print as good as the expensive ones, which I have yet to find.  And I'm a white ink HO!


So lets say I get the Magic coming too.  Would you go ahead and mix the whole new gallon with Magic and if so at what ratio?  Thanks


you shouldn't have to mix the Magic with Joe's new batches of white...

the magic is more for mixing with other inks, or other peoples whites that don't perform as well...    up to 15% is what joe says doesn't affect opacity.  We were adding 5-10% to our wilflex amazing base mixes that were 'tough' (stuff with a lot of sticky FL pigments)... but after we switched to the Synergy base, the Magic has remained on the shelf just in case we need it.

more info here:
http://www.synergyinks.com/PDS/MAGIC%20PDS.pdf (http://www.synergyinks.com/PDS/MAGIC%20PDS.pdf)

Fyi, the cotton white was hit or miss on blended materials... for whatever reason the prints would look great going into the dryer but come out rough.  Using his poly white fixed this.  (Poly white prints and floods like a dream).
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: alan802 on August 18, 2016, 01:55:43 PM
Don't be afraid to mix in some Magic into anything if you want it to print better, even your white.

It does flash fast and will cure lower than you expect.  When used properly I doubt there is anything better.  I know every shop is different but don't be afraid to push the limits on your print settings like pressure and print speed.  If you are going to print it just like you would any other white ink then you probably won't see just how good the ink is.  It's like driving a sports car, if you drive like a blue-hair then you'll never get to experience the reason why people by a sports car to begin with. 

Some manufacturers (I don't fault them at all for doing this) build their inks to appeal to the largest base of customers and doing so will hinder the performance of the ink.  As this shop has progressed over the years we've had to continually adjust/mix new white inks to keep up with what I'm trying to accomplish on the press.  There is no doubt that printing with light pressure and fast speeds creates a better print, in virtually every category.  If you're ink won't perform at those levels where you'll actually see a difference then you'll have to work so much harder and do many different things to progress and make your shop more efficient and producing higher quality prints.  If you're a plastisol shop then white ink is by far the most important part of your production loop and if you're choosing a white ink based solely on price then a huge percentage of what you print will be affected negatively.  Unless you've found a cheap white ink that will print as good as the expensive ones, which I have yet to find.  And I'm a white ink HO!

So lets say I get the Magic coming too.  Would you go ahead and mix the whole new gallon with Magic and if so at what ratio?  Thanks

Only if you were having some issues with the ink climbing the squeegee or building up on the outsides of the screen.  We use the Magic predominantly with our huge supply of VERY old ink that we bought (mistake) from a shop that went out of business.  We've got a few hundred quart buckets of ink that spans the pantone book and often times when a customer wants a pantone match we have it on the shelf.  But, there are many times that ink is older than I care to mention here and needs some "MAGIC" to bring it back to life.  I've taken an ink that was 10 years old and never opened since the original print run, added Magic and made an ink that was as creamy and as close to perfect as plastisol can get.  We're moving towards phasing out our current usage and ink inventory and sticking with one brand/series of spot colors and using that base to mix anything pantone specific.  Excalibur 500 series has been great so far and the 10 colors we're using from them have performed great.  Not trying to push Joe into expanding their ink lineup but it feels like the natural move to make and that ink will no doubt be as good as the white and black and we will use it exclusively if it does happen. 
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: bimmridder on August 18, 2016, 02:59:07 PM
A bit off subject, but if you use a PC system, you may want to look at his base. I've been using it with my Wilflex PCs and we LOVE what it can do.

Now, back to your white.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Racer Tees on August 22, 2016, 06:00:33 PM
Fyi, the cotton white was hit or miss on blended materials... for whatever reason the prints would look great going into the dryer but come out rough.  Using his poly white fixed this.  (Poly white prints and floods like a dream).
I've seen this same problem with it, but I haven't bought any in a few months.  Are you manual printing this poly?
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: screenprintguy on August 22, 2016, 07:13:08 PM
A bit off subject, but if you use a PC system, you may want to look at his base. I've been using it with my Wilflex PCs and we LOVE what it can do.

Now, back to your white.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY OFF TOPIC HERE! Hey Dave, the TRX is kickin my arse!!! ;D


Carry on!
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Nation03 on August 23, 2016, 08:24:07 AM
I do a lot of 50/50's. Just ordered a gallon of the Poly. I've been using Street Fighter LB as my go to, is this stuff comparable or will it blow it out of the water?
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: jvanick on August 23, 2016, 08:30:49 AM
I do a lot of 50/50's. Just ordered a gallon of the Poly. I've been using Street Fighter LB as my go to, is this stuff comparable or will it blow it out of the water?

not even in the same league... SO much better.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Nation03 on August 23, 2016, 08:38:15 AM
Okay awesome! For the price, I was okay with SF, but it wasn't ideal. If all goes well I'm going to make NextGen my go to for white and black ink.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: AntonySharples on August 23, 2016, 01:28:50 PM
We run only NexGen poly....on everything.  Total game changer.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: screenprintguy on August 23, 2016, 02:13:57 PM
question on the low cure temp. What if there are other colors/inks involved in a design that require higher cure temp?
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Gilligan on August 23, 2016, 02:23:43 PM
Can't over cure plastisol.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: screenprintguy on August 23, 2016, 02:27:46 PM
Right but, if the low cure part is based on curing below 300 degrees and you have top colors needing 320 or higher, do you lose the bleed resistance from the hotter temps. I'm sure that's why Dave went to using the base with his pigment system to keep everything at that low temp. Just curious as we are seriously considering getting away from the RFU mixing system we use now and going pc based. We will have a crap ton of already mixed colors, but I guess we can go through them over time on cotton and not sweat it.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: jvanick on August 23, 2016, 02:46:41 PM
Right but, if the low cure part is based on curing below 300 degrees and you have top colors needing 320 or higher, do you lose the bleed resistance from the hotter temps. I'm sure that's why Dave went to using the base with his pigment system to keep everything at that low temp. Just curious as we are seriously considering getting away from the RFU mixing system we use now and going pc based. We will have a crap ton of already mixed colors, but I guess we can go through them over time on cotton and not sweat it.

we've had no issues curing Synergy Poly at 330-340... you can continue to use your top colors on top of his poly ink with no issues...  if anything it's likely better as even if you're running the shirts fast, as long as the top layer of ink is hitting 320 in the dryer, the base will still likely be cured as it cures down at the 280-290 range.

add the Zero after-flash tack to the list, and it's killer to print on.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: AntonySharples on August 23, 2016, 02:47:23 PM
You're not going to get dye migration at 320 or 330 degrees.  (Badger camo and Sport Tech hex camo notwithstanding)  Keep your curing temp between 325-330 and you will be golden.  Key for NexGen is to not over flash.  You should be at a 2-3 sec flash.  Once we got the flash dialed in, our whites are some of the nicest you will see or feel for plastisol.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: screenprintguy on August 23, 2016, 03:10:53 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I think I'll give both cotton and poly a try. Been using Legacy white for our cottons and Rutland Super Poly for 50/50 and poly, but from what everyone has been saying, this stuff beats out both.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Gilligan on August 23, 2016, 04:41:19 PM
My batch of "All of the above" comes in on Thursday... chomping at the bit here.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: screenprintguy on August 23, 2016, 04:56:27 PM
Nice!! Bimmridder has nothing  but praises for the inks.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: blue moon on August 23, 2016, 09:01:33 PM
Can't over cure plastisol.

actually you can. It is not a catastrophic failure, but if you overcook most inks that cure at 275 and run it at 350 you can see some problems. . .
Joe's ink cures low, but will handle higher temps better than most as far as I understand. . .
pierre
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Rob Coleman on August 23, 2016, 09:46:43 PM
You certainly can overcure (remelt) plastisol.  It is rather rare. Many times the plastisol that had hot this temp will be extremely glossy.

Also, big difference in dye migration and dye sublimation, albeit the end result is similar (ink discoloration). Migration occurs when the available plasticizer solvated the poly dye and brings it to the surface - solid to liquid if you will.  This happens 24 hours to weeks later. Even slightly under cured inks can exasperate this.

Sublimation on the other hand is solid to gas and generally seen immediately at the end of the dryer.  Polyester dyes are sets with heat, the fibers expand and absorb the dye. In the good old days, all mills used high energy dyes and you generally did not see this until 350+ F.  Now, most mills use cheap low energy dyes, and you can indeed experience sublimation at 300F in cases. Hence the never ending challenge for plastisol manufacturers to continue to lower cure temps.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Printficient on August 24, 2016, 01:32:44 PM
I am happy to work on site to help you dial in this and other parameters in your shop.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: SI on August 24, 2016, 02:04:14 PM
We received 5 gallons of the cotton and a gallon of the poly.  Clears the screen easier than anything Ive ever printed so far.  Super happy with the inks.  The cotton white results are just amazing compared to any other ink i have printed.  The opacity and brightness I am getting would have taken more than a p/f/p with anything else I have tried previously.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: XG Print on August 26, 2016, 12:46:33 PM
Printed my first 100 piece order with the Next Gen cotton.  Pleased with the results.  White is bright BUT I had to really work this ink to get it going.  I print manually and the ink seemed pretty stiff to me compared to the Meteor white I had been using which seemed a lot creamier.  Is there a chance I got shipped an older gallon before the recent update?  I was printing through 155 mesh and really had to work at it the first 20 or so shirts before it settled in.  I am all ears for tips.  I really liked the finished product but it gave me a workout.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: mimosatexas on August 26, 2016, 12:48:13 PM
Warm and stir prior to printing? pallets preheated?

Haven't printed with this ink yet, but I have had very few issues with any white ink since I started doing those three things prior to ever putting the ink on press.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: alan802 on August 26, 2016, 03:40:03 PM
Printed my first 100 piece order with the Next Gen cotton.  Pleased with the results.  White is bright BUT I had to really work this ink to get it going.  I print manually and the ink seemed pretty stiff to me compared to the Meteor white I had been using which seemed a lot creamier.  Is there a chance I got shipped an older gallon before the recent update?  I was printing through 155 mesh and really had to work at it the first 20 or so shirts before it settled in.  I am all ears for tips.  I really liked the finished product but it gave me a workout.

155/64?  That mesh is awful compared to what you could be using instead.  In general, thin thread mesh allows most white inks to print effortlessly.  I got a new 5'er on Monday and it's very creamy and prints like a dream.  All the batches I've got have been great, but the last pail is the best we've got so far. 

One thing we have to be careful with is not leaving the bucket close to the flash units because in our shop it gets so hot and near the flash units it gets to the point where the ink will actually start gelling up due to it's low gel/cure temp.  We've had several different brands of white ink gel in the bucket over the years and that happened to us a few weeks back.  I love my white inks that flash fast but you also have to be careful with it.  Seems crazy that something like that can happen but all those quick flashing white inks we've had over the years have done similar things like this.  The first time this happened was with the older formula of Wilflex Quick White (the one that had the blue tint to it if I'm remembering correctly) and with the old Centurian press with the HiFlash flash units, we used to put the ink on top of the rear portion of the flash and it was 115 in the shop and probably closer to 130 where the ink was.  I pulled the spatula out of the bucket and the ink was attached to it like a giant plastisol popsicle. 
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: mimosatexas on August 26, 2016, 03:51:40 PM
I started storing my poly/LB/lowcure whites in my screen room until I use them, and I am buying individual gallons instead of 5's specifically because of this.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: SI on August 26, 2016, 06:13:51 PM


155/64?  That mesh is awful compared to what you could be using instead.  In general, thin thread mesh allows most white inks to print effortlessly.  I got a new 5'er on Monday and it's very creamy and prints like a dream.  All the batches I've got have been great, but the last pail is the best we've got so far. 

[/quote]

Joe told me the other day he is continuously modifying the ink as he goes.  The ink print pretty good for me, but I still have to hit it twice on the UB to clear the mesh.  I was hitting it three times on a 180 S mesh, switched to a 150S and it clears in two passes.  I am having issues with getting it to flood. 
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: XG Print on August 30, 2016, 09:04:50 AM
Update....Yes I am using the 156/64 mesh so I need to get some S mesh.  I ran another large job last night and I was much more pleased right from the beginning.  Not sure what changed.  This design is much smaller than the first.  Great coverage, even had a few that would have passed after a double stroke but I am p/f/p all of them.  Thanks Looking forward to giving the poly a shot. 
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: cleveprint on August 30, 2016, 09:38:27 AM
I ordered a 5 gal of the cotton white of a few weeks ago and have been running it on any cotton jobs we have. on medium and light colored garments, I've been getting great results with two strokes. very happy with the performance there. when running two screens of white on say a black shirt, I'm getting a crazy amount of puff out of the dryer. i saw somewhere in this thread that I could be over curing, so Ive tried lowering the temp/cure time but it hasn't seemed to make a difference. normally when we do an UB and top white, both screens will go on either a 140 or 160.

so far thats the only real issue I've run into. i love the performance other than that. we have to slow the flood stroke down to get it to flood well, but joe told us that right off the bat.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: XG Print on August 30, 2016, 10:19:37 AM
I ordered a 5 gal of the cotton white of a few weeks ago and have been running it on any cotton jobs we have. on medium and light colored garments, I've been getting great results with two strokes. very happy with the performance there. when running two screens of white on say a black shirt, I'm getting a crazy amount of puff out of the dryer. i saw somewhere in this thread that I could be over curing, so Ive tried lowering the temp/cure time but it hasn't seemed to make a difference. normally when we do an UB and top white, both screens will go on either a 140 or 160.

so far thats the only real issue I've run into. i love the performance other than that. we have to slow the flood stroke down to get it to flood well, but joe told us that right off the bat.

I have noticed a bit more puff with this ink over my other white we switched from but have had no complaints.  It really looks good so far.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: LoneWolf2 on August 30, 2016, 11:51:39 AM
I'm seeing a TON of puff on this as well, which would be fine for a one-hit white or something like that, but as an underbase it can look a little odd. Climbs the squeegee like crazy as well, but i'm thinking that's just due to it being an older gallon possibly.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: bimmridder on August 30, 2016, 01:39:43 PM
I don't know if your concerns would be answered there, but there is a FAQ section on the Synergy site.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Joe Clarke on August 31, 2016, 04:13:14 PM
About to order my first gallon of the NextGen cotton.  Any tips for using it manually for the first time.  Also noticed they have the NextGen Poly out now.  Anyone have any experience with it?
Thanks


thank you for the opportunity XG.

we have some reasonable FAQ's and PDSheets on NexGen Cotton at www.synergyinks.com (http://www.synergyinks.com)
we also have more info then most anyone would need describing our products,

Our inks are very low tack and very shear-thinning which will work for Automatic AND Manual printing but admittedly most of our info is targeted toward Autos, if you have any issue or question; info@synergyinks.com and we'll hook you up.

Poly has been out and well recieved for a while now and we have some brand new FAQ's onm NexGen Poly and we hope to post them before the gig at SGIA.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Joe Clarke on August 31, 2016, 04:15:21 PM
We're all manual, we gave the nextgen cotton white a try, but it creeps up the squeegee a lot more than we like.  Other members said it worked fine for them though...

We have been enjoying the Nextgen Magic in some of our color mixes. And we've still been using the white to mix colors with as well.

we have been making very slight adjustments in order to improve the flooding and redduce the climbing
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Joe Clarke on August 31, 2016, 04:19:40 PM
We're all manual, we gave the nextgen cotton white a try, but it creeps up the squeegee a lot more than we like.  Other members said it worked fine for them though...

We have been enjoying the Nextgen Magic in some of our color mixes. And we've still been using the white to mix colors with as well.

Based on scrutiny and feedback we have significantly improved the flood properties without compromise.
Good to hear your results re MAGIC.
Excellent to use NexGen Cotton in your color matches.

Please PM me so we can discuss your conditions and so I can better understand your needs?
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Joe Clarke on August 31, 2016, 04:21:47 PM
When was the tweak made Pierre?

we made a very large number of very small steps in order to make such a singular change without affecting other performance properties.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Joe Clarke on August 31, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Don't be afraid to mix in some Magic into anything if you want it to print better, even your white.

It does flash fast and will cure lower than you expect.  When used properly I doubt there is anything better.  I know every shop is different but don't be afraid to push the limits on your print settings like pressure and print speed.  If you are going to print it just like you would any other white ink then you probably won't see just how good the ink is.  It's like driving a sports car, if you drive like a blue-hair then you'll never get to experience the reason why people by a sports car to begin with. 

Some manufacturers (I don't fault them at all for doing this) build their inks to appeal to the largest base of customers and doing so will hinder the performance of the ink.  As this shop has progressed over the years we've had to continually adjust/mix new white inks to keep up with what I'm trying to accomplish on the press.  There is no doubt that printing with light pressure and fast speeds creates a better print, in virtually every category.  If you're ink won't perform at those levels where you'll actually see a difference then you'll have to work so much harder and do many different things to progress and make your shop more efficient and producing higher quality prints.  If you're a plastisol shop then white ink is by far the most important part of your production loop and if you're choosing a white ink based solely on price then a huge percentage of what you print will be affected negatively.  Unless you've found a cheap white ink that will print as good as the expensive ones, which I have yet to find.  And I'm a white ink HO!
.

So lets say I get the Magic coming too.  Would you go ahead and mix the whole new gallon with Magic and if so at what ratio?  Thanks

we have a very simple graphic PDS on how to determine the optimal amount of MAGIC.
the "meatball" quantity is ~15%
because at 5% you won't see much improvement
at 25% you may compromise opacity
at 35% you will see a color shift

If you will PM me with contact info, I'd l love to send it to you.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Joe Clarke on August 31, 2016, 04:38:50 PM
question on the low cure temp. What if there are other colors/inks involved in a design that require higher cure temp?

Great question ESP&E.

Most of our friends are using our whites with NexGen Base which has a comparably low gel and fusin temp. There are one or alternative two brands of ink which require very high gel and fusion temps. With these we recommend NexGen Base. MAGIC will help but adding more than 30% may cause a color shift.
4-mil
as a GUIDELINE ONLY if your fusion temp is 330F [we gauge fusion as 100% elasticity per 4-mil deposit @ 150% elongation] and you add 30% MAGIC you will knock the relative fusion just below 320.
If you need some info on gel and fusion, please let me know.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Joe Clarke on August 31, 2016, 05:05:36 PM
Printed my first 100 piece order with the Next Gen cotton.  Pleased with the results.  White is bright BUT I had to really work this ink to get it going.  I print manually and the ink seemed pretty stiff to me compared to the Meteor white I had been using which seemed a lot creamier.  Is there a chance I got shipped an older gallon before the recent update?  I was printing through 155 mesh and really had to work at it the first 20 or so shirts before it settled in.  I am all ears for tips.  I really liked the finished product but it gave me a workout.
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A couple posts already address the mesh count; I like a 135/55 or 150/45--good ratio of deposit to flow rate.

Since you are printing manually and no doubt "pre-load" the cells, I would like you to add 30% MAGIC to NexGen Cotton. it is vern more shear thinning and slightly lower viscosity.

The vintage of the product is not likely the issue, it is made to take the extraordinary pressure which is used on most autos and still allow super fast stroke speeds.

thanks!
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Joe Clarke on August 31, 2016, 05:15:18 PM


155/64?  That mesh is awful compared to what you could be using instead.  In general, thin thread mesh allows most white inks to print effortlessly.  I got a new 5'er on Monday and it's very creamy and prints like a dream.  All the batches I've got have been great, but the last pail is the best we've got so far. 


Joe told me the other day he is continuously modifying the ink as he goes.  The ink print pretty good for me, but I still have to hit it twice on the UB to clear the mesh.  I was hitting it three times on a 180 S mesh, switched to a 150S and it clears in two passes.  I am having issues with getting it to flood.
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as we discussed, the issue here is easily resolved with a triple blade.
Ideally get a 60/90/60 for the lower counts and a 70/90/70 for the higher counts
you can get a 65/90/65 to do both.

the blade you have is soft and rolls over and forces you to run slowly.
this is restricting the fluid flow by causing back-pressure.
restricted fluid flow is causing you to need multiple passes.

Further becuse the stroke speed is relatively slow [most of our clients print 32-40IPS]...
the ink is not being thinned in a few passes therefore it is not flooding as well as it does for most.

Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: hoogie on August 31, 2016, 06:02:41 PM
I've just ordered a gallon of your poly and cotton. I've found the data sheet for the cotton, but I've looked around the site and haven't found the PDS for the nexgen poly. Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks an I'm eager to give this white a try.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: SI on August 31, 2016, 09:40:21 PM
as we discussed, the issue here is easily resolved with a triple blade.
Ideally get a 60/90/60 for the lower counts and a 70/90/70 for the higher counts
you can get a 65/90/65 to do both.

the blade you have is soft and rolls over and forces you to run slowly.
this is restricting the fluid flow by causing back-pressure.
restricted fluid flow is causing you to need multiple passes.

Further becuse the stroke speed is relatively slow [most of our clients print 32-40IPS]...
the ink is not being thinned in a few passes therefore it is not flooding as well as it does for most.

I had posted this before talking to you Joe.  Alex recommended Ben from Northwest Graphics, Talked with him and the Rubber that came with the press is single 80 Duro, Ordered some different Triple Duro samples from him and will hopefully see a big improvement.

but as I stated while the printing process I am using is not ideal, the results are fantastic.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: Joe Clarke on September 01, 2016, 12:32:38 AM
as we discussed, the issue here is easily resolved with a triple blade.
Ideally get a 60/90/60 for the lower counts and a 70/90/70 for the higher counts
you can get a 65/90/65 to do both.

the blade you have is soft and rolls over and forces you to run slowly.
this is restricting the fluid flow by causing back-pressure.
restricted fluid flow is causing you to need multiple passes.

Further becuse the stroke speed is relatively slow [most of our clients print 32-40IPS]...
the ink is not being thinned in a few passes therefore it is not flooding as well as it does for most.

I had posted this before talking to you Joe.  Alex recommended Ben from Northwest Graphics, Talked with him and the Rubber that came with the press is single 80 Duro, Ordered some different Triple Duro samples from him and will hopefully see a big improvement.

but as I stated while the printing process I am using is not ideal, the results are fantastic.

This is excellent news Jeremy, Please get back to me once you get the blades and we will nail the results. Thank you!
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: mimosatexas on November 04, 2016, 12:24:54 PM
Wanted to ask if anyone is using the NextGen Poly with Comfort Colors and how the mat down is with this ink?  Doing another round of white ink tests as I slow down for the holidays and will be ordering a gallon either way, but wanted to see if anyone was using it on fuzzy cotton bleeders like the CC shirts and having good luck.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: AntonySharples on November 04, 2016, 01:12:50 PM
Oh yeah, prints beautifully on CC.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: mimosatexas on November 04, 2016, 01:32:41 PM
Any issues at all with the Poly?  Puff, pitting, sticky, shiny, rough, etc?
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: AntonySharples on November 04, 2016, 01:39:19 PM
None. Just make sure you keep those temps down and don't over flash.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: mimosatexas on November 04, 2016, 02:58:32 PM
Looks great.  Are you using it for your highlight white as well?  Any modifiers to base or highlight (if you are)?
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: AntonySharples on November 04, 2016, 04:18:24 PM
Yep HL white too, no additives, 280/35 mesh.  Actually on this print here we didn't have room for a HL white...that is a single stroke on a 180/45.
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: ZooCity on November 04, 2016, 05:58:21 PM
Is this running consistently for folks?  Following this and waiting for it to be done with it's sort of beta phase.   Would like to see if we can drop this in to replace Quick but I need consistent ink 5er to 5er. 
Title: Re: NextGen Cotton and NextGen Poly
Post by: GaryG on November 04, 2016, 11:05:15 PM
I would bet the Farm if it's from Mr. C., you can be rest assured it is consistent.