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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: Screened Gear on March 25, 2016, 05:29:42 PM
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I got a 5 of white and a gallon of magic. I have to say Joe is very knowledgeable. If the ink is half as good as the customer service has been this is a winner.
I will post my findings in a week or so after I put this ink to the test.
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Joe was just here and after we made one change on the press we are 100% on board with his ink. I think before the changes his stuff was twice as good as anything around, and after the adjustment it doubled up again.
We had the press flooding and stroking at 100% speed (pretty scary seeing the things move so fast!) and everything was printing and flooding better than any other ink I've seen, that's at 2 times the speed we normally print!
pierre
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If you use a PC system, do yourself a favor and try his base. All I can say is this stuff is what ink is supposed to be, and acts the way ink is supposed to act. Turn up your game with some. We've gone through 150 gallons of his base. Needless to say, I love it.
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If you use a PC system, do yourself a favor and try his base. All I can say is this stuff is what ink is supposed to be, and acts the way ink is supposed to act. Turn up your game with some. We've gone through 150 gallons of his base. Needless to say, I love it.
Which formula system are you using with the Synergy base and pc's?
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If you use a PC system, do yourself a favor and try his base. All I can say is this stuff is what ink is supposed to be, and acts the way ink is supposed to act. Turn up your game with some. We've gone through 150 gallons of his base. Needless to say, I love it.
Which formula system are you using with the Synergy base and pc's?
I was going to ask the same... along with if you're noticing any color shifting when mixing from the formulas...
We use the Epic PC system here and I notice color shifting if we don't select the right base at the time of mixing (ie, 15000, Amazing, Top Score, Performance all have different 'white' characteristics and the colors will shift depending on that -- selecting the right base or having wilflex techs give us the correct mix for the color fixes all of that, and in our shop I don't think I'd want to lose the flexibility I have by calling wilflex in the morning and having a perfectly matched pantone color by afternoon).
That being said, Joe does have an additive that I may need to get a hold of to try out.
Still patiently waiting for the 'blends' white ink to try... we don't print enough 100% cotton with plastisol to justify changing our white at this point.
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I use the Epic PC with Joe's base.
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Wilflex Epic PC Base here also. We were using amazing Base prior to the switch. For us it has been a seamless switch. A few things we have seen are more wet on wet abilities, faster print strokes, less squeegee force, beautiful ink transfer. Like I said, in my mind it's a textbook ink now. For me at least. I do have to say though, we are strictly plastisol printers with pretty boring spot color work with some simprocess thrown in here and there. I cannot think of one instance where the base has been a step backwards.
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If you use a PC system, do yourself a favor and try his base. All I can say is this stuff is what ink is supposed to be, and acts the way ink is supposed to act. Turn up your game with some. We've gone through 150 gallons of his base. Needless to say, I love it.
Which formula system are you using with the Synergy base and pc's?
I was going to ask the same... along with if you're noticing any color shifting when mixing from the formulas...
We use the Epic PC system here and I notice color shifting if we don't select the right base at the time of mixing (ie, 15000, Amazing, Top Score, Performance all have different 'white' characteristics and the colors will shift depending on that -- selecting the right base or having wilflex techs give us the correct mix for the color fixes all of that, and in our shop I don't think I'd want to lose the flexibility I have by calling wilflex in the morning and having a perfectly matched pantone color by afternoon).
That being said, Joe does have an additive that I may need to get a hold of to try out.
Still patiently waiting for the 'blends' white ink to try... we don't print enough 100% cotton with plastisol to justify changing our white at this point.
Update: NexGen Poly is in Beta, we already know it prints virtually identical to NexGen Cotton, up to 700 - 900 shirts per hour, as low as 20 PSI, 1-second flash, no after tack, electron-rich surface to accept colors, 275°-330° cure. Currently we are testing the worst bleeders we can find and despite the protracted successes, we feel it would be a fools errand to rush the process. I will be certain you are aware of the launch date as soon as I have one, meanwhile thank you kindly for your patience!
With respect to MAGIC, Richard gave me your mail address. We have a single, simple chart with estimates on percentage of MAGIC added vs expected results. I will send you a copy.
JC
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...electron rich surface.... love that kind of talk!
Been listening to this super guy for decades.
Always deep info that sharpens those who want to hear, thanks!
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Joe -- looking forward to seeing the chart. Will be ordering some Magic and Base soon to try them out!
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Joe -- looking forward to seeing the chart. Will be ordering some Magic and Base soon to try them out!
Jason, I spoke too soon. For your records;
joeclarke@cprknowsjack.com
Mail and I will send you the chart for MAGIC.
Thank you!
JC
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Joe -- looking forward to seeing the chart. Will be ordering some Magic and Base soon to try them out!
Thank you for the kind words GaryG!
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Joe is top notch all around. The most knowledgeable person I have ever met.
If you have issues with the white, you aren't running it right! JK/but if you have troubles just ask. We had to re-dial in our machine because we've never been able to run white like that. We ran our beer tap shirts with it and you can see the difference.
The poly is going to blow the doors off everyone. People are literally going to crap when they run this stuff. We were testing it at 30-35 psi (which is incredibly low for our Roq), running it at an 8 and one hitting the worst bleeders with amazing results.
Make sure you try the black too!
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Joe was just here and after we made one change on the press we are 100% on board with his ink. I think before the changes his stuff was twice as good as anything around, and after the adjustment it doubled up again.
We had the press flooding and stroking at 100% speed (pretty scary seeing the things move so fast!) and everything was printing and flooding better than any other ink I've seen, that's at 2 times the speed we normally print!
pierre
since ppl are asking behind the scenes for a clarification, the change was a physical piece of equipment, not a press adjustment! Joe asked we keep it under wraps for now so I can't share more, sorry. . .
pierre
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Joe was just here and after we made one change on the press we are 100% on board with his ink. I think before the changes his stuff was twice as good as anything around, and after the adjustment it doubled up again.
We had the press flooding and stroking at 100% speed (pretty scary seeing the things move so fast!) and everything was printing and flooding better than any other ink I've seen, that's at 2 times the speed we normally print!
pierre
since ppl are asking behind the scenes for a clarification, the change was a physical piece of equipment, not a press adjustment! Joe asked we keep it under wraps for now so I can't share more, sorry. . .
pierre
Thanks for clarifying that for others. Yes, some changes are needed to make the system work as a whole. I just didn't want to get too in depth yet!
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Wow I'm hearing so many good things about this ink I'm gonna have to give Joe a call and order a gal to see what the fuss is all about.
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I just did :D
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We've ordered in around 50 gallons or so that we have been using. We are using ryonet/icc pigment dispersions with joes base for our pms colors.
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Danny:
Is that the International Coatings C3/Equalizer like system?
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Danny:
Is that the International Coatings C3/Equalizer like system?
I'll have to look but these are true pigments that are not balanced. The pigments are pvc and phalate free...... It's a lot like a waterbase system.... Pigments are super concentrated
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Are these inks suitable for manual printing also? Or only high speed auto's?
How about using them over a discharge base?
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Are these inks suitable for manual printing also? Or only high speed auto's?
How about using them over a discharge base?
I printed a small job on the manual yesterday with Synergy (Joe's ink). It printed very nicely. It cleared very easily with minimal pressure. It also flashed quickly with no after flash tack which is an advantage you could possibly benefit from on a manual.
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PVC and Phthalate free?
Do you have a link to original manufacturer?
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PVC and Phthalate free?
Do you have a link to original manufacturer?
here's what we are using..... might not be pvc free, just what I was told
http://www.iccink.com/pdfs/UltraMix%20PIGMENT%20DISPERSION%20COLOR%20SYSTEM.pdf (http://www.iccink.com/pdfs/UltraMix%20PIGMENT%20DISPERSION%20COLOR%20SYSTEM.pdf)
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Ok:
International Coatings.
NOT PVC Free. Good stuff.
Is any one using his base along with Rutlands C3 system?
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Which product can be used on rfu inks to make them less tacky after flashing? Magic or the base? Just wondering cause I'm running into situations where I have to flash and print right after the flash, wondering if one of these would help that.
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After flash tack is caused by a number of possibilities.
Pigment properties - Yellows and reds are very tacky.
Ink chemistry - certain components are just VERY sticky.
The ink still being very hot from the flash.
Since I don't know what ink brand/color you are using I would first suggest making sure you are:
1) Using a fast flashing ink brand.
2) Make sure you are laying down as thin a deposit as possible (while maintaining the color shade you want) - this will allow you to flash faster.
3) Use higher tension screens - this will allow the screen to "peel" off of the just flashed ink faster and easier than lower tension screens.
4) If possible lighten you squeegee pressure. Higher pressure creates a stronger contact with the tacky ink, allowing the screen to grip harder.
There are other possibilities and solutions, but this will get you started.
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In response to your question Maff:
Are these inks suitable for manual printing also? Or only high speed auto's?
How about using them over a discharge base?
As a starting point; 150 - 200 mesh for NexGen Cotton over discharge base (preferred) or discharge white (may not be necessary with high opacity NexGen Cotton). If the discharge contains excessive pigment or it's deposit is unusually thick, the NexGen surface may adopt the roughness.Results are great with minimum discharge deposit and pigment volume.
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Which product can be used on rfu inks to make them less tacky after flashing? Magic or the base? Just wondering cause I'm running into situations where I have to flash and print right after the flash, wondering if one of these would help that.
MAGIC is the best choice to compensate for hot-tack. If you will PM me I can send guidelines on adding MAGIC for a variety of specific printing problems. Meanwhile MAGIC is a finished ink, it flashes and cures easily and has excellent durability. Adding ex 5% won't make much of a change. 15% will have a significant impact. Over 35% is likely to cause a color shift specific to the color.
Please consider adding 15% to the flashed color AND 15% to the subsequent color. For the flashed color MAGIC will reduce hot-tack. For the over print color MAGIC will allow; 1) less blade angle 2) less blade pressure 3) higher blade speed, all of which will reduce sticking.
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Joe was just here and after we made one change on the press we are 100% on board with his ink. I think before the changes his stuff was twice as good as anything around, and after the adjustment it doubled up again.
We had the press flooding and stroking at 100% speed (pretty scary seeing the things move so fast!) and everything was printing and flooding better than any other ink I've seen, that's at 2 times the speed we normally print!
pierre
since ppl are asking behind the scenes for a clarification, the change was a physical piece of equipment, not a press adjustment! Joe asked we keep it under wraps for now so I can't share more, sorry. . .
pierre
Thanks Pierre & Anthony!
We are in "Alpha" testing right now on a revolutionary flood-bar. ["Alpha" is where we find our where it works, "Beta" is the next phase and that's where we find out where it fails]. So it will be some undefined time--that seems to be how inventing works but I think this one will be worth the wait. I will gladly post more on TSB as soon as I am certain of the facts.
JC
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I have began running the next gen white but am having a terrible time trying to keep it down on the screen as it is climbing the squeegee and flood very badly. Flood is at a very slight angle and squeegee is at about 10 degrees. Running the flood and squeegee pretty fast squeegee pressure is 40 psi. Are there some basic adjustments I can make from here. The ink is slightly heated when it hits the press using a crockpot on warm for a few minutes. Any suggestions would be great!
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So sorry you are having trouble with my product. I sent you a PM a short time ago with my mobile number. If you will call me at your convenience I will work with you step by step to solve the problem. Thank you, Joe
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My review of Synergy Gen one white cotton white
This is my honest review of this ink. I am not trying to sell it or make people hate it. I may say something’s that sounds bad but this is me being honest with what I have seen so far. Joe and others may also not agree with my opinion on this ink.
First observations:
It comes in the smaller 5 gallon bucket so the ink is all the way to the top. Not a fan of this because the ink is covering the lid and you have to clean that off and then mixing the ink is harder without the extra space the bigger buckets have. The bucket is black and this is a good thing. This makes keeping the bucket clean easy and you know when there is ink on the edge, side etc. The clearish and white buckets are much harder to know. (my shop is very clean}
First thing I do when getting an ink is take a goop scoop and mix it up a little. Then I take a big scoop and see how it falls off. I am checking to see how the ink mixes and acts. This ink mixed really well. It is super creamy but had a density to it that kept the ink together. You can tell there is alot of pigment but it is still easy to mix. Then I smell the ink. Not sure what this does for rating an ink but I do it. It has no bad smell. It really has less smell them most.
Manual printing:
The first few jobs I printed with the ink was manually. I do this with all my new inks. I get a better feel of the ink and what it needs on a manual press. I used the ink straight out of the bucket with no mixing. The ink was thick but flooded and printed rather easy for a white ink. It was hard to push stroke the ink so the ink would clean off the screen. Slow hard or fast hard print would leave a light film of ink on the screen. Adjusting angle helped some. This is not in the stencil but on the emulsion itself. This made printing the ink harder. I stuck with it and after the ink was worked up some it got better. The print was really good. I was surprised at how the print covered even with the ink film issues. The print flashed very fast. I would say close to if not the fastest I have ever used. The only issue with the print was the edge detail. The edges have a rough effect to them. I am very picky about this. I like my prints thin and smooth with sharp edges. The print was smooth but the edges looked almost like it was torn from the stencil. This left a rough edge with small flakes of pigment around the edge. I have seen this before with a few inks and I know a little reducer or soft hand can fix it. I added some Rutland primer clear. Not alot because I wanted to give the ink its chance but some. It helped a ton. The edge detail was clean and smooth now. It also helped with the ink film on the emulsion. Now the ink was working well. The flooding was still harder then I like since this ink likes to stick. So much that the ink would build up on the squeegee. I had to knock it off by bumping the squeegee down on the screen and pallet. This was the first few jobs on the manual. Still the end result of the printed shirt was a very good product. It’s just a little hard to work with manually printing. I am guessing you can reduce this ink up to 20 percent and still get great coverage. This would solve the issues I saw printing manually.
On the Auto:
I feared this. I bought 5 gallons of this stuff. I have to get it to work on the auto. But with the climbing and sticking on the manual I knew I was in for some frustrations. I was running a white underbase with gold shimmer on top. Hate doing this job. The shimmer is always problems. I used the slightly modified ink with primer clear. This was maybe 5 percent or even less. I mixed it up but not too much. The ink at first didn't flood well. I was flooding at 5 and printing at 4 to start. The printing was fine but I was getting a choppy flood. It was not the nice full coverage flood I like. I like a thick soft flood. I like the flooded ink to be at least a 16th or more. I also run my flood at a fast speed on most jobs to keep the ink flowing. This ink was still printing fine. After about 20-30 shirts the ink started flooding good so I turned the flood up. The print was really good even with the choppy flood. It was very smooth, flat and matte finish. I got great coverage, 2 strokes would lay down more than enough to cover the royal blue and sports grey shirts. I have to say the ink prints much better on the auto. It needed some force at first to get it going. I didn’t get any climbing after the first 30 shirts. The ink would roll when printed and I was using a winged flood bar with no angle. The ink would come around the wings but what ink doesn’t. I never adjusted the print. It looked perfect from the beginning to the end. I usually do some fine tuning during a run but I didn’t have to. I know I could have used less pressure but I just left it. The shimmer was also not a problem. It stuck perfectly to the white and looked great, the whole run.
Dryer. This ink dry’s fast. This does bring up a little problem. I noticed puffing. I know this ink has no puff additive but it does expand. I turned my dryer belt up and it got better. So I was over cooking it and it was blistering or whatever you call it. It didn’t affect the top colors. Not a big deal ounce you figure it out and dial in the dryer.
I have a lot more playing around to do with this ink. I am guessing if it is performing this well with just a few jobs printed it will only get better. One big thing about this ink is the problems were just on the printing side. The final product always looked great. I have to say that is the most impressive part. Most of the time I am fighting to get better coverage. This ink has great opacity and is a nice matte finish print.
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So sorry you are having trouble with my product. I sent you a PM a short time ago with my mobile number. If you will call me at your convenience I will work with you step by step to solve the problem. Thank you, Joe
Joe,
No need for an apology, I am by no means an expert technical printer. So many love the product I am assuming there are adjustments I can make to my setup that will give me better on screen results. Thanks for the response.
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Thank you! I will have a few questions but believe we can work through this one. Can you ring my mobile now?