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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: LoneWolf2 on December 04, 2015, 08:04:55 PM
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So i've been sitting on this question for a while now trying to decide if I should post or not, but today solidified it for me.
Since before the SGIA show i've been looking at all sorts of equipment and trying to get my ducks in a row to make new purchases this coming year, and one thing that's stuck out to me from talking to the sales reps of various manufacturers are how they go out of their way to bash the Roq/sRoque stuff whenever the topic of presses come up. I find it odd because most all of them seem to 'have a customer that hates it and if they did it over, wouldn't go with a roq', yet when I pick the brains of said shop owners, there's not a bad thing to say about it and they're usually in the process of adding another one, or had just added another one to their shop.
Equipment is touchy subject because everyone has their way of doing things (I myself have an m&r for now), but I just find it weird that sales folks and other individuals are so quick to bash the products (thinking that'll make their product sound better?) and give extremely opposite opinions of the people that actually own the equipment.
So in short, what gives?
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Viable threat.
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So i've been sitting on this question for a while now trying to decide if I should post or not, but today solidified it for me.
Since before the SGIA show i've been looking at all sorts of equipment and trying to get my ducks in a row to make new purchases this coming year, and one thing that's stuck out to me from talking to the sales reps of various manufacturers are how they go out of their way to bash the Roq/sRoque stuff whenever the topic of presses come up. I find it odd because most all of them seem to 'have a customer that hates it and if they did it over, wouldn't go with a roq', yet when I pick the brains of said shop owners, there's not a bad thing to say about it and they're usually in the process of adding another one, or had just added another one to their shop.
Equipment is touchy subject because everyone has their way of doing things (I myself have an m&r for now), but I just find it weird that sales folks and other individuals are so quick to bash the products (thinking that'll make their product sound better?) and give extremely opposite opinions of the people that actually own the equipment.
So in short, what gives?
"What Gives?" is that you've been hearing the pitch of some Lazy Salesmen who think the best strategy is to blast the competition by telling you how bad their equipment is, instead of presenting the features, benefits and value of their offering.
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What Gives?
I think it is a problem that the industry, in the United States has had for a long time. A Shrinking Screen print market
In the USA both in Graphic And Textile with not a lot of competition until recently. The Ones that "have" want to hold on
to what they have, and technology in manufacturing and internet communications have created "new" opportunities to the
USA market for "newcomers" (Roq) as well as "oldcomers" (Workhorse with the "sabre' press). Roq is a serious contender!
They have new ownership with new money and a Great Product Line. They are coming in to the US market, and will take their
share. No doubt about it. They are VERY strong in the international markets and the US is "gravy" for them. Vice versa for US
manufacturers. They now have to compete In international market to sustain their size and hope for growth, In a VERY competitive world. That being said, I think "people" get nervous when change is in the mist. I agree with Peter! A good salesman
should sell the benefits of their offerings and refrain from ugliness. Customers are a lot smarter than some give credit. I for
one will not do business with anyone, if possible that shows bad traits!
winston
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What Gives?
I think it is a problem that the industry, in the United States has had for a long time. A Shrinking Screen print market
In the USA both in Graphic And Textile with not a lot of competition until recently. The Ones that "have" want to hold on
to what they have, and technology in manufacturing and internet communications have created "new" opportunities to the
USA market for "newcomers" (Roq) as well as "oldcomers" (Workhorse with the "sabre' press). Roq is a serious contender!
They have new ownership with new money and a Great Product Line. They are coming in to the US market, and will take their
share. No doubt about it. They are VERY strong in the international markets and the US is "gravy" for them. Vice versa for US
manufacturers. They now have to compete In international market to sustain their size and hope for growth, In a VERY competitive world. That being said, I think "people" get nervous when change is in the mist. I agree with Peter! A good salesman
should sell the benefits of their offerings and refrain from ugliness. Customers are a lot smarter than some give credit. I for
one will not do business with anyone, if possible that shows bad traits!
winston
Winston: This is one of those posts where I wish there was a LIKE button!
I hope that you are keeping well, and that we can catch up in Long Beach next month.
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Bashing is a sign of a week salesman/woman. Owners insight is pricele$$!
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When we were getting ready to buy a new press just over a year ago we encountered a similar thing. I would stop short of saying they "bashed" BUT the word S-Roque couldn't even come out of their mouths. "That green thing." (a direct quote from one higher up blue sales person) was more typical.
Ryonet has blatantly antagonized blue. When you poke the monster the monsters knee jerk reaction is to poke back.
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Ryonet has blatantly antagonized blue. When you poke the monster the monsters knee jerk reaction is to poke back.
You've correctly pointed out what I saw play out on Instagram. Let's remember it started with Ryonet/Sroq antagonizing M&R. I met a couple of the Ryonet/Sroq people at SGIA and they were nice people. One is clawing for market share in the USA and the other is setting sales records and expanding manufacturing. I can't say a negative thing about either other than I saw one of the Sroq techs on IG really going at M&R on a regular basis for a period of time.
That type of thing can explode in your face. See AREDUBYABEE for how that's worked out for him, he's on local TV in his PJ's selling booster beds....and at least Sroq isn't taking money from people and not shipping presses. Danny loves his and I don't doubt they are great for a second.
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For a while I made a few bucks selling industrial equipment. One of the things I never did EVER was bash my competition's product or the person who represented it. Not because I am a nice guy (I am not) but because it always comes off as an act of desperation and weakness. Additionally it is a dead give away, when a bashing point is brought up in a competitive situation, the undertones / the real message from the salesperson should be real clear.....
First the message is Damn ..I am going to loose another sale to those bums.....
The second message is Damn this customer is at least a little educated on the products of interest and he /she has, no doubt, established a base line of what they want and need and I am going to come up short
OK doesn't look like I am going to get this sale, screw it let me poison this customers decision so every time something doesn't go right when he buys that junk he will hear I TOLD YOU SO.
At the end of the day you get to decide if you are going to buy from the mouse or the eagle.
mooseman
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I spent a good bit of time talking with Bobby at SGIA, super nice to me and he knows my situation and relationship with blue. Treated me with respect as I did him. Showed me some cool features that they offer that I have not seen anywhere else. Definitely worth looking at if you are in the market, but, I see service in small areas like where I live to be a problem. May not be, but I bet it is. I only jokingly mess with Danny outside the TSB to give him a hard time, green, blue, red, brown, white, think there is even a burgundy one out there now, they all get results.
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When we were getting ready to buy a new press just over a year ago we encountered a similar thing. I would stop short of saying they "bashed" BUT the word S-Roque couldn't even come out of their mouths. "That green thing." (a direct quote from one higher up blue sales person) was more typical.
Ryonet has blatantly antagonized blue. When you poke the monster the monsters knee jerk reaction is to poke back.
Nobody is innocent in this topic. We spent a solid 2 years planning our shop upgrade. We talked in depth over that time with multiple manufacturers, reps ect. For the most part everyone does their normal and stands by their brand. But, there is always going to be a little bash here and there. Everyone has to admit, when one brand goes out of their way to make a video of people beating up another brand with sledge hammers, they should expect some sort of blow back, and NOBODY should be shocked if said brand being beat up with a sledgehammer is a little pissed. Of course the press being sledgehammered was probably well over 20 years old and needed to be put out of it's misery the way it looked like it was kept up ect, and the work it was put through, any machine in that condition is ready to become an artificial reef. That being said. Like you said Mike, if someone pokes, they should expect to be poked back, but that's the manufacturer's battle, we are the printers that they all want to work with. We have friends on both of these mentioned sides and do our best to stay out of any back and forth between them. It's up to all of us to stay on all the brands to live up to their promises and the competition they all have has really ramped up the tech in our industry, so there is a good side we all benefit from. Sales guys and reps should just stay out of politics and just stand behind their brand, like we all do with our shops.
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For the record... Ryonet never bashed M&R when we were looking at S-Roque. They did what adult professionals do. We told them what we wanted in a press and they were able to provide a press and solutions that overcame all of our objections and that addressed all of our needs. In comparing green to blue they were quite respectful of M&R. They compared features/benefits etc of both and were able to "sell" us on them and the S-Roque press. A decision that we have zero regrets about.
Our experience with M&R during this process was VASTLY different. Something they should take a look at IMO
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I'm with most, it's really poor salesmanship. A guy was in here a few months back and spoke of a shoddy build, but of course having not seen one, I had no input. There are a few folks here though running them, and I haven't seen anyone complaining. So I also would say that you need to talk to owners, and not necessarily the ones they tell you to call, in case there may be a bias there. We run MHM and M&R, both solid builds; the M&R is 21 years old, and still cranks; the MHM is 12 years old and is a really great press. Good luck hunting.
Steve
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For the record... Ryonet never bashed M&R when we were looking at S-Roque. They did what adult professionals do. We told them what we wanted in a press and they were able to provide a press and solutions that overcame all of our objections and that addressed all of our needs. In comparing green to blue they were quite respectful of M&R. They compared features/benefits etc of both and were able to "sell" us on them and the S-Roque press. A decision that we have zero regrets about.
Our experience with M&R during this process was VASTLY different. Something they should take a look at IMO
I can attest to that. In all our time with Ryan, he never had a bad thing to say, in fact he always said how he admired Rich. Josh and Joao as well. In fact when those guys heard about our final desicion, they all went out of their way to either email or call and congratulate us on our new equipment and were classy about the whole thing. There are a couple other jaded folks in their crew though, but you can't control everyone. For the most part though, their focus was on their product and how solid they want people to know it is. You were also cool enough to invite us to your shop a couple times, sorry we never made it out, we will meet up one day. Rick Ramirez had a lot of nice things to say about you. You know how it is, you think you can get out of the shop, and damned if something else pops up and it's 10 pm lol.
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I can attest to that. I all our time with Ryan, he never had a bad thing to say, in fact he always said how he admired Rich. Josh and Joao as well. In fact when those guys heard about our final desicion, they all went out of their way to either email or call and congratulate us on our new equipment and we classy about the whole thing.
That is the kind of thing all companies should do. Sadly, all we heard were crickets from the other side, which in a small way help reinforce our decision.
The invitation is open ended BTW :)
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What Gives?
I think it is a problem that the industry, in the United States has had for a long time. A Shrinking Screen print market
In the USA both in Graphic And Textile with not a lot of competition until recently. The Ones that "have" want to hold on
to what they have, and technology in manufacturing and internet communications have created "new" opportunities to the
USA market for "newcomers" (Roq) as well as "oldcomers" (Workhorse with the "sabre' press). Roq is a serious contender!
They have new ownership with new money and a Great Product Line. They are coming in to the US market, and will take their
share. No doubt about it. They are VERY strong in the international markets and the US is "gravy" for them. Vice versa for US
manufacturers. They now have to compete In international market to sustain their size and hope for growth, In a VERY competitive world. That being said, I think "people" get nervous when change is in the mist. I agree with Peter! A good salesman
should sell the benefits of their offerings and refrain from ugliness. Customers are a lot smarter than some give credit. I for
one will not do business with anyone, if possible that shows bad traits!
winston
Winston: This is one of those posts where I wish there was a LIKE button!
I hope that you are keeping well, and that we can catch up in Long Beach next month.
Peter! Would love to catch up in Long Beach.
As far as not having a "LIKE" button, might I suggest a $5dollar NazDar/Source One gift certificate to "IN-N- OUT BURGERS" 8)
At the end of the day, A rising tide lifts ALL ships. Competition is good for any healthy industry. It pushes us all to do and be
Better! I am most certain NazDar/ Source One Enjoys Selling To All, Regardless of Color. You Lead A Good Organization, And
It Shows.
Cheers
winston
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I'm with most, it's really poor salesmanship. A guy was in here a few months back and spoke of a shoddy build, but of course having not seen one, I had no input. There are a few folks here though running them, and I haven't seen anyone complaining. So I also would say that you need to talk to owners, and not necessarily the ones they tell you to call, in case there may be a bias there. We run MHM and M&R, both solid builds; the M&R is 21 years old, and still cranks; the MHM is 12 years old and is a really great press. Good luck hunting.
Steve
You're more than welcome to come visit if you wanted to take a peak and play around with mine.
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For the record... Ryonet never bashed M&R when we were looking at S-Roque. They did what adult professionals do. We told them what we wanted in a press and they were able to provide a press and solutions that overcame all of our objections and that addressed all of our needs. In comparing green to blue they were quite respectful of M&R. They compared features/benefits etc of both and were able to "sell" us on them and the S-Roque press. A decision that we have zero regrets about.
Our experience with M&R during this process was VASTLY different. Something they should take a look at IMO
Thanks for all of the replies and insightful info. I don't feel like a crazy person now haha.
My experience thus far is about the same as yours, '64. Currently in the process of ordering a Roq to go alongside the m&r and have heard nothing but positivity and honest answers from the Ryonet guys about both the blue and green machines and they've gone out of there way in every aspect. I can't say as much for the folks on the other side of the fence, which really rubbed me the wrong way and ultimately made my decision easier, but left me a little disappointed as I expected more from them.
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It has everything to do with who ended up as the distributor. People don't like Ryonet or like to bash on them because they have a different way of doing things. I'll tell you this, they are marketing geniuses. All companies should really take note on how to make a great online presence.
As for the machines, I have only ever owned an sroque, though I looked at Anatol, M&R, and Workhorse. For me, I fell in love with the roq from the beginning and Ryonet helped find solutions to problems I had. For me, that was the deciding factor. Never ever regretted going with the Roq.
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I'm with most, it's really poor salesmanship. A guy was in here a few months back and spoke of a shoddy build, but of course having not seen one, I had no input. There are a few folks here though running them, and I haven't seen anyone complaining. So I also would say that you need to talk to owners, and not necessarily the ones they tell you to call, in case there may be a bias there. We run MHM and M&R, both solid builds; the M&R is 21 years old, and still cranks; the MHM is 12 years old and is a really great press. Good luck hunting.
Steve
You're more than welcome to come visit if you wanted to take a peak and play around with mine.
Thanks Shane, might take you up on that when it becomes time to replace the old Gauntlet...
Steve
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Although it's been a long time since we were shopping for an auto I do remember well having conversations with many different sales people and a small percentage of them used the negative tactics. WARNING-DEVIL'S ADVOCATE COMMENT: Having also been witness to the introduction of a certain manufacturer with our favorite press guru who shall go nameless so the forum doesn't sensor the post, I can remind all of those here the few times when some "negative" comments on certain actors would have saved some people thousands and thousands of dollars had they took that advice. But was that advice simply meant to bash or did those people offering the negative comments actually care to not see someone lose their hard-earned money? I suspect that both are correct depending on the salesperson but only that person really knows the motivation behind their comments. None of the negative comments about our machine have rung true in our situation, but I have seen it happen to others that weren't as fortunate. Some people with certain brands have definitely been left "stranded" and a lot of what people consider negative sales tactics warned of exactly that. I know what I speak of is contrary to what I think salespersons should do in our industry but I can't lie and say that it's all out of spite of the other manufacturer. On more than a few occasions the bashing could have saved some shops from serious damage.
I've spoken out against this very thing many times over the years, but I'm also more wise now and have seen certain things ring true that a few years ago would be considered bashing. I'm not stupid enough to believe that ALL of the bashing comes from a place of good, but I will say it doesn't always come from a bad place.
Where do you draw the line, if at all, between saying something that is TRUE, or if it's true but negative do you not share it? This issue has come to light more recently in the political scene in the US, where people are being shamed if they say something that is absolutely a true statement but not politically correct. Are we in fact encouraging a sales person to not say something to someone looking to buy an orange press if they know of an orange machine sitting at a shop that isn't running due to lack of service? I'm not asking these questions because I know the answers, but rather to hear what others think they would want their salesperson to say if they were in the same situation. This is such a hard topic to discuss and actually be on the right side of it due to the complexity and subjective nature of the info being shared. If M&R, for example only, were to tell a shop looking to buy a certain brand press that they will be waiting 16-20 weeks to get that press or they could buy an M&R and get it in 4 weeks, that could be considered negative depending on what the truth was. If that other brand has a delivery time of 16-20 weeks then I hope others wouldn't consider telling the truth as using poor sales tactics. But at the same time, if the 16-20 week delivery is not true, I would hope the person engaging in the negative sales tactic would be called out for it and learn from their mistake.
It's a fine line.
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This topic really doesn't relate to my specific experience buying automatic presses at all since I haven't bought one, but being someone who researches large (and small) purchases to the point of maybe being too careful, here are some random thoughts:
- if sales people are bashing another brand, but those comments arent backed up by what you see on the forums or hear from owners of that brand, ignore it as sales people being sales people.
- if sales people are pointing out issues like lead times, and specific differences between the way machines work etc, rather than generally bashing a brand, they may actually have a point and it is up to you to research those specific points and weigh them.
- like with anything, whether it be reviews on amazon or thoughts from sales people and owners on an automatic press brand, people will have a wide variety of opinions, but generally with enough poking around you can get a consensus.
When it comes to ROQ specifically, I haven't really seen anyone who owns one complaining about them on any of the forums/reddit/etc the way I have with automatic brands like Anatol, Brown, or Lawson. Again, not to say those brands are inherently bad and should be avoided AT ALL, but just pointing out that I have seen enough complaints about those from end users to make me weary of owning one. The same can be said about the complaints you read about V squeegee machines, or parts availability from MHM, or micros on older gauntlets, and on and on. Comments from end users are enlightening in a way that sales talk never will be. Sometimes those complaints don't matter much, and sometimes they do...
As others have mentioned, I suspect the hate for ROQ us mostly related to them being new and taking increasing market share, and/or their relationship with Ryonet, and has nothing to do with the actual quality of the brand and feedback from end users.
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As others have mentioned, I suspect the hate for ROQ us mostly related to them being new and taking increasing market share, and/or their relationship with Ryonet, and has nothing to do with the actual quality of the brand and feedback from end users.
I bet you can chalk 85% of the haters up to dislike towards Ryonet. 10% to brand loyalty and 5% to pure ignorance.
No matter the brand, best advice is always to talk to current owners, ask if they'd buy again.
I always thought it would be sweet to have a company(my guess it would have to be primarily web based) that offered ALL brands for pallet tape to equipment. It would be interesting to see what a salesperson from a company like that would be like. I totally understand why it would never be possible, but it would be cool....
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Hate to revive this 3 month old topic but I just discovered it - don't spend much time on the forums.
I sold ROQ presses here @ Ryonet for a couple of years. ZERO unhappy clients. I never bashed the "competition" because in my mind there is no competition - there's other manufacturers that sell t-shirt printing machines but nobody makes anything like ROQ. Those other brands may fit what you are trying to accomplish - they produce results, but what ROQ provides is a very unique solution.
Sure we've poked fun at M&R, but all in good playful spirit :)
Interesting fact: No printshop has ever bought a ROQ, then decided they didn't like it and went and bought another manufacturer's machine. I know of countless people that have switched from every other brand to ROQ however.
The machines speak loudly for themselves through the users that have them, especially those that have switched over from other brands. Talk to them :)
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For what is worth, owning various manufacturer's presses is a nightmare. Nothing can be borrowed from one to fix the other in a pinch. You will become a tech of your own press with calibration and repairs. We found our parts inventory needs doubled, then tripled with another different press. Crews who used one had to be trained to use the other, flexibility was lost. From a cost standpoint having one brand in the shop was the least expensive. Then finding the brand we could work on was another plus. Some brands we owned, and loved, cost a fortune to repair, while the other had parts the next morning and walked us through the repair. All can print great looking prints, a lot of the decision making is about financing, support, in the beginning. In the long run which can you repair? Which one has a tech nearby to repair today, not next week. What are typical repair costs and issues? In the end it's not the nut holding the wheel, it's the nut behind the wheel that makes it work.
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...In the long run which can you repair? Which one has a tech nearby to repair today, not next week. What are typical repair costs and issues? In the end it's not the nut holding the wheel, it's the nut behind the wheel that makes it work.
Better yet, which one need not be repaired so often by a tech. Which one comes with a 3 year squeegee to squeegee warranty that includes parts, technician travel, AND labor?
A typical service call from big blue will run you at least a a couple thousand dollars.
The standard warranty for theirs and every other machine is 2 years.
They will cover the part if it's defective, but better believe you're paying for a technician's flight, travel expenses, and labor to come replace it.
And you'll often be forced to pay for the replacement part and be re-imbursed upon returning the defective part....A DEFECTIVE PART!?
Fact: Replacement parts and service calls are a several million dollar per year profit center for that brand everyone loves and trusts.
ROQ machines need to be serviced so few and far between and have so few mechanical issues that they simply do not break and wear down as often. We've charged $0 for replacement parts in the 3+ years of distributing these machines.
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I sold ROQ presses here @ Ryonet for a couple of years. ZERO unhappy clients. I never bashed the "competition"
In one post you say you never bashed the competition, just 1 post later you are sorta doing exactly that...no?
...In the long run which can you repair? Which one has a tech nearby to repair today, not next week. What are typical repair costs and issues? In the end it's not the nut holding the wheel, it's the nut behind the wheel that makes it work.
Better yet, which one need not be repaired so often by a tech. Which one comes with a 3 year squeegee to squeegee warranty that includes parts, technician travel, AND labor?
A typical service call from big blue will run you at least a a couple thousand dollars.
The standard warranty for theirs and every other machine is 2 years.
They will cover the part if it's defective, but better believe you're paying for a technician's flight, travel expenses, and labor to come replace it.
And you'll often be forced to pay for the replacement part and be re-imbursed upon returning the defective part....A DEFECTIVE PART!?
Fact: Replacement parts and service calls are a several million dollar per year profit center for that brand everyone loves and trusts.
ROQ machines need to be serviced so few and far between and have so few mechanical issues that they simply do not break and wear down as often. We've charged $0 for replacement parts in the 3+ years of distributing these machines.
Also:
Interesting fact: No printshop has ever bought a ROQ, then decided they didn't like it and went and bought another manufacturer's machine. I know of countless people that have switched from every other brand to ROQ however.
The machines speak loudly for themselves through the users that have them, especially those that have switched over from other brands. Talk to them :)
While you are busy posturing and taking shots. FYI There is someone on this very board with serious issues with his ROQ and its been going on for awhile now. Maybe you should look into that? I think Danny had to step in somewhat recently and twist some arms to get any movement on this issue. I haven't seen a update but its worth you looking into while you have time to be throwing stones.
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I started to say the same as Brandt did just now, yesterday! I didn't want to throw stones, but since you mentioned Blue, what you did say about them is not necessarily true, and I can only speak for my situation. Blue will show up for me almost anytime and will do the right thing when it comes to charges if there are any at all. Back to Green, I personally know more than 1 shop that has green and hates it! I would suggest learning of all those situations before making all the bold statements you have made here with only the few posts you have. I also know guys who have them and love them. So, just to keep the facts straight. Guys on this board are educated and if you rattle off facts, you better make sure they are true or someone will let you know quick!
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I hate to stir the pot, but ....
Better yet, which one need not be repaired so often by a tech. Which one comes with a 3 year squeegee to squeegee warranty that includes parts, technician travel, AND labor?
ALL machines, no matter what the color will break down. What matters is if you can get quality support that can help you troubleshoot the issue right away, as well as getting parts locally.
A typical service call from big blue will run you at least a a couple thousand dollars.
The standard warranty for theirs and every other machine is 2 years.
They will cover the part if it's defective, but better believe you're paying for a technician's flight, travel expenses, and labor to come replace it.
M&R offers a quite inexpensive 1 week long intensive training program in their factory where you can learn how to troubleshoot, replace and maintain those parts yourself. If Roq offers something like that, I certainly haven't heard about it.
Their techs (if you're willing will also walk you through the replacement procedures over the phone, unless something severely went wrong with the press you wouldn't NEED to have someone come out)
ROQ machines need to be serviced so few and far between and have so few mechanical issues that they simply do not break and wear down as often. We've charged $0 for replacement parts in the 3+ years of distributing these machines.
of course you have, you've only been distributing them for 3-4 years now... wait till these presses are 7-8 years old with 20 million+ impressions on them, and then let's talk again.
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OK, I think Josh got the point, lets give him a moment to take a breath and regroup.
Josh, please don't let the commentary scare you, please stick with us. It will give you better understanding of what is going on overall and it will give us somebody from ROQ clan to answer our questions.
pierre
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It seems I have to repeat myself here. I just removed a bunch of posts stating what was already said and piling on after I clearly said not to.
This is not a welcome to a new member I would expect from this community. None of us know everything and we all have a lot to learn. Give Josh a chance to contribute here and see what is going on outside the ROQ building.
Pierre
P.s. Feel free to call him out if something posted is not true, but calling anybody names is not necessary. Contribute content, not slander.
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Maybe you're right that sounded a little bashy, that wasn't my intent. I'll choose my words a bit more sensitively next time.
As stated before, I can only speak from personal experience with the clients I've worked with. No, I haven't spoke to every automatic press owner in the world - but I've spoken with a lot of them from all walks of life.
I don't do sales anymore, my intent is to share truthful knowledge based on my experiences so that other people can make up their own minds.
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It appears that Pierre has addressed the issue, but for the record, I had a rush of shirt work have not read this entire thread, and had nothing to do with any deletions. I have not spoken with Pierre, but we three generally don't hinder individual actions. We do, as a group, all support any actions that help keep this place civil.
I will say, that two of the best presses in the industry are sold and distributed by folks that many would avoid if at all possible, but are stuck with.
This may be part of the basis of the hassle here.
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If my info is correct, this forum takes ad dollars from Roq. One of this forums owners is actively shopping with Roq. We are to believe this has nothing to do with this sudden censorship of Alex?
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So we can expect our posts to be deleted if it doesn't fit the opinion of the board owners. Cool.
My post merely stated my opinion. I didn't buy a ROQ because of the behavior they consistently have that LITERALLY took place in this thread TODAY.
edit: I should mention, I don't own an M&R press either. (Besides a Kruzer that gets used once a month, maybe) For me, this isn't a Blue vs. Green stance.
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I just got to say this and then keep my fat mouth shut, this is a M&R driving place here, I think we all agree on that (Rich has gain the respect here), I said this long time ago no one I mean on one promotes any equipment here unless M&R is all up in it some how, and they get a azz kicking and leaves. Not that they have bad equipment or anything you just can't do it here, it's a blue world and again Rich/M&R has earn that respect from a ton of members here. I want even bring my press company name back up in here anymore and I don't think they care to come and promote here or a few other companies for the same reason DRAMA!!!, fact is you don't ever compare your equipment to M&R unless your ready to back it up and be in it for the long haul, again they have earn that RESPECT here, now this is where I shut my fat trap ;D
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If my info is correct, this forum takes ad dollars from Roq. One of this forums owners is actively shopping with Roq. We are to believe this has nothing to do with this sudden censorship of Alex?
We run and receive advertising dollars from Roq, and not, I repeat NOT Ryonet.
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Well I guess I'm pretty much done on here.
My postS that were removed had to do with the disgust of the post and inaccuracy from J-Man. Yes, I called a name, but I don't know if I have ever been a "calmed matter individual".
I do not believe or feel it has anything to do with a Pierre conspiracy, you guys may be reaching on that one. More censoring me calling names. I know I slipped a douche-bag in back in the day though! ;D
I could be TOTALLy wrong, but in the past TSB would not accept advertising from Ryonet, but were open to advertising for Roq Portugal.
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um
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If my info is correct, this forum takes ad dollars from Roq. One of this forums owners is actively shopping with Roq. We are to believe this has nothing to do with this sudden censorship of Alex?
We run and receive advertising dollars from Roq, and not, I repeat NOT Ryonet.
Good info. Thanks for sharing. Ryonet being what I assume the largest if not the only US seller of Roq equipment you can see how one draws the connection to this situation with Alex being censored when largely insults and name calling has gone on here for years.
This is where it gets sketchy running a board for profit, you can be influenced by money. Just like a politician. Let's hope that isn't the case here.
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Alternate opinion:
I am looking at this as "Welcome to the forums Josh. You may want to double check your approach here though. Let's give this another go." As opposed to letting everyone drive him away.
The more people that post actively on here representing various distributors and suppliers, the better. As long as it doesn't turn into childish bashing of each other. We've already seen that way back.
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Shirt Boaders - selling and servicing screen printing machinery in the US is a very competitive game, our guys understandably get a little zealous at times like any competitive team out there (reference Seahawks v. Patriots Super Bowl 49 after the Wilson interception). Agreed it's not how we should handle ourselves though it comes from a place of passion. Sorry for the hornets nest - thanks for commenting on both sides! R
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If my info is correct, this forum takes ad dollars from Roq. One of this forums owners is actively shopping with Roq. We are to believe this has nothing to do with this sudden censorship of Alex?
And M&R buys a lot of steak dinners for members here you seem to have no issue with that... just sayin
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Shirt Boaders - selling and servicing screen printing machinery in the US is a very competitive game, our guys understandably get a little zealous at times like any competitive team out there (reference Seahawks v. Patriots Super Bowl 49 after the Wilson interception). Agreed it's not how we should handle ourselves though it comes from a place of passion. Sorry for the hornets nest - thanks for commenting on both sides! R
Awesome that you have joined in here Ryan, I challenge you to be more active here and help represent your brand and products. It helps everyone, you included.
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Okay, from what I see, one issue was Alex stepping over our line of friendliness and civility.
Brandt's accusation of Pierre making decisions about censorship on his own interests was, at the very least, provocative, and accusatory.
Bottom line, at the end of the day, your three stooges are held responsible for this forum, and how it seems to visitors. They may also be affected by personal attacks (imagine that!)
If keeping it friendly and professional, and civil means a little housekeeping now and then, or even occasionally changing the locks and losing some boarders, so be it.
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So we can expect our posts to be deleted if it doesn't fit the opinion of the board owners. Cool.
My post merely stated my opinion. I didn't buy a ROQ because of the behavior they consistently have that LITERALLY took place in this thread TODAY.
edit: I should mention, I don't own an M&R press either. (Besides a Kruzer that gets used once a month, maybe) For me, this isn't a Blue vs. Green stance.
this is after all our house and if I respectful ask for something I would hope that at least as a courtesy it is conformed to. Feel free to contact me personally and argue the merits of my decisions, but let's leave the mud slinging out of the public eyes!
Andy said it much better than I could, please reread his post.
ALL manufacturers, suppliers and the industry that serves us are welcome here. They will all have an opportunity to blossom or hang themselves. They will even get a second chance. Having them here for one, pays the bills to keep the doors open, but more importantly, it provides us with a direct line of communication with ppl on the ground floor. There is ZERO preferential treatment based on the advertising or anything else. Rich has a stellar reputation here because he EARNED IT! Anatol was given a second chance and they did not do anything with it. ROQ is coming onboard and instead of giving them a chance we are starting on the wrong foot. The points were made, what I believe to be valid points at that, but pounding is not helping, but just the opposite. We should welcome this as an opportunity to help us all out.
And just for the record, to eliminate any doubts, I am shopping for equipment as previously stated. I just bought something from M&R, and am looking at MHM, ROQ and M&R for the next press, MHM being most likely purchase. Anybody thinking that I will get a better deal because I defended them here on the forum is not thinking clearly. We have allowed negative information on here, the only requirement was that it was factual without mud slinging.
Anybody having issues with this feel free to contact me directly. I will gladly talk and explain my points. I will even admit when wrong and publicly correct any mistakes. It seems Shane is the only one of the posters that got our msg. . .
Anybody wishing to discuss this topic further please start a new thread where we can discuss the merits of our policies and actions.
Please keep this thread on topic of the Green Machine disdain . . .
pierre
EDIT: and the first post here proves me wrong as dirkdiggler was another person getting the msg!
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Awesome that you have joined in here Ryan, I challenge you to be more active here and help represent your brand and products. It helps everyone, you included.
Thanks dirkdiggler! The amount of knowledge and industry pulse gained from these boards is impressive and imperative to people who work in screen printing.
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Awesome that you have joined in here Ryan, I challenge you to be more active here and help represent your brand and products. It helps everyone, you included.
Thanks dirkdiggler! The amount of knowledge and industry pulse gained from these boards is impressive and imperative to people who work in screen printing.
Really only this board! The others have information, but you have to weed through so much junk to find real answers. The community here is the most knowledgeable in the industry IMO. Would be nice to see you and your youtube videos geared more toward advanced techniques and not catering to mostly newbies. Your voice is loud on the interwebs, it would only be better for all of us.
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Awesome that you have joined in here Ryan, I challenge you to be more active here and help represent your brand and products. It helps everyone, you included.
Thanks dirkdiggler! The amount of knowledge and industry pulse gained from these boards is impressive and imperative to people who work in screen printing.
Really only this board! The others have information, but you have to weed through so much junk to find real answers. The community here is the most knowledgeable in the industry IMO. Would be nice to see you and your youtube videos geared more toward advanced techniques and not catering to mostly newbies. Your voice is loud on the interwebs, it would only be better for all of us.
Awesome - we are on it - filming one tomorrow actually :) Now I will say this, I'm very excited to have our ROQ Eco back in action @ryonet HQ! Printing manually is definitely not as attractive anymore. Excited to be able to meet and learn from all of you!
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My reaction coming back to the thread after today.
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/fire_community.gif)