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screen printing => Separations => Topic started by: prokegler on November 10, 2015, 01:51:24 AM
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Hello Experts!
I am about to embark on my first Sim Process print project as soon as I get my QS error corrected per my previous post.
Can anyone give me some tips on printing this design? It will be in the 13" range on Black ts. Once I lay down the white under base and flash, are the rest of the colors printed wet on wet? I'm assuming I need to use 200+ mesh for the top colors?
Thank you for your expertise and any help you can throw my way!!
I am finding myself overwhelmed even though the videos make it look simple!
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until you learn to print sim process, you should be using a separator to prep your files rather than a program. A person will help you get going and teach you how to print. When you are at a point where you can look at the seps and know if there are any issues, you should avoid using computer generated seps. See Dan or Scott here on the board to get going!
pierre
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do yourself a favour and use someone like Scott at My Seps, just did one from him white base and 5 colours WOW and worked perfect.
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Only my two cents, but this looks like pretty easy art to sep. You really aren't dealing with too many areas, with the exception of the simple fade in the flame on the top car, that are actually blending colors like Sim process. Lots of halftone and dialing in your top white will be important, but sepping this is just a matter of masking out areas and adjusting some curves. Nothing approaching the complexity of sepping a photo or painting.
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While my next statement is self serving for separatore, I agree. For the first few jobs you want to use a separator who will do thing a shop owner won't be as experienced to do. For example, the owner may sep it themselves but may add in more colors or less colors than they really need. They may not use the best mesh and Lpi, may not choose the best colors to do the blend that works with 2-3 other colors better than something you might pull off the shelf called BLUE. They may not know they can do it another way that would yield better results. Then, you have the actual seps skills. Seeing these files allow you to review, and start to understand why we did what we did. This then, makes you a better separator when you start into your own.
Separators do sep work for a much wider variety of print restriction and requirements as well as types of printers. In general, we have more background at what works best.
For this job,
Use the primary colors of red blue and yellow, but also use a gray. Some will take the blavk and lay halftones of blavk all over that...but this causes more problems then saving the gray color is worth.
When you print the base white, still use a semi high mesh to hold detail (and) for the fact that you want to have that base white look more like a gray, not a bright white. Your top white will do that for you.
Cut the mid tones of your black back much more than the other colors. Make sure to pre adjust your halftones ranges so that your 50% prints close to 50 on the shirt by taking that 50 down to 35-40.
If you separate this
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Sorry, typing while on a plane.
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the guys are giving very good advice, but to answer your question, after you flash your base, the rest of the colors can be wet on wet. The last 2 colors will be black, and highlight white last, at least that's how we like it. Depending on how it looks, we occasionally flash before the highlight white... we run most of our top colors on 280, some 230 depending on the design.
Steve
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Forgot that part.
I never thought it was common but just last week, I came across a shop that flashes every color. No one perfect way I guess but for me, the print comes out softer and better. I can't think of a train to intend to flash all colors.
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Thank you everyone for the awesome feedback.
Looks like I'll possibly be reclaiming many screens until I get it right, lol. Luckily, this actual print doesn't have to please anyone but me (except for the end buyer who I guess has to like it too), hmmmm, what a concept.
I seem to have to make a choice as to keep the gray or hilite white as I only have a 6 color press which I may have forgotten to mention. I'm thinking because of this, maybe the choice is to lessen the mid tones of black as suggested and keep the hilite white to give the design it's final pop.
Thanks again everyone!!
This learning curve is steep!!!! Throw me a rope!!
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Making sure that the base white really prints to look gray, helps to make the gray in the white cars/parts. Doing this, enables you to use less black. Less is more.
Typically, you might want to use a 230 on base...but print it light by passing the stroke semi fast, and not heavy on the print pressure. Heavy pressure just drives it in. Use a semi hard squeegee 70 or even a 70/90/70 if you got one on the base and top colors.
Gray or a light application of the base white provides just enough white to support the top colors. Yellow for example, does not need 100% solid bright white to support it. It may only need 80-90% tint. This is why halftone underbases provide for a softer hand. Requires slightly higher mesh and not a heavy ink landown.
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Thank you very much Dan.... I will try and post my results!!!
Wish me luck!!!!
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Making sure that the base white really prints to look gray, helps to make the gray in the white cars/parts. Doing this, enables you to use less black. Less is more.
Typically, you might want to use a 230 on base...but print it light by passing the stroke semi fast, and not heavy on the print pressure. Heavy pressure just drives it in. Use a semi hard squeegee 70 or even a 70/90/70 if you got one on the base and top colors.
Gray or a light application of the base white provides just enough white to support the top colors. Yellow for example, does not need 100% solid bright white to support it. It may only need 80-90% tint. This is why halftone underbases provide for a softer hand. Requires slightly higher mesh and not a heavy ink landown.
this only works if you are using opaque colors on the top. We are using Unimatch from Union which is almost as translucent as the four color process inks and it will not work with anything but white ubase. So white vs gray will depend on your ink system!
pierre
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Making sure that the base white really prints to look gray, helps to make the gray in the white cars/parts. Doing this, enables you to use less black. Less is more.
Typically, you might want to use a 230 on base...but print it light by passing the stroke semi fast, and not heavy on the print pressure. Heavy pressure just drives it in. Use a semi hard squeegee 70 or even a 70/90/70 if you got one on the base and top colors.
Gray or a light application of the base white provides just enough white to support the top colors. Yellow for example, does not need 100% solid bright white to support it. It may only need 80-90% tint. This is why halftone underbases provide for a softer hand. Requires slightly higher mesh and not a heavy ink landown.
this only works if you are using opaque colors on the top. We are using Unimatch from Union which is almost as translucent as the four color process inks and it will not work with anything but white ubase. So white vs gray will depend on your ink system!
pierre
You could be right for your water thin inks. ;)
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The only tiny part I would throw in is when you start printing, do not even think you have a problem in a setup until you have printed at least 6 - 8 images.
I feel that wet on wet takes a few prints for the colors to settle in for the long haul.
Anyone else agree?
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The only tiny part I would throw in is when you start printing, do not even think you have a problem in a setup until you have printed at least 6 - 8 images.
I feel that wet on wet takes a few prints for the colors to settle in for the long haul.
Anyone else agree?
Agreed for sure with sim process.
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I think a lot of first timers, myself included, started making adjustments right away trying to fix this and fix that and only got deeper in the hole.
Let things settle in before you start to panic.
I like wet on wet when sepped right and you can do so much with just a handful of screens. Sometimes 4-5 screens can look like 7-9 screens.
And I sure ain't no expert at it, lol.
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The only tiny part I would throw in is when you start printing, do not even think you have a problem in a setup until you have printed at least 6 - 8 images.
I feel that wet on wet takes a few prints for the colors to settle in for the long haul.
Anyone else agree?
yup, color gets close in 6-8. It takes 20 to fully settle for us. Red takes the longest.
pierre
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OK, here it is.
1. Base White medium speed, heavy pressure double stroke (single stroke not bright enough for my liking) on a 200 mesh!
2. Red double stroke 230 mesh to get brightness where I wanted it.
3. Blue double stroke (again for darker look) on a 230 mesh
4. Double yellow on a 230 mesh
5. Black single medium pressure stroke on 305...(first used 200 and much too much black!) Accidentally used the 200 for black! Brain freeze!!
6. Hi Lite White medium single stroke 230 mesh.
All in all, I can live with this print. I'm sure there are better methods and if I were doing this type of printing all the time it would be useful knowledge to have.
If I were doing this type of printing ALL OF THE TIME, I would buy an AUTOMATIC!!!! Just sayin'
Critques welcomed!!
Thank you all for the advice you gave me. I ALMOST feel like a pro (NOT) but you did make me feel more comfortable in my endeavor!! Now, I hope I sell them all..... 200 + hoodies and t's!!
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Not a bad job, but it could use more detail in the shadow area's, sometimes there is no need to print a black and use your white and other colors to give you that detail, but since you did print a black I would have mix a little of the white base in a halftone under the black for detail. Over all looks like what you wanted and that is the main thing, because every print I do ain't up to everyone's taste but I like it LOL good work ;)
d
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Thanks 3Deep. I wish I were more versatile in Photoshop. Lol, I'm self taught and I HATE TO READ!!!!!!! I know just enough to get me in trouble!!
There are many things I would love to be able to figure out but not sure what to look for to create the images I want. Hi-lighting and shadowing in original art are 2 of them.....
All of these car images are my own tracing of an original pic of the champs at our local track.....
After pondering over night, I decided to try something a little different.
1. Double stroke base heavy pressure
2. Single stroke heavy pressure Blue, Red
3. Single stroke Medium pressure black
4. Double heavy pressure Yellow
5. Single medium Hi lite White.......
This time, I flashed between EVERY color just long enough to run the stroke of each color. (Previous pic had flash only on UNDERBASE White).
This method gave me a much smoother print and I like it even more.
Also printed on a Charcoal T to get an idea of what it would look like....