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Embroidery => General Embroidery => Topic started by: Sirchopz on November 05, 2015, 11:43:19 AM
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Hey Mentor Squad, i have a couple of Questions about Embroidering. I have been screen-printing for 13 yrs. I turn down many jobs for Embroidering because I do not have one. What I send them to a couple of guys that I know they do that. But lately I have been getting more and more request for it. Ever since I got involved with schools. :D
Question 1: Should I buy a embroidering system?
Question 2: Which kind? I have $12K to spend.
What will be the Pros/Cons from all Squads experience?
Thank you
Chopz.
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1. yes.
2. look for a used barudan or tajima. 4 head preferably, but $12 might not get you enough machine. A 2 head isn't bad, but it's slow.
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MK162, so you recommend a wait a bit more to come up with more cash? Your thoughts?
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either that or take out a loan. keep your cash. Barudan's lease is pretty easy.
There are tax advantages for loans or leases. Check with your CPA.
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12k Wont get you real far unless you go pretty old, don't forget software as well. Which isn't cheap. Figure 3k-15k for that.
Single head will frustrate you and you wont make real money. Go 2 head at least. 4 Head if you want to make money, 6 if you have space as often the cost to go to 6 head from 4 isn't much difference.
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Thank you all for this eye opener...I will look into a loan this will be the first time I do this...
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Do Not produce your own digitizing until you learn to run the embroidery machine, you will have your hands full with that alone JMO
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To help you decide. Lets say you average 15k Stitch files and you can run it 1k stitches per minute and there is zero time between runs and no machine stops (LOL).
That's:
4 per hour on a 1 head
8 per hour on a 2 head
16 per hour on a 4 head
24 per hour on a 6 head
Let's say you are getting $5 per item.
That's:
$20 per hour on a 1 head
$40 per hour on a 2 head
$80 per hour on a 4 head
$120 per hour on a 6 head
Then consider what you pay someone a hour to run it, you can see how on a single head that wouldn't get you far. Then consider time to digitize files or cost to have them digitized. If you paid some kid $10 a hour to run your 1 head your lucky if you make $10 a hour on that machine before thread/materials/overhead/taxes/etc. Then consider running a 6 head paying that same $10 a hour. Your making money. But then again you wont get much of a operator for $10 a hour.
Do Not produce your own digitizing until you learn to run the embroidery machine, you will have your hands full with that alone JMO
Also excellent advice.
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WOW. real information. Thank you.
This means on software; i can send the design somewhere to get digitize. Correct?
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yes there are plenty of online digitizers.
I do recommend simple software for edits like color changes, names and so on.
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just sent you a PM contact me if you are interested.
mooseman
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To help you decide. Lets say you average 15k Stitch files and you can run it 1k stitches per minute and there is zero time between runs and no machine stops (LOL).
That's:
4 per hour on a 1 head
8 per hour on a 2 head
16 per hour on a 4 head
24 per hour on a 6 head
Let's say you are getting $5 per item.
That's:
$20 per hour on a 1 head
$40 per hour on a 2 head
$80 per hour on a 4 head
$120 per hour on a 6 head
Then consider what you pay someone a hour to run it, you can see how on a single head that wouldn't get you far. Then consider time to digitize files or cost to have them digitized. If you paid some kid $10 a hour to run your 1 head your lucky if you make $10 a hour on that machine before thread/materials/overhead/taxes/etc. Then consider running a 6 head paying that same $10 a hour. Your making money. But then again you wont get much of a operator for $10 a hour.
Do Not produce your own digitizing until you learn to run the embroidery machine, you will have your hands full with that alone JMO
Also excellent advice.
this is a good example of what you should be thinking! GD also mentions that the numbers are best case scenario, no breaks and running at 1k stitches per minute. My guess is you will average $75 per hour on a 6 head if you get everything properly organized.
two thoughts here,
a properly running automatic can bring you four times as much per hour, would you be better off selling more screenprinting? The return can be much higher.
second, if you are going to do this, run some numbers and figure out realistically what you can get in sales and see if it's worth it. Take GD's numbers and divide them in half. Can you make money with that after you pay all the expenses (admin overhead, garment handling before production, actual embroidery, trim/steam after production, shipping/delivery and administrative to close the paperwork and collect the money)?
pierre
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Exactly, the real numbers are worse. I gave optimal situation and its still poor outlook for 1-2 head really. I would suggest cutting at least 1/3rd off it is more realistic, sometimes its in half as suggested. Knowing what I know now, id never buy less than a 4 head. Ever.
Now of course you will have jobs that are more profitable and such but you have to work off some real numbers.
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I disagree with Brandt on the 4 head thing...here's why...
Depending on your market a 1-2 head machine can supplement a 4-6 head machine with things like names, numbers or even small runs that a larger machine would lose to many heads for.
I would never start with a machine with less than 4 heads, that's for sure. But a 1-2 can be a great addition to a shop that does more customization.
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I disagree with Brandt on the 4 head thing...here's why...
Depending on your market a 1-2 head machine can supplement a 4-6 head machine with things like names, numbers or even small runs that a larger machine would lose to many heads for.
I would never start with a machine with less than 4 heads, that's for sure. But a 1-2 can be a great addition to a shop that does more customization.
I know this, id sure feel a lot worse about having a single head and not being able to go faster than I would about having a 6 head that only has 1 head being used for 1 item now and then. Ill never understand the worry about empty heads on a machine now and then.
That is like saying don't buy a car that can go over the speed limit, since you aren't using it the excess at all times. The idea of a machine is that it should be able to do things faster or in higher volume when needed. You don't have to fill it up all the time, it wont melt. I promise ;)
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wrong wrong wrong.
Just kidding. I like the idea of both just like I like our 1 color manual. I wouldn't print large orders on there, but for strange items or sleeve prints it's great.
I see both sides. And currently we only run a 6 head. We will probably add a single next year with the personalization starts back up.
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wrong wrong wrong.
Just kidding. I like the idea of both just like I like our 1 color manual. I wouldn't print large orders on there, but for strange items or sleeve prints it's great.
I see both sides. And currently we only run a 6 head. We will probably add a single next year with the personalization starts back up.
To each their own right. I guess I buy for the future, not for today.
Why not buy a 4 or 6 head? Then when you get those 500pcs orders you have capacity and can bang them out quicker. A single head sample or name machine ends up being just that, a 4-6 head can be either. You want to be flexible, make sure your machines are as well. I used to think like you, the single head eventually in my shop was a door stop. We gave it away as we never used it after we got rid of that mind set like its hurting a 4-6 head to run a sample or a name drop on. It's not hurting it but a single head wont help your production when you need to run faster, if you start looking at math of cost from a 1 to 2 or 2 to 4 or 4 to 6 you start thinking about the smaller steps in money to get to more heads which will make you money faster.
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All of this is good information from actual professionals. I really love this. Thank you very much. I am crunch numbers and see what i do.
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How about finding a solid contract embroiderer? Offer embroidery to your clients and see how it goes. Once you get a feel for the actual sales that come through for stitching you can look at bringing it in house again. It's easy to perceive demand for something and invest in producing it without quantifying the work you'll actually get, I'm not second guessing your assessment but don't fall into that trap!
Anyways, contracting would provide you with a more gentle learning curve and much less risk, hassle and heartache. Most good contractors do "good" work, nothing fantastic, nothing sloppy so it would also help you test and set a quality standard for stitching with your customers.
There are some services a textile print shop will never want to do in house but may need to offer and there our others that should absolutely be brought in house, depends on the shop and their market/clientele.
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Thank you ZooCity I just started doing this...but they ask (embroidering shops) to many questions are you a printer. How do you know the school? do you work there? that is why i started looking for one myself. i really appreciate everyones input.
thank you
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Thank you ZooCity I just started doing this...but they ask (embroidering shops) to many questions are you a printer. How do you know the school? do you work there? that is why i started looking for one myself. i really appreciate everyones input.
thank you
I would say "Why do you want to know? Do you want to take my money or not?"
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Being a screen print shop that just bought their first 4 head machine I can whole hardheartedly agree with GD. Any less would have been a total waste.
For retail work a 4 head can make you good money and pay for it's self quite easily. If you plan on doing contract work you'll find that 4 heads for contract work is like having a 1 head for retail work. Pretty hard to make good money
We have taken on some contract work, mostly from good long term customers, to speed up the learning curve. Our retail work is starting to take off and as it grows we will start moving away from the low margin jobs. At least until we get to 10/12 heads
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Thank you ZooCity I just started doing this...but they ask (embroidering shops) to many questions are you a printer. How do you know the school? do you work there? that is why i started looking for one myself. i really appreciate everyones input.
thank you
That's weird...
I've never had a single person I've outsourced a job to ask any questions related to the client. They quote, we discuss details, they do the work and get paid. Most people appreciate not having to deal with the end user.
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It sounds to me, that these are not true "trade" or "contract" decorators, but merely other shops who don't fully grasp the etiquette of dealing with the trade. He may need to look beyond local, albeit the addition of time and/or shipping.
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Yikes. If your "contractor" is interested in your clients they aren't contractors. Agree with Frog, stay away from them and find a professional outfit to work with.
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To be clear, with "contractors", questions about your own involvement in the trade are totally legitimate, but, as noted, not about your clients (with the exception of possible copyright infringements)
Being in SoCal, I bet that right there in the San Fernando Valley, (or at least L.A.) there's a few proper embroidery contractors.
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10/4 Frog, i copy that.
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Being a screen print shop that just bought their first 4 head machine I can whole hardheartedly agree with GD. Any less would have been a total waste.
For retail work a 4 head can make you good money and pay for it's self quite easily. If you plan on doing contract work you'll find that 4 heads for contract work is like having a 1 head for retail work. Pretty hard to make good money
We have taken on some contract work, mostly from good long term customers, to speed up the learning curve. Our retail work is starting to take off and as it grows we will start moving away from the low margin jobs. At least until we get to 10/12 heads
What did you go with (brand) for embroidery machine?