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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: kingscreen on October 13, 2015, 03:31:20 PM
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This is for all the gas dryer owners out there. With another automatic on the horizon for us, we will be looking to upgrade our two electric dryers to a single gas.
My question is, how much did your electric bill drop when you switched from electric? What is your average monthly gas bill? Any advice or tips when shopping gas dryers?
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It's been so long I can't recall, but it was considerable and well worth the effort, not to mention that convection gives you more options, especially with the WB and discharge...
Steve
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Scott... why not get some math going on and see.
If you have an amp clamp meter you can see exactly what the draw is (they are cheap at harbor freight) or you can estimate off the amp listing on the panel of the dryer. Then assuming you have some sort of way to know the duty cycle (does it have a mercury switch that you hear or a light that comes on when the panel is on or the PID... or maybe just call the manufacture and see if they know... OR, if you have that clamp meter you could see it go up and down as it comes on and off). You time that duty cycle... count how long it goes on for and how long it goes off for while it's up to temp. You can time how long it takes to get up to temp (it's 100% while that is going on). With those times you can see how many amps it draws in an hour.
From all of that you can see exactly how much your dryer cost you a month given you know how often you turn your dryer on and how long it runs for on an average day/week/month. These things my fluctuate a bit if you have a shop that goes through big temp swings through the year. But technically you can figure that out as well.
Take a look at your electric bill, you should be able to see how much they charge per KW... for us their is also a fuel surcharge so I just take my bill and divide it by the KW used. For us it's like 8 cents a KW, pretty cheap... so our dryer doesn't cost us all that much and gas is almost the same price. This doesn't negate my desire for gas for all the other benefits it brings, but in our current situation we aren't going to be getting one soon any how.
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This is actually an interesting question. Electric is one of our biggest bills every month. We are paying 0.19€/kw, which is a lot (!). I hear people saving 2/3 when they switch to gas. For us, that would be a 400€ saving every month (almost 5000€/year). It would make a big difference.
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This is for all the gas dryer owners out there. With another automatic on the horizon for us, we will be looking to upgrade our two electric dryers to a single gas.
My question is, how much did your electric bill drop when you switched from electric? What is your average monthly gas bill? Any advice or tips when shopping gas dryers?
Depending on the size of the dryer our typical cost is roughly 1.25 per hr operating cost in most states where the same size electric dryer is usually 3-3.50 per hr. most gas bills for our gas dryers is $300-$350.00 per month. average consumption is about 160,000 btu per hr.
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Our electricity bill went from averaging $1200/month to about $600, sometimes in the hot summer it gets up to $800 now but it's rare. So we saved $600 on average for those of you who are mathematically challenged :).
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our gas bill for last three months has been $105/month. We are running a 60" dryer with an 8' heat section (Interchange MD-8). Electric bill should be at a minimum double that and $300-$400 is still reasonable cost.
pierre
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I can speak only for my part of the world but we pay around $375/month on gas. If we would have an electric dryer that would be more then double for electricity.
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Our payment on our 60", 16' chamber Sprint HO + gas bill is less than what it cost to run our 48" belt 10' chamber, all electric, American TexAir and our curing capacity with the Sprint is far beyond the electric. The American did have abundant convection air, it wasn't just IR panels doing the work but also used electric elements to do what a gas dryer does with a burner.
I was hesitant to believe it but a gas dryer really is that one thing that shops of a certain size "can't afford not to buy" as they say.
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Major savings going from electric to gas. Not sure what size you are looking for but we are selling our heatwave gas dryer
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I've calculated some rough numbers...using the metric systems its a f*ckload, and in standard it's a sh*t-ton.
Seriously it's worth it. It's also a better cure. Less scorched garments and rejects. I haven't taken out a scorch in 6 years, except for that poly shirt that was in there for 4 hours.
I would never go back to electric. If I had to I'd go propane with a big tank before going back..it's not even an option for me. Our bill is down anywhere from $4-600 a month, our gas bill is around $2-350 a month, but we also never had gas hooked up, so I don't know how much it would have changed.
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Thanks everyone for the responses. I know it'll be cheaper and better in the long run. I'm just trying to build up the courage to write the check.
@screenprintguy, I'm definitely looking for something like Pierre mentioned. 60" belt, 8'+ heat, and likely an extended infeed. I think that would be perfect for my set up.
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go longer chamber if you can, and if you have any plans to be doing waterbase and discharge work.
due to size restrictions, we went with a 10' chamber here... I would love for it to be 14'-16'... as the dryer becomes a major bottleneck on the wb jobs due to retention time in the chamber.
the drone sections don't add a ton of cost...
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Last month $165.08 was our gas bill bill. We run our Boomerang Gas dryer 8-12hrs a day 5 days a week at least. We also use gas for heat (not last month of course), and we also have a gas hot water heater. So thats not all from the Boomerang.
Winter months look more like:$404.14 as a high side.
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I am about to buy a gas dryer, belt width 72", oven length 9ft oven and inlet and outlet of 4.50ft.
We print mainly plastisol and are going to run 2 carousels through the oven.
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maxie, if possible go longer on the chamber...we have a 12' chamber and i wish it was longer. I will eventually add to it.
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This is for all the gas dryer owners out there. With another automatic on the horizon for us, we will be looking to upgrade our two electric dryers to a single gas.
My question is, how much did your electric bill drop when you switched from electric? What is your average monthly gas bill? Any advice or tips when shopping gas dryers?
Depending on the size of the dryer our typical cost is roughly 1.25 per hr operating cost in most states where the same size electric dryer is usually 3-3.50 per hr. most gas bills for our gas dryers is $300-$350.00 per month. average consumption is about 160,000 btu per hr.
How do the newer gas dryers compare in efficiency to older gas dryers? (maybe 10-20 years older)
I occasionally see some pretty cheap ones out there on the used market, but wonder if they are going to burn way more in gas than it's worth...
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most of the time it probably won't be worth it. I think M&R changed the burners in the late 90's or early 2000's to a much more efficient style. For the price of a dryer it's almost worth buying new or slightly used.
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I paid $900 for my late 80's precision vortex 60" dryer. It's going to take a lot of less-efficient gas use to make up the difference of a new dryer. Can the older dryer's burner assembly be updated to a more efficient design if/when they fail?
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I paid $900 for my late 80's precision vortex 60" dryer. It's going to take a lot of less-efficient gas use to make up the difference of a new dryer. Can the older dryer's burner assembly be updated to a more efficient design if/when they fail?
Stay with what was designed for this dryer. There are a lot more changes than just the burner
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I paid $900 for my late 80's precision vortex 60" dryer. It's going to take a lot of less-efficient gas use to make up the difference of a new dryer. Can the older dryer's burner assembly be updated to a more efficient design if/when they fail?
That's a good point. We paid peanuts for the old electric we had and I did the math that if we kept it longer than 2 years it would no longer be a good deal to operate. Anyone else could do the same with an older, less efficient gas model. It's easy to scrape together a couple thou for the dryer and parts and if you have the spare time to play dryer tech you'll save a 30-50k up front purchase. Not for everybody though.
Winston would be the man to talk to about upgrading older dryers.
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I paid $900 for my late 80's precision vortex 60" dryer. It's going to take a lot of less-efficient gas use to make up the difference of a new dryer. Can the older dryer's burner assembly be updated to a more efficient design if/when they fail?
Stay with what was designed for this dryer. There are a lot more changes than just the burner
Makes sense that there would be other changes
Yeah Winston has helped me multiple times completely free and I am forever grateful for that. He really is a great asset to this industry.
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Anyone have any experience with running a gas dryer off of a tank? I'm upgrading my radicure to a fourth panel and phase 3 to get a little more production out of it, but I'm wondering about my next purchase being a longer gas dryer. My shop is outside the city limits so I can't hook up to natural gas lines.
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I have a old National Gas Dryer (48 X 19) it runs all day every day M-F. My Bill last month was $168.
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Anyone have any experience with running a gas dryer off of a tank? I'm upgrading my radicure to a fourth panel and phase 3 to get a little more production out of it, but I'm wondering about my next purchase being a longer gas dryer. My shop is outside the city limits so I can't hook up to natural gas lines.
You will have no problem! Most burners on all screen printing dryers can be used with either Natural or Propane.
You have more BTU's per gallon in Propane Than Natural. Your Per Gallon Usage will Be Less than Natural, However
Natural is cheaper per gallon than Propane most of the time. Pressure on Propane (WC Inches) will be Lower than
Natural, and can usually be adjusted in the field, with no problems!
winston
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72" sprint on 10 hours a day for 4 days (usually) is $300 a month in gas. Handles over 1600pcs an hour. Couldn't tell you electric savings as we added another press when we got it the dryer.
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maxie, if possible go longer on the chamber...we have a 12' chamber and i wish it was longer. I will eventually add to it.
Good advice on going for the longer chamber length to speed up production on those inks that require a longer retention time. The attached examples you the theoretical maximum production speed for a gas dryer with an 8' long chamber and a belt width that allows two garments across the belt at retention times of 30, 60, and 90 seconds.
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The full answer:
Math is the easiest way to answer, (for many of you this is inconsequential due to the area you live in)
1. Natural gas/electricity is cheapest it's been in 10 years)
2. The poster who used Euros is a different situation entirely (though still cheapest in years but not similar to USA)
3. If you gather these numbers I will post. A spread sheet you all can use to discover the real answer:
Electricity: cost per kWh
Electricity: demand charge
Gas: cost per therm (100,000 Btu)
Gas: delivery charge
Machinery:
Electric dryer
How many amps?
Voltage?
Gas dryer:
How many BTU's for the burner?
Electric (the part many people miss)
How many Amps (blower,extraction motor?)
Voltage?
Areas of the country where this matters:
1. Those on LP Gas
1a. Hawaii
2. South East
3. Northeast
4. California
The rest of the country energy is to inexpensive to make a large difference.
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The rest of the country energy is to inexpensive to make a large difference.
Steve are you positing that the "cost per cure" for electricity and gas is equal? Didn't quite follow this....