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General => Manufacturer's section => M&R => Topic started by: jvieira on August 08, 2015, 03:11:28 PM
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We run a Diamondback R-Series (8/6) and I was browsing the web and looking for literature with information about it so we can take better advantage of its features.
Already found some valuable information about revolver mode (even though will still need to figure out how to set it up) but one I was really interested to know is SPEED!
I feel we could push it SO much faster than we do right now. We're doing 15/20dz shirts an hour which is just not enough and I want to give my printer something to aim for in terms of speed. We're averaging 20dz on 1color jobs and 15/18 on any other type of job. One single operator running it.
Anyone with information regarding speed/averages?
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Tell us your average mesh/stroke/print parameters please.
Also, how many Dozens per hour will it run with no print heads turned on at a 4 dwell?
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When we had our dback machine one operator we would print around 35 doz/hr..... If we were running a basic 1 color type job with a single stroke that would be around 40-45 doz/hr. I think for a single operator 35 doz/hr is a decent average to shoot for.
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When we had our dback machine one operator we would print around 35 doz/hr..... If we were running a basic 1 color type job with a single stroke that would be around 40-45 doz/hr. I think for a single operator 35 doz/hr is a decent average to shoot for.
ditto
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let the improvement begin! thank you
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We run a Diamondback R-Series (8/6) and I was browsing the web and looking for literature with information about it so we can take better advantage of its features.
Already found some valuable information about revolver mode (even though will still need to figure out how to set it up) but one I was really interested to know is SPEED!
I feel we could push it SO much faster than we do right now. We're doing 15/20dz shirts an hour which is just not enough and I want to give my printer something to aim for in terms of speed. We're averaging 20dz on 1color jobs and 15/18 on any other type of job. One single operator running it.
Anyone with information regarding speed/averages?
One easy way to improve your production numbers when the press is being run with a single operator, is to put your flash cure unit in one of the last heads and flash the garment before it reaches the unload station. Under normal conditions the press operator has to use a lot of care when taking a "wet" shirt off the unload station, before laying it out flat on the dryer belt, which takes "TIME!"
Change up the scenario to have the operator working with a garment that's been tacked off under the flash, and they can load (throw) the shirt onto the dryer from 3' away and get focused on loading the next shirt to print. if your operator can't shorten their cycle time by 1 to 1.5 seconds per garment, at an improved quality level I'll bare my bum in Bourke Street! (This reference will make sense to any Aussies on TSB)
Good luck and keep us updated on your improved production numbers.
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We run a Diamondback R-Series (8/6) and I was browsing the web and looking for literature with information about it so we can take better advantage of its features.
Already found some valuable information about revolver mode (even though will still need to figure out how to set it up) but one I was really interested to know is SPEED!
I feel we could push it SO much faster than we do right now. We're doing 15/20dz shirts an hour which is just not enough and I want to give my printer something to aim for in terms of speed. We're averaging 20dz on 1color jobs and 15/18 on any other type of job. One single operator running it.
Anyone with information regarding speed/averages?
One easy way to improve your production numbers when the press is being run with a single operator, is to put your flash cure unit in one of the last heads and flash the garment before it reaches the unload station. Under normal conditions the press operator has to use a lot of care when taking a "wet" shirt off the unload station, before laying it out flat on the dryer belt, which takes "TIME!"
Change up the scenario to have the operator working with a garment that's been tacked off under the flash, and they can load (throw) the shirt onto the dryer from 3' away and get focused on loading the next shirt to print. if your operator can't shorten their cycle time by 1 to 1.5 seconds per garment, at an improved quality level I'll bare my bum in Bourke Street! (This reference will make sense to any Aussies on TSB)
Good luck and keep us updated on your improved production numbers.
Are you from Melbourne?
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[/quote]
Are you from Melbourne?
Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk
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You are right on the money! I was born and raised in Frankston, a bayside suburb of Melbourne that is about 25 miles / 40 KM's from the CBD. I was wondering if anyone would pick up on the Bourke Street reference. How did you make the connection with Melbourne?
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Born and grew up in Sydney Now base in Indonesia.
I took a guess on Bourke Street because we don't have a famous street called Bourke Street in Sydney. ????
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Born and grew up in Sydney Now base in Indonesia.
I took a guess on Bourke Street because we don't have a famous street called Bourke Street in Sydney. ????
Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk
Were you in the business when you were in Sydney, and if so what companies were you involved with?
I was working for TAS from 1986 thru 1995 and spent a lot of time up in Sydney in the day
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I was a Wind Consultant Engineering. My specialty was Vibration analysis.
I moved to Indonesia because of my wife to run a factory.
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One easy way to improve your production numbers when the press is being run with a single operator, is to put your flash cure unit in one of the last heads and flash the garment before it reaches the unload station. Under normal conditions the press operator has to use a lot of care when taking a "wet" shirt off the unload station, before laying it out flat on the dryer belt, which takes "TIME!"
Interesting idea, will make sure to test that today as I have a couple hundred shirts to print. And yes, when I'm on the press that's one of the things taking the most time, especially on faster jobs.
I know we can improve on stroke speed too, will make sure to make a push for that
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So, I was running the press this morning as fast as I could and got it to 20dz/hour. This was one color, two strokes. I then tried to go faster and set it up to one stroke only which increased speed to 34dz/hour.
It is definitely faster and in this job there was no difference in printing quality so I will definitely try that again.
QUESTION: Will giving it one stroke only get me in trouble with washing? I'm scared there might not be enough ink and being black (no underbase), fibers might pop out easier on wash.
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We can not answer the question about wash fastness until we know what mesh count/ink type/squeegee blade/fabric type/etc you are using :)
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We can not answer the question about wash fastness until we know what mesh count/ink type/squeegee blade/fabric type/etc you are using :)
I'm afraid i don't have all those informations, I just printed what my press operator prepared on friday.
Black plastisol ink on 100% cotton t-shirts. The blade is blue, I believe it is 70A. No idea on mesh count but it was just text, no detail
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So, I was running the press this morning as fast as I could and got it to 20dz/hour. This was one color, two strokes. I then tried to go faster and set it up to one stroke only which increased speed to 34dz/hour.
It is definitely faster and in this job there was no difference in printing quality so I will definitely try that again.
QUESTION: Will giving it one stroke only get me in trouble with washing? I'm scared there might not be enough ink and being black (no underbase), fibers might pop out easier on wash.
There's a bunch of different options that you could follow in this example, and choosing the best option might come down to the number of garments that you are printing:
Option (1) Maintain the status quo and double stroke each shirt to ensure good opacity, and print durability.
Pro's of this option are a great looking print that will wear well, and the Con is a slow production speed.
Option (2) Cut back to a single stroke, after making sure to use the most suitable mesh count and press setup for best print results.
Pro's of this option are increased productivity, and the Con is concerns with print durability due to reduced ink coverage, and potential defects in the image from lint and other contaminants blocking the screen.
The thing about a one color print is that usually the customer is looking for the printed image to be bright, bold, and durable. For this reason I don't think that I'd recommend Option (2). Here's where the question on the quantity of shirts comes into play. If you had less than 48 garments to print I'd recommend that you suck up the slower production speed and double stroke each print to ensure best quality.
If you have a greater number of garments to print I'd recommend doubling up the screens, and dropping back to single stroke on both. Hope this makes some sense and that it helps out some.
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I rather work slower and keep my customers happy than the opposite. I only tried one stroke on this job because I was printing t-shirts for a festival (for staff to wear) so they probably won't be washed at all. Also only tried on a few shirts, not the whole order.
I might start doing two screens for speed purpose but we'll also lose valuable time with tests and alignment. I believe that will work for 250+ shirts, never under that quantity.
Will probably focus on shirt loading speed for now and will take it from there
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I rather work slower and keep my customers happy than the opposite. I only tried one stroke on this job because I was printing t-shirts for a festival (for staff to wear) so they probably won't be washed at all. Also only tried on a few shirts, not the whole order.
I might start doing two screens for speed purpose but we'll also lose valuable time with tests and alignment. I believe that will work for 250+ shirts, never under that quantity.
Will probably focus on shirt loading speed for now and will take it from there
I agree with the approach of focusing on quality over quantity as the best strategy to build your business. I really hope that you try the two screens / same image to speed up production while maintaining quality on some of your longer run projects. With that said, I'm a little surprised that you would make 250 garments the minimum quantity to utilize this approach. There shouldn't be much time loss in doubling up a second screen of the same design on press. If there is, then I'd say that you've just identified another opportunity to improve your set-up process, and increase your daily production capacity.
Based on your concerns that you will; "lose valuable time with tests and alignment" I'm going to assume that you're not using the M&R Tri-Loc or some other screen pre-registration system on your Diamondback press. I don't know about your business and the number of different press set-ups that you do each day, but you don't need to be doing many to justify the cost of a screen pre-registration system. Anything that reduces set-up time, and get's you into production faster is a guaranteed money maker, especially if you have the work to feed your press. If it's not the right time to make this investment then you can always go "old school" and use a modest choke or trap on the 1st and 2nd screen to make setting up easier.
Good luck, best wishes for success, and it sounds like you are on the right path.
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You are probably right. I will talk this over with my printer on monday and we'll make a test run on the next job and see how we can improve. It might be a good solution for us as part of a wider approach to the speed issue.
We do have a tri-loc system and it works great so we would probably not take long to set it up, your right. I don't spend my days on the press (i focus on sales) so I don't really know much. I can set up small jobs and that's about it for now ;)
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I don't spend my days on the press (i focus on sales) so I don't really know much.
I can set up small jobs and that's about it for now ;)
Well that still places you ahead of me!
Take care and good luck in growing your business
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The first place to address for higher production numbers is your flash dwell times. Your stroke speeds will not be much better if your running low temps and high times on your flash. Oh and if you're flashing right before it goes in the dryer, remember to also increase your belt speed. Stroke speed addresses matt down and increase share- but this depends on the ink and the mesh-threads flatness angle. So if you're doing production as usual and ink and mesh calibration is the same, then look to the flash for your gains.
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also, the amount of pressure you use during your flood stroke will vary the amount of ink you're laying down too... if you flood harder, you are pushing more ink into the openings in the screen, so you'll end up with more ink on the shirt.
It took us a real long time to realize how much difference a harder flood can make.
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Stroke speed addresses matt down and increase share- but this depends on the ink and the mesh-threads flatness angle.
Could you please elaborate on this? English is not my first language and I couldn't figure out what "matt down and increase share" means.
Flash is probably not an issue here. We actually had to lower the temperature ever so slightly as it was scorching a few t-shirts here and there, so we know it's at a high enough temperature.
also, the amount of pressure you use during your flood stroke will vary the amount of ink you're laying down too... if you flood harder, you are pushing more ink into the openings in the screen, so you'll end up with more ink on the shirt.
I have noticed this. We do not flood hard enough. When I watch videos I see a flat surface covered in ink. Ours is not, there's a lot of ink left behind and not enough on the print area
One stroke + heavier pressure on flood might do the trick
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Stroke speed addresses matt down and increase share- but this depends on the ink and the mesh-threads flatness angle.
Could you please elaborate on this? English is not my first language and I couldn't figure out what "matt down and increase share" means.
He meant to say Shear. Not share.
Matt down is where you're pushing down the fibers into the ink so they don't stand up straight.
Shear means "shearing" the ink off the screen VS. pushing the ink through the screen.
squeegee speed helps with both these...
you want to print as fast as you can, while still clearing the screen.
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"But resist we much"
http://youtu.be/ggHWRpsMEmk (http://youtu.be/ggHWRpsMEmk)
Hmm.. Let's see if I can explain this- Matt-down in this trade means the ink fully covers the shirt fibers so that they don't pop out the ink. Matt-down logically is most effective by the amount of ink that covers any given image area.
Now matt-down is actually related to opacity- the thinner the overall coverage, the less opaque your coverage.
Now just narrow the focus on this phenom and increase blade speed- The ink has a set of task to accomplish during it's life cycle, from sitting in the bucket staying fresh to cure out the dryer. At one point in the cycle the ink goes past room temperature and it changes from sitting in the bucket (jus chill'n) to the carrier (platicizer) moving around, circulating the resign like hungry piranhas-the ink is in it's most liquid state(it's relative viscosity) the exact temperature depends on the ink and it's manufacturing. OK now that the ink is liquid putting a downward force (the arching of the blade when pressure is applied) plus speed- "THIS IS SHARE" causes the ink to thin (the piranhas stop bunching up and scatter) and pressure builds through momentum which causes the ink to move towards and fill the mesh opening. But because the mesh threads are circles and not squares, the pressure on the ink drops (pressure drop) as the ink flows into the mesh opening because dead center of the mesh opening tunnel is narrower than it's entrance on the squeegee side and exit on the shirt side. Therefore because of this pressure drop the ink stops thining and does not apply a flat and even coverage on the shirt fibers (more like a hill) so smoothness and opacity is not realized. (The ink drip drip drips onto the substrate in a pile thinner at the perimeter and thicker in the center. Think of a dart board, the rings are contour lines of an overhead view of an ink deposit- the bulls eye has the most ink deposit) So thinner ink through the mesh opening (but the ink must be able to recover and hold the shape) will decrease the value of pressure drop, (decrease the dartboard contour rings from 6 to 2) create a smoother more opaque print. Better matt-down.
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We got a Diamondback S which I operate on my own. On a good day I can run it at 34 doz/hr but on average it`s more like 29doz/hr.
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Actually today I did 37 dz/hr. Job was done within 90 minutes with a few stops for adding new ink to the screens. Would not want to load and unload at that speed for the whole day though.
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Did a 3 color job (2 flashes) on whites at 20dz/h on my own last evening. Simply cannot see how to physically go any faster.
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Let me say it this way, to have the right music on while printing is very important.
When you say two flashes yo uare on revolver mode,right?
Or do you actually have the luxury of owning 2 flash units?
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We are full of luxuries in this company. 2 quartz flashes, 10/12 hour days (for me and my production manager), worn out exposure unit ;)
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One stroke + heavier pressure on flood might do the trick
So I tried this.
We were doing a job using gold and my press operator started with print (underbase)+flash+revolver+print (underbase)+flash+print (gold) (all double stroke except gold*) as usual (he tells me gold needs a good white coverage to pop unlike other inks). I then saw and thought it was a good time to make some tests.
I added pressure on the flood (I now get perfect ink coverage), added a lot of speed to the squeegee and tried to print+flash (and avoid revolver mode) but nothing happened. No changes at all.
We were using a hard squeegee too so we should have gotten some good coverage out of it.
*we only did one gold pass so it could retain some detail
white (x1 pass): http://cl.ly/image/39363B0b0X2d (http://cl.ly/image/39363B0b0X2d)
gold (x1 pass after 2 white passes): http://cl.ly/image/030I3c0i0b3r (http://cl.ly/image/030I3c0i0b3r)
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One stroke + heavier pressure on flood might do the trick
So I tried this.
We were doing a job using gold and my press operator started with print (underbase)+flash+revolver+print (underbase)+flash+print (gold) (all double stroke except gold*) as usual (he tells me gold needs a good white coverage to pop unlike other inks). I then saw and thought it was a good time to make some tests.
I added pressure on the flood (I now get perfect ink coverage), added a lot of speed to the squeegee and tried to print+flash (and avoid revolver mode) but nothing happened. No changes at all.
We were using a hard squeegee too so we should have gotten some good coverage out of it.
*we only did one gold pass so it could retain some detail
white (x1 pass): [url]http://cl.ly/image/39363B0b0X2d[/url] ([url]http://cl.ly/image/39363B0b0X2d[/url])
gold (x1 pass after 2 white passes): [url]http://cl.ly/image/030I3c0i0b3r[/url] ([url]http://cl.ly/image/030I3c0i0b3r[/url])
I normally don`t bother with a white underbase under metallic gold. We just make twice the same screen one gold before the flash and one after the flash. A roller squeegee right after the flash for good measure then the second gold screen. We print our metallics through 120-S or 150-S mesh. What sort of metallic inks do you use?
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That is very interesting! We had done white+flash+gold but the outcome wasn't great as the gold was more yellowish, so we decided to give it a try with a whiter white. Will make sure to try gold+flash+gold and see what happens.
We use plastisol gold (printop).
this one I believe (http://www.printop.com/printoppo/cont/verseritex.php?t=on&codht=fOtT53PipP (http://www.printop.com/printoppo/cont/verseritex.php?t=on&codht=fOtT53PipP))
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You can get Printop in Portugal, that`s where you are located, right?
Thought they were mainly for the South American market.
The Union shimmer gold is real nice, for silver we like Wilflex Epic liquid silver.
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What time is it in Japan? I wasn't expecting any replies until later (04am in the US, 9am in Portugal).
Yes, we can get printop here, it's the only inks we use.
I tried what you suggested and liked the result. It's a lot different from what we got. What sort of gold do you usually put out? left or right?
With underbase on the left, without underbase on the right. Probably neally need a roller to make it look good though.
http://cl.ly/image/2A0D3a1n302s (http://cl.ly/image/2A0D3a1n302s)
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Oh we are on the left hand side for sure.
Time to go home soon, almost 6pm here.
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After a lot of testing and tweaking, we've now hit a new all time record or 34dz/h with 2 operators early in the week.
We're still going 25dz/h with one op at best.
We're doing things a bit different from most, though.
If working with 2 people on the machine
Person 1 - removes shirt and inserts new one
Person 2 - aligns new shirt
We just can't get the new shirt right at first, always needs a bit of tweaking and that costs us a lot of time. Still, if we can keep it at 30dz/h, it works for now until we manage to get it a bit faster.
This is p+f+p (two strokes with white ink)
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wow, that's really low and would have NOT happy with our crew... in our shop:
the loader must be able to load the shirt and straighten it.
the puller should just be pulling.
even with an in-experienced puller (we hire a lot of 'friends'/unemployed/underemployed people to help pull), you should be hitting 450-500/hr almost right out of the gate. 600/hr after a few hours of practice.
Is your diamondback an air-index or servo index? I suppose that could affect your numbers due to how an air-index press indexs (slow acceleration vs fast on the servo).
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Sounds like you're tuning it in!
That second person aligning new shirt is certainly not needed
when one learns to load at speed. They should be dong something else.
Or normally one loading, one unloading. If press slow on white, they can catch.
Keep up the good work!
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It's a process. In the past month we've improved and got speed up by 50%. I want to make it higher and I know we can easily reach 40dz/h printing black ink (or no underbase).
Will continue to push it until the end of the year and set an objective of 40dz/h on average. That would be a 100% improvement from where we were earlier this month.
Our Diamondback is air-index and the top speed is 54dz/h, it won't go any faster.
We have a 2000 shirt production to be done next week, got it set up for 4 days (includes color variations and bagging) but will try and do it all in 2. Should be easily doable and I will push my op to reach the highest possible number.
Loading at speed is the hardest part for me. We did 34 when I was the loader and I'm a short guy (the pallets are too high for me to feel comfortable at faster speeds). Should be easier and faster for someone taller. Will also try and do it like everyone else does (one op for unloading, another for loading). Will see how it goes