TSB
General => Manufacturer's section => Action Engineering => Topic started by: Action1 on June 20, 2015, 12:51:26 PM
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Ladies, gentlemen, friends of TSB - Continuing in our mission to explore strange new worlds - We are proud to present - An Off-Press Pallet Paper Changing System. Yours are the first eyes to ever see it. As always we sincerely appreciate any feedback.
Here's why you want this - pallet paper is now a standard material used by the top printing companies in the world. The benefits are numerous and easily cost justifiable. However - it takes time to put the material on and off of the pallets. If it's left on too long - many things happen. The worst is that the paper will literally fuse to the rubber. At that point - What a nightmare it is to get it off.
But – it’s most typical that the paper removal and replacement is done while the pallets are on the press. We have to have the pallet locked down to do it. Therefore, changing the pallet paper means the press isn’t – pressing. This is the single most given reason for not changing the paper as often as it should be done.
Also, putting the paper on the pallet is not the most enjoyable task. We hold the paper roll in our hands and pull it forward while it rotates on our fingers. It’s not pleasant . For these reasons – pallet paper changing is often neglected.
The PCS, Paper Changing System will allow you to easily change the paper on your pallets – Off Press. The system is designed to mount onto your existing table. Drill two holes in the table spaced at 14” apart. No additional hardware or tools are required to mount The PCS on your table. Self locking bolts and hand comfortable knobs are included for the purpose of easily mounting The PCS.
As shown in the pictures below, the paper is mounted behind the pallet. The paper mount allows 18” and 24” rolls to be quickly changed as needed. Now we can easily pull the paper forward to the front of the pallet and place. Next, we smooth with our hands and then cut the paper behind the pallet. It’s very quick, accurate, and super ergo-friendly.
To summarize why you want this:
• It eliminates press down time – it’s easily cost justified. How much is your press downtime worth compared to the cost of this system. This product would be easily cost justified in under 6 months for most shops.
• It makes changing the paper very easy.
• It reduces the likelihood of paper to rubber fusion.
The PCS – Introductory Price of $595.00
Note – The PCS is presently available for use with all Workhorse & M&R® Style Pallets. Additional effort to develop this system for other machinery will be determined by requests.
Action Engineering - 770-717-1000
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Going to be honest, making this would cost about 10 bucks with some scrap wood, a thick dowel, and a pair of quick clamps. Precision really plays no roll in this process as long as things aren't wiggling around. In fact I frequently tape off press with just the pallet sitting on a cart without issue. Could of course be a market for it, but not sure who...
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Going to be honest, making this would cost about 10 bucks with some scrap wood, a thick dowel, and a pair of quick clamps. Precision really plays no roll in this prices as long as thinks aren't wiggling around. In fact I frequently tape off press with just the pallet sitting on a cart without issue. Could of course be a market for it, but not sure who...
Thank you for your feedback. I agree that an alternative solution could be fashioned to work for less money.
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I would actually prefer to have something like this ON-press. Taking the pallets off the press just to mount on a table top paper changing station seems like a lot of unnecessary labor. I'd rather just load a pallet tape roll onto a press mounted dispenser to quickly change the paper on press.
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I would actually prefer to have something like this ON-press. Taking the pallets off the press just to mount on a table top paper changing station seems like a lot of unnecessary labor. I'd rather just load a pallet tape roll onto a press mounted dispenser to quickly change the paper on press.
Thank you for your feedback. There would be too many mounting configurations for us to have to deal with. The number of different presses would be prohibitive. I did do some work in the direction of a roll up system that had the paper on a stand with wheels. However, this approach felt like it was the wrong direction.
Kingscreen- How often do you change paper?
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I would actually prefer to have something like this ON-press. Taking the pallets off the press just to mount on a table top paper changing station seems like a lot of unnecessary labor. I'd rather just load a pallet tape roll onto a press mounted dispenser to quickly change the paper on press.
I agree with kingscreen, we would prefer on press. If you need the paper changed and your not removing the pallets, then you would be wasting a lot of time taking them off, changing paper and then put them back on.
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Clamp the rollers to the -arm coming from press, and you won't need wheels, a shaft, and lots more metal.
Pulling paper towards you.
Make it able to take off quickly from arm to arm.
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Sorry, I feel there's a limited market for this. Make something that takes it off as quick as it goes on and now you've got something.
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we have been using an on press paper changer for years...it is called a Teflon sheet borrowed from my heat press.
cover about 80 % of the pallet with the Teflon sheet, start some pallet tape off the roll and stick it to the 20 % of uncovered pallet.
pull enough tape off the roll to cover the balance of the pallet and cut .
slide the Teflon sheet out from under the tape and stick down with a wall paper brush, vinyl squeegee or any straight edge.
Repeate the Teflon sheet pull about 2 inches at a time and you are done in about one minute.
Like Farmboy said come up with a good fast way to get the tape off then you got something.
mooseman
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I find it much easier to get the old tape off if I flash it and remove the tape white it's hot.
This means that we'd have to remove the pallets jest to apply new tape.
Possible a roller that clipped on the sides of the pallet would be a better idea.
Could have a adjustable width so it Could work on all pallets.
We usually have two people changing the tape, with a roller one person could do it.
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I love that every time action introduces a new product someone has to post that they could make their own for less money.
How would you feel if you were offering screen printing services and some one said they could buy some crap from ryonet and print the shirts themselves for less money. It's true, but it's pretty lame.
I could build a car for less than I pay Honda but that's not the point.
So I think we need to lay off action. They make some great crap and take care of their customers.
I for one don't have the time or energy to build this stuff. So I'm glad the team at action is putting the thought and engineering to make products to make my business successful.
Erik deserves a million kisses from me for making winged floodbars alone!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I love that every time action introduces a new product someone has to post that they could make their own for less money.
How would you feel if you were offering screen printing services and some one said they could buy some crap from ryonet and print the shirts themselves for less money. It's true, but it's pretty lame.
I could build a car for less than I pay Honda but that's not the point.
So I think we need to lay off action. They make some great crap and take care of their customers.
I for one don't have the time or energy to build this stuff. So I'm glad the team at action is putting the thought and engineering to make products to make my business successful.
Erik deserves a million kisses from me for making winged floodbars alone!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Actually, I think that Erik expects just this type of feedback from the gang here and it helps to sharpen his game.
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I love that every time action introduces a new product someone has to post that they could make their own for less money.
How would you feel if you were offering screen printing services and some one said they could buy some crap from ryonet and print the shirts themselves for less money. It's true, but it's pretty lame.
I could build a car for less than I pay Honda but that's not the point.
So I think we need to lay off action. They make some great crap and take care of their customers.
I for one don't have the time or energy to build this stuff. So I'm glad the team at action is putting the thought and engineering to make products to make my business successful.
Erik deserves a million kisses from me for making winged floodbars alone!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's part of the review. He knows people are always going to say they can make it cheaper.
Look at his roller. Everyone said they could make it cheaper and I bet he has sold tons of them.
If his skin was that thin he would not make these kind of new product posts.
His products are out there but negative reviews help him build a better product.
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There gets to a point where buying something premade for whatever the price is, is less costly than your time.
I've bought a LOT of stuff recently that I might have built/fixed/bought used/etc a few years back that now I just don't have the time to deal with, and would rather let someone else do the work.
the watercutting/cnc/plasma cutting and powder coating isn't something most of us can easily do at home or have done, and even if we could, we'd have to draw the 3d cad files to send off to someone who does that work. (definitely not cheap for single run pieces)
*all this being said...
I like to use the roll of pallet tape as my smoother... stick an inch or so of tape on the rear of the platen, pull towards me, stick it down, cut off, push the roll of tape down on the tape I just applied, if I get wrinkles at the far back end, lift up a bit, and smooth back down. I can do all the platens (12) on our press in generally about 5 minutes.
I'd think it would take us longer to pull the platens, put the tape on somewhere else, and put them back on... but I could see the point of this if you had 2 sets of platens... someone could be taping the platens while you're printing on a fresh set -- we've actually talked about doing just this for a set of 'hoodie' platens. but the $1200 or so it would cost us for a complete 2nd set of platens, plus the storage hassle is just not something I want to deal with.
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We have lots of pallets. Many need paper changes, but they come off press too fast to get to it. Next job is waiting. I could see this as part of the meshing areas tasks. We assign as needed in time blocks. Like this week it is time for several 4 hour blocks to catch up. Doing paper off press is a good idea. But might be done with a simple one color bolted down as well, or a bracket bolted down.
Interesting gizmo which we will ponder.
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Action has found the nearly perfect venue for test marketing and honing product ideas. If you look at the demographics of the membership here it ranges from Bluemoon at the tip of the mountain to bottom feeders like me. In addition to the broad band of printing experience here many of us here have had several other careers further seasoning the experience in any review.
Action is to be applauded for their brilliant approach in marketing test product balloons and the sheer luck in finding a group like this to float them in.
I do not visit any other of the tee shirt groups out there but I would bet those who do most likely do not see Action posting the same product visions there........they have found Nirvana in the membership here and for that we all get to take a bow.
mooseman
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I love that every time action introduces a new product someone has to post that they could make their own for less money.
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So I think we need to lay off action. They make some great crap and take care of their customers.
I think there is definitely a market for many of their products. But for something like this I just don't really see the point of spending $600 for something that could be "built" quickly with a single dowel and a pair of clamps or even done by hand without much difference in the speed and quality of the process.
I have participated in a few of his concept posts and on the manual roller thread even posted drawings of different schematic ideas etc. Not every idea gets crap on by the forum at large. There are definitely things action makes that cannot be built quickly and cheaply and produce the same results, but this just isn't one of those in my opinion.
I also think moose is right that he is posting here specifically because we have a varied community full of people care a lot about this industry and give unfiltered feedback from an informed context. If he posted on some of the other forums I doubt he would get much usable feedback at all, positive or negative.
When I get back in town I will post a diy version of this in an effort to support my opinion and further the discussion. Any critiques of mine will be welcome and expected, which I'm sure is exactly the way Erik feels as well.
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Might make more sense to have a simpler holder for the roll to use on rear-clamp presses where you chuck the holder into the clamp, but unless you're constantly changing paper and have extra pallets laying around, I'm not sure the bang for the buck is there. Just have one of your flunkies hold the roll up while you squeegie it down. If your press is that busy, surely there's someone with a ponytail standing around texting his mom who can hold that roll of paper.
I cobbled up a roll holder out of 2x4s and a couple of plastic bearing ends for pvc pipe I got from McMaster-Carr years ago that I clamp to the end of a table that I used for sign vinyl paper. I'll post a pic later if I get off my ass today and venture over to my storage unit. It works pretty well and set me back probably less than ten bucks.
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Beanie 357 see's the potential :)
The unit Action has made has a market for larger shops with 3- 4 plus automatics.... with many many sets of different pallet sizes.
There is always going to be some pallet changing going on. If a shop could minimize down time on press by always putting on clean pallets, I see that as a win.
Obviously it will not happen all the time. Some presses will have the same set of pallets on for weeks.... but overall.... I can see it working.
But in my 2 auto shop, I cant justify it with our current work load.
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great idea! We change paper every other day, so that's 20 min of press time per week we can save. I'd be interested in testing the MHM version!
pierre
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I love that every time action introduces a new product someone has to post that they could make their own for less money.
How would you feel if you were offering screen printing services and some one said they could buy some crap from ryonet and print the shirts themselves for less money. It's true, but it's pretty lame.
I could build a car for less than I pay Honda but that's not the point.
So I think we need to lay off action. They make some great crap and take care of their customers.
I for one don't have the time or energy to build this stuff. So I'm glad the team at action is putting the thought and engineering to make products to make my business successful.
Erik deserves a million kisses from me for making winged floodbars alone!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Drinks are on me at our next meeting Jamie. Thank you sincerely for your very kind words and encouragement!
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Action has found the nearly perfect venue for test marketing and honing product ideas. If you look at the demographics of the membership here it ranges from Bluemoon at the tip of the mountain to bottom feeders like me. In addition to the broad band of printing experience here many of us here have had several other careers further seasoning the experience in any review.
Action is to be applauded for their brilliant approach in marketing test product balloons and the sheer luck in finding a group like this to float them in.
I do not visit any other of the tee shirt groups out there but I would bet those who do most likely do not see Action posting the same product visions there........they have found Nirvana in the membership here and for that we all get to take a bow.
mooseman
I couldn't have said it better. What you said is absolutely true - it doesn't get better than this. Having this forum with you members to 'bounce ideas off' of is just fantastic.
The feedback that we just received on our new product vision is priceless. There’s no better way to really hear someone’s true thoughts. At a trade show – everybody is just smiley and happy. With direct mailers or magazines – no one’s ever going to call and say nah- but this – this is perfect. I can’t thank you guys enough for taking the time to critique us. The negative’s are just as important as the positive feedback. Without it – we wouldn’t know that we’re hearing the truth.
Frog – yes – it positively helps us sharpen our game like no other tool could.
The TSB gang is by far the most experienced in our industry. I have spoken to people from some the largest shops around the world & found that they come here regularly without ever registering. While they don’t speak up, they still use this forum to further their expertise.
Re: Other tee shirt groups – There are none that even come close to this. Therefore – again you are correct Mooseman, you’ll not find us wasting our time elsewhere.
Now – with regard to The PCS: It’s definitely not for every shop. The intent was to address a need in shops that have more than three or four autos and routinely change pallets. It’s during the pallet changeovers that this should be employed.
Yes – it could be made cheaper. However, I’m of the opinion that many here are like myself in the fact that I only want nice things in my shop.
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Might make more sense to have a simpler holder for the roll to use on rear-clamp presses where you chuck the holder into the clamp, but unless you're constantly changing paper and have extra pallets laying around, I'm not sure the bang for the buck is there. Just have one of your flunkies hold the roll up while you squeegie it down. If your press is that busy, surely there's someone with a ponytail standing around texting his mom who can hold that roll of paper.
I cobbled up a roll holder out of 2x4s and a couple of plastic bearing ends for pvc pipe I got from McMaster-Carr years ago that I clamp to the end of a table that I used for sign vinyl paper. I'll post a pic later if I get off my ass today and venture over to my storage unit. It works pretty well and set me back probably less than ten bucks.
surely there's someone with a ponytail standing around texting his mom who can hold that roll of paper.
- Oh that made me laugh! Thank you :-)
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This thread got me thinking and I couldn't wait to get to the shop this morning. I now have a new use for an old piece of equipment. It's called a Big Squeegee and it's used for applying graphics. It's been sitting under a table unused for years, not anymore. I took a quick video on my second try using it. https://youtu.be/w8nuDk7iQ2g (https://youtu.be/w8nuDk7iQ2g)
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surely there's someone with a ponytail standing around texting his mom who can hold that roll of paper.
-- yeah, but now he'll be texting his mom complaining that you're making him work harder, and then she'll be calling you to complain that you're treating 'her little angel' poorly.
True story about that: we fired a kid for being worthless and the mom called me to b!tch me out.
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This thread got me thinking and I couldn't wait to get to the shop this morning. I now have a new use for an old piece of equipment. It's called a Big Squeegee and it's used for applying graphics. It's been sitting under a table unused for years, not anymore. I took a quick video on my second try using it. https://youtu.be/w8nuDk7iQ2g (https://youtu.be/w8nuDk7iQ2g)
Nice Tom.
On your 3rd attempt we want to see a bracket on the Big Squeegee to hold the paper roll, kind of an auto paper starter / feeder like those white out things I use to fix mistakes on my computer screen.....great re-use of a sleeping tool.
mooseman
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O that would be cool, like a tape dispenser maybe 8 inches away from the squeegee at a right angle. Not sure how to auto cut though...
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Erik, take it up a notch. Put the pallet bracket on linear rails, have a spring loaded squeegee or alp actor tool. The pallet slides under the roll as the cover is applied. When the pallet comes out the other side it is covered and ready to go. You could even add adjustable blades on each side to trim the paper and a slid cutter to cut the end.
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f*ck it, i'm just going to buy a robot to do it...
http://www.rethinkrobotics.com/baxter/ (http://www.rethinkrobotics.com/baxter/)
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Erik, take it up a notch. Put the pallet bracket on linear rails, have a spring loaded squeegee or alp actor tool. The pallet slides under the roll as the cover is applied. When the pallet comes out the other side it is covered and ready to go. You could even add adjustable blades on each side to trim the paper and a slid cutter to cut the end.
!! I think you're onto something amigo. Thanks !! I'll work on it. I have numerous idea already.
Now for the real question - How much will the market be willing to bear??
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I'll give Action all the credit in the world for thinking ahead, I can see this being used in large shops and a few I want it shops because everyone one else has one, but for us I just start my tape at the back of the pallet and roll to the front and cut fold and done...dam I'm always doing something wrong :'(
darryl
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How about one of these gizmos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZJ50Fjfhw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZJ50Fjfhw)
http://www.image1impact.com/pro-roll-tape-applicators (http://www.image1impact.com/pro-roll-tape-applicators)
mooseman
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How about one of these gizmos
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZJ50Fjfhw[/url] ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZJ50Fjfhw[/url])
[url]http://www.image1impact.com/pro-roll-tape-applicators[/url] ([url]http://www.image1impact.com/pro-roll-tape-applicators[/url])
mooseman
That looks nice and for $165.71, its will worth it. That's for a 24 inch roller.
Here is a link to a place selling it.
http://www.walkerwide.com/product-p/ta24.htm (http://www.walkerwide.com/product-p/ta24.htm)
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That seems like a better idea. It actually helps in the application process of the tape and is versatile enough that you could use it on or off press.
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Here's the roll holder I made a few years ago. The roll sat on top of the two rollers, with the paper leader feeding under the front one facing the cut vinyl sheet, or your pallet in the case we're speaking of. Clamp the bottom to a table. The two metal uprights were to keep the roll of paper from wanting to veer off one way or the other. As I mentioned before, the roller ends for the PVC came from McMaste-Carr. I think the pipe was 2". Made applying the transfer paper for cut sign vinyl easier to manage for one person.
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How about one of these gizmos
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZJ50Fjfhw[/url] ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZJ50Fjfhw[/url])
[url]http://www.image1impact.com/pro-roll-tape-applicators[/url] ([url]http://www.image1impact.com/pro-roll-tape-applicators[/url])
mooseman
Sweet
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Applying the paper is the easy part. It takes seconds to put the paper on. It is the trimming that takes the time. I am all for innovation and trying to make something that will help out the industry. So with that said its just another piece of equipment that is on the floor in the way once the cool new tool factor wears off. Hats off though for thinking outside the box.
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Here's the roll holder I made a few years ago. The roll sat on top of the two rollers, with the paper leader feeding under the front one facing the cut vinyl sheet, or your pallet in the case we're speaking of. Clamp the bottom to a table. The two metal uprights were to keep the roll of paper from wanting to veer off one way or the other. As I mentioned before, the roller ends for the PVC came from McMaste-Carr. I think the pipe was 2". Made applying the transfer paper for cut sign vinyl easier to manage for one person.
Damn...wish I knew that a couple of years ago, I bought one for our vinyl work paid about $80.00 for a metal double roller.
If I knew there were PVC roller ends I would have had another excuse to wander back into the wood shop.
mooseman