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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: whitewater on August 26, 2011, 01:57:52 PM
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When I am printing I go through a lot of thought...HAHa!...I do have a question though..
I was printing with Union Deep Marine (plus-5030) and the consistency (viscosity??) is like water...reminds me of the Aurora Plus....
Why is this? The black isn't like this or other colors...
What is the correlating factor for yore viscosity?
I pretty much know nothing of ink makeup, but was curious...
Thanks ink guys!
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Erin can weigh in here of course but you'll find that in most ink systems Marine is the weakest and lightest pigment with a short body. It's opposite with regards to these characteristics is yellow. This why yellows tend to be stringy and marine thin and runny.
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I have no helpful info, but a question myself... Has anyone noticed that magenta colored inks have a super strange smell that other colors of inks don't have? When I noticed this more we were using Union plastisols...
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Magenta PC in particular has a very strange smell.
I love how yellow inks tend to smell citrusy, and whites like doughnuts. (titanium dioxide?)
My girlfriend always wants to eat certain color inks. The pastels that look like cake frosting.
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Pigments that make up Deep blues and magentas are very thin because of the lack of titanium dioxide, I think if the manu does not add thickeners it will be very runny.
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I was printing with Union Deep Marine (plus-5030) and the consistency (viscosity??) is like water...reminds me of the Aurora Plus....
Why is this? The black isn't like this or other colors...
What is the correlating factor for yore viscosity?
A lot of the rheological properties that you see in inks are a direct result of the pigments properties.
The ultramarine pigment when processed is very runny. The blue pigments that are on the green and blue side (used in standard blue inks like royal and light blues) are a bit more viscus so those inks have more body. Yellows and oranges are very stringy and thicker. Reds are like the blue green and red shades. Green is a middle ground for rheology and extremely dark and dense when in pigment form. Black pigment is a pure carbon black and is very thick and clumpy when processed. White pigment is of course Titanium Dioxide and is fairly runny when processed. However it also has high oil absorbtion values, so when added unprocessed during manufacturing it can cause the ink to "body up" considerably. It's a nice side effect so you don't have to use many thickeners.
Magenta PC in particular has a very strange smell.
Magenta pigment has a very distinctive odor. And you typically need to add a lot of pigment as it's strength is very low. Just like the Ultramarine pigments. But the Magenta pigments, unlike the ultramarine, are thicker and a bit stringy.
That's the short answer :)
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Thanks guys!
Its just something I was wondering about..
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Magenta PC in particular has a very strange smell.
I love how yellow inks tend to smell citrusy, and whites like doughnuts. (titanium dioxide?)
My girlfriend always wants to eat certain color inks. The pastels that look like cake frosting.
Are you serious? Does red ink taste like cherry or strawberry?
Terry
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Magenta PC in particular has a very strange smell.
I love how yellow inks tend to smell citrusy, and whites like doughnuts. (titanium dioxide?)
My girlfriend always wants to eat certain color inks. The pastels that look like cake frosting.
Are you serious? Does red ink taste like cherry or strawberry?
Terry
Depending on the ink, there will be some scents added to mask it's odor. Doughnuts are a new one for me though....
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I always thought Magenta smelled vaguely "fishy". Anyone know where the pigments are derived from by color? Like, what's ground up to make 'em?
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I always thought Magenta smelled vaguely "fishy". Anyone know where the pigments are derived from by color? Like, what's ground up to make 'em?
I think it's the same pigment/pigment family they use in Salmon Eggs. That's what I have always associated it with.
I don't remember what the base organic/inorganic compounds are to make the pigments from. But it's an easy google search away.
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Black pigment is a pure carbon black and is very thick and clumpy when processed.
Colin, I use mostly Union products, but have switched off trying other inks.
I've always found Union Ultrasoft black to be extremely runny once you start printing. To help with that, I've mixed 50/50 Union Ultrasoft Black with QCM black to get a medium body. I find QCM black to be quite stiff.
Thoughts?
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Easy fix for those pesky runny inks..
Add some thickening paste @ 3-5% weight.
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Black pigment is a pure carbon black and is very thick and clumpy when processed.
Colin, I use mostly Union products, but have switched off trying other inks.
I've always found Union Ultrasoft black to be extremely runny once you start printing. To help with that, I've mixed 50/50 Union Ultrasoft Black with QCM black to get a medium body. I find QCM black to be quite stiff.
Thoughts?
Yea, all the Ultra Soft inks are very runny. They actually need to be low viscocity in order to do it's designed job properly. All ultra soft inks are designed to be driven into the garment, like chino/fashion soft/softee base, to simulate the waterbase ink feel.
My favorite printing black was the LFP-901. Is was creamy, held an amazing edge and dot definition when printed, and was very opaque. It just didn't want to print wet/on/wet.
The other QCm blacks are definitely a bit on the thicker side. However, there are a LOT of people who want a thicker bodied black (for a myriad of reasons). Which is why we never changed anything in those inks.
The benefits to having an ink that is thicker/shorter bodied are many (halftones/detail/image resolution reasons). But the ink also needs to have low drag and still "slump" in front of the squeegee blade when at rest.
You probably have purchased the XOLB-901 black? You have done exactly what I would have, if I had my own shop. Except I would cut it with the Softee Black from QCM.
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Yep, XOLB Black.
Thanks for the info.
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Digging this up from the grave.
We are having issues with the very runny nature of the Union Soft Ink... notably the blues (Mono Blue being the last one we really used). It became quite runny and was giving my printer hell of getting it all over the place. Granted I didn't see how he was handling it but I know he got to the point of taping the outside of the frames so when it would get nasty he would just pull off the tape and retape.
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I use a lot of Union, much of it Ultrasoft, and have not really experienced this, but perhaps you should spring for some PLUS-9114, Union's thickening paste, as John S. suggested a year ago in this very thread when Wayne described his Union Black as too runny.
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I use a lot of Union, much of it Ultrasoft, and have not really experienced this, but perhaps you should spring for some PLUS-9114, Union's thickening paste, as John S. suggested a year ago in this very thread when Wayne described his Union Black as too runny.
I read his recommendation, was just wondering about a second opinion or a voice like yours that says "I shouldn't worry about it."
We all know how inexperienced I am.
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I've used union's ultrasoft and maxopaque for years and have not had any "runny ink issues", but I've never used that blue. It's always of a good consistency and very solid, soft, short bodied.
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A little curious as to it's storage conditions, like was it especially warm at the time? Was it stirred well? Is this new from Union or part of a good deal on Craigslist?
I suggest that tomorrow, you call and talk to a tech and asked if this is typical with that color or perhaps they know of a problem batch.
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A little curious as to it's storage conditions, like was it especially warm at the time? Was it stirred well? Is this new from Union or part of a good deal on Craigslist?
I suggest that tomorrow, you call and talk to a tech and asked if this is typical with that color or perhaps they know of a problem batch.
LOL... bought it from Reece... they do pour their own quarts so who knows what they might have done there.
AC'd shop though they AC isn't working properly (leak somewhere)... still under no more than 90 degrees.
Don't stir the blue because it's moving pretty well right away... though working it on the screen like we were definitely gets it moving even more so!
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The question of stirring was in case it separated, leaving you soup on top and the more solid goodies below.
Actually, now that you say that Reece divvies it up themselves, I also wonder how well it is mixed before.
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our problem with the Union Ultrasoft blue shade inks had always been that they are too stiff and we often have to add some reducer. It is strange that your's would be the opposite.
Call Union and ask to talk to Joe Catizone. They will replace it for you, but will require the purchase receipt. Now that I think about it, call your supplier first!
pierre
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I'm | | <--- this close to being done with Reece. The only factor that keeps me ordering is they have regular deliveries on Tues. and Thurs. for free to my town. This is very convenient.
But they have NEVER got an order right and last time they go it "right" but didn't check to make sure the scoop coater didn't have any gaps like I requested.
Basically I have zero faith that calling Reece will get me anywhere at this point.
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I'm 90% Union Ink from Reece. All except 2 are Plus/Ultrasoft, those 2 others being Maxopake. Everything seems ok. Blues are thin, Navy is a little thicker. Stored in a room next to the 107 degree printing area.
I had some IC Black from another place that I just about had to tilt the screen and pour it back into the container. Couldn't pick it up with anything.
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Digging this up from the grave.
We are having issues with the very runny nature of the Union Soft Ink... notably the blues (Mono Blue being the last one we really used). It became quite runny and was giving my printer hell of getting it all over the place. Granted I didn't see how he was handling it but I know he got to the point of taping the outside of the frames so when it would get nasty he would just pull off the tape and retape.
Thats not the inks fault its your printer. He should be able to handle a wide range of ink viscosities and stay clean. You should be shadowing him some and see what his issue is. I have had guys that just look at ink and get it on them selves and some like me and never get it on their hands.
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Nonetheless, unadulterated Union Ultrasoft should not be "pourable" out of the bucket.
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I get my union from Macbee supply out of texas and I,ve gotten a gal of black ink that was a little runny, but the only problem is getting it back in the can without making a mess, prints fine.
Darryl
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Digging this up from the grave.
We are having issues with the very runny nature of the Union Soft Ink... notably the blues (Mono Blue being the last one we really used). It became quite runny and was giving my printer hell of getting it all over the place. Granted I didn't see how he was handling it but I know he got to the point of taping the outside of the frames so when it would get nasty he would just pull off the tape and retape.
Thats not the inks fault its your printer. He should be able to handle a wide range of ink viscosities and stay clean. You should be shadowing him some and see what his issue is. I have had guys that just look at ink and get it on them selves and some like me and never get it on their hands.
I'm with you... my wife and to a lesser degree myself don't get ink on ourselves either. He's ALWAYS got ink on him. Basically looks at it and it gets on him type of guy as well. It's almost impressive. ;)
I agree he should manage it better. I try to shadow him a good bit and mention things I see when I can... but recently I've had so much to do that I wasn't able to be there. One thing I notice is he flings the squeegee around WAY too much and I try to tell him but once you are in a groove you don't notice these things.
He tried to blame the squeegee for the heads getting ink on them and I said "tell me how an inanimate object is to blame for the ink getting ever where?" ;)
And Andy, it's not POUR-ABLE per say but when it's moving it is pretty thin. That is another reason for bumping the topic, to make sure I am experiencing the same thing and I'm not just complaining about a regular ink being a regular ink vs a problem ink.