its a beast isn't it!
And it will!!!
who is doing the install or do you know yet?
now our shops are almost IDENTICAL! I need to get one of those Vastex Drying Cabinets and then we will be about square. ;)
When does the brush and can of blue paint arrive in the mail?
keep me us posted on how this works out...
we're looking at exactly the same unit.
keep me us posted on how this works out...
we're looking at exactly the same unit.
When does the brush and can of blue paint arrive in the mail?
During busy season we were doing 180 screens a day in one shift on average on our 2 head STE. Didn't beak a sweat.
Nice
Is the tattoo being comped for saying good things about M&R?
This is interesting to me. You do 180 screens a week, do you feel you will get a good ROI with the price of those units.During busy season we were doing 180 screens a day in one shift on average on our 2 head STE. Didn't beak a sweat.
Thats more than we do in a week right now. So we should have zero trouble haha.
This is interesting to me. You do 180 screens a week, do you feel you will get a good ROI with the price of those units.During busy season we were doing 180 screens a day in one shift on average on our 2 head STE. Didn't beak a sweat.
Thats more than we do in a week right now. So we should have zero trouble haha.
180 screens isn't a lot but not just a few.
Just curious as I would like to get one. We do about the same as you that's why Im asking. We are very efficient with work flow with our
Large Amergraph and films.
This is interesting to me. You do 180 screens a week, do you feel you will get a good ROI with the price of those units.During busy season we were doing 180 screens a day in one shift on average on our 2 head STE. Didn't beak a sweat.
Thats more than we do in a week right now. So we should have zero trouble haha.
180 screens isn't a lot but not just a few.
Just curious as I would like to get one. We do about the same as you that's why Im asking. We are very efficient with work flow with our
Large Amergraph and films.
Re read what Dave posted..... He does 180 screens a day
It doesn't matter if you are only doing 30 screens a day, the ROI is still there. Do the math on every single step and you will see its a no brainer.
You can do a ROI, but it won't be too accurate. You can calculate all the tangibles, i.e. cost of film, labor savings, but you don't realize the other saving you will realize. Of course that's just my opinion and what I've seen in over ten years of using CTS.
Reread my post, wasn't talking about Dave. I was talking about Graphic Disorder.This is interesting to me. You do 180 screens a week, do you feel you will get a good ROI with the price of those units.During busy season we were doing 180 screens a day in one shift on average on our 2 head STE. Didn't beak a sweat.
Thats more than we do in a week right now. So we should have zero trouble haha.
180 screens isn't a lot but not just a few.
Just curious as I would like to get one. We do about the same as you that's why Im asking. We are very efficient with work flow with our
Large Amergraph and films.
Re read what Dave posted..... He does 180 screens a day
Reread my post, wasn't talking about Dave. I was talking about Graphic Disorder.This is interesting to me. You do 180 screens a week, do you feel you will get a good ROI with the price of those units.During busy season we were doing 180 screens a day in one shift on average on our 2 head STE. Didn't beak a sweat.
Thats more than we do in a week right now. So we should have zero trouble haha.
180 screens isn't a lot but not just a few.
Just curious as I would like to get one. We do about the same as you that's why Im asking. We are very efficient with work flow with our
Large Amergraph and films.
Re read what Dave posted..... He does 180 screens a day
::)
Hopefully there will be a few CTS's's's's's's's at the ISS Ft. Worth this year because last year there was...wait for it....1 for me to look at.
I'm sure we all remember the 11 month ROI thread and that famous CTS. That thing must be practically printing money by now...lucky.
::)
Hopefully there will be a few CTS's's's's's's's at the ISS Ft. Worth this year because last year there was...wait for it....1 for me to look at.
I'm sure we all remember the 11 month ROI thread and that famous CTS. That thing must be practically printing money by now...lucky.
Brandt, prepare to take Monday and instead of it being just a day to do set ups, a day of set ups and printing, you will see!!, That is if you still schedule like that, I remember you mentioning that in a past thread recently. Anyways congrats, and welcome to the Rocket Launcher posse!! ;D
Brandt, prepare to take Monday and instead of it being just a day to do set ups, a day of set ups and printing, you will see!!, That is if you still schedule like that, I remember you mentioning that in a past thread recently. Anyways congrats, and welcome to the Rocket Launcher posse!! ;D
This is exactly what we are trying to do. We are at the point we need to print more jobs, we need to output faster to do that. Simple as that. We will be like most of our stuff in excess capacity which is great to have that problem then not be able to go faster because of some bottle neck. Our shop is running with 8 people today, sorted 48 boxes today via UPS..... we are not exactly slow here. We also paid cash for the CTS. :D
Brandt, prepare to take Monday and instead of it being just a day to do set ups, a day of set ups and printing, you will see!!, That is if you still schedule like that, I remember you mentioning that in a past thread recently. Anyways congrats, and welcome to the Rocket Launcher posse!! ;D
This is exactly what we are trying to do. We are at the point we need to print more jobs, we need to output faster to do that. Simple as that. We will be like most of our stuff in excess capacity which is great to have that problem then not be able to go faster because of some bottle neck. Our shop is running with 8 people today, sorted 48 boxes today via UPS..... we are not exactly slow here. We also paid cash for the CTS. :D
Boy you must be printing a lot to pay for all of this stuff. What's the impression count on your new press at these days?
ROI isn't everything for sure. But having a machine that pays for itself (vs. some "alternate" funding paying for it) is.
Some of you could about afford a DTS just on the wasted time discussing it on the internet.
QuoteSome of you could about afford a DTS just on the wasted time discussing it on the internet.
this ^^^^
we turn between 50-80 screens a week... and are very close to pulling the trigger.
QuoteSome of you could about afford a DTS just on the wasted time discussing it on the internet.
this ^^^^
we turn between 50-80 screens a week... and are very close to pulling the trigger.
We do a little bit more, and man it's been so helpful!
::)
Hopefully there will be a few CTS's's's's's's's at the ISS Ft. Worth this year because last year there was...wait for it....1 for me to look at.
I'm sure we all remember the 11 month ROI thread and that famous CTS. That thing must be practically printing money by now...lucky.
Good ole Sam. Some suggest that ROI doesn't matter at all, they would never live with out it again. Those are powerful statements from guys like Bim, Danny, and Dirk. Do you have a column for that on your fancy ROI sheet?
Around 70k impressions last I looked.
QuoteSome of you could about afford a DTS just on the wasted time discussing it on the internet.
this ^^^^
we turn between 50-80 screens a week... and are very close to pulling the trigger.
We do a little bit more, and man it's been so helpful!
So you wouldn't do with out one now?
::)
Hopefully there will be a few CTS's's's's's's's at the ISS Ft. Worth this year because last year there was...wait for it....1 for me to look at.
I'm sure we all remember the 11 month ROI thread and that famous CTS. That thing must be practically printing money by now...lucky.
Good ole Sam. Some suggest that ROI doesn't matter at all, they would never live with out it again. Those are powerful statements from guys like Bim, Danny, and Dirk. Do you have a column for that on your fancy ROI sheet?
I don't have a fancy ROI sheet and why would I need to add a column about statements from guys that I respect about a technology that I like? Is this another thread where you pee on people's shoes and tell them it's raining? Or one that you try and convince us you're a genius because you bought a jackhammer to hammer a few nails? Sometimes I feel like Kenny Powers is on this forum.
And for those who may not know or remember correctly about my CTS argument, it was simply that Sam's supposed ROI was BS, along with a bunch of other claims that were made I might add. He left a lot of things out of his argument and never told the whole story.
So let's make this clear once and for all: I believe CTS is the greatest technology the screen printing industry has seen in 20 years. I DON'T BELIEVE that a shop that was doing 15 screens a day could see an ROI of 11 months on a $30-50K machine unless they were INCREDIBLY inefficient at pre-press and setup. And I feel more than just a little vindicated in my argument these days. Seems I was right about a lot of things but who's keeping score?
Around 70k impressions last I looked.
You're the king of the internet. Pics or it didn't happen....
I forgot you bought it used....
like a loser.
That's a lot of distressed wood grain sweetheart!
If I were to start from scratch building my company from the ground up, personally I would have purchased a dts to pair with an automatic right from the get go.
That's a lot of distressed wood grain sweetheart!
What are you printing? Dumb asses sitting on a porch drinking cheap beer?
That's a lot of distressed wood grain sweetheart!
What are you printing? Dumb asses sitting on a porch drinking cheap beer?
Ooooohhhhh, slick burn! Don't you have some Facebook spamming or parent whipping to get to?
I'm just glad I now know how to get under your skin, just like you do to every one around you.
Let's get this straight. I don't believe you or most anything you say. You're a braggart and a blowhard.
And as far as I'm concerned, a liar. I've never seen anyone that has actually earned their ups
flaunting it as you do. That alone questions the validity.
We are talking about a price of machinery, not love or some other emotion...
Some ppl had magic ROI's because they never revealed to us that they bought a machine that cost a fraction of the machine
Brandt, that's a far cry... No one has brought up Sam and his ROI claims for a long time... It's relevant to the discussion. That's like never bringing up any fact of history because we should have "let it go by now".
what are the approx dimensions of this machine? how much room do you need to have to work around it?
Why did you choose the M&R model vs the other brands available? beside the kickass CS you get with anything M&R...
Just curious as I have to do some due diligence here...I know next to nothing about DTS machines except that I need one sooner rather than later....but I need to know why I need this model vs others.
Would some of you CTS guys at least agree that a shop doing about 6-7 repeat jobs out of every 10, and a shop that sets up a 6 color job in about 8 minutes (using film generated screens and a modified triloc that doesn't use carrier sheets) will NOT see the same benefits as a shop that takes 30 minutes to setup a 6 color job, with or without a decent preregistration system? LIKE NOT EVEN CLOSE?
My comments aren't meant as a slight to CTS and those of you that have them. It's like you want me to admit something I don't have a problem admitting but when I ask a question it get's no answer, only blowhard wise-ass comments trying to argue something I'm not trying to argue about.
Hey, I'd love to be able to buy equipment and not have to worry about what it costs or how much I was going to use it, but that's not a reality that most people get to live like Brandt so we play the cards we're dealt. So if me using math, spreadsheets and ROI offends some of you and it's stupid and without "logic", then oh well. I think the quality, volume and efficiency that this shop operates at is all the proof I need to back my statements. And I'm not arguing that most CTS users don't really see huge gains in every aspect of production either, I'm simply saying our production speaks for itself and there is good reason why we do the amount of work we do with one auto and 3 guys but nobody will ever recognize that because we simply don't have a CTS yet. I don't understand why Brandt thinks I'm arguing against CTS technology or against guys that bought them. I'M SAYING THAT SRI HAS MANAGED TO DO JOBS QUICKLY WITHOUT A CTS. If you have the money for one, buy one, buy two, I know it will help you, but don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to what this shop achieves without it. I do have opinions on smaller shops buying them when it comes to the numbers and how it pertains to whether or not it's a good "business decision" but I also have never said anything negative about making jobs easier and what that means in a production environment if you buy one just for quality of worklife. If you want to spend $50K to save an hour a week, who am I to say you're stupid? Just don't tell me I don't know jack because I use math, numbers, ROI spreadsheets because I do have a problem with that. No amount of statements from CTS users will ever convince me that a small shop, that may or may not do a lot of repeat jobs, will benefit financially from adding a CTS when they could buy a triloc, modify it and see setups as fast as we see. There will be benefits, but from a strict business decision standpoint, there are/is at least one better option. There is no better option for increasing production efficiency than a CTS when you don't look at the price of the machine. If you're doing 10 jobs a week and can make the payment on a CTS, it's none of my business if you buy it or not. But, if you're a shop that wants to increase your setup times, CTS is a fantastic option, or you could do what we did. With film, I setup a 4 color sim process job for the pound for pound champ, in 5 minutes and one test print, and just me doing the setup. I did it without a CTS. We had to print out film and burn the screens traditionally, and on that job we could have saved more than a few minutes, but not 30 like some shops might see. Now do you want to start putting in all the numbers for the repeat jobs we do? Didn't think so.
And I know some of you will think this logic is super gay, but there is nobody, not Dirk, not Danny, maybe Dave, that can convince me that we will see MUCH MORE than a 30% increase in overall efficiency and a production capacity increase of about 35-40%. Those numbers are nothing to scoff at either, they're actually HUGE for a shop our size in my opinion. BUT, we're talking about dropping $70-80K to reach those numbers, with a $40K machine our numbers won't be as significant as above. We could increase one of those numbers well beyond that by buying a second auto, but at a much higher overhead and likely a loss of efficiency than a CTS would do which would actually be lowering our overhead. But if you think you'll convince me that we'll see a lot more than that because people say that they'll NEVER EVER go back to using film, my brain doesn't work that way. I can't drop $70K because really good print shops (ran by guys I respect a lot) tell me they absolutely love their CTS and they'll never use film ever again. Why doesn't that compute with you Brandt? You always argue that nobody knows how your shop operates and nobody can tell you what to do or how to do it, yet you are a hypocrite when it comes to this argument and have no respect for an opinion you don't share and have to drop smartass comments meant to lure people into an argument.
And it's funny how nobody wants to bring up something that will not help their argument and claim that it's not news and those of us that do bring it up can't let go of the past. Is there a moratorium on talking about Sam now? What's the big deal?
The only guys that really understand where I'm coming from are the MHM and Sroque guys, wonder why that is? The CTS argument doesn't really peak the interest of the MHM and Sroque crowd as much as it does others. It's still a good option but for whatever reason it's not as big of a deal.
Would some of you CTS guys at least agree that a shop doing about 6-7 repeat jobs out of every 10, and a shop that sets up a 6 color job in about 8 minutes (using film generated screens and a modified triloc that doesn't use carrier sheets) will NOT see the same benefits as a shop that takes 30 minutes to setup a 6 color job, with or without a decent preregistration system? LIKE NOT EVEN CLOSE?
My comments aren't meant as a slight to CTS and those of you that have them. It's like you want me to admit something I don't have a problem admitting but when I ask a question it get's no answer, only blowhard wise-ass comments trying to argue something I'm not trying to argue about.
Hey, I'd love to be able to buy equipment and not have to worry about what it costs or how much I was going to use it, but that's not a reality that most people get to live like Brandt so we play the cards we're dealt. So if me using math, spreadsheets and ROI offends some of you and it's stupid and without "logic", then oh well. I think the quality, volume and efficiency that this shop operates at is all the proof I need to back my statements. And I'm not arguing that most CTS users don't really see huge gains in every aspect of production either, I'm simply saying our production speaks for itself and there is good reason why we do the amount of work we do with one auto and 3 guys but nobody will ever recognize that because we simply don't have a CTS yet. I don't understand why Brandt thinks I'm arguing against CTS technology or against guys that bought them. I'M SAYING THAT SRI HAS MANAGED TO DO JOBS QUICKLY WITHOUT A CTS. If you have the money for one, buy one, buy two, I know it will help you, but don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to what this shop achieves without it. I do have opinions on smaller shops buying them when it comes to the numbers and how it pertains to whether or not it's a good "business decision" but I also have never said anything negative about making jobs easier and what that means in a production environment if you buy one just for quality of worklife. If you want to spend $50K to save an hour a week, who am I to say you're stupid? Just don't tell me I don't know jack because I use math, numbers, ROI spreadsheets because I do have a problem with that. No amount of statements from CTS users will ever convince me that a small shop, that may or may not do a lot of repeat jobs, will benefit financially from adding a CTS when they could buy a triloc, modify it and see setups as fast as we see. There will be benefits, but from a strict business decision standpoint, there are/is at least one better option. There is no better option for increasing production efficiency than a CTS when you don't look at the price of the machine. If you're doing 10 jobs a week and can make the payment on a CTS, it's none of my business if you buy it or not. But, if you're a shop that wants to increase your setup times, CTS is a fantastic option, or you could do what we did. With film, I setup a 4 color sim process job for the pound for pound champ, in 5 minutes and one test print, and just me doing the setup. I did it without a CTS. We had to print out film and burn the screens traditionally, and on that job we could have saved more than a few minutes, but not 30 like some shops might see. Now do you want to start putting in all the numbers for the repeat jobs we do? Didn't think so.
And I know some of you will think this logic is super gay, but there is nobody, not Dirk, not Danny, maybe Dave, that can convince me that we will see MUCH MORE than a 30% increase in overall efficiency and a production capacity increase of about 35-40%. Those numbers are nothing to scoff at either, they're actually HUGE for a shop our size in my opinion. BUT, we're talking about dropping $70-80K to reach those numbers, with a $40K machine our numbers won't be as significant as above. We could increase one of those numbers well beyond that by buying a second auto, but at a much higher overhead and likely a loss of efficiency than a CTS would do which would actually be lowering our overhead. But if you think you'll convince me that we'll see a lot more than that because people say that they'll NEVER EVER go back to using film, my brain doesn't work that way. I can't drop $70K because really good print shops (ran by guys I respect a lot) tell me they absolutely love their CTS and they'll never use film ever again. Why doesn't that compute with you Brandt? You always argue that nobody knows how your shop operates and nobody can tell you what to do or how to do it, yet you are a hypocrite when it comes to this argument and have no respect for an opinion you don't share and have to drop smartass comments meant to lure people into an argument.
And it's funny how nobody wants to bring up something that will not help their argument and claim that it's not news and those of us that do bring it up can't let go of the past. Is there a moratorium on talking about Sam now? What's the big deal?
The only guys that really understand where I'm coming from are the MHM and Sroque guys, wonder why that is? The CTS argument doesn't really peak the interest of the MHM and Sroque crowd as much as it does others. It's still a good option but for whatever reason it's not as big of a deal.
Funniest thing ever posted about DTS.
I saw the difference in Danny's prints between the Lawson and the M&R (heck I may have seen his old lawson as well) :)
I will say that there seems to be a big step up between prints that were generated on the old unit to the new unit. Plus, I believe that Danny wrote on the note to Rich that he set the print up that I saw without touching a single micro. -- Nice print BTW, I love your use of the white stripe around the art to make it look 3d. (and the US/14 on the bouy) :)
I'm preparing to write the check on one for our shop... here's several things that have gone through our heads:
1. setups will be MUCH faster...
2. film takes a long time to print, then move, then image, etc.
3. if we use permanently blocked out screens, and don't need to micro much if at all, I bet we can get away with never using registration marks or anything else to tape. So we save the $$$ in tape cost.
4. Film does cost money... I figured out the other day that we go through rougly $150-$200 in film and ink EVERY month.
5. even if you're fast, registering a film onto the screen takes additional time.
on a 4 or 5 color tight registration job, today it takes us 40-50 minutes to set that job up on press. if I can set that same job up in 5 or 10 minutes max, now we can print that many more jobs.
PLUS, less training for the screen room operator.
I'm sure there's other benefits that I'll realize once we start using it, but those are my thoughts right now.
3. if we use permanently blocked out screens, and don't need to micro much if at all, I bet we can get away with never using registration marks or anything else to tape. So we save the $$$ in tape cost.
3. if we use permanently blocked out screens, and don't need to micro much if at all, I bet we can get away with never using registration marks or anything else to tape. So we save the $$$ in tape cost.
haha oh no you didn't....
Ink cost is roughly .03-.07 per screen.I saw the difference in Danny's prints between the Lawson and the M&R (heck I may have seen his old lawson as well) :)
I will say that there seems to be a big step up between prints that were generated on the old unit to the new unit. Plus, I believe that Danny wrote on the note to Rich that he set the print up that I saw without touching a single micro. -- Nice print BTW, I love your use of the white stripe around the art to make it look 3d. (and the US/14 on the bouy) :)
I'm preparing to write the check on one for our shop... here's several things that have gone through our heads:
1. setups will be MUCH faster...
2. film takes a long time to print, then move, then image, etc.
3. if we use permanently blocked out screens, and don't need to micro much if at all, I bet we can get away with never using registration marks or anything else to tape. So we save the $$$ in tape cost.
4. Film does cost money... I figured out the other day that we go through rougly $150-$200 in film and ink EVERY month.
5. even if you're fast, registering a film onto the screen takes additional time.
on a 4 or 5 color tight registration job, today it takes us 40-50 minutes to set that job up on press. if I can set that same job up in 5 or 10 minutes max, now we can print that many more jobs.
PLUS, less training for the screen room operator.
I'm sure there's other benefits that I'll realize once we start using it, but those are my thoughts right now.
#4...I know you'll save money on film. But wouldn't you use roughly the same amount of ink? Or whatever the I-Image uses...I'm assuming that is some sort of special ink. What does that cost?
I bought a helicopter with cash and it gets me to my shop 20min faster each day. It was a no brainer, I just did it, wouldn't ever go back to driving!
I bought a helicopter with cash and it gets me to my shop 20min faster each day. It was a no brainer, I just did it, wouldn't ever go back to driving!
I was thinking the EXACT same thing.
Brandt, you should buy all of your guys sports cars... the drive to work would then put them in a better mood and they would be more productive for you. No brainer!
Also Brandt... do we really want to talk about "letting go of the past"... I mean you are STILL on DS running your keyboard about fat bob anytime you can. Don't get me wrong, people need to be warned, but you are certainly not one to suggest that someone "let go" of something with that crusade you have going on there.
please sort your personal issues via PM's. Voicing your disparagement once is enough, move on from there. I will start cutting stuff if things don't get better.I agree. Who cares who can pay cash or has to finance. Who cares its a no brainer.
pierre
For us, "me" it was all about quality of LIFE. So I had to wait a little longer to get my Harley, but the headaches and other stuff that went around carrier sheets and all that would have kept me from riding anyway,so we got the CTS. Now it's up'd our efficiency to justify and see the need to add another auto within the next few months, so as a small shop owner, it was an awesome addition! Gary-Islandtees-- not sure if you remember me, I came to your shop a few years ago, bought a bunch of newman frames from you. I've seen your nice operation, and how busy you guys look, if I were you, I would seriously consider a CTS! Hope all is well with you and Laura!Hey Mike,
Mike
For us, "me" it was all about quality of LIFE. So I had to wait a little longer to get my Harley, but the headaches and other stuff that went around carrier sheets and all that would have kept me from riding anyway,so we got the CTS. Now it's up'd our efficiency to justify and see the need to add another auto within the next few months, so as a small shop owner, it was an awesome addition! Gary-Islandtees-- not sure if you remember me, I came to your shop a few years ago, bought a bunch of newman frames from you. I've seen your nice operation, and how busy you guys look, if I were you, I would seriously consider a CTS! Hope all is well with you and Laura!Hey Mike,
Mike
Of course I remember you. You sure as hell grew fast and seem to be doing great. Happy for you!!!
Yes we are very busy and considering one of these.
I may have to come to your shop and check it out 1 day.
Gary
One thing is for sure. CTS/DTS has become a pretty passionate topic on this forum. Seemingly more so than more important things in the shop or how to run a business to start with.
Ok, here is something to consider that I don't think anyone has brought up. Last year my artist was ready to quit! If he had 20 approvals, it took about 2 or 3 days to just output film. Customers were getting pissed because we couldn't do art fast enough, and I even have 2 contract artists on my payroll. It was either he was going to quit, or I was gonna hire another fulltime in house artist, or I was going to buy a CTS and make everybodys job WAY EASIER! Guess what I did? Guess who is happy now. My artist can now do 2 or 3 times the art he was doing, that alone is enough to change to CTS. I was scared about the money like many because I have brand new EVERYTHING at my shop. But a wise man, I wont mention your name, but you know who you are, kept telling me, "you are stepping over dollars to pick up pennies, or something like that" He was right! If anyone needs any real world advice for getting one or not getting one, give me a call, I can tell the truth in my experience. Don't try to justify if you do enough screens or not. If you can afford it, DO IT, and thank me later.I don't understand, it takes days to output film? We do many jobs and output films very quickly. Seperations that is done takes the time, not outputting film. Maybe Im missing something here, does the machine do the seperations also. Do you still have to do seperations before sending it to the machine? If you still have to do seps then the machine seems to be a big film printer going on the screen and not films. Please give me more insight on the procedure once the artwork is completed.
Epson 4900 output a 10 color job at 1440 takes about 7 mins. per film add that up over 20 jobs. Its slow go. My artist also had the task of doing that AFTER he did the seps. This was enough for the change at MY SHOP! Again, MY SHOP.Now I see why. In our shop we have 1 computer just for film output. When our artist seperates the job they input the seps in the computer. Hit the button and the rip makes the films. During that time frame the artist doesn't watch films being made, but begins the next separation job on another computer. That's why we can produce many films and seperations in a shorter time frame. That's in our shop. MY SHOP! I still have not seen convincing discussion how this makes a big difference in a shop other than saying it does. I would like to know the procedure from the completion of artwork till inputting the seps in the machine and time frames. Everyone just keeps saying how great this is. Im sure it is, but I need more info to see if this fits my shop.
put them all a carriers, it takes time. Put 20 10 color jobs on carriers.
I get it. Carrier sheets. That was my missing link. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would use them so I never think of them in these discussions.What if you don't use a trilock? Carrier sheets is not a problem.
I get it. Carrier sheets. That was my missing link. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would use them so I never think of them in these discussions.What if you don't use a trilock? Carrier sheets is not a problem.
ps: I'm cheap, so we re-use our tape for film to screen.
It's interesting as we learn more and more about each other's shops we can see where some shops do something really smart or well but are terrible at other things. Some shops boast time savings on X but give it up on Y. My shop included. We are terrible at giving up some tasks to employees and that creates a bottle necks. Some shops screw themselves in other ways like space, time management, sales, marketing, books and so on. Not one of us have the perfect solution or shop.
Our shops are all very different. It would be fun to visit many shops and create a hybrid of several shops. I'd love to have the time to analyze our processes like Alan.... I'd want to print and sep as well as Danny's shop. I'd love to have Dave's and Tonys experience. I'd want to have volume like Castle or Greg and I'd like to do all of that via my shops internet style business with no walk ins or phones and all prepaid in a building the size of M&R so there is room for go cart racing.
M&R here to. We tried the tri lock and didn't like. The sheets were one of the biggest things we didn't like. Made our own alignment system that works well without using sheets. Since you can use the I image with trilock and no sheets would make me try the trilock again.I get it. Carrier sheets. That was my missing link. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would use them so I never think of them in these discussions.What if you don't use a trilock? Carrier sheets is not a problem.
Good points, I can only speak for M&R equipment because its all I have ever used for 17 years. If you have a blue press that was made after the trilock and you are not using it, you are wasting time. The I-image is made for the tri-lock. It probably does work for other machines, but better with M&R equipment. I went my first 17 years in this business and worked for a super successful large shop and only used film. You can be successful without CTS, I just choose to have it, makes my life easier.
Max image area is based on screen size. It really is a question of how big your press can go with that frame size.
Yes, you can gang images on the unit, if you want both images to tri loc you gave to remove and flip the screen in between them.
M&R here to. We tried the tri lock and didn't like. The sheets were one of the biggest things we didn't like. Made our own alignment system that works well without using sheets. Since you can use the I image with trilock and no sheets would make me try the trilock again.I get it. Carrier sheets. That was my missing link. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would use them so I never think of them in these discussions.What if you don't use a trilock? Carrier sheets is not a problem.
Good points, I can only speak for M&R equipment because its all I have ever used for 17 years. If you have a blue press that was made after the trilock and you are not using it, you are wasting time. The I-image is made for the tri-lock. It probably does work for other machines, but better with M&R equipment. I went my first 17 years in this business and worked for a super successful large shop and only used film. You can be successful without CTS, I just choose to have it, makes my life easier.
What I still don't get is how you input info to the I image. Does this have a rip. Do you do the seps first and input all the seps and then start loading screens?
any of you guys care to measure the slant model i-image and let me know the dimensions and how big I need to make the door opening to get it in?
Also, is anybody running these things on a UPS? We have a big 5kw UPS that used to be for a small datacenter that we run all the office computers and network stuff off of. I'm considering putting a separate drop into the screen room for it.
A big question for me still is backup; what if it breaks down? Do you still have the ability to produce film, and still have the vacuum frame?
For back up we will still have our 4880, film on the shelf, and a tri loc jig on our old MH unit. Keep our LED Starlight unit for our i-Image. So we should be good in the event of any problems, plus it's M&R, any issue would be resolved super fast im sure.
A big question for me still is backup; what if it breaks down? Do you still have the ability to produce film, and still have the vacuum frame?
This would be a concern of mine... if you are big enough to afford DTS, then you are big enough that you can't afford to have it go down either!
You say minimal but don't you have to print a whole job of screens then go back through the screens again and print the other side? Rich, are you reading this? I assume some mechanism locks it in the tri-loc position? Well, why not have the same mechanism on the opposite side to print the other side all in one step? I haven't seen one up close but that would sell me.You can gang images but if you want to use the Tri loc on both images you must flip the screen. Not a big deal as the whole process will take around one minute or less per image including the flipping time.
now that a couple of people have these, what is the correct way to tape up roller frames in order to use this? I thought we had it all set, but the way we currently have it taped, means un-tapeing the whole screen just to re-tension the mesh!
Danny,
When you are ganging screens do you print one complete job/seps (Like the back) then reload each screen and print the next job/seps (Like the front), etc ??? Or can you go back and forth between jobs and complete one screen? Also what locks the screen into the machine at the tri-loc points? Why can't you make the opposite corner similar so both sides register accurately?
Just to make a fair comparison, we have always used tri-loc but have never used a single carrier sheet. Nothing on our glass and we can tape films accurately in seconds.
Gilligan,Could it be done I suppose by why? It takes almost no time and the cost would not justify the results compared to just flipping the screen. Anyone who has one would agree.
I understand all that, but can't it be made where a mechanism locks the screen in to print one side of the screen then it locks in the other direction to print the opposite side of the screen? I haven't seen one up close but seems pretty doable. Some electronic solinoids could push the screen in one direction against one set of stops, print, another set pushes against another set of stops, print, expose.
If you have a chance Gil, visit someone with one, you will see how much of a non-issue it is to gang images. I do it all the time on small sized graphics....
Gilligan,Could it be done I suppose by why? It takes almost no time and the cost would not justify the results compared to just flipping the screen. Anyone who has one would agree.
I understand all that, but can't it be made where a mechanism locks the screen in to print one side of the screen then it locks in the other direction to print the opposite side of the screen? I haven't seen one up close but seems pretty doable. Some electronic solinoids could push the screen in one direction against one set of stops, print, another set pushes against another set of stops, print, expose.
I'm talking about flipping the screen so that I am assured that my top 2 corners are in the stop blocks proper along with the bottom side. It's still more efficient than using another screen frame throughout the day and by flipping the frame, I know for sure I am pre-reg'd perfect. I guess you could work it up to print it all at once, but for me, the flip doesn't really kill much time and as fast as they print, boom boom it's done. I now will give the print at once a try and see the accuracy on press, maybe it's just as accurate, just really haven't tried it yet since the flip method works and is fast.If you do not flip the screen you will be out. This whole issue is a waste of time. It takes no time to do it the way it works now and it works great!
I'm talking about flipping the screen so that I am assured that my top 2 corners are in the stop blocks proper along with the bottom side. It's still more efficient than using another screen frame throughout the day and by flipping the frame, I know for sure I am pre-reg'd perfect. I guess you could work it up to print it all at once, but for me, the flip doesn't really kill much time and as fast as they print, boom boom it's done. I now will give the print at once a try and see the accuracy on press, maybe it's just as accurate, just really haven't tried it yet since the flip method works and is fast.
I think you're starting to pick fly crap out of pepper.
I think you're starting to pick fly crap out of pepper.
QuoteI think you're starting to pick fly crap out of pepper.
LOL. LOVE that one. Can I use it? LOL. That sounds like a Donnie Miller quote.
They start and stop within the area of the image and head home
[/qoute]
awesome.
So no one really answered my main question. I assume you can go back and forth between jobs and print say, White screen image 1, white screen image 2, red screen image 1, red screen image 3, etc... ???
So no one really answered my main question. I assume you can go back and forth between jobs and print say, White screen image 1, white screen image 2, red screen image 1, red screen image 3, etc... ???
With a solenoid, there's extra costs, but there's also the wear on the screen and emulsion as the solenoids would have to push the screen back and forth.
honestly, since it still has to go through 2x even with a mod like that, I can't see any reason why you'd want to do that.
the 10 seconds it takes to remove the frame, flip and re-insert just totally seems like a non issue to me.
I think you're starting to pick fly crap out of pepper.
Ours is about 30-40 days out... can't wait.
Ours is about 30-40 days out... can't wait.
Congrats to you too jvanick.
Brandt, you have yours positioned relative to your exposure unit the same as ours. I remember your excitement and almost wanting to unwrap and start setting it up myself but I'm glad I waited on the tech.
What is the typical ink consumption on one of these guys?
Screens per liter?
Brandt, how much "walkway/loading" room do you have between the farthest front part of the iImage to your exposure units?
trying to figure out how much to bump out the wall of the screen room.
What is the typical ink consumption on one of these guys?usually around .03-.07 per screen. Typically 2,000 screens per liter.
Screens per liter?
You touched on something I haven't much talked about in the CTS discussion. When we went CTS years ago, our artists were the biggest opponents. (too many reasons to discuss here) They turned into the biggest fans after some changes in procedures in the art department. This also led to fewer mistakes, less wasted time and materials, and an all around stronger department. But I know we can't measure intangibles. I could write a short novel on improvements in this area alone, but won't even try.
Brandt, the novel has been sent PM
It's kinda like a new tax or law. You can say "if we increase this tax by 1% it will lead to an increase of $xxx" when in reality it changes behaviors as well and never has the same effect people think it will.
You can measure numbers all day long in a vacuum, but real world can be totally different. As long as the human element is involved it's nearly impossible to calculate ROI with exact numbers. Take for example Alan's pressure washer. He was thinking that it would save him trips to Home Depot, instead they are getting through screens faster and they are cleaner than before, which is something he didn't anticipate. Which helps further down the line with emulsion longevity, pinholes and overall screen processing speed.
I am sure there was a way to say this in less words...this is why I fail at twitter.
the only way to make films nearly as fast as this would be to have a printer that punches alignment holes in them as they print and those would fit into a jig on the expo unit.
not fully...unless the tri-loc will somehow allow you to have a better image...I doubt it. we would sometimes get moire at 55lpi on a 230...i have yet to see it with the i-image...at all.
The detail is so much better...
I think some would be very surprised at just how well our modified triloc works. I get a passionate about the benefits of that thing like I do thin thread mesh because it's an unbelievable tool for us. I can see how some are skeptical but I've never said it's better than a CTS system, but it can't be beat when it comes to ROI here at our shop. Maybe if we could get an STE II for cheap would it beat out our regi system as an investment but that's not reality. I just think that for us it has had such a huge impact that I can't not talk about it with some vigor.
This has been the foundation of my stance on why SRI won't see as big of an increase in throughput as the shop that spends 30 minutes setting up a 6 color job. I haven't a clue how other shops are doing with their setups with a modified triloc, but if anyone wants to see how ours works the doors are always open. The longest I've gone without needing to touch a micro is about 20 screens. On the average 6 color setup, there is one touch of the micro and 2 test prints and we're rolling.Actually, there is a misconception that the DTS produces better screens than film. In general that is not the case. Both ink and wax are printed from far away, compared to the film, and have splatter reduce the quality of the dot. This not to say it's bad, just that imagesetter produces cleaner, more accurate dot
And of course we can't duplicate a CTS's image detail and would have never claimed to, but the only time we see moire is when I get stupid and try to put a 55lpi halftoned image on a 150 or 180. It's been years since we saw moire on anything above a 205. But we've got nice film and a great light source which is the key for us. A CTS'd screen and a new MH bulb will blow our stuff out of the water, but we're printing on T-shirts and you reach the point of diminishing returns due to the ability of the fibers of the shirt to hold only so much detail. I guess if we could output everything at 80lpi on 330/30's it would be neat, but I don't know that we'd ever need that unless I wanted to start trying to win some awards. Which I do have an interest in doing some day and once we get a CTS I'll look further into doing that.
I think some would be very surprised at just how well our modified triloc works. I get a passionate about the benefits of that thing like I do thin thread mesh because it's an unbelievable tool for us. I can see how some are skeptical but I've never said it's better than a CTS system, but it can't be beat when it comes to ROI here at our shop. Maybe if we could get an STE II for cheap would it beat out our regi system as an investment but that's not reality. I just think that for us it has had such a huge impact that I can't not talk about it with some vigor.
Actually, there is a misconception that the DTS produces better screens than film. In general that is not the case. Both ink and wax are printed from far away, compared to the film, and have splatter reduce the quality of the dot. This not to say it's bad, just that imagesetter produces cleaner, more accurate dot
Pierre
Professionally, this thread leaves me thoroughly and completely depressed.
:(
the reason being with film you are making a copy of a copy, which anybody that has seen multiplicity will know it's never as sharp as the original
Alan, you guys are still using your registration system? I remember a while back you saying that your printer refuses to use it LOL
I'd argue that wet imagesetter film will be sharper than directly printing to a screen. We use to run one, that thing was sharp.
That's the german (i believe?) one.. I think Volker posted about it... that one uses a DLP light source to do the exposure
seems to me it was like 150k or so.
Best underrated movie ever. Best quote............."She touched my pepe"the reason being with film you are making a copy of a copy, which anybody that has seen multiplicity will know it's never as sharp as the original
True Eb, buuuut, you still have to print film, you still have to take the time to line them up, even if it's quick, not as quick as printing the sep on the screen and boom you are done. You have to work with one for a couple days, and know what the hype is all about. Not that the FPU isn't a good idea, it's just another element of time and possible human error. We did it all three ways. I cut up a tri lock frame to do what Alan is doing, I don't think I had it quite dialed in as he does so I went back to carrier sheets again and now the CTS, there is no way I'd go backwards. NOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!! ;D
That's the german (i believe?) one.. I think Volker posted about it... that one uses a DLP light source to do the exposure
seems to me it was like 150k or so.
[url]http://www.kiwo.com/Product%20pages/ScreenSetter%20main.html[/url] ([url]http://www.kiwo.com/Product%20pages/ScreenSetter%20main.html[/url])
'94 Gauntlet!?!? SWE-E-E-E-T
Professionally, this thread leaves me thoroughly and completely depressed.
:(
Why so?
Professionally, this thread leaves me thoroughly and completely depressed.
:(
Why so?
I closed my shop and now I am employed by someone who seems to think basic tools and equipment are luxuries. Anything remotely like a DTS system, registration system, LED exposure, etc would simply never end up in this operation. It took weeks just to talk him into a second dip tank for developing. It took MONTHS to order new screens after I counted 60-70% of the inventory was busted or full of holes.
After several years of running everything exactly how I wanted it, and constantly making improvements, now I am getting into arguments about at least fixing what's broke just to keep the shop firmly in the 1990's.
I'm pretty much over it.
Um if I remember correctly, the Signtronic sucker is like $500k. Or as I refer to a price tag like that, "chump change". ;)380 with a 100k show discount. Uses a MH light that costs $3k and has to be replaced every 100 hours. Had serious moire or mesh interference on the printed sample they were displaying at the show.
True Eb, buuuut, you still have to print film, you still have to take the time to line them up, even if it's quick, not as quick as printing the sep on the screen and boom you are done. You have to work with one for a couple days, and know what the hype is all about. Not that the FPU isn't a good idea, it's just another element of time and possible human error. We did it all three ways. I cut up a tri lock frame to do what Alan is doing, I don't think I had it quite dialed in as he does so I went back to carrier sheets again and now the CTS, there is no way I'd go backwards. NOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!! ;D
I get this part, but since we have an MHM and it's FPU, I can place a piece of film in the exactly correct spot in about 5 seconds and tape it down. I'm pretty sure that's faster than printing the image on the screen, and no extra hardware or workarounds necessary... I'm still interested, but I really can't see the change in getting jobs through the shop faster, since we never have printers waiting for screens to print unless it popped on press and an emergency remake is necessary. And if so, 5 seconds to line up and tape a piece of film is pretty quick. I would rather spend 40K somewhere else, like toward a replacement for our '94 Gauntlet.
My point exactly. It just wouldn't make sense for us to invest 40K into something that, while not perfect, simply isn't broken. More/better autos now that makes sense.
Steve
Well I am glad this DTS thread has turned into another copy of the other tons of them lol.
We changed the flow of imaging/burning/washing out. Freeing up a whole employee for something else. Hey maybe we can get our incoming garments sorted before the day it's time to print them now. That would be nice. :D
There will be other time savings as well for OUR shop. But for now even that alone is pretty big deal for us.
Is there a term for beating a beaten dead horse?
Is there a term for beating a beaten dead horse?
That fits!Is there a term for beating a beaten dead horse?
Necro-bestiality?
i'd eat horse.
i'd eat horse.
jump in, the water is warm.
Quotejump in, the water is warm.
that's because you are always peeing in the pool.
That's because it was so spot on. :p
Brandt, why would it have taken you into the night to do screens? I'm assuming art wasn't sped up any by having a new printer, correct me if I'm wrong there.
I follow... you are saying the time saved over the day(s) is what allowed the hole in the schedule for the job. I thought you were just saying for that job alone it was able to allow you to do it.
LOL... if you only knew right now.
CTS wouldn't speed anything up for us at this moment... for that small amount of time our production was down we got WAY behind.
They say when you get an auto, you get busy... well, we got really busy a couple of weeks before it showed up!
brandt if you have kids it's a must to get weekends off. I will work after they are in bed to make sure of it.
You're right, as soon as you get a piece of equipment that you think will solve you problems, you get more orders...and thus more problems.
brandt if you have kids it's a must to get weekends off. I will work after they are in bed to make sure of it.
You're right, as soon as you get a piece of equipment that you think will solve you problems, you get more orders...and thus more problems.
No kids, it's starting to look like I missed that window in life. We are getting pretty old to start trying to have kids.