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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Hey Monkey on August 30, 2014, 12:00:56 PM
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So I am moving from a storage space to a 1700sqft warehouse space in Dec. Super excited. One of the reasons was to expand my screen printing endeavor. I am not looking to be a high volume producer probably would not take more than 500 shirt runs and even that I am not sure about but let's use that as a number. I know I want to be all manual. I love the work and the total hands-on of hand-pulling the prints. I will be doing flatstock as well. Also, I am all water based.
This will be only one facet of my business. I have been a graphic designer for 20 years now. I do not want to be a commercial print shop but rather a more boutique small run but have reputation for doing cool stuff shop. But I will surely take some jobs that might make me cringe as a designer but will help pay the rent. I am not stupid. :)
My business will have multiple revenue streams
- Graphic Design
- Screen Printing (have a few accounts lining up as well as people practically throwing money at me once I am open)
- Workshops (love teaching and bringing people together)
- Event Space
- First Friday and other Gallery type evenings for some retail sales
So what I am getting at is I want a blend of good equipment but it doesn't have to be the end all. I don't want starter, but not at all the top of the line. The money isn't there right now.
Here is what I have right now in my little space:
- 4 color 1 station silver press. Has been getting the job done.
- 16x16 coil flash cure. Using this to flash and cure everything. taking forever but has worked great on all my WB and Discharge.
- Washout Booth.
- 23x31 Ryonet Exposure Unit. Open top. I use foam and weights. Has worked great. 35sec exposures using Textil PV. I then post-expose outside for a bit.
- Epson 1100 converted to an all-black CIS. Gives me 11x17 films which has worked great.
- I built a vacuum table to print up to 18x24 posters.
Here is what I am thinking and asking you for input on. I have searched and read the boards and gotten some great info! Let's assume my total budget is $15,000. I may end up doming some financing to help my initial cash outlay. As of right now I plan on keeping my current equipment as well. Probably could not get much for it anyway.
- M&R Kruzer. Seems to be such a highly regarded press. But others are as well. Opinions?
- Conveyor Dryer. I am not sure I can do a forced air dryer. Cost mostly. But there are so many out there my head is spinning. Having done all my curing with a coil flash I know I would get by with an electric IR unit to start. But which one? I know this one will probably have the most debate.
- Exposure unit to fit 25x36 screens. Compression lid would be nice but I can do without. Love the look of the LED units.
- Upgraded Flash Unit. I will keep the coil. It works. But not against having another unit for flashing between colors.
Any DIY screen rack plans, drying racks for flat stock and other DIY equipment I would love to see as well. I am building a workbench that will have two or three vacuum stations built in for workshops and larger run jobs where I may need help.
Apologies if a lot of these have been answered ad-nasuem. I did search and started to get overwhelmed. :o
Thank you!
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Virtually any exposure unit with a vacuum lid will give noticeably better detailed results than any without. Besides, there should be a few tons of really nice metal halide units out there from early adopters of LED units available used.
Which brings up the issue of used in general.
$15K used at an average of 60% new price could go a long way. (Or you wouldn't have to shoot your whole wad)
Boy, would your money go further!
You could then easily afford forced air on your dryer, and perhaps a longer heat chamber, both a great help with your water based inks.
You could also look at better presses. Though the Kruzer offers great bang for the buck, it is M&R's entry level (though admittedly enters at a higher level than others like the Odyssey or V1000) It still is not their Sidewinder or Chameleon (though I wouldn't want to spin that beast on 500 pieces. Of course, I contract out most jobs over 144 for practicality for my particular operation as it is)
Now, about your manual printing, I'd also look into trying a push stroke, as once many of us long time pullers tried it, we never looked back! It took me more than twenty years to come around.
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Reading Andy's remarks on buying used, and thinking about the next couple of years where I may very well quit this and retire, if I were to sell you MY shop, this is what you'd get for (what I think) is good equipment, for around $10 thousand:
Vastex HD2000 8/4 - immaculate except for a little lint. Standard set of pallets, 1 youth pallet, plus 1 leg pallet and one short sleeve/pocket pallet.
Vastex 18x24 RedFlash with the heavy-duty stand. 220v.
CAPS 20" x 5' Dryer. 220v. Immaculate (probably the least decent piece of equipment in terms of actual value, but for a one-person shop, is adequate).
AmerGraph 150 1200w Metal Halide exposure unit with an extra bulb. Immaculate.
Older HIX heat press. About 16x18. 110v. Hix Heat press for caps. 110v.
Newman pneumatic stretching table for 18x24 and 23x26 MZX retensionable frames with a small compressor.
Stretch Devices Tension Meter. An older model that goes up to 40nm, but I bought it off eBay and sent it into the maker to have it recalibrated. Works perfectly.
Over 40 CLEAN retensionable frames with mesh. Almost all have Shur-Loc panels installed, a few with bolt mesh installed. Most are 18x20. 6 of these are the Sefar retensionables, the rest Newmans. There are also (I think) 6 Sefar 23x26 frames. And not counting are about 6 of the old Newman retensionables with the composite corners that won't work on the table, but do have Shur-Loc panels installed.
A washout sink made from a double-basin utility sink with the partition cut out plus a pressure washer. Not pretty, but they never are if they ever get used.
Ink. A pretty complete Union Mixopake set of inks, plus various quarts of IC plastisols and some QCM, and the odd mixes.
Squeegees. All with aluminum handles.
This is kind of interesting because you sound a bit like myself when I moved out of the garage in 2008 (but add 10 more years in the graphic design biz). I moved back because, aside from the luxury of the space to work, I really didn't need a business location to handle the customers I have, and I was spending almost $1500 a month in the lease/insurance/electrical. Plus, it was hotter than hell.
Maybe I'm off the mark on what my stuff is worth used, but it's all clean and works. Most of those retensionables were bought used and filthy, but they're clean now. My personal hygiene notwithstanding, I at least keep my equipment clean, and anything bought new was kept that way.
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Thanks so far for the info! I have been looking at the higher end M&R or Vastex and like what I see for sure. One thing I will note is I have been using the Ergoforce Squeegee from Ryonet and I love it so much. I have tried both push and pull and pull just feels more natural to me though I may give a full run of something a push stroke to try it. Maybe a "throwaway" project.
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Also, a follow-up question. best places to look for used. I am in the Raleigh, NC area so parts of VA, all of NC and parts of SC would be worth a drive for a good deal. May have to ship from elsewhere unless it was an insane good deal.
Looking on Craigslist, Ebay, where else that I may not know of?
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Digitsmith: http://www.digitsmith.com/f6.html (http://www.digitsmith.com/f6.html)
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Also, a follow-up question. best places to look for used. I am in the Raleigh, NC area so parts of VA, all of NC and parts of SC would be worth a drive for a good deal. May have to ship from elsewhere unless it was an insane good deal.
Looking on Craigslist, Ebay, where else that I may not know of?
A good sales rep for either equipment or supplies. They are tapped into their clients and their moves up or out. That's where the "online only" crowd misses out. A good rep can be a gold mine.
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Shinny and new is great but there are so many killer deals out there on good used equipment. Just make sure you know what your buying before putting money on the table. Make sure the equipment is in good working order, if not sure find someone who knows the equipment to look at it.
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I'll be getting rid of my Antec Legend 6/4, Chaparral 1224 (12' dryer with 24" belt), PROBABLY my auto base flash (man, that will be hard to let go, I love that thing!), and my MSP 3140 pretty soon.
$5,000 for total package if interested. I'll also have a bunch of newman MZX with square bars available as well. This setup has served me well for a few years.
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BTW, the MSP 3140 is my favorite piece of gear in my shop. You almost CAN'T expose a screen wrong!
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I'll be getting rid of my Antec Legend 6/4, Chaparral 1224 (12' dryer with 24" belt), PROBABLY my auto base flash (man, that will be hard to let go, I love that thing!), and my MSP 3140 pretty soon.
$5,000 for total package if interested. I'll also have a bunch of newman MZX with square bars available as well. This setup has served me well for a few years.
And that is a pretty good deal!
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I'll be getting rid of my Antec Legend 6/4, Chaparral 1224 (12' dryer with 24" belt), PROBABLY my auto base flash (man, that will be hard to let go, I love that thing!), and my MSP 3140 pretty soon.
$5,000 for total package if interested. I'll also have a bunch of newman MZX with square bars available as well. This setup has served me well for a few years.
How much would you sell the auto flash for? I am needing one more and more...
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A good sales rep for either equipment or supplies. They are tapped into their clients and their moves up or out. That's where the "online only" crowd misses out. A good rep can be a gold mine.
Who are the good reps? I have no clue how to find a good one in my area...and some of the shops I have asked use certain reps that have horrible reputations online, but their experiences may differ due to their size or who they know etc...
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I'll be getting rid of my Antec Legend 6/4, Chaparral 1224 (12' dryer with 24" belt), PROBABLY my auto base flash (man, that will be hard to let go, I love that thing!), and my MSP 3140 pretty soon.
$5,000 for total package if interested. I'll also have a bunch of newman MZX with square bars available as well. This setup has served me well for a few years.
How much would you sell the auto flash for? I am needing one more and more...
Mimosa, you may have to ask that of Monkey, as he was offered the right of first refusal on the package. :o
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A good sales rep for either equipment or supplies. They are tapped into their clients and their moves up or out. That's where the "online only" crowd misses out. A good rep can be a gold mine.
Who are the good reps? I have no clue how to find a good one in my area...and some of the shops I have asked use certain reps that have horrible reputations online, but their experiences may differ due to their size or who they know etc...
I don't have the slightest idea about suppliers and salesfolk in your vicinity.You need to ask some others around you who they know and trust. Like I said, for me, this goes back to the days of face to face, or phone calls only.
With the internet and its users on both sides making use of the whole country, it's a new ballgame for many.
Here in the SF East Bay Area, I go back 44 years with local suppliers and have seen some salesmen move from company to company.
The guys I seek out know their product, and their clients.
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I'll be getting rid of my Antec Legend 6/4, Chaparral 1224 (12' dryer with 24" belt), PROBABLY my auto base flash (man, that will be hard to let go, I love that thing!), and my MSP 3140 pretty soon.
$5,000 for total package if interested. I'll also have a bunch of newman MZX with square bars available as well. This setup has served me well for a few years.
How much would you sell the auto flash for? I am needing one more and more...
Haha, no worries... Mostly curious about general pricing. :D
Mimosa, you may have to ask that of Monkey, as he was offered the right of first refusal on the package. :o
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Hmm probably $500 bucks.
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I'll be getting rid of my Antec Legend 6/4, Chaparral 1224 (12' dryer with 24" belt), PROBABLY my auto base flash (man, that will be hard to let go, I love that thing!), and my MSP 3140 pretty soon.
$5,000 for total package if interested. I'll also have a bunch of newman MZX with square bars available as well. This setup has served me well for a few years.
How much would you sell the auto flash for? I am needing one more and more...
Mimosa, you may have to ask that of Monkey, as he was offered the right of first refusal on the package. :o
Haha no worries! If you are interested and ready to buy by all means make an offer and sell! Thanks for looking out for me though and all the great info so far!
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I am not looking to be a high volume producer probably would not take more than 500 shirt runs and even that I am not sure about but let's use that as a number. I know I want to be all manual. I love the work and the total hands-on of hand-pulling the prints.
Sorry to question your plan, but I can't for the life of me think of why anyone would want to stay all manual even if they never saw an order over 500.
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I am not looking to be a high volume producer probably would not take more than 500 shirt runs and even that I am not sure about but let's use that as a number. I know I want to be all manual. I love the work and the total hands-on of hand-pulling the prints.
Sorry to question your plan, but I can't for the life of me think of why anyone would want to stay all manual even if they never saw an order over 500.
Hey, mind your own business, till I sell my manual gear. :p
J/K, I agree, but if you want... mine is available. It makes money, but it is the "hard" way.
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If you consistently got orders over 100 pcs you would be hatin life on a manual. I put everything over 24 pcs on the auto.
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If you consistently got orders over 100 pcs you would be hatin life on a manual. I put everything over 24 pcs on the auto.
I won't be having a choice soon! :)
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we don't print much at all on the manual. it's used a couple times a month...maybe.
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DIY and cheap? Depending on how many pieces you are doing, a clothesline can work. Keep your eye on craigslist and other used sites, sometimes nice drying racks come up cheap. There are probably DIY plans to build something nice out there as well.
Equipment opinions:
Kruzer would be the best if you are looking to transition to auto soon. If you are going to stay all manual, the Vastex V2000, Antec Legend, M&R Sidewinder in either 6/6 or 8/8 configuration
Conveyor dryer, Vastex EC2 is a nice dryer that doesn't take up a lot of space. Keep your eye on the used market and you may be able to find one with forced air. Even if you get a used Black body 18" dryer, get a conveyor dryer asap. If you don't use plastisol and only waterbased, then I wouldn't get anything but a dryer with forced air.
Exposure unit, look for a used MSP3140. They are great machines and a lot of people are upgrading to LED right now.
Flash unit. infrared unit. 18"x18" or 18"x20". Remember you lose a couple of inches around all sides. Get something with temp control and you will appreciate it later.
Newman frames.
If you can spare the time to wait a little, you can do very well on the used market. Gilligans stuff for $5K sounds like a great option for you. And it's at a third of your budget.
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Haha. Question my plans all you want, it is why I am here! Remember, I am not looking to be a commercial printer. And I have the option of being very selective with what jobs I do with the other revenue streams I have with my space. I want to stay manual. I enjoy it. After 29 years of sitting on my butt at a computer I am looking forward to standing and getting some physical work into my day.
Most likely I am looking at 100 pc jobs here and there. I just said 500 as a number and it would have to be with a few certain parameters for me to take it. Probably 1 or two color jobs at most which is primarily what I do with the types of clients I tend to get. A few of those a month along with some flatstock jobs.
I have until Dec or Jan to get the equipment so I do have time! I will keep a look out for what will work for me. Keep the ideas and opinions coming and I thank you all for your time so much!