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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Cconcepc on August 22, 2014, 05:29:26 PM
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I have own a shop with two Manuel Presses and looking to buy an Automatic. I was set on the Javelin Pro 6/8 with chopper system, but then the Anatol rep came back with an 8/10 volt for the same price. They are both package deals with two flashes, dryer, exposure unit, ect. I have seen a Jaevlin and think it's a great value and like the flashback. The Anatol has AC heads and servo, but is all electric. I have not seem the volt in Person and not sure about an all electric press. The Anatol seems like the better deal. Does anyone have a Volt or Javelin and have any input? Would there be any quality downside to the All electric press?
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I think the Volt is just too new to really make an informed decision. Give it a couple years on the Volt and then you could evaluate its reliability by hopefully being able to talk to some owners that have real world experience over a couple years and a couple hundred thousand prints.
Don't get me wrong I like the idea of the Volt but some questions about it and how it works have been left unanswered here from Anatol.
So if I were to choose between the two I would say neither and take a look at the Workhorse Sabre if those were the 2 mfgs I was going to choose from.
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Is it apples to apples. Press image size the same? Which flashes IR or Quartz? Exposure units the same?
Talk to at least 3 volt owners, preferably ones who this is not their first, only experience with an auto. Also talk to other Anatol owners who have other models. Do the same with a Workhorse.
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It is apples to apples image size, exposure size both LEDs, dryer size. The workhorse is quartz flashbacks, and anatol is also quartz. I have talked to uses of both and all have had great experiences. I could get the sabre I think if I drop to one flashback. The compressor chiller is 7.5 for the javelin. Can I get a smaller compressor with the sabre to make the price go down without sacrificing quality? The javelin is pnuematic indexer and heads. The anatol like the Sabre is servo and AC heads.
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You could probably get away with a 3hp compressor for the Sabre but you really should get a 5hp and those are cheap and plentiful.
One thing you will end up absolutely hating on the Volt is not having pneumatic screen clamps, trust me you will hate it. I have pneumatic screen clamps on my press but have 4 clamps that I have to hand tighten for each squeegee and floodbar for each head and it is just as bad as not having pneumatic screen clamps. Another thing that isn't clear but is super important about the Volt is how the squeegee pressure is adjusted and could it be adjusted per head. Unfortunately I think the salesman just dont know how their presses work and cant answer technical questions which is pretty frustrating.
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With the Sabre being AC heads that saves you some air right there.
Though, I'm not sure I'd shrink down. Air is nice for many things around the shop.
I'm with Gerry, I'm not sure I could deal with hand cranking down the clamps. Would you want to go back to hand crank windows in your car? ;)
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With the Sabre being AC heads that saves you some air right there.
Though, I'm not sure I'd shrink down. Air is nice for many things around the shop.
I'm with Gerry, I'm not sure I could deal with hand cranking down the clamps. Would you want to go back to hand crank windows in your car? ;)
Gillian.....thank you for bringing up the air clamp issues again.....it's not an issue anymore ! We have developed quick screen clamp system that doesn't require air.....leave it to Anatol to be an innovator in the industry again !
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You could probably get away with a 3hp compressor for the Sabre but you really should get a 5hp and those are cheap and plentiful.
One thing you will end up absolutely hating on the Volt is not having pneumatic screen clamps, trust me you will hate it. I have pneumatic screen clamps on my press but have 4 clamps that I have to hand tighten for each squeegee and floodbar for each head and it is just as bad as not having pneumatic screen clamps. Another thing that isn't clear but is super important about the Volt is how the squeegee pressure is adjusted and could it be adjusted per head. Unfortunately I think the salesman just dont know how their presses work and cant answer technical questions which is pretty frustrating.
Please you have no idea what the conversation was between the customer and the salesperson. WOW.....I thought this board agreed to be fair. Unless you have first hand knowledge of the conversation, that I don't know about. I am more than happy to answer any serious question you might have.
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Terry, I never took it as he was inferring that YOU didn't know or even only Anatol's sales people didn't know.
I think he was saying that MOST sales people don't know.
Hell, this is the case with even the car industry. Any time I've ever gone to the car lot, I know more about the options and color choices than the sales person... EVERY time!
Glad you got those clamps worked out... how about some details/pictures. 1000 words holmes!
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You could probably get away with a 3hp compressor for the Sabre but you really should get a 5hp and those are cheap and plentiful.
One thing you will end up absolutely hating on the Volt is not having pneumatic screen clamps, trust me you will hate it. I have pneumatic screen clamps on my press but have 4 clamps that I have to hand tighten for each squeegee and floodbar for each head and it is just as bad as not having pneumatic screen clamps. Another thing that isn't clear but is super important about the Volt is how the squeegee pressure is adjusted and could it be adjusted per head. Unfortunately I think the salesman just dont know how their presses work and cant answer technical questions which is pretty frustrating.
Please you have no idea what the conversation was between the customer and the salesperson. WOW.....I thought this board agreed to be fair. Unless you have first hand knowledge of the conversation, that I don't know about. I am more than happy to answer any serious question you might have.
I am going to go off on a tangent here, but hey, as an admin I am allowed!
Terry, that is an amazing response time to a feature request. How long did that take, whole of three weeks? Be careful, few more moves like that and there will be a long waiting line for the presses (which brings with it all kinds of headache!)
Nice job!
pierre
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And it still has not been explained how the squeegee pressure is adjusted and if it can be adjusted per head. If it takes that much to get an answer to a technical question I wonder what would happen if you were really in need of something like yesterday when and if the press goes down.
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You could probably get away with a 3hp compressor for the Sabre but you really should get a 5hp and those are cheap and plentiful.
One thing you will end up absolutely hating on the Volt is not having pneumatic screen clamps, trust me you will hate it. I have pneumatic screen clamps on my press but have 4 clamps that I have to hand tighten for each squeegee and floodbar for each head and it is just as bad as not having pneumatic screen clamps. Another thing that isn't clear but is super important about the Volt is how the squeegee pressure is adjusted and could it be adjusted per head. Unfortunately I think the salesman just dont know how their presses work and cant answer technical questions which is pretty frustrating.
Please you have no idea what the conversation was between the customer and the salesperson. WOW.....I thought this board agreed to be fair. Unless you have first hand knowledge of the conversation, that I don't know about. I am more than happy to answer any serious question you might have.
I am going to go off on a tangent here, but hey, as an admin I am allowed!
Terry, that is an amazing response time to a feature request. How long did that take, whole of three weeks? Be careful, few more moves like that and there will be a long waiting line for the presses (which brings with it all kinds of headache!)
Nice job!
pierre
Took a lot longer than three weeks....We welcome the feedback we get on the boards here....but please, we understand the needs of the printers and listen to our customers feedback too.....it's been in the process for a long time.....we are also in the final stages of getting a Patient on the part.
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And it still has not been explained how the squeegee pressure is adjusted and if it can be adjusted per head. If it takes that much to get an answer to a technical question I wonder what would happen if you were really in need of something like yesterday when and if the press goes down.
please read other post was explained already.
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I read it was as easy as 1 2 3 and the question of whether it can be adjusted per head has been left hanging.
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Even though you think I am against Anatol, I am not, I really like what Anatol offers in products but wish things like questions about products were more clear thats all. I really like that you guys figured out the screen clamping issue.
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Even though you think I am against Anatol, I am not, I really like what Anatol offers in products but wish things like questions about products were more clear thats all. I really like that you guys figured out the screen clamping issue.
easy as 123....1. turn the both chopper cylinders down or up to the desired level....2. clockwise to lower and counter clockwise to raise to desired pressure. 3. test print to make sure you have the correct pressure for your needs.
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Great and this can be done on each head. That clears it up
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Cconcepc- you originally said it was between a Jav Pro and a volt. Has it changed to a volt or a Sabre? If that is the case if it were me, Saber without hesitation. What is being accomplished with their UI and what can be upgraded down the line....
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Thank you all for the advice. What is the difference between the squeege pressure adjustments between the presses? I apologize if it was already posted but could not find in above comments?
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Even though you think I am against Anatol, I am not, I really like what Anatol offers in products but wish things like questions about products were more clear thats all. I really like that you guys figured out the screen clamping issue.
easy as 123....1. turn the both chopper cylinders down or up to the desired level....2. clockwise to lower and counter clockwise to raise to desired pressure. 3. test print to make sure you have the correct pressure for your needs.
Sounds like an adjustment to the print chopper travel limiter, not the pressure. Am I misunderstanding that?
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Pressure on the Sabre is regulated by air and the squeegee pressure on the Volt is regulated by depth of the chopper and adjusted visually as needed for your print.
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If Saber is in the running that would win hands down.
Also consider even though you need a compressor it's only drawing 6 cm, smaller compressor plus there's a bunch of other stuff the compressor can be used for around the shop.
When you look at the electrical draw, generally speaking more amps bigger bill the Saber wins. Volt 10/8 20x20 38a, Saber 10/8 20x20 16a, add a small compressor around 16a, small dryer 1a gives a grand total 33a all single phase. Now granted the actual will vary based on loads.
Like I Sadi I would talk to some owners of both who have auto experience not first time buyers.
Another consideration cost of service and repairs, personally I would rather spend $1.50 replacing seals in four chopper cylinders then a few hundred on a motor and linkage.
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Bink. Have you had hands on experience on both presses? Have you spoken to experienced users? Interesting that you are such an expert to declare a hands down winner.
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I'm with Gerry, I'm not sure I could deal with hand cranking down the clamps. Would you want to go back to hand crank windows in your car? ;)
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Gillian.....thank you for bringing up the air clamp issues again.....it's not an issue anymore ! We have developed quick screen clamp system that doesn't require air.....leave it to Anatol to be an innovator in the industry again !
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Glad to hear that Anatol addressed this. Good job on their part.
Great and this can be done on each head. That clears it up
Gerri, I'm assuming it's like my old Horizon, so it should be able to be done on every head independently.
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Bink. Have you had hands on experience on both presses? Have you spoken to experienced users? Interesting that you are such an expert to declare a hands down winner.
Metalboy, are you a printer? Or a sales rep?
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So it's basically just like I set the pressure on our Gauntlet, just enough pressure to clear the screen and just a tad more and lock em down.
I think with the screen lockdowns this Volt may be ok. Still would like it to go a couple years in a shop and see how it holds up before considering it though.
Metalboy sounds like a sales rep.
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Very perceptive. Am I not allowed on the board? If that is the case, I will happily exit.
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So it's basically just like I set the pressure on our Gauntlet, just enough pressure to clear the screen and just a tad more and lock em down.
I think with the screen lockdowns this Volt may be ok. Still would like it to go a couple years in a shop and see how it holds up before considering it though.
Metalboy sounds like a sales rep.
I like most of what Anatol puts out. They really try to put a lot into it. I'm still uncertain of the Volt. Not saying it's bad, it just didn't do anything for me when I saw it. I would take a Horizon XL or Stratus over it. If I remember right they price in the neighborhood of the Volt. BUt I will say the addition of the screen lockdowns leads you to believe they are looking to address the end users needs. Definitely a good sign from the red team.
Metalboy strikes me as a rep as well (I could be wrong), which I have no issue with. But if he is, I think it would be great if he (and all reps) put the company they rep in their signature.
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Very perceptive. Am I not allowed on the board? If that is the case, I will happily exit.
It's your call weather or not you want to be here, not mine (or Gerry's).
I have been vocal about loving seeing manufacturers, sales reps, suppliers, etc here. I think it is really awesome for both us and them. I also have posted several times asking people to cut Terry some slack.
I do think, as I said in my above post (we posted at the same time) that reps, etc should put who the company they are repping in their signature. I like to know who is supplying opinions or stating facts about equipment (an end user, a manufacturer/rep, or someone who has only seen a picture of the equipment online).
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Apologies for not stating in my sig. Didnt fully consider that when I posted with a bit of irritation over a comments that seem that dont seem fair.
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Apologies for not stating in my sig. Didnt fully consider that when I posted with a bit of irritation over a comments that seem that dont seem fair.
Well, Brian has had/does own two of the most hated presses on this board, yet his opinion is still HIGHLY respected here.
It has something to do with being one of the most mechanically knowledgable ppl on e board as well. He's also fairly unbiased and post basically based on facts at hand.
I was going to buy a used press, have him break it down, ship it, then come down here and set it up. I'm sure he stood to make a nice chunk of change from that job, when I told him I was changing directions and buying a brand new press he had nothing but positive things to say about my decision... Even though it essentially cost him a "job".
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Bottom line with sales reps is the bottom line. Most, not all can just recite what is on a tech sheet. I would prefer sales reps to have a printing background as opposed to a sales background but it seems some companies hire reps with just sales ability.
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Yes actually I did have a chance to play with each but might add the Volt was the little one that used the carrocel to work the mechanical linkage to operate the choppers. Too much going on IMO. I would love to speak to an owner of a full sized Volt but I would like that owner to have had previous presses to make an educated evaluation. Point being if it is the first press ever owned or operated of course it's the bees knees, anything is better then pulling a squeegee. Even better yet let me come down and take one for a test drive, again in a production shop. Let me run the balls off it for a day and see what see does.
How many Volts are past their million production print mark, not dry cycle on a factory floor?
I do know the Workhorse products, even machines made by Progressive and Tuff. I also know the level of service they provide, excellent. I also know the Anatol products and their history of service which is nothing to brag about although they appear to be making an effort to correct this. I not know everything about either, no but no one does.
I simply answered the posters question what my opinion is and the FACTS I considered note worthy. If it was my money it would be a Saber. Quite honestly neither of them are in the top three if it was my choice, and no I'm not a blue baller.
Again IMO there are a lot of extra cost built into the cost of an all electric press to do something much cheaper air can do. If your dropping $50-60k on a press and the $5k for a compressor set is going to break you, you had better reevaluate your plan. On the other hand if your buying a 10 color or greater press chance are you already have the compressor. To be completely honest I think an all electric press is a good idea but the Anatol and other MFG are not the best solution.
Now if your a satisfied owner of an Anatol product I'm glad for you.
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Bink. Guess I would ask ....how many Sabres are past the million mark? Have you ever used either of the operating systems?
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Don't have an answer for that but it's a standard design press using proven technology. As far as the tablet on the Saber it is user friendly. Wouldn't hesitate for a minute to rely on it. Seems to work fine for MHM, Marcod, Workhorse seems to have the confidence needed to further develop it to work with the Falcon.
Aries is a nice system but lacking two functions off the top of my head. First more of a nuance, your setting up an job and the pallets are up. I order to index the pallet lets say to check reg you have to table down then index. It would be much easier to be able to just hit index. Second have a set up function so when the press indexes it table up and stay up. It has some nice functions but nothing more then any other modern press offered on the market today. It really does not matter how it's done, could be a nice fancy touch screen or toggle switches and buttons, to me as long as the press runs I could care less.
Print head controls on each head should be standard instead of dragging the control panel around the press. I know it's standard on larger presses but the smaller ones it's a PIA.
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Bink is one of the most knowledgeable people on this board as far as actual presses go. Doesn't make him god or anything but his opinion carries value with actual knowledge behind it. I think anything he says be it an opinion or fact about a press of any brand should at the very least be heard/considered.
I think starting a press conversation before buying is very logical. Id want to hear all the good and bad about a brand before a large purchase like that.
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Apologies for not stating in my sig. Didnt fully consider that when I posted with a bit of irritation over a comments that seem that dont seem fair.
Now that you have had time to consider it, what's the word metalboy? You have showed up before to police things in the name of anatol, which press(s) do you run on your shop floor? Or which brands do you sell?
I'm guessing you have NO idea to what extent Bink's/Brian's experience is with the technical and mechanical side of anatol machines. It is just easier for you to police things with no experience(please correct me if I am wrong).
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Bottom line is its up to the buyer of a machine to do his or her due diligence when making a purchase. Asking questions and talking to people, actually putting your hands on the machine and comparing apples to apples is the only way to make an educated choice. Don't only ask questions about the equipment, have conversations about the business as a whole. If your talking to a owner of brand A and he says his machine is great and very happy it could be he only puts 10K a year on it or he only prints one color dark on lights. You may have a different customer base, 5 colors on darks or you need to get 1000 garments a day off the machine or maybe discharge. This alone could mean the difference of what you purchase. No different then buying a truck. Joe needs a truck to go to and from work and pick up stuff from the garden center on the weekends. Bill needs a truck to cary 1500 lbs of tools and 1000 lbs of parts from job to job. Joe could get away with a light F150, Bill because of the hundreds of miles each week and the added weight of his tools and parts needs a F350. Both are trucks but Bill needs a heavier duty one to get the same service life as Joe. I could care less what anyone buys it has no effect on me or my business what so ever, I get no compensation if someone buys what ever brand.
To be fare if making a first press purchase and basically placing your livelihood on this investment I would suggest going with proven equipment. Keep in mind this is also your only auto so if issues do arise and the machine goes down you can not generate income until its fixed. Chances are a proven press will be trouble free. Completely different story if this would be an addition to your shop. If this is your second or third machine and it goes down it does not have as much of an impact, you still have the ability to produce.
I honestly am not out to get Anatol. They make a nice machine but so do a lot of other MFG. Its about the whole package, not only the purchase but the after sale support. Chances are you may never have an issue but its nice to know help is there if an issue comes up.
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Just for clarification....metalboy is not a Rep of Anatol or is affiliate with the company.....I don't or we don't play those games.....you should know me well enough by now to know that.
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The Volt uses the same platform as our pneumatic presses. Not a water downed version ! It uses tested technology that we use on our time proven presses like the Vindicator, Trident and Stratus.
We use the PROVEN Aries system in all our presses and have for years. The difference between the Volt and any other servo index and AC head machine is that we found a way to have the pallets go up and down using servo motors. (Trying to keep it really simple) Thus no need for a chiller and compressor. This is proven technology. Unlike other electric press that use less quality products and have many problems over time.....please don't get the Volt confused with other electric presses. The bottom line is that the Saber, even though a good press, is not much different from any Servo driven AC head press, like the Horizon.
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Metalboy sounds like a sales rep.
Very perceptive. Am I not allowed on the board? If that is the case, I will happily exit.
To the contrary, in fact, why don't you stop by our introduction section (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/board,9.0.html)?
As mentioned many times in the past, with very few exceptions, we welcome all reps and manufacturers, suppliers, and of course, those who actually use their stuff!
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Bottom line with sales reps is the bottom line. Most, not all can just recite what is on a tech sheet. I would prefer sales reps to have a printing background as opposed to a sales background but it seems some companies hire reps with just sales ability.
Being a Screen Printer is a ART FORM, a art form I don't personally don't have, but one I respect. I salesperson or consultant doesn't have to be a screen printer to help lead a potential client to the correct decision concerning equipment purchase Just like your account doesn't have to be a screen printer to keep your books and do your taxes. So as I respect your profession please respect mine as a manager and spokesperson for my company. AKA Salesperson
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Terry I totally get and respect your position as I have been in the same shoes as you and trust me people had the same impression with me.
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Bottom line with sales reps is the bottom line. Most, not all can just recite what is on a tech sheet. I would prefer sales reps to have a printing background as opposed to a sales background but it seems some companies hire reps with just sales ability.
Being a Screen Printer is a ART FORM, a art form I don't personally don't have, but one I respect. I salesperson or consultant doesn't have to be a screen printer to help lead a potential client to the correct decision concerning equipment purchase Just like your account doesn't have to be a screen printer to keep your books and do your taxes. So as I respect your profession please respect mine as a manager and spokesperson for my company. AKA Salesperson
I think that the issue with sales folks, is, and it's been touched upon, some don't know a damn thing about their product!
As also mentioned, this is not limited to this industry.
When Uverse was brand new, a salesman assured me that the price he gave me, after finding out just what was involved with my network, was the price it would be. No, I didn't need an additional box rental for each of the five televisions I had at the time. We knew he was likely wrong, and of course, he was. Was he ignorant? Crooked? Who knows?
Somehow, the fates had us become Hermit Crab rescue a few years back during the fad, and it came to no surprise to us at all that after two weeks of ownership of our first couple, we knew more than any salesperson in any shop. Perhaps a factor in crabs being sold to folks who didn't understand the commitment, hence, our new function.
Cable tech support on the phone? Script readers, who generally, once again, know less than us after our history of actually noticing problems with the service, that in some cases was system wide but went unreported.
I have gotten way off the original subject, but the bottom line is, the more that a rep knows about both his product, and its use, the better for all involved!
I would suggest hands-on training for sales folks, much like the hands-on training hopefully offered for new buyers.
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Terry, though I respect your position, your analogy doesn't work.
It's like suggesting I'm good at math so let me do your taxes. My CPA doesn't need to screen print because he doesn't deal with anything related to it. You sell the equipment I have to use, there is a larger need for you to have a better understanding of my day to day challenges.
Your company doesn't call a personal injury attorney when you have to sue someone on the forum for whatever reason you guys feel the need to sue someone over. You get an attorney that knows best about that.
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Terry, though I respect your position, your analogy doesn't work.
It's like suggesting I'm good at math so let me do your taxes. My CPA doesn't need to screen print because he doesn't deal with anything related to it. You sell the equipment I have to use, there is a larger need for you to have a better understanding of my day to day challenges.
Your company doesn't call a personal injury attorney when you have to sue someone on the forum for whatever reason you guys feel the need to sue someone over. You get an attorney that knows best about that.
Kinda' like having a shaved ice guy fixing your computer, or printing your shirts, eh? LOL!
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Terry, though I respect your position, your analogy doesn't work.
It's like suggesting I'm good at math so let me do your taxes. My CPA doesn't need to screen print because he doesn't deal with anything related to it. You sell the equipment I have to use, there is a larger need for you to have a better understanding of my day to day challenges.
Although I will agree it would be wonderful having a seasoned screen printer being a sales rep for an equipment company, I think that is A) wishful thinking B) not always a good thing and C) not needed.
A) Greg Kitson and Rick Roth are probably not going to close their shops to become an equipment sales rep.
B) The printer who becomes a sales rep probably couldn't make it on their own. There is a good chance they may not be that "experienced" person you want to take their advice on.
C) A good sales rep is one who gets you answers to your questions. If he/she doesn't know the answer they don't fake it, they make a couple of calls to find out. They speak to their other customers to compare scenarios, etc. Proper training from a company, and the will to learn from a sales rep can go very far.
Food for thought, the guy who started Progressive was a screen printer.
Personally, I think Brian/Binkspot would make a great sales rep for an equipment company. But the chances of an experienced printer AND tech also becoming a sales rep is not very common.
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Terry, though I respect your position, your analogy doesn't work.
It's like suggesting I'm good at math so let me do your taxes. My CPA doesn't need to screen print because he doesn't deal with anything related to it. You sell the equipment I have to use, there is a larger need for you to have a better understanding of my day to day challenges.
Your company doesn't call a personal injury attorney when you have to sue someone on the forum for whatever reason you guys feel the need to sue someone over. You get an attorney that knows best about that.
Kinda' like having a shaved ice guy fixing your computer, or printing your shirts, eh? LOL!
Very possible.
For me, I do LOTS of research so I'm pretty well versed before I get into any venture.
Like you mentioned and I have mentioned before. EVERY time I've gone to car dealership to look at a car I typically know WAY more info than the sales guy. Does that mean you have to be a race car driver to sell me a car? Nope. But if you have an intimate knowledge of a car then I will be a lot more likely to trust your recommendation than if you show your ass to me and prove I know more than you with my 30 mins on edmunds.com.
To expand on Frog's analogy, would you really want to buy a dog from someone who has never owned a dog? They won't really be able to express the needs of caring for such an animal as well as one that is a dog lover.
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To expand on Frog's analogy, would you really want to buy a dog from someone who has never owned a dog? They won't really be able to express the needs of caring for such an animal as well as one that is a dog lover.
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Does this person have the knowledge of the specifics of the dog breed I'm looking at? Do they work at a place where they have proper access to answer any questions I may call with? I'm not asking this person to be my dog nanny, just to give me the pros and cons of this breed. Medical issues they are prone to, etc.
I brought my dog into an emergency vet a few months ago. I spent a lot of money to save my little guy. I never once asked, does this surgeon own a dog. Just does he know what he's doing?
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Terry, though I respect your position, your analogy doesn't work.
It's like suggesting I'm good at math so let me do your taxes. My CPA doesn't need to screen print because he doesn't deal with anything related to it. You sell the equipment I have to use, there is a larger need for you to have a better understanding of my day to day challenges.
Although I will agree it would be wonderful having a seasoned screen printer being a sales rep for an equipment company, I think that is A) wishful thinking B) not always a good thing and C) not needed.
A) Greg Kitson and Rick Roth are probably not going to close their shops to become an equipment sales rep.
B) The printer who becomes a sales rep probably couldn't make it on their own. There is a good chance they may not be that "experienced" person you want to take their advice on.
C) A good sales rep is one who gets you answers to your questions. If he/she doesn't know the answer they don't fake it, they make a couple of calls to find out. They speak to their other customers to compare scenarios, etc. Proper training from a company, and the will to learn from a sales rep can go very far.
Food for thought, the guy who started Progressive was a screen printer.
Personally, I think Brian/Binkspot would make a great sales rep for an equipment company. But the chances of an experienced printer AND tech also becoming a sales rep is not very common.
I agree completely... But, you are talking top artist at the top of their game.
It is possible that a former screen printer realized he was better at sales than he was in the trenches, but still KNOWS the troubles of a screen printer. I have mixed feelings when my supplier rep tells me he used to run a shop. Part of me thinks like you, "hmm, he couldn't cut it what does he know". But, another, larger part of me says, "this guy understands the struggle first hand".
It's like a separator, you want him to have some sort of hands on in a shop... Even if it was only with his eyes seeing what happens when screen, ink and shirts come together. If he's only sat in his home and never seen a press then you are less comfortable with his knowledge of dot gain and such. Not saying it can't be done. I'm saying what makes you most comfortable. I like hearing a sep artist say, "in my shop we would run this on x mesh blah blah blah" vs here is your channels with pms colors, good luck!
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To expand on Frog's analogy, would you really want to buy a dog from someone who has never owned a dog? They won't really be able to express the needs of caring for such an animal as well as one that is a dog lover.
Does this person have the knowledge of the specifics of the dog breed I'm looking at? Do they work at a place where they have proper access to answer any questions I may call with? I'm not asking this person to be my dog nanny, just to give me the pros and cons of this breed. Medical issues they are prone to, etc.
I brought my dog into an emergency vet a few months ago. I spent a lot of money to save my little guy. I never once asked, does this surgeon own a dog. Just does he know what he's doing?
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All good points, I just said it would make you more comfortable to know how this sales guy knows dogs.
Again, surgeon/vet = to CPA. You also wouldn't bring your dog to ENT though they have a good understanding of the organs in your dogs body.
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Terry, though I respect your position, your analogy doesn't work.
It's like suggesting I'm good at math so let me do your taxes. My CPA doesn't need to screen print because he doesn't deal with anything related to it. You sell the equipment I have to use, there is a larger need for you to have a better understanding of my day to day challenges.
Although I will agree it would be wonderful having a seasoned screen printer being a sales rep for an equipment company, I think that is A) wishful thinking B) not always a good thing and C) not needed.
A) Greg Kitson and Rick Roth are probably not going to close their shops to become an equipment sales rep.
B) The printer who becomes a sales rep probably couldn't make it on their own. There is a good chance they may not be that "experienced" person you want to take their advice on.
C) A good sales rep is one who gets you answers to your questions. If he/she doesn't know the answer they don't fake it, they make a couple of calls to find out. They speak to their other customers to compare scenarios, etc. Proper training from a company, and the will to learn from a sales rep can go very far.
Food for thought, the guy who started Progressive was a screen printer.
Personally, I think Brian/Binkspot would make a great sales rep for an equipment company. But the chances of an experienced printer AND tech also becoming a sales rep is not very common.
I agree completely... But, you are talking top artist at the top of their game.
It is possible that a former screen printer realized he was better at sales than he was in the trenches, but still KNOWS the troubles of a screen printer. I have mixed feelings when my supplier rep tells me he used to run a shop. Part of me thinks like you, "hmm, he couldn't cut it what does he know". But, another, larger part of me says, "this guy understands the struggle first hand".
It's like a separator, you want him to have some sort of hands on in a shop... Even if it was only with his eyes seeing what happens when screen, ink and shirts come together. If he's only sat in his home and never seen a press then you are less comfortable with his knowledge of dot gain and such. Not saying it can't be done. I'm saying what makes you most comfortable. I like hearing a sep artist say, "in my shop we would run this on x mesh blah blah blah" vs here is your channels with pms colors, good luck!
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To me, this is more important with a supplier than a equipment rep. And this is probably why most of us are part of this forum. I can post a question or problem I'm having running Wilflex super genesis red, and someone here has probably had this happen and found a solution. With a sales rep at a supply company, did they really print? When did the last print? And they are often giving you the manufacturers recommended tips for usage.
Anytime a sales rep gives me advice I always try to double check it here. Even if just searching the archives. Bottom line, to me anyways, they are not going to come into my shop and print the job for me. They are not coming in and giving me in person training. As long as they can get me the right answer I'm as happy as can be. If all I have to do is call them and then they will make 5 calls and call me back in a resonable time, with the right answer, that is more than I could ask for.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of bad sales reps out there. This is why I order ALL of my supplies, pay shipping, and wait an extra couple of days to get them instead of using the place that is 30 minutes from me.
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Very true Shane.
It's very much like going to the doctor... Is he giving you what works best or just what the pharmacy rep got on her knees for him to sell? But if that doctor says, "I just had that issue, I used this and man it worked better than I expected!" I feel much more confident in his recommendation.
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I agree completely... But, you are talking top artist at the top of their game.
It is possible that a former screen printer realized he was better at sales than he was in the trenches, but still KNOWS the troubles of a screen printer. I have mixed feelings when my supplier rep tells me he used to run a shop. Part of me thinks like you, "hmm, he couldn't cut it what does he know". But, another, larger part of me says, "this guy understands the struggle first hand".
It's like a separator, you want him to have some sort of hands on in a shop... Even if it was only with his eyes seeing what happens when screen, ink and shirts come together. If he's only sat in his home and never seen a press then you are less comfortable with his knowledge of dot gain and such. Not saying it can't be done. I'm saying what makes you most comfortable. I like hearing a sep artist say, "in my shop we would run this on x mesh blah blah blah" vs here is your channels with pms colors, good luck!
I like this analogy, me being an that artist that can't wait to print that complicated SEP I just did :-)
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Just for clarification....metalboy is not a Rep of Anatol or is affiliate with the company.....I don't or we don't play those games.....you should know me well enough by now to know that.
My humble apologies! Without my knowledge or approval Metalboy came on here and made comments. I am sorry I claimed he wasn't a employee of the company. Sorry for the mistake and sorry he didn't identify himself as an employee.
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Just for clarification....metalboy is not a Rep of Anatol or is affiliate with the company.....I don't or we don't play those games.....you should know me well enough by now to know that.
My humble apologies! Without my knowledge or approval Metalboy came on here and made comments. I am sorry I claimed he wasn't a employee of the company. Sorry for the mistake and sorry he didn't identify himself as an employee.
You can see how a company can get a bad rap if they come on here and don't state who they are and then start conversations like he did.
At least it was pretty obvious who you were with when you signed up. ;)
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Just for clarification....metalboy is not a Rep of Anatol or is affiliate with the company.....I don't or we don't play those games.....you should know me well enough by now to know that.
My humble apologies! Without my knowledge or approval Metalboy came on here and made comments. I am sorry I claimed he wasn't a employee of the company. Sorry for the mistake and sorry he didn't identify himself as an employee.
You can see how a company can get a bad rap if they come on here and don't state who they are and then start conversations like he did.
At least it was pretty obvious who you were with when you signed up. ;)
Wait, what did I miss?! Does metalboy work for anatol? Or did he, and took a hiatus to run night clubs?
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Just for clarification....metalboy is not a Rep of Anatol or is affiliate with the company.....I don't or we don't play those games.....you should know me well enough by now to know that.
My humble apologies! Without my knowledge or approval Metalboy came on here and made comments. I am sorry I claimed he wasn't a employee of the company. Sorry for the mistake and sorry he didn't identify himself as an employee.
You can see how a company can get a bad rap if they come on here and don't state who they are and then start conversations like he did.
At least it was pretty obvious who you were with when you signed up. ;)
Kev and all, I think this comment was not necessary as the ramifications are obvious without having to point them out. Let's cut them some slack as they try to move forward. Yes, we would normally pile on and make those remarks if it was anybody else, but at this point Terry is still a guest here so let's extend that courtesy to him. As soon as he puts the slippers on, pile on as you wish!
pierre
p.s. we all make mistakes and it is not obvious from the name who the poster is. Terry did not know who ti was and once he found out, he let us know. What else can we ask for?
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Arrrrrg, Ill be good.
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I wasn't even saying that Terry was being "slick" about it or anything.
I was simply helping Terry understand that when people "slide" in unannounced and start drama (why didn't you step on his toes when he took a shot at Brian?) it can make the company look bad.
Don't mistake my post for trying to cause drama when I was simply helping Terry understand why he has met what little hostility he has met here.
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Just for clarification....metalboy is not a Rep of Anatol or is affiliate with the company.....I don't or we don't play those games.....you should know me well enough by now to know that.
My humble apologies! Without my knowledge or approval Metalboy came on here and made comments. I am sorry I claimed he wasn't a employee of the company. Sorry for the mistake and sorry he didn't identify himself as an employee.
Ducks...line em up in a row already Jesus.
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Feel I should comment. As I already posted, I interjected without thinking about disclosure. As soon as someone asked if I was a rep....I said yes...and apologized for jumping in. What else can I do to make amends? There is no coverup here with Anatol or Terry. Just my error in judgement.
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You have technically never said WHO you are a rep for.
It's been implied that it's Anatol... but I honestly don't like leaving things "understood", I rather black and white when it can be.
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Ah...ok. Let me clarify. I am a sales manager for Anatol direct. I work for Terry. There was no intent to be deceptive. I posted last night and Terry had no idea. I had no idea such a firestorm would erupt. But I'll admit that the suggestion that I know nothing about our equipment was taken too personally.
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I just feel like it's more honest.
You come out and say "I work for brand X and I disagree with this statement because...." At least we know where you are coming from. It doesn't immediately make your point less valid but it does shed light on the direction you are coming from.
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How does the Volts choppers operate? What makes them chop?
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Prosp. Well..the Volt Is all electric..so..the choppers are AC....in a very simple answer. Are you looking for more specifics?
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I never seen one operate and im just going off of what I have heard. And that there is a bunch of linkage and gears to make it work like the Brown press where the choppers are mechanically driven by chains, gears, linkage etc. Just trying to figure out how this thing operates. Videos would be really helpful without all the music that most people put into them.
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It's a motor whith what appears to be a gear box mounted at the back of each head which is connected to a long shaft that when rotated moves the choppers up and down. If you look at the brochure you can see the mechanics.
Little ones use the carrocel rasing to move the linkage and work the choppers.
Choppers are adjusted the same as other presses using the knobs as stops.
We do need a like button on here.
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Just trying to figure out how this thing operates. Videos would be really helpful without all the music that most people put into them.
(http://b.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/fastcompany/imagecache/inline-large/inline/2013/11/3021307-inline-fb-likebutton-printpackaging.jpg)
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Shanarchy, you should be able to get free shipping on orders over a certain amount and within two business days in the NE.
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Do you know Ross from RS Imprints ? has been at our facility for an up close. Maybe he can give more information
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We can get some video out with closeups. Honestly, you can't compare the Volt to other electric presses on the market
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My personal opinion is that this forum would be better if all members / posters were compelled to provide a complete profile. With that said, I understand that many printers are reluctant to identify themselves because of their concern with being spammed by suppliers chasing them for business. Maybe the solution is to have different requirements and expectations for industry suppliers, versus printer members.
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I would think that except for the rarely occasional shill, most suppliers, manufacturers, and other industry reps would be happy and proud to boast of their affiliations.
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We can get some video out with closeups. Honestly, you can't compare the Volt to other electric presses on the market
That is why getting as much info out about how it operates is important. You don't want the end users to make assumptions. So videos with explanations instead of music would be great!
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Pros. Fyi. There are several Volt owners in Cali. Obviously...its a huge state....so they might not be close. To me....interaction with printers is an information sharing process. Everyday, literally...I learn something new and interesting and occasionally I tell a printer something about Anatol presses that they didnt know. I have no desire to sell them something they dont need or want. I truly want to work with them to find a solution to improve their business. I will never have your printing knowledge, but it really has been a pleasure to work in the industry and maybe add something.
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Thanks Metal, what cities in Cali have them?
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Terry or I can get back with you on Monday. It's not my territory....so I dont have details offhand.
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Fyi. My name is Mark and I am Anatol sales manager for several eastern states.
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We can get some video out with closeups. Honestly, you can't compare the Volt to other electric presses on the market
That is why getting as much info out about how it operates is important. You don't want the end users to make assumptions. So videos with explanations instead of music would be great!
Exactly!
I want a BRZ, but it's not what they told me about it on some spec sheet or that it's easy as 1,2,3 to drive... It is videos like this that make me want the car.
Driving Sports TV - 2013 Subaru BRZ Drifting Across Britain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUPo4WzJnT8#ws)
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Shanarchy, you should be able to get free shipping on orders over a certain amount and within two business days in the NE.
I think I get half price on shipping over $X. Shipping is two days. It's fair.
My personal opinion is that this forum would be better if all members / posters were compelled to provide a complete profile. With that said, I understand that many printers are reluctant to identify themselves because of their concern with being spammed by suppliers chasing them for business. Maybe the solution is to have different requirements and expectations for industry suppliers, versus printer members.
Peter, I couldn't agree more. I think your company name in the signature is great. Now I know when pwalsh posts something he's the Nazdar guy. I have to imagine it can only help to get business down the line.
Fyi. My name is Mark and I am Anatol sales manager for several eastern states.
Mark, thanks for the intro. I'm hoping to see the growing Anatol presence here to be a positive for both your company and this forum.
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Mark, thanks for the intro. I'm hoping to see the growing Anatol presence here to be a positive for both your company and this forum.
100% agree!
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Ah...ok. Let me clarify. I am a sales manager for Anatol direct. I work for Terry. There was no intent to be deceptive. I posted last night and Terry had no idea. I had no idea such a firestorm would erupt. But I'll admit that the suggestion that I know nothing about our equipment was taken too personally.
This sorta illustrates the disconnect at or with Anatol. They don't even know what their own people are doing and they are answering as if they were 100% sure you were not with Anatol. Which means he spoke first checked later. Now remove this forum as the subject at hand and insert your press.
I say this again on the notion id like to see Anatol improve their image/product/service.
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My personal opinion is that this forum would be better if all members / posters were compelled to provide a complete profile. With that said, I understand that many printers are reluctant to identify themselves because of their concern with being spammed by suppliers chasing them for business. Maybe the solution is to have different requirements and expectations for industry suppliers, versus printer members.
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We can get some video out with closeups. Honestly, you can't compare the Volt to other electric presses on the market
That is why getting as much info out about how it operates is important. You don't want the end users to make assumptions. So videos with explanations instead of music would be great!
Exactly!
I want a BRZ, but it's not what they told me about it on some spec sheet or that it's easy as 1,2,3 to drive... It is videos like this that make me want the car.
Driving Sports TV - 2013 Subaru BRZ Drifting Across Britain ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUPo4WzJnT8#ws[/url])
Jesus I watched that whole thing for a reason to like that car.
I got nothing.
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And nothing you could show me would give me a reason to desire to own a low rider.
That video was a metaphor... You show me what he car will do while talking about it, not just tell me in text that it's "nice" and not elaborate on why. "You should get this sports car, it's nice". Why is that? "Well it gets 26 mpg" umm, ok, but that's not telling me anything.
Just go drive your vette man, I don't think you'll get it. :-p
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And nothing you could show me would give me a reason to desire to own a low rider.
That video was a metaphor... You show me what he car will do while talking about it, not just tell me in text that it's "nice" and not elaborate on why. "You should get this sports car, it's nice". Why is that? "Well it gets 26 mpg" umm, ok, but that's not telling me anything.
Just go drive your vette man, I don't think you'll get it. :-p
I get your metaphor, sorry for also watching said video and it being boring as hell. This board never gets off topic.
This has nothing to do with my corvette, not sure what your trying to accomplish there.
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They are different beast, if a vette appeals to you it is very possible that a brz won't.
Honestly that was just the first random brz video I found.
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They are different beast, if a vette appeals to you it is very possible that a brz won't.
Honestly that was just the first random brz video I found.
Did you watch it?
Vettes barely appeal to me. I will get the Z06 next, then a Ferrari. These are stepping stones for me. Once you drive exotics you look at "sports cars" very different.
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I'm not even gonna begin to work with that flawed logic... Stepping stones? Cars are not investments... They are liabilities.
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I'm not even gonna begin to work with that flawed logic... Stepping stones? Cars are not investments... They are liabilities.
So, when this new tangent gets split, what'll it be? Cars as penis extensions, or billboards advertising financial status?
btw, I just got back from a trip to my hometown of Hollywood CA, so the subject is especially fresh in my mind.
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I'm not even gonna begin to work with that flawed logic... Stepping stones? Cars are not investments... They are liabilities.
I said it was a stepping stone, meaning I bought a Vette, going to buy a Z06 probably next year, then a Ferrari likely 458, just a evolution to the car I really want which wouldn't be super wise to buy right now even though I could. Has nothing to do with an investment. I mean wow way to take it way off track, I certainly didn't suggest it was a investment. Ive never looked at cars as a investment...
Did you watch that terrible video you posted?
I'm not even gonna begin to work with that flawed logic... Stepping stones? Cars are not investments... They are liabilities.
So, when this new tangent gets split, what'll it be? Cars as penis extensions, or billboards advertising financial status?
For some people that's what it is to them. Certainly not people that really just enjoy driving cars hard and appreciate the technology advancing what is possible in a road car. Nothing like a hour or so of cornering in the hills.... nobody out there to show off to ;)
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The bottom line is that the Saber, even though a good press, is not much different from any Servo driven AC head press, like the Horizon.
The Sabre has a PLC machine control, individual print head controls and squeegee pressure regulators at each head. Did you add these features to the Horizon?
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I have own a shop with two Manuel Presses and looking to buy an Automatic. I was set on the Javelin Pro 6/8 with chopper system, but then the Anatol rep came back with an 8/10 volt for the same price. They are both package deals with two flashes, dryer, exposure unit, ect. I have seen a Jaevlin and think it's a great value and like the flashback. The Anatol has AC heads and servo, but is all electric. I have not seem the volt in Person and not sure about an all electric press. The Anatol seems like the better deal. Does anyone have a Volt or Javelin and have any input? Would there be any quality downside to the All electric press?
The Javelin is one of the longest running production models in the market. There are thousands of them printing every day. The Javelin design is simple to use and easy to maintain. The simple design allows us to use high quality components to insure reliability. The heavy duty metal work holds the machine steady after the index for accurate registration. The Javelin is also supported by the strongest dealer network in the industry.
Good luck in your search. Let me know if I can help.
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The bottom line is that the Saber, even though a good press, is not much different from any Servo driven AC head press, like the Horizon.
The Sabre has a PLC machine control, individual print head controls and squeegee pressure regulators at each head. Did you add these features to the Horizon?
Did you make an all Electric press yet? Last I heard you still need a compressor and a chiller on the Saber.
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The bottom line is that the Saber, even though a good press, is not much different from any Servo driven AC head press, like the Horizon.
The Sabre has a PLC machine control, individual print head controls and squeegee pressure regulators at each head. Did you add these features to the Horizon?
Did you make an all Electric press yet? Last I heard you still need a compressor and a chiller on the Saber.
You didn't answer his question. You are not really that good at this PR thing.
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The bottom line is that the Saber, even though a good press, is not much different from any Servo driven AC head press, like the Horizon.
The Sabre has a PLC machine control, individual print head controls and squeegee pressure regulators at each head. Did you add these features to the Horizon?
Did you make an all Electric press yet? Last I heard you still need a compressor and a chiller on the Saber.
You didn't answer his question. You are not really that good at this PR thing.
This is the exact behavior that made me write off SRoque from my list of potential presses when I upgrade in the coming months. A sales rep's entire job should be answering the questions and addressing the concerns of any and all potential customers. This tit for tat competitor bashing and rebuttal mentality is really unappealing to someone like me, a potential customer.
It's pretty simple, just answer the questions you're being asked directly and as thoroughly as possible. Link a video or literature, when relevant. Customers want hard information, not personal opinions/commentary. That's my two cents.
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The bottom line is that the Saber, even though a good press, is not much different from any Servo driven AC head press, like the Horizon.
The Sabre has a PLC machine control, individual print head controls and squeegee pressure regulators at each head. Did you add these features to the Horizon?
Did you make an all Electric press yet? Last I heard you still need a compressor and a chiller on the Saber.
You didn't answer his question. You are not really that good at this PR thing.
This is the exact behavior that made me write off SRoque from my list of potential presses when I upgrade in the coming months. A sales rep's entire job should be answering the questions and addressing the concerns of any and all potential customers. This tit for tat competitor bashing and rebuttal mentality is really unappealing to someone like me, a potential customer.
It's pretty simple, just answer the questions you're being asked directly and as thoroughly as possible. Link a video or literature, when relevant. Customers want hard information, not personal opinions/commentary. That's my two cents.
For the record, sRoque has nothing to do with the discussion going on above.
BTW, Terry, you compared the Sabre to the Horizon, then when he asks about the Horizon, you talk about the Volt?
You guys get all pissy with me because I hold this guy's feet to the fire... but F*CK, someone has to!
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You guys get all pissy with me because I hold this guy's feet to the fire... but F*CK, someone has to!
Not really, since you have absolutely no interest in Anatol, and you're unhappy with Terry, you could just ignore his posts or for that matter, any posts dealing with these machines.
You administer hotfeet because you want to, not because you have to.
Been there, done that, made a few shirts along the way.
And no, I don't get off on the back and forth snipes and swipes that seem to be the fate and forte of some reps on forums either. Popcorn with any butter and keyboards don't mix.
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The bottom line is that the Saber, even though a good press, is not much different from any Servo driven AC head press, like the Horizon.
The Sabre has a PLC machine control, individual print head controls and squeegee pressure regulators at each head. Did you add these features to the Horizon?
Did you make an all Electric press yet? Last I heard you still need a compressor and a chiller on the Saber.
You didn't answer his question. You are not really that good at this PR thing.
This is the exact behavior that made me write off SRoque from my list of potential presses when I upgrade in the coming months. A sales rep's entire job should be answering the questions and addressing the concerns of any and all potential customers. This tit for tat competitor bashing and rebuttal mentality is really unappealing to someone like me, a potential customer.
It's pretty simple, just answer the questions you're being asked directly and as thoroughly as possible. Link a video or literature, when relevant. Customers want hard information, not personal opinions/commentary. That's my two cents.
For the record, sRoque has nothing to do with the discussion going on above.
BTW, Terry, you compared the Sabre to the Horizon, then when he asks about the Horizon, you talk about the Volt?
You guys get all pissy with me because I hold this guy's feet to the fire... but F*CK, someone has to!
FYI Sroque does a lot of bashing in other social media. Like Instagram for example.
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You guys get all pissy with me because I hold this guy's feet to the fire... but F*CK, someone has to!
Not really, since you have absolutely no interest in Anatol, and you're unhappy with Terry, you could just ignore his posts or for that matter, any posts dealing with these machines.
You administer hotfeet because you want to, not because you have to.
Been there, done that, made a few shirts along the way.
And no, I don't get off on the back and forth snipes and swipes that seem to be the fate and forte of some reps on forums either. Popcorn with any butter and keyboards don't mix.
I mean this in the most polite way.
Andy, you have no clue where I stand.
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The bottom line is that the Saber, even though a good press, is not much different from any Servo driven AC head press, like the Horizon.
The Sabre has a PLC machine control, individual print head controls and squeegee pressure regulators at each head. Did you add these features to the Horizon?
Did you make an all Electric press yet? Last I heard you still need a compressor and a chiller on the Saber.
You didn't answer his question. You are not really that good at this PR thing.
This is the exact behavior that made me write off SRoque from my list of potential presses when I upgrade in the coming months. A sales rep's entire job should be answering the questions and addressing the concerns of any and all potential customers. This tit for tat competitor bashing and rebuttal mentality is really unappealing to someone like me, a potential customer.
It's pretty simple, just answer the questions you're being asked directly and as thoroughly as possible. Link a video or literature, when relevant. Customers want hard information, not personal opinions/commentary. That's my two cents.
For the record, sRoque has nothing to do with the discussion going on above.
BTW, Terry, you compared the Sabre to the Horizon, then when he asks about the Horizon, you talk about the Volt?
You guys get all pissy with me because I hold this guy's feet to the fire... but F*CK, someone has to!
Or you can let Paul/Baron handle himself. He's a big boy, and is knowledged with both Anatol and Workhorse. If two competitive reps want to debate each other, we don't need to all pick a side and pile on. In the end nothing positive will come out of it. And by we I mean all of us, not just you.
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You just proved my point though Shane.
The one thing that I feel lacks in presidential debates is fact checking and keeping things on point. I don't know when Paul will be back on, but I'm on now and I want to see the conversation sticking to acts and not spinning to what makes sense for that particulars party's interest. I'd hold Paul (and have) to the same standard... And trust me, Paul and I are just fine these days.
Gotta keep em honest!
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Company representatives on public forums can be a bad thing for brands. They really need to take a step back before they hit the submit post button. Some of you guys may know them really well but most don't, and these kinds of exchanges can leave a bad taste in someones mouth on a brand that may not deserve it. Just sayin'
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Personally, I prefer to invest my time and energy in training ops than debating bells and buttons. The press is a tool. Of course better tools are capable of producing better quality with improved throughput but only in the right hands.
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Company representatives on public forums can be a bad thing for brands. They really need to take a step back before they hit the submit post button. Some of you guys may know them really well but most don't, and these kinds of exchanges can leave a bad taste in someones mouth on a brand that may not deserve it. Just sayin'
Very few posts can not stand a little extra time taken to scrutinize whether an emotional response may leave an unwanted lasting bad impression on more folks than the poster was even specifically addressing.
I cannot tell you how many times I have had to remind myself of this very rule, and how many times I have rethought the wisdom of clicking "post", and still, I'm sure have earned the title of"ass" to many.