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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: 1964GN on August 22, 2014, 03:50:45 PM
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Our shop has been printing since early 2006. We currently have a 8c Diamondback and a 4c manual and are looking to increase capacity as well as speed to keep up with our growth. We will be keeping the Diamondback, selling the manual, and adding a NEW 12c auto.
We have it down to MHM, S-Roque and M&R and are looking for observations and opinions from those that have some experience with these guys and their presses, not just the sales pitch's but the real world stuff.
Given these three choices for a 12c, what would you choose and why? (user friendly, fast set-ups, best service, best built, etc, etc.)
I know you may have questions but let's start here.
Thanks!
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Our shop has been printing since early 2006. We currently have a 8c Diamondback and a 4c manual and are looking to increase capacity as well as speed to keep up with our growth. We will be keeping the Diamondback, selling the manual, and adding a NEW 12c auto.
We have it down to MHM, S-Roque and M&R and are looking for observations and opinions from those that have some experience with these guys and their presses, not just the sales pitch's but the real world stuff.
Given these three choices for a 12c, what would you choose and why? (user friendly, fast set-ups, best service, best built, etc, etc.)
I know you may have questions but let's start here.
Thanks!
Ill take my M&R CHIIID every time. We have a 12 color and its built like a tank, packed with technology, backed by the best service and support that is out there in the screen printing world.
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i really want to see the new CH3D. I know it pained Sonny to admit that it's a pretty spectacular press.
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/50898675.jpg)
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i really want to see the new CH3D. I know it pained Sonny to admit that it's a pretty spectacular press.
Come see it.
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i really want to see the new CH3D. I know it pained Sonny to admit that it's a pretty spectacular press.
Come up here and check out mine. That was mine Sonny got to check out.
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If you're stuck on wanting a press which has a table that doesn't go up and down but screens that go down to the table, dem be's the options. If you're open to the table going up, you may want to check out the RPM.
In context of mhm vs m&r vs sroque, you'd do best to speak with one who has exposure to all 3 models you're considering. If I'm not mistaken, jsheridan has had experience with m&r and mhm - I'd heed advice from that person before someone who only knows one brand. Having said that, I don't think you'll go wrong with any of those brands, so that should provide some comfort that you won't make a mistake in your purchase.
Having said that, since you have a diamondback already, you have squeegees, pallets etc. that are all compatible with another m&r purchase - a big plus to be sure.
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What models of each brand are you looking at? Are you compering a YOU, CHIIID and a AC 4000? ;D
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([url]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/50898675.jpg[/url])
(http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53215969.jpg)
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What models of each brand are you looking at? Are you compering a YOU, CHIIID and a AC 4000? ;D
You, Gauntlet (smaller version of the Challenger III being introduced in Vegas), S-Type Extreme
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([url]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/50898675.jpg[/url])
([url]http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53215969.jpg[/url])
lol. good one.
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All three are excellent choices but you already have the Dback and are used to it and have accessories like pallets, maybe triloc that will fit on a new M&R. To me unless you want to retool at this point the choice is clear, the M&R.
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Bink has a very good point. Unless you have a beef with M&R or a reason to switch, it makes the most sense to keep it all uniform.
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([url]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/50898675.jpg[/url])
([url]http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53215969.jpg[/url])
(http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/2690538.jpg)
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I was hoping you would dig that up. ;)
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([url]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/50898675.jpg[/url])
([url]http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53215969.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/2690538.jpg[/url])
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1964.
Here is some video threads on some of the features of the presses. It will help if you can see them in person.
These are the AUTO WARS so far
AUTO WARS 1 - Micro Registration
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2830.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2830.0.html)
AUTO WARS 2 - Screen Holders
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2868.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2868.0.html)
AUTO WARS 3 - Squeegees & Flood Bars
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2914.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2914.0.html)
AUTO WARS 4 - Pallets
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,3018.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,3018.0.html)
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You should be looking at the ECO, not the YOU. That is going to be more in line with the other 2 presses you are considering. That's my opinion, but seems like the G3 would make the most sense in you situation unless its a crap load more expensive than the other 2
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In context of mhm vs m&r vs sroque, you'd do best to speak with one who has exposure to all 3 models you're considering. If I'm not mistaken, jsheridan has had experience with m&r and mhm - I'd heed advice from that person before someone who only knows one brand. Having said that, I don't think you'll go wrong with any of those brands, so that should provide some comfort that you won't make a mistake in your purchase.
20+ years spinning the blue wheels and other assorted brands
2 Years on MHM
I have a friend who owns the only S-roque in diego.
Each brand does something a little different, what they all do the same is print t-shirts at a ridiculous rate.
You're standing at the end of the dryer, what do you want to see coming down the belt and how much are you willing to spend to get what you want.
How would you then base your decision.
You already have a DB, so you can run a button screen in there as it has side holders, but the boys at blue will make sure that never happens, just by posting this you opened the door, and once the vampire is invited in.. well you know.
Enjoy your new gauntlet, just be sure to sweeten the deal and have them throw in two quarts flashes, you'll need them for those beautiful 10 color simm jobs on black shirts.
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Thanks to those that have provided real feedback.
The arguments for staying with M&R are valid but we don't want to pigeonhole ourselves to one brand if the other options provide the addition advanced features we are looking for. So far, if we don't go with M$R, the difference in price would buy a hell of a lot of additional accessories. We have no problem investing in another brand if need be. They are still in the running but slowly slipping backwards the more we look at the other options.
What attracts us to the other brands are the ease/accuracy of set up/registration, no unlock micos, ease of access to screens and squeegees (lifting heads etc.), off contacts per head, ease of pallet change, among other things.
Thanks again for all of your constructive input so far, even the sarcastic comments are fun to read :-)
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Pretty sure the G3 will have off contact per head, like the CH3.
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Time Savings MHM vs. M&R and Anatol Print Procedures
Steps needed to run a print
1) Registration
2) Squeegee and Floodbar Installation
3) Print Stroke Adjustment
4) Print Parameters
5) Control Panel Operation
6) Print Parameter Documentation
7) Platen Changeover
8) Print Breakdown
Registration:
1) Pre Press
2) On Press
Pre Press:
1) MHM Film Positioning Unit (FPU)
2) M&R Tri Lock
3) Pin Registration System
On Press:
1) Inserting Screens on Press
2) Registering Screens
A. MHM
B. M&R
C. Anatol
Squeegee and Floodbar Installation
1) MHM
2) M&R
3) Anatol
Print Stroke Adjustment
1) MHM
2) M&R
3) Anatol
Print Parameters
1) MHM
2) M&R
3) Anatol
Machine Operation
1) MHM
2) M&R
3) Anatol
Print Parameter Documentation
1) MHM
2) M&R
3) Anatol
Platen Changeover
1) MHM
2) M&R
3) Anatol
Print Breakdown
1) MHM
2) M&R
3) Anatol
Registration Pre Press
FPU vs. Tri Lock and Pin Registration
The main differences between the MHM FPU and the other two are the lack of carrier sheets and putting the film on the screen and laying the screen on the film.
The cost savings are twofold. There is no need to buy carrier sheets or to have to buy a bigger exposure unit to hold the Registration frames which in turn hold the screens in the exposure unit. This means we can use normal folders to catalog our art as we have no carrier sheets. Also, we never run out of carrier sheets as we do not use them. The added dimensions of the other systems units that must be on your glass of your exposure unit may necessitate a bigger unit than you already have.
The benefit of pre registration is to decrease the registration part of set up times.
With this said, the MHM FPU is far superior to the others in 4 ways. They are: 1. No carrier sheets. 2. Better registration because we place each piece of film directly ON the screen and are thus insured of a tighter registration. 3. We can shoot as many screens at once that our exposure unit will hold. 4. Our FPU holds the screen the EXCACT same way our presses hold the screen.
Registration on Press
FPU vs. Tri Lock and Pin Registration
This is where the FPU will save you money as there are only 4 steps used on press as opposed to 15 – 18 steps used on press by our competitors.
MHM FPU steps are:
1. Place screens in press
2. Put squeegees, floodbars, and inks in screens
3. Run strike off and micro IF necessary
4. Begin run
M&R Tri Lock steps are:
1. Place screens in heads
2. Remove a platen from press
3. Put Tri-Lock platen on press
4. Free wheel or index Tri-Lock platen to first screen
5. Lock table
6. Raise table
7. Pull screen against the stops on Tri-Lock
8. Lock screen
9. Lower table
10. Free wheel or index Tri-Lock platen to next screen
11. Repeat steps 5-10 for all remaining screens
12. Remove Tri-Lock platen
13. Replace platen removed in step 2
14. Add squeegees, floodbars and inks
15. Print sample shirt
16. Micro registration if necessary
17. Begin run
Anatol with Pin Registration steps are:
1. Place screens in heads
2. Engage Pin Registration bars by swinging them out and locking them into position on the platen they are installed on
3. Free wheel or index platen to first screen
4. Lock table
5. Raise table
6. Pull screen to pins and hold
7. Lock screen
8. Lower table
9. Free wheel or index registration platen to next screen
10. Repeat steps 4 – 9
11. Add squeegees, floodbars and inks
12. Return Pin Registration bars to their stowed position
13. Print sample shirt
14. Micro registration if necessary
15. Begin run
The total time savings on an average MHM 6 color setup is 20 minutes. At 10 shirts a minute production that would mean that 200 shirts would be printed before the 1st shirt is even loaded on the M&R or the Anatol. This means that 20 minutes of labor is now being used to make money instead of cost money.
Squeegee and Floodbar Installation
The main difference in this step is that the M&R uses Optional Air Locks and Anatol uses a Quick Snap system.
MHM uses a Pull Pin system which ensures a quicker install time than an M&R without the Optional Air Locks and a less complicated method than M&R with the Optional Air Locks.
MHM’s system is also easier than the Anatol Quick Snap system as it does not require holding the squeegee or floodbar at an angle and then snapping them in.
The average time savings on a 6 color job is approximately 6 minutes; which equates to 60 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
Print stroke Adjustment
The MHM stroke adjustment simply requires the user to slide a bar to the desired length without having to release locking mechanisms for on our competitor’s presses.
The average time savings on a 6 color job is 3 minutes; which equates to 30 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
Print Parameters
Squeegee and Floodbar angle adjustment.
M&R and Anatol require you to loosen a locking mechanism on both sides of the squeegee and floodbar, adjust the angle and then relock the mechanisms.
The MHM E Type requires you to loosen a locking mechanism on 1 side only, set the angle and retighten the mechanism.
The MHM S Type and 4000 simply requires you to move a lever to the desired angles with no unlocking or locking a mechanism.
The average time savings on a 6 color job is 4-6 minutes; which equates to 40 - 60 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
Squeegee and Floodbar pressure adjustment.
There is no real initial time savings on initial set ups on this feature but there is a time savings on reset ups as explained in the Documentation section.
Machine Operation
The main differences between MHM and M&R and Anatol with respect to operation of the press are the substantial fewer steps needed to do the things you do on most prints.
These include sample prints, operations that require you to be at the control panel, steps to clean lint or tape pin holes, and steps to change flash times during the run.
To print a sample shirt on a M&R requires the press to be set in sample mode by engaging a switch, loading a shirt, and flipping a switch to print start and the print finish once the shirt indexes.
To print a sample shirt on the Anatol in the quickest manner you have to load a shirt, index the shirt to the last empty print station before a color, tell the machine a shirt is there by activating the shirt indicator, press start, and turn off shirts as their indicators light up on the control panel and finally press stop once the sample shirt is finished.
To print a sample shirt on the MHM simply indicate the number of samples you want and press Sample on the control panel.
The average time savings on a 6 color job is 1 – 3 minutes; which equates to 10 - 30 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
Every operation of the machine, index, carriage forward and back, chopper up and down, table up and down, clean position, test print, or flash activation can be done at the end of each head or at the control panel (without having to go to sub menus) on the MHM.
The average time savings on a 6 color job is 5 – 10 minutes; which equates to 50 - 100 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
To stop the press and wipe lint or tape pinholes on the M&R or the Anatol requires you to press stop and then hold down a reset button on the M&R while physically spinning the table out of the way. This is on all M&R’s air drive or servo. On the Anatol you press stop and then half index on the servo drives or release the drive pin and spin the table by hand. On both you have to re align the table and re engage the table lock which sometimes can be tough to do.
To do the same on a MHM simply press “clean position” on the control panel and the machine will finish the current print stroke and half index automatically. When finished simply press “clean position” again and the machine will half index back and automatically begin production.
The average time savings on a 500 piece fleece job is 10 minutes; which equates to 100 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
The procedures to adjust the flash dwell times on a M&R or an Anatol require you to scroll through enough sub menus that most operators stop the press to do this.
On the MHM presses you simply press the Dryer times button and adjust from there.
The average time savings on a 500 piece dark job is 5 – 10 minutes; which equates to 50 - 100 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
Print Documentation
All parameters of a print can be documented on any MHM. This greatly reduces the set up times on reprinting a job with exacting repeatability.
The average time savings on a 6 color job is 15 - 20 minutes; which equates to 150 - 200 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
Platen Changes
In order to change your platens on a M&R you have to reach under the platen and unlock 4 little bars by spinning them a certain distance, pull the platen off, line up the new platen, slide it on and then relock the bars. You then manually spin the table to the next platen and repeat. The average time to change out 12 platens is 10 – 15 minutes
In order to do this on an Anatol with the quick change platens you release from under the platen a lever, pull the platen off, line up the new platen, slide the platen on and re engage the lever under the platen. You then manually spin the table to the next platen and repeat. The average time to change out 12 platens is 7 – 10 minutes.
In order to change your platens on a MHM you simply press platen change on the control panel and lift the platen off. You then put the new platen on the arm and press index and unlock. The machine automatically indexes the next platen over and unlocks it. Simply repeat the above step until all platens are done, The average time to change out 12 platens is 45 to 90 seconds.
The average time savings is 6 – 14 minutes; which equates to 60 - 140 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
Print Breakdown
To break down a print on a M&R or Anatol requires flipping switches to release the squeegees, floodbars, and screens. Lifting the end of the head out of the way on a M&R or flipping the side holder out of the way on an Anatol is required if you want to change the screen only.
To break down a MHM S Type or 4000 simply unlock the screen and remove. Pulling the pins holding the squeegee and floodbars releases the You simply press the release on the end of the head and lift the arm holding the squeegee and floodbar out of the way to change just the screen.
The average time savings on switching a 6 color job for another 6 color job is 10 – 30 minutes; which equates to 100 - 300 additional shirts produced at 10 shirts a minute.
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Thanks for that info but Anatol is not in the running, S-Roque is for a variety of reasons. While M&R is still in the running it's quickly boiling down to MHM and the S-Roque.
Have you done an analysis comparing the features of these two brands?
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Sonny, on the MHM regi system, does the micros have to be zeroed for the screens to register correctly?
I'm interested in seeing the MHM to S Roque comparisons.
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Sonny, on the MHM regi system, does the micros have to be zeroed for the screens to register correctly?
I'm interested in seeing the MHM to S Roque comparisons.
If minor movement is needed to dial in a print then yes would need to be re zeroed. With a DTS system this step would be virtually non existent. I will need to see the newer S Roque to do a comparison as it has been a while since I have seen one.
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I like the S-Roque, but my perception is that they are VW compared to the MHM which is BMW. If you are a car guy, you'll get what I am talking about. M&R is like a Ford.
They all have their time and place and work better with some business models than the others. From what I have seen, everybody I can think of that has run multiple presses prefers the MHM to the other ones. I will also add to this that most of the other presses were not the newest models and some very significant features have been added in past few years. All said and done though, MHM still seems to be the press to beat.
pierre
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I like the S-Roque, but my perception is that they are VW compared to the MHM which is BMW. If you are a car guy, you'll get what I am talking about. M&R is like a Ford.
They all have their time and place and work better with some business models than the others. From what I have seen, everybody I can think of that has run multiple presses prefers the MHM to the other ones. I will also add to this that most of the other presses were not the newest models and some very significant features have been added in past few years. All said and done though, MHM still seems to be the press to beat.
pierre
Thank you for your input. I would say you have summed up our thinking pretty well.
For those that have an MHM, do you find the fixed flash location an issue at all? Our current second flash is used on the manual and the DB and we can roll it into any head we want... not that we move it around very often AND It's not even remotely close to a deal killer... Just wondering.
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I like the S-Roque, but my perception is that they are VW compared to the MHM which is BMW. If you are a car guy, you'll get what I am talking about. M&R is like a Ford.
They all have their time and place and work better with some business models than the others. From what I have seen, everybody I can think of that has run multiple presses prefers the MHM to the other ones. I will also add to this that most of the other presses were not the newest models and some very significant features have been added in past few years. All said and done though, MHM still seems to be the press to beat.
pierre
Thank you for your input. I would say you have summed up our thinking pretty well.
For those that have an MHM, do you find the fixed flash location an issue at all? Our current second flash is used on the manual and the DB and we can roll it into any head we want... not that we move it around very often AND It's not even remotely close to a deal killer... Just wondering.
It is not in a fixed position, just does not have a stand. We move ours about once a week. Should not really be a concern. I am pretty sure that you can get MSI flashes for it with a stand.
Pierre
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I like the S-Roque, but my perception is that they are VW compared to the MHM which is BMW. If you are a car guy, you'll get what I am talking about.
pierre
That's kind of the impression I had. I really like the S Roques, but it has a very MHM feel about it.
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Some nice points you make there Sonny, unfortunately they are not ALL true! I think this comes from your lack of knowledge of the newest presses on the market. You know I like you so I am not calling you liar, just lack of knowledge. One should probably test drive the NEWEST technology from M&R and MHM for themselves. Also, you cant compare ANY press to the GT3, because you have not seen it and you have no idea what it offers. I do have a little insight to it, but you should see it for yourself before you make comparisons. Both great choices, just be well educated before you make a decision. If you are going to spend that kind of money you owe it to yourself to visit SGIA Vegas, GT3 will debut there. I commend Sonny for the lengthy post with the comparisons, I know that took a lot of time. I personally think you can get good prints from most ANY new machine if you have skillz! Even with Sonnys wooden frames, HA!
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If you are considering the MHM vs S.Roque, like Ryan said look at the ECO(S.Roque) vs. the S-Type(MHM).
If you already have a DB and are thinking about a GT3 that will be the cheaper route. And if you are at all considering a DTS system, it pretty much cancels out the main advantages of the S.Roque and MHM FPU/PRU reg systems. I personally really like the M&R STE-II but a huge drawback I learned recently is M&R will NOT modify their DTS systems to work with MHM or S.Roque reg systems... Other companies will but I feel M&R makes the best unit.
When I was looking, I had a very poor experience and feeling from Hirsch. There were many of my questions went unanswered. I would probably still be more than happy with a MHM on my floor, but I had a better feeling with the S.Roque and I have zero regret every time I look or use our ECO.
S.Roque has a unique way of making basic design and engineering do amazing things with incredible reliability.
I was fortunate enough to help the head technician from Portugal set up the ECO with a flocker and foiler at ISS Long Beach last year. It was a incredible learning experience! It also re assured me I made the right decision.
Small story here- All the pneumatic air components on the S.Roque are all SMC brand(there was talk of them bringing that in house since the have the ability and it would cut costs, while still being 100% replaceable with SMC components). We had the ECO at the show all set up and just needed to hook up the flocker, well in shipping or the hustle and bustle of pre show set up 2 of the air connectors and 1 valve broke. At this point it is 3pm on Thursday, so we high tail it over to Grainger(which just so happens to be the smallest Grainger I have ever been in) we were able to over engineer the parts we needed but I wanted to try to find the exact ones. I looked up and called the area manager for SMC(4:30 at this time) gave her the part number and she called me back in 15min with 134 of the parts we needed that were within 1hr. from us. She could get them that evening if she called in some favors, but otherwise see would meet I us at the convention center at 7:20am with the parts.
While that for the most part a story about great costumer service from SMC, it is also about how great it is to have parts available locally if you have the need. Going on 2 years for us and all I have needed is extra cans if spray lube. And yes both cans were for the press! ;D
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On a side note on set up times. Any press that introduces spinning a platen to each head to initially register the print will be slower than the MHM as that steps DOES NOT exist. Live long and prosper.
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To me the MHM machines are great presses from what I have seen in person and heard. It's a crying shame they are represented by Hirsch.
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TCT: Thank you for your input. Do you find any deficiencies in the registration system? It's hard to overlook how nice the MHM system is.
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I have a MHM e-type. Let me talk about the registration system. I have never zeroed out my press. I know your suppose to and it works better if you do. Well this is the truth that I have found. Once you register a job the heads that you registered are now all in the same position compared to the FPU. So even if the heads are not zeroed out the next job you put on those heads will register. That is if you line up the film correctly. On all presses you have some variables in registration. Screen mesh can pull a little when printing a thick ink, mesh tensions will effect the screen mesh pull, and then just not positioning the film correctly. Out of all the jobs I have printed I have not had a job out more then a few hairs when the job is set up on heads that I have used before. Zeroing out would help with some of the mistakes that happen but for me its not a big deal. I am not going to say registration times but I have never got frustrated trying to register a job. Many times its just a slight twist here and there. I have more jobs that I don't have to do any microing on then ones that need it. Now the MHM system of micros is much easier to use then the rest that I have seen. You just turn the micro, no lock downs. This makes it very easy to be a perfectionist. It also makes it so you can adjust on the fly. No stopping the press to tweak the print here and there. Having this system you will make more fine tuning then you ever would on the other systems.
For my press the Micros and Plate adjustments system and FPU make the press. These are all items not found on any other press. The SRough does have similar items but after seeing the Ryonet one, MHM does it better IMO.
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TCT: Thank you for your input. Do you find any deficiencies in the registration system? It's hard to overlook how nice the MHM system is.
I know Ryan here has had issues with his press getting "zeroed" correctly, but I can't say I have. That is one of my favorite things, before when someone new started I would chalk up close to a month for them to learn to set jobs up. Now on their third day multi color jobs are no big deal!
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1964GN- where are you located? There YOU's all over the country now, chances are you could probably check one out in a running environment. If you are ever up around MN fell free to let me know and you can check out mine!
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CTS not working with the MHM pin system may be as simple as making adapters to hold the screen as the press does or making a master 25x33 frame that a frame with pins would snap into then set the whole thing into the CTS.
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CTS not working with the MHM pin system may be as simple as making adapters to hold the screen as the press does or making a master 25x33 frame that a frame with pins would snap into then set the whole thing into the CTS.
the only thing that needs to be done is holes have to be drilled in the holder. M&R even provides a thicker plate for those units. 'not really a big deal. . .
pierre
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1964GN- where are you located? There YOU's all over the country now, chances are you could probably check one out in a running environment. If you are ever up around MN fell free to let me know and you can check out mine!
Florida... Ah, Minnesota is my home state but I don't expect to be up there anytime this year. The owner hunts in WI so that may be an option. Where in MN are you? Are you open to phone call this week... just to pick your brain a bit? PM me your number if you are, if not I completely understand.
I suspect we'll be making a decision sooner rather than later.
Not to complicate matters but does anyone have an option on the RPM revolution? A 14 color is doable and the side clamps are attractive given that we do a lot of namedrops for a very large customer. The ability to load a screen with namedrops and move the screen back for each one is just one of the reasons many we are keeping the DB.
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I'm in Saint Paul, so technically 15 min from WI.... Sqslabs on the boards here is in FL and getting a RPM delivered soon! I'll pm you my contact info along with the password to actually get me on the phone :D
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The password is "I want to talk to him about sroque" :-p
Rpm is nice, if Alan ever comes back from his vacation he will gladly tell you how much he loves his.
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Not to complicate matters but does anyone have an option on the RPM revolution? A 14 color is doable and the side clamps are attractive given that we do a lot of namedrops for a very large customer. The ability to load a screen with namedrops and move the screen back for each one is just one of the reasons many we are keeping the DB.
I'm also in Florida (Fort Lauderdale), and have a 12 color Revolution being delivered in mid-October. I'm guessing you'll likely be making your decision before then, but if not, you're more than welcome to swing by and get a tour of it.
Here's a writeup I did on why I chose that press:
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,12121.msg114484.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,12121.msg114484.html)
In regards to the other presses you are looking at, they're all great and with that list you'll likely have an even tougher decision than I did. The good news is since they're all great machines, you really can't go wrong regardless of what direction you decide to go in. For me, it was about scrutinizing every press on my list and figuring out which one was the best fit for my shop. Sounds like you're doing the same.
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Dude, that was a great write up. Your entire scenario sounds eerily familiar.
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Dude, that was a great write up. Your entire scenario sounds eerily familiar.
Thanks man, hope it answered some of your questions on the machine. Be sure to let me know if you have any others.
I forgot to mention it earlier, but there is a shop in Orlando with a Revolution. Rick at RPM can likely set up a tour of it if you wanted to check it out in person.
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The password is "I want to talk to him about sroque" :-p
I had to change it because you kept calling and when they got me on the phone all I heard was heavy breathing... ;D
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The password is "I want to talk to him about sroque" :-p
I had to change it because you kept calling and when they got me on the phone all I heard was heavy breathing... ;D
Well, we were talking automatic screen printing equipment, what did you expect.
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Well played sir.
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Really hated that I missed this one, oh well, some good points made by all and some gross exaggerations made (based on worst case scenarios versus best case is not comparing apples to apples) by some. Sonny made a great post, which all of his points are true from a "true/false", "right/wrong" standpoint but if it takes anyone running a non-MHM auto 6 additional minutes to install sq & fb's on a 6 color job then they are in the wrong business and they'll never make any money doing this. If it takes an M&R operator 4-6 minutes longer to change sq angles on a 6 color job then they are in the wrong business and will never make any money doing this. And so on and so on... But, there are lots of smaller time savings due to the well-thought out features of the MHM machines that will all up to several minutes per day versus our press (RPM) and systems in place. I think the biggest time savings we would see with an MHM would be from taking the pallet jig on and off the press for every multi-colored job which would be around 30-60 seconds for every setup. The rest of the things mentioned can be done on our press very quickly and there are other things on our RPM that would prove faster than an MHM but overall the MHM would win in a feature-to-feature comparison by several-10 minutes per day in my estimation.
I really like all of the new autos coming out and the effort that the manufacturers have put forth to advance the technology on the machines. 10 years ago I would say the automatic press lineup was pathetic compared to what we have available now. I hope the advancements continue at this pace and as long as the competition stays healthy I don't see why it won't.
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Alan is right about the time savings. The MHM has less steps then most other presses that I have seen. I think time is really irreverent when things go right. Its the times that things go wrong that make one press better then others. Less steps less chances of things going wrong. Less steps less frustration. Honestly frustration takes more time then less steps. How many people have got frustrated that they had problems setting up a 6 color job. How many smoke breaks, early lunches, hits to the wall and kicked dogs happened before that job was print ready. This is were I see the time is saved. Keeping the moral of the shop up with a better more reliable system is worth all the money in the world.
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I just spent 2 days printing and operating the new GTIII. Not because I work for M&R but you do need to see this press prior to making any decision.
Also there was one important item left off the MHM registration system. What about the modifications that need to be made to your frames to use it?
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I just spent 2 days printing and operating the new GTIII. Not because I work for M&R but you do need to see this press prior to making any decision.
Also there was one important item left off the MHM registration system. What about the modifications that need to be made to your frames to use it?
As a die hard MHM fan, I have to agree with Rich. Frame modification is a pain when they have to be put in and to add insult to injury, it is expensive, too! Once they are done though, the system is hard to beat!
I do very much so look forward to seeing the GIII and the new UI at SGIA!
pierre
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I just spent 2 days printing and operating the new GTIII. Not because I work for M&R but you do need to see this press prior to making any decision.
Also there was one important item left off the MHM registration system. What about the modifications that need to be made to your frames to use it?
Rich is right here. The MHM frames have to be drilled if static or EZ frames. (rollers have brackets that attach to them) Then you add bushings or cups so they can slide on to the press. This is not a bad thing. They don't take very long to attach. 4 drilled holes and then 4 screws. I can do them in less than a min a screen when I do a batch. This is a one time thing, I have about 100 screens and I get them re stretched with the bushings on the frame. I have enough bushings for I think another 300 screens. The cool thing about the MHM screen holding system is you can take a screen out off the press and clean it, change the ink color and it will pop right back into register without any problems. I have used this for changing waterbase inks and I even did it once when a screen failed. I just burned a new screen using the film positioning unit and then that screen went into the head with perfect registration.
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Jon, what's the average cost per static and per roller to pin u p? Just out of curiosity.
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Jon, what's the average cost per static and per roller to pin u p? Just out of curiosity.
You know I have no Idea. I got my press with enough bushings for 400 screens. I think the bushings are like $2.5 each and the adapters are in the $8 range. You need 4 per screen. Pierre would know better this is jsut want I remember from talking about it with guys.
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I just spent 2 days printing and operating the new GTIII. Not because I work for M&R but you do need to see this press prior to making any decision.
Also there was one important item left off the MHM registration system. What about the modifications that need to be made to your frames to use it?
We have tried to get info but have been unsuccessful. So what are the differences between the GIII and the CIII?
We haven't heard from many S-Roque owners and time is running short, so if you have some time on one of their presses we would love to hear your experiences.
We have already taken into account the screen modifications needed but that's a one time expense that we think will pay for itself in short order.
Thanks for all of the input so far, and thanks for keeping it civil and on topic, for the most part ;-)
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I just spent 2 days printing and operating the new GTIII. Not because I work for M&R but you do need to see this press prior to making any decision.
Also there was one important item left off the MHM registration system. What about the modifications that need to be made to your frames to use it?
We have tried to get info but have been unsuccessful. So what are the differences between the GIII and the CIII?
We are listening.
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I just spent 2 days printing and operating the new GTIII. Not because I work for M&R but you do need to see this press prior to making any decision.
Also there was one important item left off the MHM registration system. What about the modifications that need to be made to your frames to use it?
were you up at social imprints?
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I just spent 2 days printing and operating the new GTIII. Not because I work for M&R but you do need to see this press prior to making any decision.
Also there was one important item left off the MHM registration system. What about the modifications that need to be made to your frames to use it?
We have tried to get info but have been unsuccessful. So what are the differences between the GIII and the CIII?
We haven't heard from many S-Roque owners and time is running short, so if you have some time on one of their presses we would love to hear your experiences.
We have already taken into account the screen modifications needed but that's a one time expense that we think will pay for itself in short order.
Thanks for all of the input so far, and thanks for keeping it civil and on topic, for the most part ;-)
As the 1st G3 was supposed to be mine, I was told its EXACTLY the same press as the smaller footprint CH3 with a different control panel. Don't know what got changed after I got the CH3D instead, but I look forward to seeing it at SGIA.
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Looks like a pic of the G3 has popped up on the M&R facebook page. Looks like my CH3 from I can tell.
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I didn't want to sound too preachy in my earlier post, but for the record I friggin' love our S.Roque. I would like to get a second one in here, I was even looking at getting a sizeable loan and bringing in a nice size oval. The machines are built like a brick shithouse.
You can get plenty of reviews from printers that have ran then for 15yrs+ but you will need to speak Spanish and Portuguese. One thing to keep in mind is there a little under 100 machines installed in North America so finding users on this site is a little harder. I believe there are 4 or 5 of us, and only 2 that are regulars.
The guys at Forward Printing switched from a E-Type and now have 2 S.Roques, but I believe their main reason for switching was service(Hirsch) related. There are shops here in the states that have converted from pretty much every brand to a S.Roque. I can probably get you contact info but it may take a day or two, I do have a day job! :D
As far as converting screens, the tabs for statics are like $1ea. and the ones for rollers are like $2ea. Each screen needs 2 tabs, unless you are going to flip your screen for burning 2 images, then you need 4. You can run both types of screens at the same time if wanted.
S.Roques largest downfall is they do not clearly advertise or inform of everything you can have done to a press. Want auto electric reg like the MHM 4000? Ask them, they have done it. Want your press to accept MHM screens/reg? Ask them, they do that. Want it to work with Tri-loc? They do that. You get the idea....
If you have specific questions you would like to ask me I PM'd you my info. Ask here also, good information and decision is what this place is all about! I have as of recent banned myself from hanging on the forum during work so I can get some work done! :D
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http://www.mrprint.com/en/Textile%20Screen%20Printing%20Equipment/Automatic%20Screen%20Printing%20Presses/Automatic/GAUNTLET%20III%20Automatic%20Screen%20Printing%20Press (http://www.mrprint.com/en/Textile%20Screen%20Printing%20Equipment/Automatic%20Screen%20Printing%20Presses/Automatic/GAUNTLET%20III%20Automatic%20Screen%20Printing%20Press)
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S.Roques largest downfall is they do not clearly advertise or inform of everything you can have done to a press. Want auto electric reg like the MHM 4000? Ask them, they have done it. Want your press to accept MHM screens/reg? Ask them, they do that. Want it to work with Tri-loc? They do that. You get the idea....
Thanks for that little tidbit!
If you didn't get a call late yesterday expect one today.
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I agree with your advice the Srouge is a good press. I have only seen the Ryonet one and the display features or lack of turned me off. I think that was the cheaper press so the one above it may have more controller features.
What display features was it missing that turned you off? Just wondering if we would find it as important, and if it's available on the YOU or not.
Thanks!
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As the 1st G3 was supposed to be mine, I was told its EXACTLY the same press as the smaller footprint CH3 with a different control panel.
IF that is an accurate statement, it hardly sounds like a step forward in regards to new technologies and features. I am not say's it's a bad press, just not a step forward. For the record: We are still waiting on M&R to get back to us with specs and pricing so this post may be way far off base :)
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this went off topic so I split it. The MHM deficiencies are here:
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,12750.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,12750.0.html)
let's get this back on track!
pierre
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This is a great thread so far.
We are ever so slowly narrowing down what appears to be an almost identical purchase to the orig poster. If it helps, the comparative models in terms of price/overall build/features are:
M&R Gauntlet 3
S.roque Eco
MHM S type
My conclusion was fairly easy to make- I would like the S.roque bottom carousel, MHM print heads, full compatibility with M&R style accessories and I would like the machine to be sold and serviced by M&R. For the UI, the MHM tablet interface or the new G3 UI both look pretty good. Now, who do I call to order this? :P
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I think M&R will make you a custom one ;D
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I saw on a social media site Gauntlet III recently won Best in Show at FESPA Mexico.
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I agree with your advice the Srouge is a good press. I have only seen the Ryonet one and the display features or lack of turned me off. I think that was the cheaper press so the one above it may have more controller features.
What display features was it missing that turned you off? Just wondering if we would find it as important, and if it's available on the YOU or not.
Thanks!
This was a few years ago. I don't remember for sure. On the MHM there is a clean position. It moves the pallets a half turn. You can then move them by hand one station. I use it all the time. They don't have that. You have to unlock and re lock I think?? It was a small display. I just remember looking at it and thinking you couldn't do too much. This was the YOU I think. Your looking at the one above that one so it may have a ton of features.
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I agree with your advice the Srouge is a good press. I have only seen the Ryonet one and the display features or lack of turned me off. I think that was the cheaper press so the one above it may have more controller features.
What display features was it missing that turned you off? Just wondering if we would find it as important, and if it's available on the YOU or not.
Thanks!
This was a few years ago. I don't remember for sure. On the MHM there is a clean position. It moves the pallets a half turn. You can then move them by hand one station. I use it all the time. They don't have that. You have to unlock and re lock I think?? It was a small display. I just remember looking at it and thinking you couldn't do too much. This was the YOU I think. Your looking at the one above that one so it may have a ton of features.
That is how the YOU indexes. It is either in free wheel mode or it is locked in. It indexes with a geneva drive. The ECO can full index in the printing direction, half index backwards and free wheel.
Zoo/Chris, I'm pretty sure features and print size, the CHIII is there with the S-Type and ECO.
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TCT,
I will do a video of my e-type controls if you do a video of your EVO controls. The e-type has the same controls as the other MHM presses. Does anyone have a CHIII that would like to do the same.
We could make it AUTO WARS - Control Panels
If you do a video do the main control and the controls on each head.
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I'll do it, anyone want to do a voice over for me? Can't stand when I have to hear my own voice! ;D You are talking about print head controls right?
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I'll do it, anyone want to do a voice over for me? Can't stand when I have to hear my own voice! ;D You are talking about print head controls right?
All the controls that the press has. Start with the main control and then move to one of the heads to show the controls there. Just stuff you use when setting up a job. We dont need to see you change print stroke delays, waterbase to plastisol or any other secondary controls that are always uses on each job. Unless you what to. I think it would be fun to see how all the other press work.
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TCT,
I will do a video of my e-type controls if you do a video of your EVO controls. The e-type has the same controls as the other MHM presses. Does anyone have a CHIII that would like to do the same.
We could make it AUTO WARS - Control Panels
If you do a video do the main control and the controls on each head.
ours is scheduled to ship Sept 16th
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
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The CHIIID is filled with tech. It also has digital touch screens at every head. You can control print distance, speed, pressure per stroke (hard on one lighter on the next hard again on a 3rd...9 strokes if you want no idea why you'd do that but its there). Index in any direction from the head.
From the main panel you can set all of this as well, including ink dip distance so it will go back and grab some ink every so many strokes. You can set up a head then copy it to other heads, or even all heads. You can save jobs and open jobs. It remembers the triloc pallet so if at the end of the run say pallet 1 is way over on head 8, click 1 button and it brings it to you. It will warm up the press itself, click 1 button and it disabled active heads and then put it in auto mode it beeps at you when each pallet is your desired temp. Click the 1 button again and your previous active heads are now back on, away you print. Has a go to function, so you can send a pallet to any head, say you wanted to see what head 5 is doing without walking over there. Pretty sweet. 1 button touch if you want all the active heads to come forward so its easier to remove sq/fl bars on job change overs. There is more, but it's early.
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
How much MORE is a C3D than equivalent MHM or Sroque? Have we not talked $$ yet? We all know they're pricey, but really what's the difference in price?
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
How much MORE is a C3D than equivalent MHM or Sroque? Have we not talked $$ yet? We all know they're pricey, but really what's the difference in price?
It's not the most amazing looking screens for sure, but function is there and obviously thats the most important.
Price, contact M&R on that, im not one to chuck around numbers. It's a expensive press no doubt about it. I can make the payment on it in less than a day of running and we are a "small" shop.
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
How much MORE is a C3D than equivalent MHM or Sroque? Have we not talked $$ yet? We all know they're pricey, but really what's the difference in price?
It's not the most amazing looking screens for sure, but function is there and obviously thats the most important.
Price, contact M&R on that, im not one to chuck around numbers. It's a expensive press no doubt about it. I can make the payment on it in less than a day of running and we are a "small" shop.
30 year term lol?
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
How much MORE is a C3D than equivalent MHM or Sroque? Have we not talked $$ yet? We all know they're pricey, but really what's the difference in price?
It's not the most amazing looking screens for sure, but function is there and obviously thats the most important.
Price, contact M&R on that, im not one to chuck around numbers. It's a expensive press no doubt about it. I can make the payment on it in less than a day of running and we are a "small" shop.
30 year term lol?
LOL no sir, just 5.
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
How much MORE is a C3D than equivalent MHM or Sroque? Have we not talked $$ yet? We all know they're pricey, but really what's the difference in price?
It's not the most amazing looking screens for sure, but function is there and obviously thats the most important.
Price, contact M&R on that, im not one to chuck around numbers. It's a expensive press no doubt about it. I can make the payment on it in less than a day of running and we are a "small" shop.
The HMI we use is an industrial component and is made to be reliable and safe throughout the life of the press. Way more expensive than the pads some manufacturers use but for good reasons. New graphics and features will be on the ones at the SGAI show and DFW ISS show.
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
How much MORE is a C3D than equivalent MHM or Sroque? Have we not talked $$ yet? We all know they're pricey, but really what's the difference in price?
It's not the most amazing looking screens for sure, but function is there and obviously thats the most important.
Price, contact M&R on that, im not one to chuck around numbers. It's a expensive press no doubt about it. I can make the payment on it in less than a day of running and we are a "small" shop.
The HMI we use is an industrial component and is made to be reliable and safe throughout the life of the press. Way more expensive than the pads some manufacturers use but for good reasons. New graphics and features will be on the ones at the SGAI show and DFW ISS show.
Will our press get any of those new fancy graphics?
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
does it now..
Our Xtreme uses a Samsung Galaxy Tablet for the display panel. Can your control panel log into the internet and access your production schedule so you as a printer know what job you're running next without having to leave your 'station' so to speak..
no..
I didn't think so.
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
How much MORE is a C3D than equivalent MHM or Sroque? Have we not talked $$ yet? We all know they're pricey, but really what's the difference in price?
It's not the most amazing looking screens for sure, but function is there and obviously thats the most important.
Price, contact M&R on that, im not one to chuck around numbers. It's a expensive press no doubt about it. I can make the payment on it in less than a day of running and we are a "small" shop.
The HMI we use is an industrial component and is made to be reliable and safe throughout the life of the press. Way more expensive than the pads some manufacturers use but for good reasons. New graphics and features will be on the ones at the SGAI show and DFW ISS show.
(https://threequartersandcounting.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/smiley-face-two-thumbs-up2.jpg)
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
does it now..
Our Xtreme uses a Samsung Galaxy Tablet for the display panel. Can your control panel log into the internet and access your production schedule so you as a printer know what job you're running next without having to leave your 'station' so to speak..
no..
I didn't think so.
ACTUALLY, YES IT CAN! That feature is locked, but the control panel on my CH3D CAN BE USED LIKE A COMPUTER AND WILL ACCESS THE INTERNET!
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
Did the guy that designed those screens also design Oregon Trail? 8 bit graphics rule...
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ACTUALLY, YES IT CAN! That feature is locked, but the control panel on my CH3D CAN BE USED LIKE A COMPUTER AND WILL ACCESS THE INTERNET!
Nice!
Is that locked by you or..
So here we are, page 6..
It now seems that each of these machines all do the same thing.. they print t-shirts at an absurd rate!
does it really matter what brand you use or what color pom poms you cheer with when all we're really doing is printing a t-shirt.. all this fuss for what?..
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I'ma head over to a truck forum and ask if I should buy a Ford or Chevy. BRB!
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
Did the guy that designed those screens also design Oregon Trail? 8 bit graphics rule...
They aren't amazing looking... No doubt about it. But I wouldn't trade this press for any other at this stage.
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Nail on the head John. As stated above I put more energy into employees than arguing presses. Some of mine are over 20 ys old and they still rock as fast as ops can load. And heres whats probably going to make everyone nuts............I prefer presses with the minimal amount of features.
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It is sorta comical to see different folks get all in a tizzy when someone mentions the possibility of buying a tool that they don't agree with. Being a shop that is finally close to moving upward on machinery, watching these threads is fun. I can say the stress of making the right choice for one's business can be overwhelming at times, but at the end of the day someone choice really is, "their" choice and what is best suited for "their" shop. It's hilarious when guys start poking jabs at who's gear is better and cooler. Just remember, if you are someone who thinks they are doing a brand good by speaking up for them, don't be a puttz about it, because it can change someone's taste of being part of a circle, just sayin. I'm not calling anyone out. But there are a lot of, "off the forum" phone calls, text and emails made where people dsicuss what is posted and I hear it all the time, and have said it myself. Man who wants to be part of a clan that act like highschool kids comparing their shoes against each other. Like I said, it comes from every side, but try to make your points positive and mature. I'm sure this post will tick someone one off, but that just might be the ole conscience giving someone a nudge. ;D Like I said, everyone needs to make choices best suited for them, their staff, and their business. I have yet to have a customer in 8 years say, he I'm only going to use you to print my shirts if you have such and such equipment. I choose what I have based on several strong points. The strongest for me has been the peace of mind that it will be reliable, run all day, and do what I need it to do.
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
How much MORE is a C3D than equivalent MHM or Sroque? Have we not talked $$ yet? We all know they're pricey, but really what's the difference in price?
It's not the most amazing looking screens for sure, but function is there and obviously thats the most important.
Price, contact M&R on that, im not one to chuck around numbers. It's a expensive press no doubt about it. I can make the payment on it in less than a day of running and we are a "small" shop.
The HMI we use is an industrial component and is made to be reliable and safe throughout the life of the press. Way more expensive than the pads some manufacturers use but for good reasons. New graphics and features will be on the ones at the SGAI show and DFW ISS show.
Will our press get any of those new fancy graphics?
Yes
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
does it now..
Our Xtreme uses a Samsung Galaxy Tablet for the display panel. Can your control panel log into the internet and access your production schedule so you as a printer know what job you're running next without having to leave your 'station' so to speak..
no..
I didn't think so.
Actually it does and a whole lot more. Its not active on every press until the show.
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
Did the guy that designed those screens also design Oregon Trail? 8 bit graphics rule...
They aren't amazing looking... No doubt about it. But I wouldn't trade this press for any other at this stage.
I'm just having fun. It really doesn't matter what they look like. As a former Graphics guy I have a hard time looking at them without making fun of them. If I paid over 100K+ for something I want every aspect of it to be at least modern looking. Can you imagine a 100K+ car coming out with that style instruments panel? You would have to question were else did they cut corners.
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
Did the guy that designed those screens also design Oregon Trail? 8 bit graphics rule...
They aren't amazing looking... No doubt about it. But I wouldn't trade this press for any other at this stage.
as mentioned in the other thread, new UI is looking better and is a step in right direction. I would like to see white (light) numbers on very dark background for legibility and shading to make the buttons easier to distinguish. Closer we get to the analog look, the easier the panel is to use. Everything around us is analog and our brains are wired to process that info. While it might seem counter intuitive, digital actually requires an extra step to interpret. Big number 8 is harder to interpret than an image of the slider about two thirds up the scale.
pierre
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Actually it does and a whole lot more. Its not active on every press until the show.
awesome.. but can you take it off the press, walk over to the break area with it and get back to that game of angry birds Rio you started this morning.
Being that it's a tablet, it runs all kinds of app's and what not so it's kinda neat.. but really un needed to print a t-shirt.
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Actually it does and a whole lot more. Its not active on every press until the show.
awesome.. but can you take it off the press, walk over to the break area with it and get back to that game of angry birds Rio you started this morning.
Being that it's a tablet, it runs all kinds of app's and what not so it's kinda neat.. but really un needed to print a t-shirt.
I would argue that the ops should not be taking the tablet to the press room as I am sure you were just kidding around. Reality is, the new system will allow you to monitor the press from the bathroom on your phone if you were inclined to do so! The capability there is surpassing the MHM who used to be the leader in the UI. While the Sabre and MHM still look better (IMHO), M&R is bringing functionallity that is not yet available on the others (which are not necessarily that far behind, but are behind non the less).
pierre
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
Did the guy that designed those screens also design Oregon Trail? 8 bit graphics rule...
They aren't amazing looking... No doubt about it. But I wouldn't trade this press for any other at this stage.
I'm just having fun. It really doesn't matter what they look like. As a former Graphics guy I have a hard time looking at them without making fun of them. If I paid over 100K+ for something I want every aspect of it to be at least modern looking. Can you imagine a 100K+ car coming out with that style instruments panel? You would have to question were else did they cut corners.
I don't question at all any corners cut on the CH3D, I doubt many people would. If the UI not being highly graphical is the only bone one can pick with this press. Heck ill take it.
I know this about tablets and I am on my 3rd or 4th now.... they get kinda slow and bogged down over time. Some of that is due to software being more bloated as time goes on... but not all of it. I would worry a bit about a tablet operating in heat all day long 10-12hrs a day 5-7 days a week. Now that doesn't mean that there will be problems, but same as you worry about the basic looking ones, I would worry about the opposite end as well. I mean even in my 2014 Vette, all digital full color awesome screens (2), you see glitches from time to time already in just 2000 miles on it. Let's not pretend some of these automatic manufactures are testing screens as well as Chevy does either...
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;)
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Ok, while the interface ain't the sharpest, C3D wins hands down lol
How much MORE is a C3D than equivalent MHM or Sroque? Have we not talked $$ yet? We all know they're pricey, but really what's the difference in price?
It's not the most amazing looking screens for sure, but function is there and obviously thats the most important.
Price, contact M&R on that, im not one to chuck around numbers. It's a expensive press no doubt about it. I can make the payment on it in less than a day of running and we are a "small" shop.
The HMI we use is an industrial component and is made to be reliable and safe throughout the life of the press. Way more expensive than the pads some manufacturers use but for good reasons. New graphics and features will be on the ones at the SGAI show and DFW ISS show.
Will our press get any of those new fancy graphics?
Yes
Awesome, I guess that means me too!
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Let's not pretend some of these automatic manufactures are testing screens as well as Chevy does either...
Testing screens maybe, testing ignition switches that pose a threat to life and limb, apparently a different story.
GM is hardly the poster child for quality control and care for its customers :o
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ACTUALLY, YES IT CAN! That feature is locked, but the control panel on my CH3D CAN BE USED LIKE A COMPUTER AND WILL ACCESS THE INTERNET!
Nice!
Is that locked by you or..
So here we are, page 6..
It now seems that each of these machines all do the same thing.. they print t-shirts at an absurd rate!
does it really matter what brand you use or what color pom poms you cheer with when all we're really doing is printing a t-shirt.. all this fuss for what?..
Agreed!
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Just heard that an MHM iQ oval will be at Vegas this year. This thing to quote a Vegas personality (The Count from Counting Cars) is SICK 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyt8Sg4JV2c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyt8Sg4JV2c)
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Just heard that an MHM iQ oval will be at Vegas this year. This thing to quote a Vegas personality (The Count from Counting Cars) is SICK 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyt8Sg4JV2c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyt8Sg4JV2c)
Perhaps they'll have it all better for the show!
How's that for acting my age? LOL!
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MHM, for being such a high tech company, has theeeee worst voice overs in their videos, lol. This guy sounds like he's about to blow his voice box out of his neck. Sounds like the vampire dude from Rise of the Lycons. "BRING ME THE LYYYYCON" LOL Sorry, audio guy here lol
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What do you guys see wrong in this picture?
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I'd love to be able to remove a tablet from the press and take it home or play a game during lunch, upload a new feature, etc. I may be in the minority but I think tablet control and functionality is the best when it comes to operating an auto. I have obviously never used it but I love my tablet and take it everywhere and use it for everything so having one to operate an auto seems like an amazing feature that would play a small role in me choosing a press. There are dozens of more important features to consider before getting to the control panel being a tablet, membrane panel, touchscreen, or the old-school toggle switch but at this stage the ultimate in control and functionality would be a robust tablet. Without the knowledge and experience that the machine gurus have, there is more that goes into it than I realize and cons of using a tablet that I'm not looking at but MHM has been at the forefront of putting technology on their autos and if they're using a tablet then I feel pretty good about it's place and future in running an auto.
I like all of the touchscreen control panels over our membrane panel but I see what everyone is talking about when it comes to the "look" of some of them. I have always liked the MHM but the Aries from Anatol looks nice (bordering on being too busy and cluttered but that's straight from someone who hasn't spent much time in front of one) and I like the cool clean look of the Sabre's. If I had to choose out of the 4 with touchscreen control, M&R, Anatol, Sabre and MHM, I don't know which one I'd choose first.
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I'd love to be able to remove a tablet from the press and take it home or play a game during lunch, upload a new feature, etc. I may be in the minority but I think tablet control and functionality is the best when it comes to operating an auto. I have obviously never used it but I love my tablet and take it everywhere and use it for everything so having one to operate an auto seems like an amazing feature that would play a small role in me choosing a press. There are dozens of more important features to consider before getting to the control panel being a tablet, membrane panel, touchscreen, or the old-school toggle switch but at this stage the ultimate in control and functionality would be a robust tablet. Without the knowledge and experience that the machine gurus have, there is more that goes into it than I realize and cons of using a tablet that I'm not looking at but MHM has been at the forefront of putting technology on their autos and if they're using a tablet then I feel pretty good about it's place and future in running an auto.
I like all of the touchscreen control panels over our membrane panel but I see what everyone is talking about when it comes to the "look" of some of them. I have always liked the MHM but the Aries from Anatol looks nice (bordering on being too busy and cluttered but that's straight from someone who hasn't spent much time in front of one) and I like the cool clean look of the Sabre's. If I had to choose out of the 4 with touchscreen control, M&R, Anatol, Sabre and MHM, I don't know which one I'd choose first.
The only gripe I have on my Xtype is the samsung tablet has to talk to the actual computer/controller and there is a lag when you index or do any of the head functions. Can be annoying when your used to the etype and 4000 computer.
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What do you guys see wrong in this picture?
two different pallets? one with and one without the extra support?
Also, the two small supports seem like they would not be enough for something that heavy. I would want to see what's behind those. . .
pierre
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What do you guys see wrong in this picture?
two different pallets? one with and one without the extra support?
Also, the two small supports seem like they would not be enough for something that heavy. I would want to see what's behind those. . .
pierre
Yup, I had a feeling you would be the first to catch that. by the way those supports do nothing, MHM actually sent us supports like that and we riveted them on our pallets, Didn't help much.
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Let's not pretend some of these automatic manufactures are testing screens as well as Chevy does either...
Testing screens maybe, testing ignition switches that pose a threat to life and limb, apparently a different story.
GM is hardly the poster child for quality control and care for its customers :o
Over the last year? Or over its history? It's been pretty solid company over its history. I know people like to cherry pick though and in that context you'd be right.
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What do you guys see wrong in this picture?
two different pallets? one with and one without the extra support?
Also, the two small supports seem like they would not be enough for something that heavy. I would want to see what's behind those. . .
pierre
Yup, I had a feeling you would be the first to catch that. by the way those supports do nothing, MHM actually sent us supports like that and we riveted them on our pallets, Didn't help much.
I seriously doubt the flex is coming from the platen (which could explain why the supports did not work). The honeycombed aluminum is super strong. My thinking is that either the pins are pulling out or the arm is flexing. I'll have to take a look.
pierre
pierre
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Andy, you should have picked Ford for your metaphor. ;)
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
Did the guy that designed those screens also design Oregon Trail? 8 bit graphics rule...
They aren't amazing looking... No doubt about it. But I wouldn't trade this press for any other at this stage.
I'm just having fun. It really doesn't matter what they look like. As a former Graphics guy I have a hard time looking at them without making fun of them. If I paid over 100K+ for something I want every aspect of it to be at least modern looking. Can you imagine a 100K+ car coming out with that style instruments panel? You would have to question were else did they cut corners.
I don't question at all any corners cut on the CH3D, I doubt many people would. If the UI not being highly graphical is the only bone one can pick with this press. Heck ill take it.
I know this about tablets and I am on my 3rd or 4th now.... they get kinda slow and bogged down over time. Some of that is due to software being more bloated as time goes on... but not all of it. I would worry a bit about a tablet operating in heat all day long 10-12hrs a day 5-7 days a week. Now that doesn't mean that there will be problems, but same as you worry about the basic looking ones, I would worry about the opposite end as well. I mean even in my 2014 Vette, all digital full color awesome screens (2), you see glitches from time to time already in just 2000 miles on it. Let's not pretend some of these automatic manufactures are testing screens as well as Chevy does either...
Rich gave me a tour of the CHIIID in Vegas. It is a nice press. It has lots of things I liked. I like that you can do a double stroke and have the first stroke be at 50# of pressure and the second be at like 25 pounds. That would be nice for waterbase. It also can do a flood and then 2 print strokes since it can lift the flood bar and squeegee independently. It also has this flood step back thing. So every 10th or so flood it can go back lets say 2 inches farther so it can pick up any ink that may have got behind the flood bar. (no carding behind the flood bar) It has lots of good things going for it. All good stuff but for the price tag I am very happy with what I have.
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Andy, you should have picked Ford for your metaphor. ;)
But of course, it wasn't Ford (this time around) found to have kept quiet about a penny saving/life costing condition for nine years!
But let's not keep this going astray. My bad, merely prompted by the initial Chevy (GM) reference.
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
Did the guy that designed those screens also design Oregon Trail? 8 bit graphics rule...
They aren't amazing looking... No doubt about it. But I wouldn't trade this press for any other at this stage.
I'm just having fun. It really doesn't matter what they look like. As a former Graphics guy I have a hard time looking at them without making fun of them. If I paid over 100K+ for something I want every aspect of it to be at least modern looking. Can you imagine a 100K+ car coming out with that style instruments panel? You would have to question were else did they cut corners.
I don't question at all any corners cut on the CH3D, I doubt many people would. If the UI not being highly graphical is the only bone one can pick with this press. Heck ill take it.
I know this about tablets and I am on my 3rd or 4th now.... they get kinda slow and bogged down over time. Some of that is due to software being more bloated as time goes on... but not all of it. I would worry a bit about a tablet operating in heat all day long 10-12hrs a day 5-7 days a week. Now that doesn't mean that there will be problems, but same as you worry about the basic looking ones, I would worry about the opposite end as well. I mean even in my 2014 Vette, all digital full color awesome screens (2), you see glitches from time to time already in just 2000 miles on it. Let's not pretend some of these automatic manufactures are testing screens as well as Chevy does either...
Rich gave me a tour of the CHIIID in Vegas. It is a nice press. It has lots of things I liked. I like that you can do a double stroke and have the first stroke be at 50# of pressure and the second be at like 25 pounds. That would be nice for waterbase. It also can do a flood and then 2 print strokes since it can lift the flood bar and squeegee independently. It also has this flood step back thing. So every 10th or so flood it can go back lets say 2 inches farther so it can pick up any ink that may have got behind the flood bar. (no carding behind the flood bar) It has lots of good things going for it. All good stuff but for the price tag I am very happy with what I have.
I learned on my first auto not to let that be the deciding factor. I bought a machine this time that in all honesty I hope to keep until I quit/sell/pass on this business. So in that context this machine costs nothing since I am 35 and will likely work for 30 more years. The cost of this thing over 30 years is nothing when you think about it like that.
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I learned on my first auto not to let that be the deciding factor. I bought a machine this time that in all honesty I hope to keep until I quit/sell/pass on this business. So in that context this machine costs nothing since I am 35 and will likely work for 30 more years. The cost of this thing over 30 years is nothing when you think about it like that.
I understand your point there young whippersnapper. I am 37 so I am older and wiser. I know its not the age it the miles. I get your point but as soon as M&R comes out with the new "RICH 1.0" you will be the first person to sell your press back M&R to get it.
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I learned on my first auto not to let that be the deciding factor. I bought a machine this time that in all honesty I hope to keep until I quit/sell/pass on this business. So in that context this machine costs nothing since I am 35 and will likely work for 30 more years. The cost of this thing over 30 years is nothing when you think about it like that.
I understand your point there young whippersnapper. I am 37 so I am older and wiser. I know its not the age it the miles. I get your point but as soon as M&R comes out with the new "RICH 1.0" you will be the first person to sell your press back M&R to get it.
Honestly doubt we'd sell this press. Anything is possible though I guess.
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I'd love to be able to remove a tablet from the press and take it home or play a game during lunch, upload a new feature, etc. I may be in the minority but I think tablet control and functionality is the best when it comes to operating an auto. I have obviously never used it but I love my tablet and take it everywhere and use it for everything so having one to operate an auto seems like an amazing feature that would play a small role in me choosing a press. There are dozens of more important features to consider before getting to the control panel being a tablet, membrane panel, touchscreen, or the old-school toggle switch but at this stage the ultimate in control and functionality would be a robust tablet. Without the knowledge and experience that the machine gurus have, there is more that goes into it than I realize and cons of using a tablet that I'm not looking at but MHM has been at the forefront of putting technology on their autos and if they're using a tablet then I feel pretty good about it's place and future in running an auto.
I like all of the touchscreen control panels over our membrane panel but I see what everyone is talking about when it comes to the "look" of some of them. I have always liked the MHM but the Aries from Anatol looks nice (bordering on being too busy and cluttered but that's straight from someone who hasn't spent much time in front of one) and I like the cool clean look of the Sabre's. If I had to choose out of the 4 with touchscreen control, M&R, Anatol, Sabre and MHM, I don't know which one I'd choose first.
The Gauntlet III will be at the DFW show. Go check it out.
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[/quote]
Rich gave me a tour of the CHIIID in Vegas. It is a nice press. It has lots of things I liked. I like that you can do a double stroke and have the first stroke be at 50# of pressure and the second be at like 25 pounds. That would be nice for waterbase. It also can do a flood and then 2 print strokes since it can lift the flood bar and squeegee independently. It also has this flood step back thing. So every 10th or so flood it can go back lets say 2 inches farther so it can pick up any ink that may have got behind the flood bar. (no carding behind the flood bar) It has lots of good things going for it. All good stuff but for the price tag I am very happy with what I have.
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That is actually pretty impressive.
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I'd love to be able to remove a tablet from the press and take it home or play a game during lunch, upload a new feature, etc. I may be in the minority but I think tablet control and functionality is the best when it comes to operating an auto. I have obviously never used it but I love my tablet and take it everywhere and use it for everything so having one to operate an auto seems like an amazing feature that would play a small role in me choosing a press. There are dozens of more important features to consider before getting to the control panel being a tablet, membrane panel, touchscreen, or the old-school toggle switch but at this stage the ultimate in control and functionality would be a robust tablet. Without the knowledge and experience that the machine gurus have, there is more that goes into it than I realize and cons of using a tablet that I'm not looking at but MHM has been at the forefront of putting technology on their autos and if they're using a tablet then I feel pretty good about it's place and future in running an auto.
I like all of the touchscreen control panels over our membrane panel but I see what everyone is talking about when it comes to the "look" of some of them. I have always liked the MHM but the Aries from Anatol looks nice (bordering on being too busy and cluttered but that's straight from someone who hasn't spent much time in front of one) and I like the cool clean look of the Sabre's. If I had to choose out of the 4 with touchscreen control, M&R, Anatol, Sabre and MHM, I don't know which one I'd choose first.
The Gauntlet III will be at the DFW show. Go check it out.
I'll be there all day Friday...I hope. If not I'll be there all day Saturday. I'd like to be there both days so I can see what I missed last year. I didn't have near enough time on the floor last year.
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
Brandt when did you take those pictures of the screens?
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I don't have a CHIII, I have its big brother the CHIIID but here are a few pics of the control screen if you like. I dont have time to do a video right now but I could do one sorta soon. Place is a nightmare right now.
Brandt when did you take those pictures of the screens?
Like day 2 with the press, so months ago.
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I'd love to be able to remove a tablet from the press and take it home or play a game during lunch, upload a new feature, etc. I may be in the minority but I think tablet control and functionality is the best when it comes to operating an auto. I have obviously never used it but I love my tablet and take it everywhere and use it for everything so having one to operate an auto seems like an amazing feature that would play a small role in me choosing a press. There are dozens of more important features to consider before getting to the control panel being a tablet, membrane panel, touchscreen, or the old-school toggle switch but at this stage the ultimate in control and functionality would be a robust tablet. Without the knowledge and experience that the machine gurus have, there is more that goes into it than I realize and cons of using a tablet that I'm not looking at but MHM has been at the forefront of putting technology on their autos and if they're using a tablet then I feel pretty good about it's place and future in running an auto.
I like all of the touchscreen control panels over our membrane panel but I see what everyone is talking about when it comes to the "look" of some of them. I have always liked the MHM but the Aries from Anatol looks nice (bordering on being too busy and cluttered but that's straight from someone who hasn't spent much time in front of one) and I like the cool clean look of the Sabre's. If I had to choose out of the 4 with touchscreen control, M&R, Anatol, Sabre and MHM, I don't know which one I'd choose first.
The Gauntlet III will be at the DFW show. Go check it out.
I'll be there all day Friday...I hope. If not I'll be there all day Saturday. I'd like to be there both days so I can see what I missed last year. I didn't have near enough time on the floor last year.
See Dave Zimmer. He will be explaining all the features in the HMI. I will miss this one.
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Throwing my 2 cents out for what it's worth.... Personally I would never want a tablet or any "removable" control off my press bottom line. The last thing I want is my guys to be playing games or surfing the internet. I could just see my guys now checking out some nude websites and infecting the tablet with some sort of virus that messes with the machine functions. I like the interface look of the tablet but I've never really seen an industrial style tablet that I would trust in a screen print shop. Guys spraying glue, extreme heat, harmonic vibration of the press, etc etc etc are all reasons I personally wouldn't trust a tablet. I really like the idea behind it but I'm nowhere near sold on it yet. The one thing that I really wish I had was a live portal where I could watch what my presses were doing, could load jobs, etc.... I think workhorse really hit one out of the park with their portal gateway on the new saber press as that is one platform that I think would fit very well into a shop like mine. I know m&r is developing some new software/production tracking so that will probably be the bees knees once Rich throws it out to all of us so that will nice when we can get that going. But my opinion is there's so many things I can see going wrong with tablet or my guys taking advantage of it that until some steps to make it more industrial with certain locks I personally don't dig it.......
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I really abuse my tablet. So much so that I have to watch and curtail my behavior around our 4 year old because she has mimicked it.
That brings up another point, we have a 4 year old that has been carrying around the same tablet for 2 years now... still no cracks nothing... it's 100% hers and she brings it EVERYWHERE!
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Throwing my 2 cents out for what it's worth.... Personally I would never want a tablet or any "removable" control off my press bottom line. The last thing I want is my guys to be playing games or surfing the internet. I could just see my guys now checking out some nude websites and infecting the tablet with some sort of virus that messes with the machine functions. I like the interface look of the tablet but I've never really seen an industrial style tablet that I would trust in a screen print shop. Guys spraying glue, extreme heat, harmonic vibration of the press, etc etc etc are all reasons I personally wouldn't trust a tablet. I really like the idea behind it but I'm nowhere near sold on it yet. The one thing that I really wish I had was a live portal where I could watch what my presses were doing, could load jobs, etc.... I think workhorse really hit one out of the park with their portal gateway on the new saber press as that is one platform that I think would fit very well into a shop like mine. I know m&r is developing some new software/production tracking so that will probably be the bees knees once Rich throws it out to all of us so that will nice when we can get that going. But my opinion is there's so many things I can see going wrong with tablet or my guys taking advantage of it that until some steps to make it more industrial with certain locks I personally don't dig it.......
I understand what you're saying, i'll take the tablet for myself and take off the cover that holds it in place, to reveal the normal mhm interface panel touch screen behind it.
8)
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The cool thing about the tablets is you could easily have a back up. No big deal to switch them out. I think its a smart move as long as they give you access to the software to put on more than one tablet. At that point the possibilities are endless. Have one for each of the guys that run the press. They brake it they buy it. They use it for porn and they are fired. Im sure you can lock out anything you want to on it. Why not make it wireless. You could have one at the end of the dryer so they could stop the press if they see a pin hole. They could also have it so you could up load the job date. So one screen is the press the next is your job info. Colors, location etc. Have one in the managers office. So when he is in there all day he can a least say he was over seeing the presses. For the price to replace the main controller on these presses I like the option to just buy a $500-800 tablet.
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Could this all become a digital workflow from beginning to end? Files sent to the screen rooms CTS and when they are ready have the job pop up on press with all the particulars of the job like colors, print positions, flashes needed, qty and colors of garments etc etc.?
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Could this all become a digital workflow from beginning to end? Files sent to the screen rooms CTS and when they are ready have the job pop up on press with all the particulars of the job like colors, print positions, flashes needed, qty and colors of garments etc etc.?
Could be? Good lord, it should be...or should've been long ago. Press makers should be selling mgmt software that integrates with all their gear. I should be able to input all spec into one location on my computer and know that ink is popping up in the ink queue in the mixing software/scale, location and print order at the press, laser location guide auto sets to it's location reference, flash temp/time/intensity auto setting to last used on that design or an inputted default or best guess, etc.
And it's a win-win for everyone as the shop gets the software and the manufacturer has in built loyalty to their gear since it syncs to their system. Better, there should be communications standards for our line of work so that all sorts of machinery, etc. can be synced.
Every single shop in this country and the world is burning countless hours checking on everything from flash times/temps to "where do I locate this print again?". If you think you aren't, I beg to differ and argue that simple connections of tech could be saving time in every shop. Toss in a workforce that, shall we say, leaves a little to be desired and the need is magnified. Our presses should be prompting our ops, our scales our ink techs and so on.
This is very basic use of long existing tech that I'm describing. I feel like our industry is behind, far behind, what our cousins in print have engineered in order to stay afloat. We're getting a free ride at the moment in that digital textile can't quite beat screen in a number of situations but that ride will come to an abrupt halt at some point.
All that said, low tech, simple, sound and smart management can overcome a lot of this but I doubt any level of managerial intelligence will keep our industry alive when digital steps it's game up in the textile realm, we need to already be faster and better.
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I think it will get there and it looks to me that M&R will be the one to do it as they have been on a serious advancement kick for awhile now and they just keep getting better and better. I for one am seriously inefficient in our shop and to find ways to improve on that.
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Could this all become a digital workflow from beginning to end? Files sent to the screen rooms CTS and when they are ready have the job pop up on press with all the particulars of the job like colors, print positions, flashes needed, qty and colors of garments etc etc.?
Could be? Good lord, it should be...or should've been long ago. Press makers should be selling mgmt software that integrates with all their gear. I should be able to input all spec into one location on my computer and know that ink is popping up in the ink queue in the mixing software/scale, location and print order at the press, laser location guide auto sets to it's location reference, flash temp/time/intensity auto setting to last used on that design or an inputted default or best guess, etc.
And it's a win-win for everyone as the shop gets the software and the manufacturer has in built loyalty to their gear since it syncs to their system. Better, there should be communications standards for our line of work so that all sorts of machinery, etc. can be synced.
Every single shop in this country and the world is burning countless hours checking on everything from flash times/temps to "where do I locate this print again?". If you think you aren't, I beg to differ and argue that simple connections of tech could be saving time in every shop. Toss in a workforce that, shall we say, leaves a little to be desired and the need is magnified. Our presses should be prompting our ops, our scales our ink techs and so on.
This is very basic use of long existing tech that I'm describing. I feel like our industry is behind, far behind, what our cousins in print have engineered in order to stay afloat. We're getting a free ride at the moment in that digital textile can't quite beat screen in a number of situations but that ride will come to an abrupt halt at some point.
All that said, low tech, simple, sound and smart management can overcome a lot of this but I doubt any level of managerial intelligence will keep our industry alive when digital steps it's game up in the textile realm, we need to already be faster and better.
You mean the way Rich demands that his manufacturing plant runs?
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What do you guys see wrong in this picture?
So what I see in this and was a issue for me when I asked them for a quote is, it is SO clean. NO lint anywhere! I understand it is because it is a promo video, but let's be real here shops get dirty and there IS lint. These stations are all ran independently, they pick up their power and communication signals from a track closer to the base. Now how much lint can they withstand before the signal is lost? Hirsch couldn't get me a solid answer on that, just that I would need to keep the machine fairly lint free.
I'm not trying to slam the press, it seems pretty amazing, when I thought we were going to get a oval I got a quote on one. Now this was a few months ago and at that point they didn't even have one operating in the field, so things and answers could of changed by now.
That CHIIID is pretty damn amazing with everything it can do. The graphics interface could use a bit of sprucing up(JON, that Oregon Trail crack was classic! ) It just seems like there is A LOT going on in every screen. Just a thought Rich, maybe have some if the info dropped to a sub menu? I'm sure it is not a big deal once you get use to it, but my initial reaction when you were showing us the screens in the tour is it made me nervous. So much crammed so close together. No offense intended, just my initial thought. If you guys would of had the CHIIID available when I was press shopping, it would of made my decision much harder!
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For the price of a 6 color oval you can get two very nice 8c presses or one very nice 10c. While it has some great features it's not a press we are looking at.
M&R has definitely add value with some of the new features they are adding... pretty cool stuff.
As far as control panels go... ANYTHING is better that the one on our DB (which is one of the earliest produced) :)
If one wasn't careful they could get analysis paralysis :)
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If one wasn't careful they could get analysis paralysis :)
You talking about me? J/K, but that is TOTALLY me!
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I would like to thank everyone for their input, and a special thanks to those that were kind enough to call and provide their input. Buying a brand new large press is a very big decision for us, and as others have said, it's unlikely that getting any of the presses we were considering would be a decision we wouldn't regret.
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We just bought an 8 color Diamondback S and are extremely excited to get it. It is scheduled to install on October 6th. Thanks to the forum here for all the input when we posed the questions about what presses to consider. Binkspot was particularly helpful to us and gave us some great advice and helpful hints, and actually put us in touch with the dealer that we're going through. We bought ours through Ron Yardley at Ronko, a very knowledgeable tech and printer.
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Following this, in the same boat