TSB
screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Prosperi-Tees on August 13, 2014, 07:54:11 PM
-
Wondering what prices have you guys seen for autos. Criteria is 8 and 10 color presses with servo and ac heads, looking for standard print sizes (16x18ish):
Anatol Horizon - $41700 8/10
Anatol Horizon - $56100 10/12
Workhorse Sabre - $34000 6/8 (included this as it would for the most part perform like an 8 color of other mfgs with the flashbacks)
Workhorse Sabre - $44000 8/10
Workhorse Sabre - $54000 10/12
M&R Sportsman - $ 8/10
M&R Sportsman - $ 10/12
Sroque You - $49995 8/10
Sroque You - $69995 10/12
MHM? - $ 8/10
MHM? - $ 10/12
RPM Revolution - $ 8/10
RPM Revolution - $ 10/12
-
Dont own any of these presses. But I have worked with some and I am constantly looking for a place with SRoques. If I could ever upgrade from ryonets manual presses: riley hopkins and the riley hopkins jr ( which I own now ) I would get a Sroque. I have even worked on lawsons, vastexs, and a few other brands. Maybe I am just pro Ryonet. Good luck.
-
Workhorse Sabre - $34000 6/8 (included this as it would for the most part perform like an 8 color of other mfgs with the flashbacks)
Workhorse Sabre - $44000 8/10
Workhorse Sabre - $54000 10/12
I just bought a new sportsmen 10/12 and like you I price checked everything, all in all the sabre is a nice press, I have a javelin 6/8 that Ive had for a long time and still use it beside the sporty, with experience with the jave and the flashbacks if your going to be using them running full colors on the press you'll loose production rate. No two ways about it...I've run my sporty in revolver mode same two jobs on both presses jave p/f/p and sporty in revolver...sportsman smoked the jave...so keep that in mind...I will say the operating interface of the sabre is nice I saw it down at the indy show up close..but there were other concerns when looking at the press. If you can get in a shop and watch the press you narrow it down to...and talk to owners...real world owners have a far different pitch then the sales men. One thing I did miss what the rhino, I would of taken a much better look at that press had I known it was out there...good luck
-
I have "list" prices for the MHM, RPM and M&R presses, but they are from probably over 2 years ago but let me know if you would like me to pay them.
I could totally be wrong, but that price for the S.Roque seems a bit high. You would want a price on a "M" and not a "L" or a "XL" model. Techsupport use to have list pricing on their website for a good number of the presses. Again, I could be totally wrong on the price as we focused our search on the ECO model and not the YOU.
@DurbinDesings, the S.Roque is a amazing press. I absolutely love ours. It is not exclusive to Ryonet however, nor is it a "Ryonet Press". In the states Ryonet just spend the most advertising dollars on it. A downfall of the S.Roque presses is they do not have a "entry level" press. MHM had the SA-EVO, M&R has the Diomandback, and anatol has a few.
I tink without a shadow of a doubt the new UI on the SABRE is currently the best on the market. And something I wouldn't be surprised to see everyone mimic eventually. A huge step forward for them!
Keep your eyes open for the GT3 from M&R, from my understanding it picks up in the few places the Sportsman drops off!
-
To me if you are spending that amount on a press or equipment, does price really matter so much?
Just find one you like that has what you want, and one you feel comfortable with and get it. LOL
-
I view the flashbacks as a afterthought to saving people print heads. If you figure up the slower speed you'd have to run at for the life of a press with a flashback you can easily justify going with full flashes just in faster production alone I would think.
I would go full flashes.
-
I would agree with all said about the flashbacks (even tho i have one and use it occasionally when I need to run a 6 color job).
the Saber is kinda interesting tho in that you can mix and match 'roll-in' flashbacks and quartz flash units... so when you have a complex job that you would need to flash multiple times, you have that option.
That being said, I really am looking forward to seeing the GT3.
Phil/Paul/etc from workhorse or other vendors... did Workhorse license the Revolver patent from M&R or implement something like it? I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the brochures or videos.
-
I would agree with all said about the flashbacks (even tho i have one and use it occasionally when I need to run a 6 color job).
the Saber is kinda interesting tho in that you can mix and match 'roll-in' flashbacks and quartz flash units... so when you have a complex job that you would need to flash multiple times, you have that option.
That being said, I really am looking forward to seeing the GT3.
Phil/Paul/etc from workhorse or other vendors... did Workhorse license the Revolver patent from M&R or implement something like it? I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the brochures or videos.
you should post your Workhorse question in their section as they are monitoring it and will thus not miss it.
pierre
-
doing so now.. didn't know we had manufacturer sections... guess I need to look at the 'index' more often, or at least have coffee ;)
-
I view the flashbacks as a afterthought to saving people print heads. If you figure up the slower speed you'd have to run at for the life of a press with a flashback you can easily justify going with full flashes just in faster production alone I would think.
I would go full flashes.
I disagree... I think a regular flash in a fully functioning head is an after thought... You spend about 5k for a print head that you won't use.
The flash back seems like a forward thinking way to regain that head and money spent. Real world physics mean you have to make sacrifices to accomplish this but there is a sacrifice one way or another.
With the Sabre being able to use both, I think they win that argument hands down... Have your cake and eat it too kind of deal... Though you have to now spend more money, it's not money being thrown away for good.
I always thought that was a good thing about the American brand presses, you don't have to spend money for a print head to have a flash station.
-
Gilligan, have you ever run an auto? ;)
Even if it runs you $5k for a head you rarely use, you will make that up in no time with increased production.
They both have their place though. We can't fit a huge pres in our shop, and if you need that extra print color, it's invaluable.
-
I disagree... I think a regular flash in a fully functioning head is an after thought... You spend about 5k for a print head that you won't use.
Great, for me id rather waste a head than run as slow as ive seen the Javalin running with flashback. Plus still got a active head I can use with different configurations some jobs require. Can move a flash in seconds, how long does it take to move a flashback?
The flash back seems like a forward thinking way to regain that head and money spent. Real world physics mean you have to make sacrifices to accomplish this but there is a sacrifice one way or another.
Yes I agree if you don't mind running slow.
With the Sabre being able to use both, I think they win that argument hands down... Have your cake and eat it too kind of deal... Though you have to now spend more money, it's not money being thrown away for good.
That would be best be answered by what is the max speed a Sabre runs WITH a flashback in it? I know ive seen the Javilins running and its just like watching paint dry. I assume the Saber to be faster though.
I always thought that was a good thing about the American brand presses, you don't have to spend money for a print head to have a flash station.
Other manufactures offer ways to solve that as well without spending for the print head.
Gilligan, have you ever run an auto? ;)
Even if it runs you $5k for a head you rarely use, you will make that up in no time with increased production.
They both have their place though. We can't fit a huge pres in our shop, and if you need that extra print color, it's invaluable.
I agree and yes I think it DOES have a place for small shops with space issues to still have X colors and smaller foot print or shops not wanting to eventually run much faster or that are not super concerned with production speed.
-
The company my press came from had a flash that worked between the print heads, don't know how well that worked out since I've heard nothing about in the market, but it was a nice try to save that print head head. Most shops that worry about speed are a little over mid size to large shops that need to boogie, so I really can't see them buying a press that would hinder there print speed like us little fish do. Where I got a 8/7 with one flash giving me a true six color machine, I'm thinking the shop that needs production speed would go 10/12 or bigger so having a couple of flashes in print heads wouldn't be an issue.
darryl
-
With the Sabre being able to use both, I think they win that argument hands down... Have your cake and eat it too kind of deal... Though you have to now spend more money, it's not money being thrown away for good.
That would be best be answered by what is the max speed a Sabre runs WITH a flashback in it? I know ive seen the Javilins running and its just like watching paint dry. I assume the Saber to be faster though.
I'll agree with some of what has been said about speed, but I'm also keeping in mind that the jave gained us enough business to purchase the new press. As for speed of the sabre, is all dependent on how fast that flash back is set to run...hence its not any faster than a jave. from what I've seen. an for our first press the jave did awesome, being able to run true six colors on it was a saver on some jobs. As for moving the flashbacks on the jave...bout 8-10mins after you move it you have to relevel it two person job. on the sabre there on a stand from what I saw at the indy show so switching heads should be just as fast as with other flashes out there now. I would think you would still need to level it after a move though it your using it in a print station due to the screen above it..but maybe not...
-
Brandt, the Sabre can ALSO use standard roll in flash. Again, you have the option to have your cake and eat it as well. No other manufacture gives you that option. By itself is it better? That's a personal choice and guys with limited space might lean one way over the other. Guys with unlimited space will do like Brad said and just get a larger press and eat the money. Though that still does seem counter intuitive to pay for 16 PRINT heads to then NEVER use three of them.
Seems like putting rotors and calipers on your spare tire. ;)
Brad, you are correct, what can I know about this topic... Doesn't stop one from having an academic discussion and I think we almost said the same thing. Makes me wonder now, have you run an auto? :p
-
not sure of what models they are but I know M&R offers a 10/22 press, and I think that Workhorse in the Falcon line offers the same.. you could do flashing between every color if you could afford the electricity to do so LOL.
-
Brandt, the Sabre can ALSO use standard roll in flash. Again, you have the option to have your cake and eat it as well. No other manufacture gives you that option. By itself is it better? That's a personal choice and guys with limited space might lean one way over the other. Guys with unlimited space will do like Brad said and just get a larger press and eat the money. Though that still does seem counter intuitive to pay for 16 PRINT heads to then NEVER use three of them.
Seems like putting rotors and calipers on your spare tire. ;)
Brad, you are correct, what can I know about this topic... Doesn't stop one from having an academic discussion and I think we almost said the same thing. Makes me wonder now, have you run an auto? :p
He doesn't have a space issue it sound like if he is considering 8/10, he listed a 6/8 also and in THAT context I would take the 8/10 and regular flashes over a 6/8 and flashbacks.
I never said the flash back didn't have a place, but lets not act like it's without drawbacks.... Which is why I mentioned it. He may not have considered it....
-
If we are making this about the original poster than I can say with 100% certain that he has considered the draw backs as he has actually OWNED a Javelin AND Flash Backs... so there is no more better person to make that choice for himself, BUT himself.
I thought he was bringing this up for also the academic aspect of the discussion.
You said they seemed like an after thought... I simply said they were more forward thinking than a standard flash. Lets face it, the flash is literally an after thought in screen printing's history as it came along after the press came along.
-
I was considering that comfortably you cant print a 6 color job on darks on a 8 color press where as the 6 color Sabre can do it albeit slower. I am thinking of all this thru the eyes of the small shop with a single operator so speed is not an issue. If I can do 250-300 pieces per hour with flashbacks in one rotation with one operator then I am more than happy with that.
-
If we are making this about the original poster than I can say with 100% certain that he has considered the draw backs as he has actually OWNED a Javelin AND Flash Backs... so there is no more better person to make that choice for himself, BUT himself.
I thought he was bringing this up for also the academic aspect of the discussion.
You said they seemed like an after thought... I simply said they were more forward thinking than a standard flash. Lets face it, the flash is literally an after thought in screen printing's history as it came along after the press came along.
Forward thinking only if you consider it saves a print head. Not so forward thinking when you consider that for most people the reason they buy a auto to start with is to print much faster. Yes I agree even with a flashback your out doing a manual printer easily.. However are we buying equipment for today, or for the future?
You aren't really wrong in your thoughts, neither am I. Everyone has to weigh those things. I have no idea what press he had or didn't have.
-
This MSRP from 9/27/13 :
Sportsman EX 20X20 10/8 = $57,250 +crate @ $925
Sportsman EX 20X20 12/10 = $71,100 + crate @ $1,050
OR
Sportsman EX 16X18 10/8 = $44,500 + crate @ $825
Sportsman EX 16X18 12/10 = $55,000 + crate @ $950
Hope it helps.
Shane
-
This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.
I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.
I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.
-
This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.
I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.
I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.
Now your on the right track.
-
This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.
I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.
I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.
If you look at the new one press they are like 8-15cfm a lot less so you could get by with a regular compressor and save some money get 5 hp probably with the chiller etc.
Just a thought.
Shane
-
He's also stated that he's only printed ONE 5 color job in his entire 5 years of printing.
-
If you look at the new one press they are like 8-15cfm a lot less so you could get by with a regular compressor and save some money get 5 hp probably with the chiller etc.
Just a thought.
Shane
That is my thought as we already have a 5hp compressor that would easily run any of the new servo/ac machines.
And Gilligan is right (1) 5 color job in 5 years and that was a struggle on the 8 color in one revolution. We are 99.5% 1-3 colors here and thats why the 6 color Sabre looks attractive, it can get a very rare 5-6 color job done when needed and the 1-3 color jobs with ease, functionality and control at a lesser price tag of the 8 and 10 color machines to get the same jobs done.
-
Pricing is always a good thing to have.....but a real conversation would be to speak about features and value. Just to name one.... The step back and multi step back program, you can save the cost of an extra flash by flashing two colors with a single flash. Save time and money!
-
wouldn't a revolver program be better tho than step back?
-
wouldn't a revolver program be better tho than step back?
Not in my opinion...The step back program doesn't have to go all around the press. Just step back one station and flash. Saves lots of time.
-
Not in my opinion...The step back program doesn't have to go all around the press. Just step back one station and flash. Saves lots of time.
My personal experience is in most cases a revolver type program is faster than the step back with a full load. In most, but not all. In either case, I didn't think the time savings was extreme.
-
We run 6-7 color jobs weekly on an 8 color press with one flash. All with one revolution running 42-60 doz./hr.
Chris
-
So Terry are you saying your 8 color press could possibly print all 8 colors in one rotation. Im having a hard time picturing that. Maybe 7 colors cause you have to account for the flash station but then you don't have a cool down spot unless you can print wet on wet the rest of the way. But I think again we are back to an 8 color press somewhat comfortably printing a 6 color image in one rotation. Or am I thinking wrong?
-
Not in my opinion...The step back program doesn't have to go all around the press. Just step back one station and flash. Saves lots of time.
My personal experience is in most cases a revolver type program is faster than the step back with a full load. In most, but not all. In either case, I didn't think the time savings was extreme.
I had a lengthy discussion with Paul back when he was with Anatol. I was more in favor for the Revolver mode over step back but there are certainly times when step back can be more beneficial. I think revolver wins in the long run.
-
So Terry are you saying your 8 color press could possibly print all 8 colors in one rotation. Im having a hard time picturing that. Maybe 7 colors cause you have to account for the flash station but then you don't have a cool down spot unless you can print wet on wet the rest of the way. But I think again we are back to an 8 color press somewhat comfortably printing a 6 color image in one rotation. Or am I thinking wrong?
PM Gerry.
-
huh?
they are actually the same if I am thinking right. The number of moves (going back or forth) is the same. The only difference is the direction of the moves. Am I missing something?
pierre
-
huh?
they are actually the same if I am thinking right. The number of moves (going back or forth) is the same. The only difference is the direction of the moves. Am I missing something?
pierre
Not the same. The step back is only flashing when a multirotation is printing and flashing at the same time. The multirotation 2 times faster. You are right the same amount of moves but the multirotation is doing 2 moves at a time.
-
Step back is slower in other ways. If you are running step back there is longer delay in loading and unloading the garments while the machine cycles. It may bring your production speed down to 250-300 pph. If you can do a revolver mode the second time around the operator and puller could be stacking at the end of the dryer basically eliminating the person at the end of the dryer. You may still only be getting 250-300 pph but more is getting done.
I also believe it's hard on the indexer itself, the constant left/right action especially on an air index.
-
Step back is slower in other ways. If you are running step back there is longer delay in loading and unloading the garments while the machine cycles. It may bring your production speed down to 250-300 pph. If you can do a revolver mode the second time around the operator and puller could be stacking at the end of the dryer basically eliminating the person at the end of the dryer. You may still only be getting 250-300 pph but more is getting done.
I also believe it's hard on the indexer itself, the constant left/right action especially on an air index.
On Anatols website, forgot exactly what page it is on but it said all their presses are now servo index standard.
-
Jon and Brian, thanks~
I was racking my brain trying to think how which method
would be more advantageous. Glad we chose the Revolving world.
-
Back to the flashback, I actually have one from before anatol got in trouble for making them. It has it's place, it is real nice if you have a smaller count press and you are a newbie on autos. You get time to learn the ropes of running a auto. We used it all the time the first year or so we had the press. We rarely use it anymore, if we use a flash on that press we just roll the Hix flash we used for our manual in the head. Works just fine! That being said my use of it now is a bit skewed, the press that uses the knockoff flashback we don't/can't print over 2 colors, so we really don't have a huge use for it. One time we will use it is on a say 50pc. job red on black t's, we just don't burn a underbase and p/f/p. Running with the flashback option I want to say the press can run at like 21dz./hr slower if it is a long print, faster if it is a left crest.
One thing about the flashback, we have started 5 fires with it! First time it happened, we were printing shirts for fire education program for grade schools, the print read "Do your part, be fire smart." That was pretty funny!!! If the garment gets too close to the quarts bulbs or touches them they light up. Pockets suck, I would NEVER do polos with it, and fleece is dicey at times.
Space taken out of the equation, if I had the choice between a flashback or a traditional flash with a extra head, I would go with the extra head.
-
Step back also limits you on what gets flashed doesn't it?
Revolver lets you run around after head 4 and then flash then again after head 5 or whatever.
Brandt, what say you, you are revolver king right?
-
On a traditional(M&R) "revolver" function are you able to have it automatically print different heads on the second revolution, or does it have to be the same heads? There were times we would just let the anatol run around a second time and manually turn heads on and off, but you got to be on your game there! No talking to the press operator! :D Kinda like when we used to print a bunch of numbers, there was the "lonely" policy, that printer was to stay lonely, do not talk to them or interrupt them!
On or S.Roque we can program different print heads, number of strokes, flashes or sequence for up to 9 revolutions. While that sounds neat, the feature goes mostly unused. But if we do need to use it, the printer doesn't need to be "lonely" ;D
-
Yeah you can print/ stroke what you like per revolution as long as you don't turn your brain off and pull the first shirt per revolution. Man can tell you how many times that has happened!
-
Yep, M&R revolver program is fully programmable. Can change which heads print as well as the number of print strokes. We often have smaller jobs where we set head 1 to double stroke white, flash, revolve around to head 1, hit the white again with a single stroke, then print whatever colors we have left.
-
Sounds crazy but with the revolver on smaller jobs if you set it up a job lets say 5 colors and it doesn't print nice you can program it to print in a different sequence instead of moving screens. Let's say you find instead of printing the way it's set 1,F,3,4,5,6 it prints better 1,F, 4,6 then F, 3,5 just program it to run that way.
And yes it does suck pulling a shirt of before it's finished.
-
Honestly, I can say that I have never, ever, ever used any of these programs. It was always drilled into us at an early age that a properly engineered job should never require this. Sorry but IMO these are bandaids.
-
Step back also limits you on what gets flashed doesn't it?
Revolver lets you run around after head 4 and then flash then again after head 5 or whatever.
Brandt, what say you, you are revolver king right?
Revolver can do whatever you want it to. We never use Revolver anymore really unless its like 24pcs and we dont feel like burning a second white for that. Using revolver for us was most often due to lack of print heads. Like trying to print 7 colors on a 8 color press.
The great thing is even when we used to print in revolver that was still factors faster than manual printing. ;)
-
Honestly, I can say that I have never, ever, ever used any of these programs. It was always drilled into us at an early age that a properly engineered job should never require this. Sorry but IMO these are bandaids.
Without a doubt they are Band-Aids, but who wants to just let a deep cut bleed all day? Use the Band-Aid only when needed.
-
Agreed. I come from a different background than many of you.
-
the major difference here, especially when you look at opinions, is that some of us run small jobs... I run a lot of 50-100 pc orders, and they're much faster for me to setup on the auto than on the manual....
but for a simple 1 color print or maybe even 2 or 3 color print with a 'top' white. I run pfpf with the flashback, and then my other colors on top of the white. Is it 'correct'? maybe/maybe not... but... I give good results to our customers at a great price.
Would I run a 250+pc order like that, of course not. But the amount of time saved in burning/registering/setting up another screen far makes up for the 'slowness' of the flashback. Before we got the flashback, we ran in 'revolver' style mode where we were manually flipping the switches on the heads as the shirts went past. Talk about a recipe for disaster there. Plus the slow down.
It's all about making the gear work most efficiently for us.
But... the big thing here for me.. is that whatever our next press is, I want to have the option to at least start with what we're comfortable with, and then move into the 'faster' realm as need be.
-
To bring this back up and not for the purposes of flashbacks or revolver options, do the newer RPM machines or Mu$tangs have the ability to set the flash time from the main control panel?
Also, I assume IF the progressive falcons get the new OS and touch screen that they will have the above ability?
It's something I use every single time I print as I'm a one-man show and if the phone rings or a customer walks in during a print, I may be delayed 15min. When I get back to the press I up the flash time for a revolution or so and then back it down as I print.
Can you do this on a sportsman? Which M&R presses have that functionality?
-
To bring this back up and not for the purposes of flashbacks or revolver options, do the newer RPM machines or Mu$tangs have the ability to set the flash time from the main control panel?
Also, I assume IF the progressive falcons get the new OS and touch screen that they will have the above ability?
It's something I use every single time I print as I'm a one-man show and if the phone rings or a customer walks in during a print, I may be delayed 15min. When I get back to the press I up the flash time for a revolution or so and then back it down as I print.
Can you do this on a sportsman? Which M&R presses have that functionality?
Sportsman does that yup.
-
for a simple 1 color print or maybe even 2 or 3 color print with a 'top' white. I run pfpf with the flashback, and then my other colors on top of the white.
This is slightly off topic, but is this how you ran the job where the yellow was picking up badly? If so, the p/f/p base is definitely the problem. I use to do p/f/p bases when I didn't feel like burning a top white screen, but those prints are horrible even if they look good. They are bulletproof and have a rougher than necessary texture on top colors. You'll also end up with sticky colors A LOT.
I have since started doing halftone bases (either tonal or just 65% for spots) and double stroking, then laying down colors, then the top white. It makes a world of difference if you haven't been doing this. The extra burning and lining up of one screen is worth it in my opinion.
-
for a simple 1 color print or maybe even 2 or 3 color print with a 'top' white. I run pfpf with the flashback, and then my other colors on top of the white.
This is slightly off topic, but is this how you ran the job where the yellow was picking up badly? If so, the p/f/p base is definitely the problem. I use to do p/f/p bases when I didn't feel like burning a top white screen, but those prints are horrible even if they look good. They are bulletproof and have a rougher than necessary texture on top colors. You'll also end up with sticky colors A LOT.
I have since started doing halftone bases (either tonal or just 65% for spots) and double stroking, then laying down colors, then the top white. It makes a world of difference if you haven't been doing this. The extra burning and lining up of one screen is worth it in my opinion.
nope... I rarely run pfpf when underbasing..
the job where the yellow was spreading out was a double-stroke underbase.
I need to try to start doing the 65% halftone base for my spot colors.. what kind of lpi and mesh are you running with that?
-
If it is for spot colors I usually do a 45lpi on 180S. If it is tonal I do 55 on a 225S. For discharge bases I usually just leave them solid so there are fewer issues with dry-in.
-
To bring this back up and not for the purposes of flashbacks or revolver options, do the newer RPM machines or Mu$tangs have the ability to set the flash time from the main control panel?
Also, I assume IF the progressive falcons get the new OS and touch screen that they will have the above ability?
Falcons already have that ability.
-
To bring this back up and not for the purposes of flashbacks or revolver options, do the newer RPM machines or Mu$tangs have the ability to set the flash time from the main control panel?
If I am remembering correctly, the RPM does have this ability.
-
To bring this back up and not for the purposes of flashbacks or revolver options, do the newer RPM machines or Mu$tangs have the ability to set the flash time from the main control panel?
Also, I assume IF the progressive falcons get the new OS and touch screen that they will have the above ability?
Falcons already have that ability.
Ahh nice, didn't know that!
-
To bring this back up and not for the purposes of flashbacks or revolver options, do the newer RPM machines or Mu$tangs have the ability to set the flash time from the main control panel?
If I am remembering correctly, the RPM does have this ability.
Actually they do not have this ability. Not a deal breaker but definitely something to consider when evaluating presses
-
my understanding is it's coming as an upgrade around november.
-
As far as I know the Falcon E is a direct and shameless copy of the Challenger II, had I known the Challenger II's were available in single phase I may have gone that route, but the Falcon has been a good machine with every option we need and then some.... well except for programmable revolver option, but with a 12/14 we rarely need that.
-
I remember being very surprised when I found that the rpm didn't have that.
Seems simple enough.
-
Revolver is a must on our 6 colour sportsman , it has kept our customers happy without saying sort I can't do that.
-
To bring this back up and not for the purposes of flashbacks or revolver options, do the newer RPM machines or Mu$tangs have the ability to set the flash time from the main control panel?
Also, I assume IF the progressive falcons get the new OS and touch screen that they will have the above ability?
It's something I use every single time I print as I'm a one-man show and if the phone rings or a customer walks in during a print, I may be delayed 15min. When I get back to the press I up the flash time for a revolution or so and then back it down as I print.
Can you do this on a sportsman? Which M&R presses have that functionality?
This can easily be handled with the new Red Chili flash. Set the temperature you want the ink to be jelled to and regardless of the flash time you have set the unit will turn off when the ink reaches the set point. Does not have to be controlled by the press!
-
This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.
I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.
I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.
So guys what are your thoughts? I keep going back and forth in my head on this. If I identified the biggest time waster in our process it is film output, screen burning and developing which would make you think of CTS even though we don't have the qty of screens per day to justify it and not only that the advantage of Cts and triloc cannot be utilized on the old Gauntlet.
So that's why my head always goes from one to the other.
-
If the Tri Loc will not work have you thought about making a custom reg system that will work. Is it just the front screen holder that needs to be notched to make it work or is there more to it?
-
This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.
I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.
I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.
So guys what are your thoughts? I keep going back and forth in my head on this. If I identified the biggest time waster in our process it is film output, screen burning and developing which would make you think of CTS even though we don't have the qty of screens per day to justify it and not only that the advantage of Cts and triloc cannot be utilized on the old Gauntlet.
So that's why my head always goes from one to the other.
Printing film doesn't take any extra labor while printing you're free to do other tasks. Exposure and washout won't speed up with a cts, even led will save you only seconds per screen. Most shops print 1-2 color jobs 80% of the time so in my opinion a triloc isn't even worth the time it takes to swap out the pallet for easy 1-2 color jobs. If you expose two images on each end of the screen for jobs then you'd have to load the screen twice in a cts for it to reliably register with a triloc on press.
If your press is worth 10-12k after you put 10k into it for repairs, I'd buy a new press. If it's worth that much right now without refurb I'd probably still buy a new press if it's not going to be usable for a few years reliably.
-
If the Tri Loc will not work have you thought about making a custom reg system that will work. Is it just the front screen holder that needs to be notched to make it work or is there more to it?
Yeah the notches have to be cut and Rich said the platen deflection makes it work less than it should.
-
This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.
I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.
I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.
So guys what are your thoughts? I keep going back and forth in my head on this. If I identified the biggest time waster in our process it is film output, screen burning and developing which would make you think of CTS even though we don't have the qty of screens per day to justify it and not only that the advantage of Cts and triloc cannot be utilized on the old Gauntlet.
So that's why my head always goes from one to the other.
Printing film doesn't take any extra labor while printing you're free to do other tasks. Exposure and washout won't speed up with a cts, even led will save you only seconds per screen. Most shops print 1-2 color jobs 80% of the time so in my opinion a triloc isn't even worth the time it takes to swap out the pallet for easy 1-2 color jobs. If you expose two images on each end of the screen for jobs then you'd have to load the screen twice in a cts for it to reliably register with a triloc on press.
If your press is worth 10-12k after you put 10k into it for repairs, I'd buy a new press. If it's worth that much right now without refurb I'd probably still buy a new press if it's not going to be usable for a few years reliably.
Great point taken there
-
This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.
I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.
I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.
So guys what are your thoughts? I keep going back and forth in my head on this. If I identified the biggest time waster in our process it is film output, screen burning and developing which would make you think of CTS even though we don't have the qty of screens per day to justify it and not only that the advantage of Cts and triloc cannot be utilized on the old Gauntlet.
So that's why my head always goes from one to the other.
Printing film doesn't take any extra labor while printing you're free to do other tasks. Exposure and washout won't speed up with a cts, even led will save you only seconds per screen. Most shops print 1-2 color jobs 80% of the time so in my opinion a triloc isn't even worth the time it takes to swap out the pallet for easy 1-2 color jobs. If you expose two images on each end of the screen for jobs then you'd have to load the screen twice in a cts for it to reliably register with a triloc on press.
If your press is worth 10-12k after you put 10k into it for repairs, I'd buy a new press. If it's worth that much right now without refurb I'd probably still buy a new press if it's not going to be usable for a few years reliably.
actually to be honest, a CTS does speed things up immensely. Knowing that every screen is set up, with the image placed with the correct position 100% of the time, as well as not having to double check that films line up, and that it all printed ok, saves a ton of time.
We went from an average of 5-10 mins in setting up a 1 color film with our newman reg. system (from printing the film, to putting it on the carrier sheet, to putting it on the screen, to exposing it), to just under 40 seconds with exposure.
the majority of our jobs are 1 colors, but in the past two weeks we've done about a 6-8 color jobs, and even without using a registration system, it speeds up our set up.
-
Most shops print 1-2 color jobs 80% of the time so in my opinion a triloc isn't even worth the time it takes to swap out the pallet for easy 1-2 color jobs.
Please tell me how to locate 1-2 color jobs. We do about 1-2 of those a month.
-
This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.
I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.
I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.
So guys what are your thoughts? I keep going back and forth in my head on this. If I identified the biggest time waster in our process it is film output, screen burning and developing which would make you think of CTS even though we don't have the qty of screens per day to justify it and not only that the advantage of Cts and triloc cannot be utilized on the old Gauntlet.
So that's why my head always goes from one to the other.
Printing film doesn't take any extra labor while printing you're free to do other tasks. Exposure and washout won't speed up with a cts, even led will save you only seconds per screen. Most shops print 1-2 color jobs 80% of the time so in my opinion a triloc isn't even worth the time it takes to swap out the pallet for easy 1-2 color jobs. If you expose two images on each end of the screen for jobs then you'd have to load the screen twice in a cts for it to reliably register with a triloc on press.
If your press is worth 10-12k after you put 10k into it for repairs, I'd buy a new press. If it's worth that much right now without refurb I'd probably still buy a new press if it's not going to be usable for a few years reliably.
actually to be honest, a CTS does speed things up immensely. Knowing that every screen is set up, with the image placed with the correct position 100% of the time, as well as not having to double check that films line up, and that it all printed ok, saves a ton of time.
We went from an average of 5-10 mins in setting up a 1 color film with our newman reg. system (from printing the film, to putting it on the carrier sheet, to putting it on the screen, to exposing it), to just under 40 seconds with exposure.
the majority of our jobs are 1 colors, but in the past two weeks we've done about a 6-8 color jobs, and even without using a registration system, it speeds up our set up.
If you have a stack of films ready to tape to a reverse-lit registration board or modified triloc board without the carrier sheets, I'd argue that it's just as fast with a single operator. Now, nothing will match the precision of computer placed images on the screen and that level of accuracy is awesome for those high color count jobs that some shops specialize in. MOST mom and pop shops are printing local orders for customers who want cheap event, club, church, family reunion shirts that 9 times out of ten are a one color front & back that you can expose on one screen then flip the screen 180 degrees midway through the job to print the backs.
Brandt, it's called local business lol. You gotta open your doors and answer the phone to get the onesie twosies!
-
This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.
I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.
I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.
So guys what are your thoughts? I keep going back and forth in my head on this. If I identified the biggest time waster in our process it is film output, screen burning and developing which would make you think of CTS even though we don't have the qty of screens per day to justify it and not only that the advantage of Cts and triloc cannot be utilized on the old Gauntlet.
So that's why my head always goes from one to the other.
Printing film doesn't take any extra labor while printing you're free to do other tasks. Exposure and washout won't speed up with a cts, even led will save you only seconds per screen. Most shops print 1-2 color jobs 80% of the time so in my opinion a triloc isn't even worth the time it takes to swap out the pallet for easy 1-2 color jobs. If you expose two images on each end of the screen for jobs then you'd have to load the screen twice in a cts for it to reliably register with a triloc on press.
If your press is worth 10-12k after you put 10k into it for repairs, I'd buy a new press. If it's worth that much right now without refurb I'd probably still buy a new press if it's not going to be usable for a few years reliably.
actually to be honest, a CTS does speed things up immensely. Knowing that every screen is set up, with the image placed with the correct position 100% of the time, as well as not having to double check that films line up, and that it all printed ok, saves a ton of time.
We went from an average of 5-10 mins in setting up a 1 color film with our newman reg. system (from printing the film, to putting it on the carrier sheet, to putting it on the screen, to exposing it), to just under 40 seconds with exposure.
the majority of our jobs are 1 colors, but in the past two weeks we've done about a 6-8 color jobs, and even without using a registration system, it speeds up our set up.
If you have a stack of films ready to tape to a reverse-lit registration board or modified triloc board without the carrier sheets, I'd argue that it's just as fast with a single operator. Now, nothing will match the precision of computer placed images on the screen and that level of accuracy is awesome for those high color count jobs that some shops specialize in. MOST mom and pop shops are printing local orders for customers who want cheap event, club, church, family reunion shirts that 9 times out of ten are a one color front & back that you can expose on one screen then flip the screen 180 degrees midway through the job to print the backs.
Brandt, it's called local business lol. You gotta open your doors and answer the phone to get the onesie twosies!
Ya ya LOL
-
tri-loc will work on ANY GAUNTLET! It does have to be notched, but I did it and its super easy on my first week of screenprinting back in the 90's. Also, forget about trying to justify enough screens to own a cts! So many benefits of having one, it doesn't matter how many screens you are doing. I could give a long list.
-
No brainer for me. The press is the heart of the business. Every other piece of equipment supports getting to/from press. It's also the most expensive equipment in your shop. Get a nice 8/10 with ac/servo and be done with it. Even if you have to keep saving.
-
Most shops print 1-2 color jobs 80% of the time so in my opinion a triloc isn't even worth the time it takes to swap out the pallet for easy 1-2 color jobs. If you expose two images on each end of the screen for jobs then you'd have to load the screen twice in a cts for it to reliably register with a triloc on press.
I have to say complete disagreement, mind you I built my own FPU and on-press regi jig. The FPU doesn't require carrier sheets and the on-press jig fit on a platen so we don't have to remove one. We use it even when setting up a 1 color black print on whites as it's just plain faster than doing it by eye.