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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: cory.haynes.54 on June 30, 2014, 04:53:44 AM
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I'm currently talking to both anatol and m&r sales reps. Upgrading my home setup to automatic. Looking at the volt 8/7 or diamondback 8/6. I know most of you are anti anatol for whatever reason, but I have called multiple anatol user's to ask about their experience and I have yet to find a negative review. Noise is an issue for me as I am in a neighborhood, no hoa. I have researched how to build a sound proof container for a compressor but its pricey. I just want some opinions. Preferably from people that own the equipment. Thanks.
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Go with a Screw Compressor, they are not loud.
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I screw compressor is quieter but spendy. I would have to think a compressor would not be a huge noise issue, especially if you are considering some type of noise suppression. Think about it, how many people have neighbors that are car buffs? A lot of them will have compressors running in their garage. I think a bigger issue would actually be YOU having to listen to the compressor.
One thing to keep in mind if you are thinking about making a enclosure around a compressor is to leave plenty of ventilation.
If you are really considering running a auto at your house, I think there are a lot more things that could pose a issue other than compressor noise.
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I would think for his sanity more than anything the screw compressor would be the only way to go, plus then there is not really any chance at a noise issue for the neighbors. Like Alex said though could be other issues running something like that at a home.
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I had two other thoughts-
What kind(how many amps? Single phase?) of electrical service do you have at your house?
What state are you in? The members here may be able to help you out finding a shop close to you that is running the brands you are looking at. The Volt is probably too new to find some in production I am assuming. But without a doubt you should be able to find some diomandback users.
Typically the issues that most people have had with anatol has been service and support after the sale. anatol has again said that that is the past and things have changed which will be good news for new customers if that is the situation.
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I had two other thoughts-
What kind(how many amps? Single phase?) of electrical service do you have at your house?
What state are you in? The members here may be able to help you out finding a shop close to you that is running the brands you are looking at. The Volt is probably too new to find some in production I am assuming. But without a doubt you should be able to find some diomandback users.
Typically the issues that most people have had with anatol has been service and support after the sale. anatol has again said that that is the past and things have changed which will be good news for new customers if that is the situation.
At all M&R trade shows we are installing the same compressor Brandt is running so people can see the compressor makes almost no noise. We use it like a table and people lean on it with most not even knowing it's running!
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Brandt or Rich, can you guys post what compressor you are using?
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Brandt or Rich, can you guys post what compressor you are using?
Kaiser 5 hp
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Is the Volt and Diamondback even the same level press? Thought the Volt started near $40k? Might look into the Sabre as well. The UI on the Sabre press is impressive.
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those Kaiser units are awesome...
Rich is right on that you wouldn't even know it's running.
I think the noise rating on those is like 61db or something insanely low... for reference, the standard conversation level is like 62db.
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Is the Volt and Diamondback even the same level press? Thought the Volt started near $40k? Might look into the Sabre as well. The UI on the Sabre press is impressive.
$40k?! Ya, at that point I would heavily advise you to check out the Sabre.
For some reason I thought the Volt was mid to upper 20's.
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6 color/8 station Saber is like 39k with a flashback or quartz press, including installation.
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Isn't a Sportsman servo/ac 6/8 around that same price?
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At 40k you could afford a dback and a screw compressor in just the cost of the Volt..
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Is the Volt and Diamondback even the same level press? Thought the Volt started near $40k? Might look into the Sabre as well. The UI on the Sabre press is impressive.
$40k?! Ya, at that point I would heavily advise you to check out the Sabre.
For some reason I thought the Volt was mid to upper 20's.
If someone would like to speak to a Volt owners contact me, I will be happy to give you names and shop telephone numbers that will tell you all about the VOLT, or any press we develop. Anatol has spent millions of dollars in R&D to develop the best and most reliable presses on the market. We have spent thousand and thousands of dollars to revamp our part department to service screen printers needs, to insure we have your press part in stock. We have spent countless hours training our staff to service our customer needs. To insure prompt accurate response to the questions or concerns you have about your press. If you have first hand knowledge of the VOLT please chime in with your comments. I welcome first hand knowledge about the press on this board.
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Is the Volt and Diamondback even the same level press? Thought the Volt started near $40k? Might look into the Sabre as well. The UI on the Sabre press is impressive.
$40k?! Ya, at that point I would heavily advise you to check out the Sabre.
For some reason I thought the Volt was mid to upper 20's.
The Sabre Press still needs a compressor ! It's not all electric. The Volt doesn't need a compressor or a chiller.
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6 color/8 station Saber is like 39k with a flashback or quartz press, including installation.
Forgot to add the price of the compressor and chiller !
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Personally, I would love to see the volt run. I think this sort of thinking is what the industry needs. NOKIA abandoned their full-screen, single-button smartphone around 2000 thinking it wasn't marketable. They had Apple beat by years.
Also, may I remind everybody that M&R adjusted their customer service and tech support years ago as well. Beating them now would be tough task to say the least.
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Rotary Screw compressor is out of the picture. Its 5 times more expensive than your typical two stage. I was brought up on a sportsman so I know m&r. I also know that they havent really added any new technology other than a touch screen in like 10 years. Im getting a great deal from anatol and probably shouldnt post the price but it is not 40k. I think it does normally retail in that range. Anatol seems to be more interested in getting my business than m&r. I felt the same way when I spoke with their reps at iss ft worth last year. I spoke with aj from northstar for 3 hours about a titan. When I tried to talk to the m&r rep he handed me some literature and turned his back. I have 200 amp service. My electrician says it shouldnt be an issue. The one thing that makes me nervous is the lack of service from anatol. Their sales rep, who has been awesome, admits they had a bad service rep in the past but they dropped him and now have some some great techs. He also said that most repairs are handled via skype, does that seem like a bad idea. Ive worked on electronics before but....
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6 color/8 station Saber is like 39k with a flashback or quartz press, including installation.
Forgot to add the price of the compressor and chiller !
The Sabre 6 color only needs 5 cfm. You can get a 3hp compressor and chiller for about $1600!!!
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Our goal is that with the Volt you won't need as much customer service support. NO air tubes, fittings or other parts to have air leaks. Less maintenance. 52 percent more energy efficient. MK, please, I would be happy to arrange a press visit for you!
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Cory.Haynes- What state are you in? There are some real good independent techs that will work on anatols
anaolhelp/Terry- Is the Volt MSPR around $40K? You don't need to give exact prices, but is that in the close neighborhood?
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Im in oklahoma city
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Im in oklahoma city
Man, you are kinda right in the middle! SpotColor Supply has had good things said about their help with anatol's. There is a guy up here in MN that works on them, and The OTS is out in CA and they are killer on them! There may be others also, but those are the ones I know of.
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Ok thanks
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Whats the current draw on the Volt?
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This is an interesting thread.
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Whats the current draw on the Volt?
Think it was 30A(220 Single Phase) without any flashes, if I remember correctly
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Rotary Screw compressor is out of the picture. Its 5 times more expensive than your typical two stage. I was brought up on a sportsman so I know m&r. I also know that they havent really added any new technology other than a touch screen in like 10 years. Im getting a great deal from anatol and probably shouldnt post the price but it is not 40k. I think it does normally retail in that range. Anatol seems to be more interested in getting my business than m&r. I felt the same way when I spoke with their reps at iss ft worth last year. I spoke with aj from northstar for 3 hours about a titan. When I tried to talk to the m&r rep he handed me some literature and turned his back. I have 200 amp service. My electrician says it shouldnt be an issue. The one thing that makes me nervous is the lack of service from anatol. Their sales rep, who has been awesome, admits they had a bad service rep in the past but they dropped him and now have some some great techs. He also said that most repairs are handled via skype, does that seem like a bad idea. Ive worked on electronics before but....
I can't speak about M&R, but handing you "Literature and turning his backs" won't happen on my watch. We want to earn your business! We won't rely on past reputation when it comes to making presses, we constantly look for new and different ways to make your life and job easier. I have said it before and will say it again any company that says they are perfect, isn't telling the truth, We have stumbled, but we learned from our mistakes. We have improved our customer service to the tune of a 96% satisfaction but that's not good enough, we won't stop till we have 100% satisfaction.( well we will try) We are looking at the present and the future to give you the best and most innovative screen printing presses on the market today. Cory which ever press you choose, I am confident that it will be the correct choice for your company's needs.
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Whats the current draw on the Volt?
Think it was 30A(220 Single Phase) without any flashes, if I remember correctly
So a good 50-60A time you add 1 flash. Could be a good bit more with 2 flashes.
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Im getting a great deal from anatol and probably shouldnt post the price but it is not 40k. I think it does normally retail in that range. Anatol seems to be more interested in getting my business than m&r.
I have heard this same thing here with a local printer I contract for. Anatol quoted him a VERY good price on a Horizon. Less than I was quoted 3 years ago. Still interested in more videos of the Volt running or hearing from owners. Same for the sabre
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Cory.Haynes- What state are you in? There are some real good independent techs that will work on anatols
anaolhelp/Terry- Is the Volt MSPR around $40K? You don't need to give exact prices, but is that in the close neighborhood?
It all depends TCT on image size and print heads. We go from 15"x 16" image size to 21"x 28" image size. From 2 print heads to 18 print heads. I will tell you that we are very competitive with any press in the market, when you consider that it is a all servo press and electronic print heads and there is no need to compressor and a chiller. I think you will find bottom line that we are actually less expensive. Plus we don't charge for installation and training, just the techs travel.
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Whats the current draw on the Volt?
Think it was 30A(220 Single Phase) without any flashes, if I remember correctly
So a good 50-60A time you add 1 flash. Could be a good bit more with 2 flashes.
More than that if you're single phase. 16x18 flash pulls 57amps, add electric press 6/8 @ 27amps and you're at 84amps. Still well within 200 amp service but your lights might dim/flicker warming up the flash.
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Whats the current draw on the Volt?
Think it was 30A(220 Single Phase) without any flashes, if I remember correctly
Again it depends on the configuration of the press.....I will say it is less than a pneumatic press with a compressor and a chiller. Plus (as I already stated) it is 52% more energy efficient.
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Not all presses and flashes pull that much. To run the Workhorse Sabre press with one flashback, 3hp compressor and chiller you are looking at 51 amps total. To add another flashback you would add another 20 amps.
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the electric use of the press (as long as it's single phase for residential install), is kinda a moot point here:
Either the press consumes the amps, or the air compressor + chiller + press PLC + consumes the amps.
Our electric draw:
Compressor (5hp old school) - 30 amp breaker (around 26amps draw when running)
Chiller 20amp breaker, around 2-3amps or so running
Press - same breaker as the chiller, about 2-3amps or so running
Flash - 30 amp breaker -- 25 amps running
right there, we're nearly at 60 amps...
if we were to get a Volt, it would be roughly the same amp draw... assuming we got rid of the compressor.. however, we use the compressor for other things in the shop, including blowing out screens, so we'd have one anyways.
BTW, Terry: is the Volt available with air locks for the screens?
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Jvanick, the volt doesn't come with air locks for screens. If that's a feature you must have we still have a full line of pneumatic presses to accommodate the shop owners need.
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Even thought I run an Anatol press, let me ask this question, at a show years back I was looking at a Brown auto and it looked very heavy, how heavy is an Anatol Volt?
Darryl
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wait, how do you lock screens down? Is there another type of quick lock system?
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wait, how do you lock screens down? Is there another type of quick lock system?
Screw 'em down..... anatol is going to need to find a way around this. On a auto I just can't imagine trying to tell a customer they need to manually screw the clamps down.
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Even thought I run an Anatol press, let me ask this question, at a show years back I was looking at a Brown auto and it looked very heavy, how heavy is an Anatol Volt?
Darryl
Great question, the Volt is built on the same format as our pneumatic presses to issue sturdiness and reliability. I am not avoiding the question, but again it depends on the configuration of the press to answer you with any accuracy. Thank you for your business, we appreciate the fact you are running a Anatol Press
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wait, how do you lock screens down? Is there another type of quick lock system?
Screw 'em down..... anatol is going to need to find a way around this. On a auto I just can't imagine trying to tell a customer they need to manually screw the clamps down.
TCT, I understand your concern....we believe that the benefits of the VOLT, far outweigh the fact that you have to manually tighten the screw.
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wait, how do you lock screens down? Is there another type of quick lock system?
Screw 'em down..... anatol is going to need to find a way around this. On a auto I just can't imagine trying to tell a customer they need to manually screw the clamps down.
Maybe they will come up with some kind of electric lock downs that you can flip like an air lock, but I would not worry about locking screens down manually if the micros could be adjusted and locked in with out unclamping the screens, like I saw on some other press
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3deep, thanks for the great idea, maybe I should run to the Patent Office now. Micros can be adjust after you lock down the screens, so no worries there
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I like the concept of the Volt, but I really think Anatol needs to look heavily at adding some kind of a quick lock system. I never saw the need for air locks, but when I got my Horizon I realized it was the greatest thing ever. I would still screw down the manual locks for piece of mind. I really don't think anyone that has experience with a "quick lock" system would be willing to give them up. And I do know how good the Anatol micros are.
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I really don't think anyone that has experience with a "quick lock" system would be willing to give them up.
I am assuming that no one with a auto currently would be looking at a volt, if you have the air already in your shop the volt losses it's selling point....
Does anyone know if the Brown Electraprint has a clamping system? Or even that Graphica press that is all electric, I wonder how that one clamps.
Terry, are you able to give us a MSRP on the volt m-series, 7/8? I am not trying to be a dick here, just wanted to know the facts.
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Too late Alex. ;)
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I agree that Anatol micros are great, very intuitive and accurate with minimal jump or whip. Left-Right linear motion feels so nice after using "X-Y" micros.
I must also agree that I don't see where an all-electric press fits in unless the price is very low and/or aimed for garage printers (which I am proud to have been at one time). An automated clamping for screens is pretty much essential for using a pre-reg system, even if it just needs a pancake compressor, I'd look into offering the option.
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So if im coming from a manual that has manual clamps am I really going to wish I had pneumatic clamps?
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Yes. Though you may not realize it.
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Your not going to miss what you never had but once you try air locks you'll wonder how you lived without them. As simple as it is they are one of the best things to have.
As far as noise of the compressor yes a screw is more expensive but look at the big picture. I think when you look at the total press package price when it's all said and done the cost will be about the same across the board. There are also some nice piston compressors that are relatively quiet or come with factory sound dampening. If you were to build an enclosure, could even be a room like a closet it shouldn't cost more then a few hundred dollars.
I would like to see how Anatol comes up with the 52% more efficient number, seems kind of far fetched or a play on numbers.
I do not know which Anatol owners you have spoke with but keep this in mind and I am not putting anyone down but. How long have they had the press, is it their first, how long have they had or been using autos, model, etc. Point being if it's the only auto that they have ever owned or operated or new at it how can they form an opinion on what's good or not. Find someone who has a Volt and best option would be to go and run it for a day.
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wait, how do you lock screens down? Is there another type of quick lock system?
Screw 'em down..... anatol is going to need to find a way around this. On a auto I just can't imagine trying to tell a customer they need to manually screw the clamps down.
TCT, I understand your concern....we believe that the benefits of the VOLT, far outweigh the fact that you have to manually tighten the screw.
Thats an opinion Anatol has made but they are not printers we are and I personally would never in a million years buy a press that did not have automatic screen locks, and I could bet most all other printers in the world.
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With an angle grinder and a drill you can certainly 'add your own' airlocks (I did).. but then again, if you're buying a new press, you certainly don't want to be hacking it up day one.
FWIW: I would never own a press without air locks either... add in air squeegee/floodbar locks too... doesn't seem like it would make a huge difference, but on those little 20-30 piece jobs that are easier to setup and run on the auto, it's really nice to have both.
Idea for Terry/Anatol you could probably easily integrate a small pancake or heck, even a little airbrush compressor into the base to just handle the air locks and increase the amount of people interested in the press... probably cheaper than electric solenoids for all of those features as well...
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Would never own a press without air locks.
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Would never own a press without air locks.
same here
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Here is what I see, Anatol is trying to fill a need in the market they believe is there, I don't fault them for that. Seems like they haven't considered being a actual printer fully when doing so though. IMO if I am a Anatol guy and I must have a Anatol id buy the Titan or Horizon and add a compressor far before dealing with a all electric press that has no screen lock downs.
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cory.haynes- Another thing to think about(Terry hopefully you and your team can take this as constructive criticism) which if I am not mistaken we covered in another thread, is the volt(Terry PLEASE correct me if I am wrong here) does not have the ability to adjust squeegee or flood pressure. While the flood pressure may only be a very minimal issue, not being able to adjust squeegee pressure is a major issue. You lose a lot of control there. The difference we use between a discharge print and say a "1 hit white" is crucial. You can compensate for that in a few ways(squeegee angle, off contact, print speed) but all you are doing at that point is putting a band aid on the problem.
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I do not know which Anatol owners you have spoke with but keep this in mind and I am not putting anyone down but. How long have they had the press, is it their first, how long have they had or been using autos, model, etc. Point being if it's the only auto that they have ever owned or operated or new at it how can they form an opinion on what's good or not. Find someone who has a Volt and best option would be to go and run it for a day.
Take a guy who has only rode a horse and give him a car that you have to jump start every day, has no AC, and no power steering... He's beyond himself happy because he isn't riding that horse for hundreds of miles a day, can cover more ground and isn't saddle sore.
How many of us would pay $15k for that car vs one of the other $15k cars on the market that has all these basic features? Obviously once you have creature comforts you have a hard time ever thinking about living without them. I'd never buy a car with no AC down here in the south!
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In due time no matter what is said here the Volt will make it's mark in the printing world or sink like a ship...some companies are bold and try new things (first to the market) while others sit back and watch then take action, but time will tell.
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In due time no matter what is said here the Volt will make it's mark in the printing world or sink like a ship...some companies are bold and try new things (first to the market) while others sit back and watch then take action, but time will tell.
If electric presses were going to take the world by storm wouldn't Brown be blowing our minds right now? Anatol isn't first to market.
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I do not know which Anatol owners you have spoke with but keep this in mind and I am not putting anyone down but. How long have they had the press, is it their first, how long have they had or been using autos, model, etc. Point being if it's the only auto that they have ever owned or operated or new at it how can they form an opinion on what's good or not. Find someone who has a Volt and best option would be to go and run it for a day.
Take a guy who has only rode a horse and give him a car that you have to jump start every day, has no AC, and no power steering... He's beyond himself happy because he isn't riding that horse for hundreds of miles a day, can cover more ground and isn't saddle sore.
How many of us would pay $15k for that car vs one of the other $15k cars on the market that has all these basic features? Obviously once you have creature comforts you have a hard time ever thinking about living without them. I'd never buy a car with no AC down here in the south!
That is an important aspect of customer satisfaction that can work for or against a manufacturer. When I was starting my research for autos in the beginning I didn't take into account some of the favorable reviews that some machines were getting that the owner was coming from a junk manual press and not to sound too critical, their opinion of how great the press was carried very little weight in the grand scheme of things versus someone who had ran multiple brands and types of automatics. I used to get a kick out of some of the posts regarding "which automatic to buy" when some of the guys who were very outspoken on how great their press was had never even seen another brand or model of auto than what was in their own shop. It's good that they're happy, I don't want to take away that point, but like Gilligan said, it has to be put in proper perspective sometimes and considering the source of the happiness just as much as what it is they're saying is paramount.
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Where did I say Anatol was first to market? also Brown is still in business so someone is using there press.
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I like the direction of this thread. It's not bashing anyone, but providing Anatol with some great feedback from printers in the market to how they can make some slight upgrades to their product and really meet printers needs.
The long term results could be a win for the manufacturer and a win for the end user.
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I do not know which Anatol owners you have spoke with but keep this in mind and I am not putting anyone down but. How long have they had the press, is it their first, how long have they had or been using autos, model, etc. Point being if it's the only auto that they have ever owned or operated or new at it how can they form an opinion on what's good or not. Find someone who has a Volt and best option would be to go and run it for a day.
Take a guy who has only rode a horse and give him a car that you have to jump start every day, has no AC, and no power steering... He's beyond himself happy because he isn't riding that horse for hundreds of miles a day, can cover more ground and isn't saddle sore.
How many of us would pay $15k for that car vs one of the other $15k cars on the market that has all these basic features? Obviously once you have creature comforts you have a hard time ever thinking about living without them. I'd never buy a car with no AC down here in the south!
That is an important aspect of customer satisfaction that can work for or against a manufacturer. When I was starting my research for autos in the beginning I didn't take into account some of the favorable reviews that some machines were getting that the owner was coming from a junk manual press and not to sound too critical, their opinion of how great the press was carried very little weight in the grand scheme of things versus someone who had ran multiple brands and types of automatics. I used to get a kick out of some of the posts regarding "which automatic to buy" when some of the guys who were very outspoken on how great their press was had never even seen another brand or model of auto than what was in their own shop. It's good that they're happy, I don't want to take away that point, but like Gilligan said, it has to be put in proper perspective sometimes and considering the source of the happiness just as much as what it is they're saying is paramount.
Alan, I disagreed with you on this one, If I'm press shopping and I go to your shop and ask you about the RPM I'd expect for you to tell me everything you like and dislike about your press, I wouldn't expect for you to know about all the other brands unless you've been around forever and have use them all.
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I think the point is being missed. If you have been running a 4/1 silver press and you move up to a old Tuf Javelin that uses guide blocks instead of wheels it would be an improvement. As far as that person knows it's the best thing out there. It leaks air, pallets are a pain to change, thing kicks back if air pressure drops below a certain point or what ever it's still in this persons eyes the greatest thing in the world. On the other hand if a someone has been pulling a squeegee for 10 years and moves into a new auto again it's an improvement but I would still not ask his opinion on the press until he had run it for a year or so. That would give him time to get to know the press and all it's ins and outs good and bad. Then when asked about the machine the response would be I should have got this feature or this is a PIA or should have done this or that or for this type of work it's great etc.
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I think the point is being missed. If you have been running a 4/1 silver press and you move up to a old Tuf Javelin that uses guide blocks instead of wheels it would be an improvement. As far as that person knows it's the best thing out there. It leaks air, pallets are a pain to change, thing kicks back if air pressure drops below a certain point or what ever it's still in this persons eyes the greatest thing in the world. On the other hand if a someone has been pulling a squeegee for 10 years and moves into a new auto again it's an improvement but I would still not ask his opinion on the press until he had run it for a year or so. That would give him time to get to know the press and all it's ins and outs good and bad. Then when asked about the machine the response would be I should have got this feature or this is a PIA or should have done this or that or for this type of work it's great etc.
I agreed with this, once you've run your press a fair amount of time.
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In due time no matter what is said here the Volt will make it's mark in the printing world or sink like a ship...some companies are bold and try new things (first to the market) while others sit back and watch then take action, but time will tell.
Some companies wait for others to invent innovative things then use their manufacturing might to out do and out sell all others.
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I would hope Anatol sees all this as constructive criticism. A press that you have to manually lock the screens is a huge turn off to nearly every existing automatic printer. That would be fine if they are only targeting the manual to auto market. Anatol needs to listen and consider what all of us existing auto printers have to say.
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I do not know which Anatol owners you have spoke with but keep this in mind and I am not putting anyone down but. How long have they had the press, is it their first, how long have they had or been using autos, model, etc. Point being if it's the only auto that they have ever owned or operated or new at it how can they form an opinion on what's good or not. Find someone who has a Volt and best option would be to go and run it for a day.
Take a guy who has only rode a horse and give him a car that you have to jump start every day, has no AC, and no power steering... He's beyond himself happy because he isn't riding that horse for hundreds of miles a day, can cover more ground and isn't saddle sore.
How many of us would pay $15k for that car vs one of the other $15k cars on the market that has all these basic features? Obviously once you have creature comforts you have a hard time ever thinking about living without them. I'd never buy a car with no AC down here in the south!
That is an important aspect of customer satisfaction that can work for or against a manufacturer. When I was starting my research for autos in the beginning I didn't take into account some of the favorable reviews that some machines were getting that the owner was coming from a junk manual press and not to sound too critical, their opinion of how great the press was carried very little weight in the grand scheme of things versus someone who had ran multiple brands and types of automatics. I used to get a kick out of some of the posts regarding "which automatic to buy" when some of the guys who were very outspoken on how great their press was had never even seen another brand or model of auto than what was in their own shop. It's good that they're happy, I don't want to take away that point, but like Gilligan said, it has to be put in proper perspective sometimes and considering the source of the happiness just as much as what it is they're saying is paramount.
Alan, I disagreed with you on this one, If I'm press shopping and I go to your shop and ask you about the RPM I'd expect for you to tell me everything you like and dislike about your press, I wouldn't expect for you to know about all the other brands unless you've been around forever and have use them all.
I understand what you're saying, but that's different context to what I was trying to say ( I didn't do a good job of that). It's a buying process where you have to narrow down your search to the best choice for your shop. Back in the day there were always these threads about which auto to buy and every thread would have comments from guys who would not say anything at all based on features but generic terms like they really love their press and they KNOW they made the right decision for their shop. Yet they have never seen another auto at a show or shop, they spoke to a salesperson a few times and didn't do much due diligence and literally bought the first press they could. In my mind, taking any advice from someone like that about which auto to buy would be dumb. Now if the guy actually said something like how he likes that his press has central off contact but his press only has 2 settings and you had to use a wrench to change the settings then his information on how great his press' off contact feature is, is bad info. You can't keep people from giving their 2 cents on things they know nothing about but you better do your own research and know when to tell if info is worth keeping or not. I know it's not the problem it used to be, not even close but I do remember getting a good laugh out of some of the comments I read on "which auto to buy" threads back on sp.net. I know most people were genuinely trying to help and I shouldn't be critical but I'm just trying to make a point that everything needs perspective and proper context when considering such a huge purchase. I would hope that nobody would consider my opinion of the new Corvette as being completely awesome when I've never even sat in one. Bad analogy but oh well.
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Where did I say Anatol was first to market? also Brown is still in business so someone is using there press.
Well, Darryl, you did kind of say "some manufactures take charge and create new products while others just sit back and wait to see what's going on." That kind of implies that Anatol is the innovator by copying what Brown did over 10 years ago.
Nothing but love man!
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It has been a great thread, I appreciate all your feedback.
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I really appreciate all this guys, m&r reps contacted me because of this thread and now they have also made me an offer on a diamond back w/ a rotary screw 5 hp as part of the package. Any thoughts on the diamondback c 8/6?
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I really appreciate all this guys, m&r reps contacted me because of this thread and now they have also made me an offer on a diamond back w/ a rotary screw 5 hp as part of the package. Any thoughts on the diamondback c 8/6?
simple suggestion - I would start a new thread on a DB..you'll get some great input.
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DB?
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Nvm im dumb
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If you are thinking of switching gears - Might want to look at an Anatol Titan with a rotary screw compressor as well.
Michael Jirasek
Anatol
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If you are thinking of switching gears - Might want to look at an Anatol Titan with a rotary screw compressor as well.
Michael Jirasek
Anatol
Apples to Apples I would say compare a Titan or Horizon to the Diamondback. The Volt seems to be a different animal.
***edit: Upon a quick look I see the Titan is also a mini. I would say compare a full size Horizon to the Diamondback.***
I would look at a full size Horizon, not a mini or Titan. Unless you absolutely could not fit it. Both the Horizon and Diamondback are great presses and should be priced close to each other. There's a few pros and cons between the two.
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If space is an issue this used Titan is a pretty good buy if you ask me.
http://www.digitsmith.com/2010-anatol-titan-8-6-automatic-press-rapid-wave-quartz-flash-40033.html (http://www.digitsmith.com/2010-anatol-titan-8-6-automatic-press-rapid-wave-quartz-flash-40033.html)
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If you are thinking of switching gears - Might want to look at an Anatol Titan with a rotary screw compressor as well.
Michael Jirasek
Anatol
Apples to Apples I would say compare a Titan or Horizon to the Diamondback. The Volt seems to be a different animal.
I would look at a full size Horizon, not a mini or Titan. Unless you absolutely could not fit it. Both the Horizon and Diamondback are great presses and should be priced close to each other. There's a few pros and cons between the two.
I don't want to get drawn into the comments but when comparing apple to apple and say they should be priced together a couple of very important things are constantly overlooked. One- at M&R there are fifty three field technicians available for service to our customers. Two- we have an actual twenty four hour service available to the customer three hundred and sixty five days a year. Three we have three full time print trainers on staff and offer print training for free to our customers in our facility. Four we offer a money-back guarantee if you are not happy with the equipment.!Five- we offer full preventative maintenance training in our facility with an M&R tech at your disposal. The competitor you are comparing and I could be wrong has maybe two factory techs, no after hours phone support, no print trainers on staff, and no money-back guarantee So are you comparing apple to apple? I think not! That does not even take the equipment into comparison. Just a FYI
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Well there ya go! ;D
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Rich, I respect you a lot and you have done a great job, but apples to apples is all about the press and you know that, that's like comparing a steak from Wal-mart to a steak from Publix ain't much difference unless one is going to toss in all sides. I get your point though but press to press hmmm.
Darryl
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Rich, I respect you a lot and you have done a great job, but apples to apples is all about the press and you know that, that's like comparing a steak from Wal-mart to a steak from Publix ain't much difference unless one is going to toss in all sides. I get your point though but press to press hmmm.
Darryl
The presses speak for themselves. I was addressing the comment they should cost about the same.
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Not to be a troublemaker, and I know that no one returns one, but can someone tell me the approximate non-recoup-able cost on an albeit rare return of one of these blue apples or oranges? I assume it would be crate and freight two ways. Tech set-up fees (and possible dismantling)
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If you are thinking of switching gears - Might want to look at an Anatol Titan with a rotary screw compressor as well.
Michael Jirasek
Anatol
Apples to Apples I would say compare a Titan or Horizon to the Diamondback. The Volt seems to be a different animal.
I would look at a full size Horizon, not a mini or Titan. Unless you absolutely could not fit it. Both the Horizon and Diamondback are great presses and should be priced close to each other. There's a few pros and cons between the two.
I don't want to get drawn into the comments but when comparing apple to apple and say they should be priced together a couple of very important things are constantly overlooked. One- at M&R there are fifty three field technicians available for service to our customers. Two- we have an actual twenty four hour service available to the customer three hundred and sixty five days a year. Three we have three full time print trainers on staff and offer print training for free to our customers in our facility. Four we offer a money-back guarantee if you are not happy with the equipment.!Five- we offer full preventative maintenance training in our facility with an M&R tech at your disposal. The competitor you are comparing and I could be wrong has maybe two factory techs, no after hours phone support, no print trainers on staff, and no money-back guarantee So are you comparing apple to apple? I think not! That does not even take the equipment into comparison. Just a FYI
Re-reading my post and doing a little quick research, I slightly retract that. I'm just realizing that a Titan is a mini as well. So it should actually say "Apples to Apples I would say compare a full size Horizon (not a mini or titan) to the Diamondback."
I stand by my apples to apples though on the presses though. The Titan/mini Horizon does not have the same print size as the Diamondback. You need to go up to a full size Horizon if you are picking an Anatol to consider against the Diamondback.
I obviously could be wrong, but if you were to take the diamondback press and pick an Anatol press that is it's competitive model I'm pretty sure it would be a full size Horizon. When I last priced presses the Horizon and Diamondback were priced in the same ballpark.
Some of the pros and cons, which I wasn't looking to get into, would absolutely include after sale support, service, etc.
By saying they 'should' cost about the same wasn't meant to be an opinion to say that I feel the one is not worth more than the other or a better value. But my memory tells me they were in the same price range.
Just to make it clear, I was not/am not saying get a Horizon instead of a Diamondback. I was/am saying don't look at a Titan or mini Horizon to compare to a Diamondback.
Which ones a better buy for the OP and all that fun stuff, that's a different story all together.
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I don't know if this is a pattern or not, but it always seems that when someone says there opinion about M&R, they take it back later in the post. I was just wondering if there was a reason for this? Do you guys get a call or message from someone? What is it that changes peoples minds?
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Not to be a troublemaker, and I know that no one returns one, but can someone tell me the approximate non-recoup-able cost on an albeit rare return of one of these blue apples or oranges? I assume it would be crate and freight two ways. Tech set-up fees (and possible dismantling)
we state the installation and freight are the customers responsibility but if it was to occur and the customer had ligitimate issues we would cover everything including freight. If a customer bought for a job as an example and the order fell out then he or she would be asked to pay freight and out of pocket expense.
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Rich, I respect you a lot and you have done a great job, but apples to apples is all about the press and you know that, that's like comparing a steak from Wal-mart to a steak from Publix ain't much difference unless one is going to toss in all sides. I get your point though but press to press hmmm.
Darryl
I hope nobody is seriously ONLY considering the presses. Or maybe some are and that's why the end up with a press that doesn't work, isn't serviced easily, can't get good support or just flat out nobody cares. Not tossing names but it's shocking the stuff you hear. I would highly suggest a press isn't the only thing to consider when buying a auto.
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Good question Scott316, Mr. 244 will write them out his will and take all his toys back :P just bullshiizing with ya, I think the real reason is 244 is very well respected here and makes his points very clear and once people read what he post it clarify things. Mr. 244 is a business man so I know he can take it as well as dish it out, me I 'll stand my ground too if I think I,m right until I,m proved wrong.
darryl
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Rich, I respect you a lot and you have done a great job, but apples to apples is all about the press and you know that, that's like comparing a steak from Wal-mart to a steak from Publix ain't much difference unless one is going to toss in all sides. I get your point though but press to press hmmm.
Darryl
I hope nobody is seriously ONLY considering the presses. Or maybe some are and that's why the end up with a press that doesn't work, isn't serviced easily, can't get good support or just flat out nobody cares. Not tossing names but it's shocking the stuff you hear. I would highly suggest a press isn't the only thing to consider when buying a auto.
Brandt you and I are kind of in the same boat, I've had two autos an old azz multiprinter and my Anatol that I have only run, I guessing you have only owned two presses M&R's and run them. That being said we both can only talk about hearsay of what others have said (they could be fact or not) I can't say anything bad about an M&R press because I've never owned or run one, just like you can't say anything bad about an Anatol press because you've never owned one or run one (I know your going to have a smart ass remark to say about Anatol ;D) but hey I'm just stating my point, listen to advice but make up your own mind, but I would love to see a DB and full size Horizon side by side that would be the true test.
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Rich, I respect you a lot and you have done a great job, but apples to apples is all about the press and you know that, that's like comparing a steak from Wal-mart to a steak from Publix ain't much difference unless one is going to toss in all sides. I get your point though but press to press hmmm.
Darryl
I hope nobody is seriously ONLY considering the presses. Or maybe some are and that's why the end up with a press that doesn't work, isn't serviced easily, can't get good support or just flat out nobody cares. Not tossing names but it's shocking the stuff you hear. I would highly suggest a press isn't the only thing to consider when buying a auto.
Brandt you and I are kind of in the same boat, I've had two autos an old azz multiprinter and my Anatol that I have only run, I guessing you have only owned two presses M&R's and run them. That being said we both can only talk about hearsay of what others have said (they could be fact or not) I can't say anything bad about an M&R press because I've never owned or run one, just like you can't say anything bad about an Anatol press because you've never owned one or run one (I know your going to have a smart ass remark to say about Anatol ;D) but hey I'm just stating my point, listen to advice but make up your own mind, but I would love to see a DB and full size Horizon side by side that would be the true test.
I almost bought a Anatol, you really shouldn't assume. Fact is though I called several shops with anatols and decided from what those shops said I would be better off with a company that backs their product unlike any other in our industry no matter if you need it or not. You can't just compare autos because both companions are selling you more than a auto....they are selling you a long term relationship with them as a company. Support, serivce, someone their to answer a question and so on. I highly suggest one considers the full picture.
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I don't know if this is a pattern or not, but it always seems that when someone says there opinion about M&R, they take it back later in the post. I was just wondering if there was a reason for this? Do you guys get a call or message from someone? What is it that changes peoples minds?
Scott, I did not take back or retract my opinion. I did realize that the titan falls into the same category as a mini Horizon so I edited my original post (added a line to not add confusion to any of the responses). Other than that, I just clarified what I meant. I did not at any point push one press over the other.
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Brandt I know you looked at Anatol, but I guess I'm one of the lucky few that bought an Anatol press and got and still gets great service from them, no I've never had to have a tech come out, yes I had minor problems, true they walk me through it over the phone, shipped parts out overnight. I've talked with other Anatol press owners too and they love there press, but you talk about don't assume! assume my ass dude I read your hold saga during your press buying stage, it was all over digitsmith alone with Mr. we don't say his name around here, but you made your choice and I 'll say that your very happy with it, just like I would buy another Anatol.
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I don't know if this is a pattern or not, but it always seems that when someone says there opinion about M&R, they take it back later in the post. I was just wondering if there was a reason for this? Do you guys get a call or message from someone? What is it that changes peoples minds?
Scott, I did not take back or retract my opinion. I did realize that the titan falls into the same category as a mini Horizon so I edited my original post (added a line to not add confusion to any of the responses). Other than that, I just clarified what I meant.
That's totally understandable man was just asking. Just some info I looked up today.
The Titan is comparable to the Diomandback C
The horizon is comparable to the Diomandback S
The Titan and the horizon have the option to have servo index and ac heads.
Diomandback S only comes with servo no option of ac heads. According to M&R site
I am just going off what I found online. M&R might custom make these as needed.
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Brandit we all know M&R makes great equipment with great after purchase service, but I wouldn't say they are the only one in the equipment market with great service. Workhorse is well known for having great equipment and service as well.
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Brandit we all know M&R makes great equipment with great after purchase service, but I wouldn't say they are the only one in the equipment market with great service. Workhorse is well known for having great equipment and service as well.
That depends on exactly which Workhorse Tech.........
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This is what was given me when I was considering a Horizon vs. Diamondback, but this was 2011 so I dont know how much of it is valid.
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This is what was given me when I was considering a Horizon vs. Diamondback, but this was 2011 so I dont know how much of it is valid.
Just from quickly glancing at the list, #2, 3, 4, 6, and 8 are no longer correct. #10 is a matter of opinion.
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Well guys I appreciate how awesome this thread has been. I bought my diamondback 8/6 w/ a rotary screw compressor. The decision came down to the financing. Anatols financing company wouldnt go out to 72 months, wouldn't finance any extras, and wanted a picture of my garage in case they needed to repo my machine. I also live a half mile from the m&r dealers in my area so service would be right there. There were some other factors too but those were the biggest. The volt seems cool but with me being new to the auto game I didnt want to risk anything being bad about the new technology. Anatol has been great throughout this process. Steve in sales helped me out in every way possible. Aj at northstargraphix.com took alot of time to talk with me at iss and over the phone. Cant speak highly enough about Aj. Thanks to eveyone for the help.
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This is what was given me when I was considering a Horizon vs. Diamondback, but this was 2011 so I dont know how much of it is valid.
the part wher it is called a Diamondback is correct. Most of the rest is incorrect.
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Brandit we all know M&R makes great equipment with great after purchase service, but I wouldn't say they are the only one in the equipment market with great service. Workhorse is well known for having great equipment and service as well.
Couple things, I don't think I even used the name M&R. I also never suggested M&R was the only one in the market with service and support. I will be happy to suggest M&R is the best at service/support. You'd be hard pressed to argue differently. I think there are others that are "good", some that are "OK" and a few terrible. I just know if your press stops spinning, which do you want on your side? Crap shoot or the sure thing? I know right now if my press went down M&R will be all over it.
I spoke with several Anatol shops when I was shopping, no problem admitting most where happy with their presses, every one of them said the same thing about service and support though. Hard to reach, hard to get the right part, service had trouble knowing what was on their press as from one model to the next or even in the same model they would change manufactures on this part or that part and getting that all figured out was always hard and so on. That doesn't make Anatol bad, in fact I still nearly bought one even knowing all of that.
We also had Workhorse visit us, they had a more impressive set up as far as techs and support than Anatol, but IMO the presses weren't as good as M&R or Anatol at the time. This has been a few years ago keep in mind. Plus love it or hate this reason anything ARRRRRDUBYABBBB touched at one point I wanted nothing to do with. I found Tim at Workhorse enjoyable and spent time with him at a Workhorse install. Just felt they were not on the top of my list. This list goes on with other presses.
I am sure I wasn't the guy that did the absolute most research before buying but I did do what I consider a really fair amount. Most time I spent on any purchase in my life period. I was at it hard for months, window shopping for years prior.
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I should also say that monty and jeff with m&r and eric at gsg have done a great job of helping out as well. Looking forward to getting the press.
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Congratulations on your new machine.
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Wow that was a quick change of heart
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This is what was given me when I was considering a Horizon vs. Diamondback, but this was 2011 so I dont know how much of it is valid.
the part wher it is called a Diamondback is correct. Most of the rest is incorrect.
Figured as much
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Well guys I appreciate how awesome this thread has been. I bought my diamondback 8/6 w/ a rotary screw compressor. The decision came down to the financing. Anatols financing company wouldnt go out to 72 months, wouldn't finance any extras, and wanted a picture of my garage in case they needed to repo my machine. I also live a half mile from the m&r dealers in my area so service would be right there. There were some other factors too but those were the biggest. The volt seems cool but with me being new to the auto game I didnt want to risk anything being bad about the new technology. Anatol has been great throughout this process. Steve in sales helped me out in every way possible. Aj at northstargraphix.com took alot of time to talk with me at iss and over the phone. Cant speak highly enough about Aj. Thanks to eveyone for the help.
Thanks your for your confidence in M&R and its product. Its a decision you will be happy you made for many, many years to come. That, I personally guarantee !!!!
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That was quick! Congrats!
Side question that really has not much to do with the press, I'm just curious, was buying the compressor from M&R comparable to if you were to buy the same one from a local distributor?
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That was quick! Congrats!
Side question that really has not much to do with the press, I'm just curious, was buying the compressor from M&R comparable to if you were to buy the same one from a local distributor?
I can answer that for you. We do not suggest you buy your compressor from M&R. If you do we sell it at cost but that does not help you with your local service group. We are more than happy to guide you to the right manufacturer but it should be purchased locally. I don't know the details on this order but I would imagine the distributor is the one helping with the compressor.
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Cheaper, about 12 percent
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That was quick! Congrats!
Side question that really has not much to do with the press, I'm just curious, was buying the compressor from M&R comparable to if you were to buy the same one from a local distributor?
Yeah, I never euled m&r out and I was back and forth alot between the two.
Wow that was a quick change of heart