TSB
screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: T Shirt Farmer on June 18, 2014, 06:40:11 PM
-
With all the post regarding which press to buy or what press should I buy it is clear there is recurring theme in all of them... the availability of tech support should a catastrophic incident occur. It appears many have based there purchase mainly on the fact that company A has a fleet service guys available 24/7 circling your neighborhood at any given time and company B only has one or two fix it guys that can come to the rescue.
My question is the following.... How many here have had a press failure in the last 10 years that really put an order in jeopardy to the extent of missing a event or losing a customer? How many have not had there press back up in over 24 hours? I use 10 years as I believe the equipment is so much better designed than prior, most us have presses at least that new and the diagnostic components of most press's as fairly sophisticated.
Not looking for brand names coupled with the incident but just wanting to know the frequency of this actually happening and what components have failed to make lengthily down times.
Thanks,
Robert
-
main computer stopped working on Friday afternoon. Had the replacement parts in on Sat morning and finished printing few hours later. One incident in 6 years. Turned out to be defective LCD so we could not see what was on screen.
pierre
-
Guess my answer would be "kind of". We are fortunate to have a back up for damn near everything. Our auto has been down and we had to burn more screens and throw the jobs on the manuals. Our dryer has also been out for a bit and we had to reschedule and use our baby electric one. Epson printer went to crap a few times(no never, not a epson! ;) ) but we have a small old laser printer for emergencies, and now a back up 4880. Without the backups for some things we would of missed some deadlines without question.
-
7 years, 2 presses, never more than 30 minutes down time. And usually the defect is operator error!
A multitude of available techs is great, but so is reliable equipment that doesn't need them.
-
Pierre
Could you have hooked up a lab top via a USB port and still control the press?
-
Let's remember company A has a lot of techs because they have a lot of installs going on. People seems to forget that....
We've never been down on either of our presses so far. But we don't push volume some of you do.
-
Let's remember company A has a lot of techs because they have a lot of installs going on.
I must be missing the point of your statement, what does that have do with the need to fix a broken press or the reliability of any given manufacturers product ??
-
Pierre
Could you have hooked up a lab top via a USB port and still control the press?
I hooked up a monitor to the press and used it that way until we got the replacement.
pierre
-
Guess my answer would be "kind of". We are fortunate to have a back up for damn near everything. Our auto has been down and we had to burn more screens and throw the jobs on the manuals. Our dryer has also been out for a bit and we had to reschedule and use our baby electric one. Epson printer went to crap a few times(no never, not a epson! ;) ) but we have a small old laser printer for emergencies, and now a back up 4880. Without the backups for some things we would of missed some deadlines without question.
Alex,
Can you expand on what failed on the auto, did it completely render the machine in operable?
-
Pierre
Could you have hooked up a lab top via a USB port and still control the press?
I hooked up a monitor to the press and used it that way until we got the replacement.
pierre
So in that instance you were not at standstill for more than a few hours ? I am sure it was stressful but there was a work around... correct
-
Alex,
Can you expand on what failed on the auto, did it completely render the machine in operable?
Hahahahahahaha, which time :P
No it couldn't be used, but the press in question is a all air press, so if you break that seal the whole system is kind of inoperable. Ya, we could of ran to the store and tried to get a fitting to cap the hose a few times, but usually when that suker goes down, it is down.
-
For us personally 24 hrs waiting for new pallets, ones that came with press fell apart within the first 30k prints and once two hours for me to trouble shoot and hijack my kids video game charger to power our flash. All the other issues we were able to work around and keep running, thank god I know what I do to keep things running other wise we would be screwed. We are one of the fortunate ones, my press actually runs nice and in the grand scheme of things most likely the best of them.
I will leave it at this there are several brand X owners who have been down for a week or more.
With todays manufacturing quality, reliable parts and quality control I truly believe any machine from a reputable MFG should run trouble free for the first few years at the very least. With that being said there is only so much control a MFG has over its suppliers who may have a bad run of a part. If a MFG chooses to use inferior parts then it will bit them. I would say most MFG do there best to supply a reliable product. Also consider once the machine leaves the factory the MFG only has little or no control of how the machine is treated. If a owner chooses not to properly train users, maintain the machine or simply operates a crap hole with ink and lint everywhere premature failure is a sure bet. So when that owner complains the machine is a POS is it the machine or lack of proper operation and care.
-
Let's remember company A has a lot of techs because they have a lot of installs going on.
I must be missing the point of your statement, what does that have do with the need to fix a broken press or the reliability of any given manufacturers product ??
Someone else made the point techs were great but so is equipment that doesn't need fixed. It came off like the reason they had techs was for fixing equipment only... Which is false.
-
Been using company A for 17 years, probably 10 different autos and I can't think of a single time that we were not running at latest, the following day. Just my experience.
-
Can we add the total cost to get the press back up and running. Cost for parts and another total for tech costs.
My press just went down because a my error. Took a call to Pierre to get it back up and running. 30 mins to get it back up. Cost $5.
-
Let's remember company A has a lot of techs because they have a lot of installs going on.
I must be missing the point of your statement, what does that have do with the need to fix a broken press or the reliability of any given manufacturers product ??
Someone else made the point techs were great but so is equipment that doesn't need fixed. It came off like the reason they had techs was for fixing equipment only... Which is false.
Makes sense that a mfg that has a larger market share will have more techs, the large majority of those would be committed to installations.
-
as someone who has equipment down constantly, i can't express how much of a pain in the butt it is. Thankfully we've grown very fond of the Graphic Solutions Tech team, who are always very nice, and full of ideas on quick, and not so quick fixes to pesky parts.
I will say that one of our presses, typically has to buy parts from AWT, who are always to busy, or not paying attention to send the right parts. Also the fact that there are several different parts within the same S/N, doesn't help. Where as our M&R press, it's very easy to find the right parts, and they typically can ship from GSG in dallas, or from M&R in IL.
-
Pierre
Could you have hooked up a lab top via a USB port and still control the press?
I hooked up a monitor to the press and used it that way until we got the replacement.
pierre
So in that instance you were not at standstill for more than a few hours ? I am sure it was stressful but there was a work around... correct
sort of correct. The press was stopped and there was no going forward until fixed. There was no workaround until the parts from manufacturer were shipped in (which came in overnight and total time loss was less than a day).
pierre
-
We had a day and a half once with the old Centurian and we've been down 10 minutes on the RPM in 5 years. There is no doubt that some machine brands have more issues than others but for the most part, the machines being manufactured now are very reliable.
-
So in 5 years here's our list
Crank case and Servo 3K
2 batteries $180
2 frame airlocks $80
1 plc unit $2k
Avg. out to just over a grand a year to keep it rolling. Never been down over 24 hours.
Only 500K prints
-
So in 5 years here's our list
Crank case and Servo 3K
2 batteries $180
2 frame airlocks $80
1 plc unit $2k
Avg. out to just over a grand a year to keep it rolling. Never been down over 24 hours.
Only 500K prints
I hate to ask, but what is it?
-
We've had our press now going on 6 years never been down more than an hour or two and that was me being slow about the fix, like Alan there ain't to much on our press that I would need a tech to come in and work on. Like someone mention already some people are not hands on so they would need a tech to do just about all there repairs from simple to major. This is just me but if I'm buying a new press and the word service after the sell comes up a lot as a selling point then I'm asking why, do you expect this press to break down a lot, where I would like it more if they said we will be there if you ever need us. I don't think any of us expect our machines to run for years and years without problems, but major problems right out the box yes.
Darryl
-
So in 5 years here's our list
Crank case and Servo 3K
2 batteries $180
2 frame airlocks $80
1 plc unit $2k
Avg. out to just over a grand a year to keep it rolling. Never been down over 24 hours.
Only 500K prints
OUCH
-
Our press is 7 years old now. It only went down 1 day, the main proxy sensor for the pallet position somehow loosened and the top part of it got chopped off. Happened in the afternoon overnighted a few new ones, swapped it out in about 20 mins. So it wasn't bad. Have had a few other minor things happen. Chopper cylinders, a couple proxy sensors on print heads, connections going bad in infrared flashes, but all easy fix things. Dryer so far, the one bearing, but last night the other bearing started buzzing so I'm sure I should change that one this weekend, but so far stuff I should be able to handle myself.
-
Do I count the 5-7 days all three were under flood water? Six years ago and all three running like champs today! Of course work had to be done to them after the flood. I'm just saying there are some damn good manufacturers out there.
-
In five years, I've been down for two hours once, and that was due to a faulty power supply connection on my PLC. I called in a tech as I couldn't figure out what it was and when he unscrewed it the PLC it moved a bit and the machine came back to life. I think the bill was like $30 total for his time, mostly driving.
Other than that, I've replaced flip, stroke and index cylinders while rebuilding my old ass press over time but none of that ever stopped production. Recently I had some new MAC valves installed as well as I hadn't done that before, but it was scheduled for a time when we could handle the press not running for a few hours.
I've had more downtime with my dryer between cleaning spark plugs / flame rods, and the gas company not refilling my tanks on time. I was down for a few hours another time but that was due to bad filter maintenance on my part and once I took care of that was back up and running.
-
I'll put it like this:
Bimba cylinders are available everywhere and cheap. But they go out. Kind of a lot.
Kuhnke are expensive and difficult to source, but I've never had to replace one.
And they are rebuildable.
I have had to replace more than a few SMC valves, those things go out a lot too.
-
I'll put it like this:
Bimba cylinders are available everywhere and cheap. But they go out. Kind of a lot.
Kuhnke are expensive and difficult to source, but I've never had to replace one.
And they are rebuildable.
I have had to replace more than a few SMC valves, those things go out a lot too.
Not trying to start a TeeTee match but we're still on our 40 original Bimbas on the RPM but I'm not sure what constitutes a lot or if our case is an anomaly or if our air oiler is just the bomb, or both, or all, or none, just throwing out an experience I've had with them. Carry on.
-
Oh yeah, Kuhnke's don't need an oiler.
Beat that!
-
I guess I can't. Well played good sir.
-
Not trying to start a TeeTee match but we're still on our 40 original Bimbas on the RPM but I'm not sure what constitutes a lot or if our case is an anomaly or if our air oiler is just the bomb, or both, or all, or none, just throwing out an experience I've had with them. Carry on.
I'd imagine that running your press at 25psi may play a part in that as well. One shop I visited recently was running at 60 across the board. Its no wonder they'd need indestructible cylinders.
-
Dayum. Really? They sound like they're magic
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
-
We are a 1 press shop 8/10 electric index and heads with 1 flash. Installed later half of 08' now has close to 1mil. impressions
Here is the short list.
-Bulbs and sockets out in the flash 3 different times while under warranty. Down maybe 1/2 day each waiting on replacements overnighted then replacing the sockets.
-Same Problem as above, only this time the flash catches fire, and the warranty is out. So we pay shipping back to manufacturer for an upgrade/retrofit to fix the problem. UPS drops the flash on return shipping, but we paid for insurance. Asked for a new flash and was told they have non in stock and it will be 6-8 wks for replacement WTF. So we ordered the parts to fix our flash that we have already paid for once overnighted and paid for a second time (plus shipping). We are out some coin on this one with 5 days of down time and we lost the order we were working on 2,000+pcs and revenue for the week. UPS never paid a dime.
-Had servo go down due to power glitch or what ever twice, and wipes out all the default settings. This is when I was introduced to a mattress salesman who did help or get me some help walking through fixes over the phone. Lost 2 days of production limped along for 3 more trying to get the problem fixed. This one cost us a customer b/c order was shipped late.
I still get a weird "Servo Time Out Error" 2-3 times every other day (to fix, turn off machine re home indexer 2min. tops)
-Had proximity sensors go bad on the print heads. The manufacturer only had 4 in stock, and was told a week to get replacements. I sourced them myself and had them shipped. These are a huge PITA to replace on our machine, so I only replaced the ones on the heads that where down. Down 1 full day to replace sensors.
-Ruptured airlines in the print carriage. Waaaaay to many to list. I think all have been replaced.
-Had to replace pallets, the double sided adhesive tape let go. Got the new pallets in from the manufacturer and had to send right back for the same issue. They fixed the problem with screws and tape, I posted a pic in another thread recently. 1 day of down time. I was able to move to another job with youth pallets for 2 days. Got lucky.
-Had Brandon from Spot Color Supply come in March. Replaced the lift cylinder (The Manufacturer had in stock and was able to send next day) Also replaced the Remaining Prox. switches, airlines, ect... I scheduled this so there was no loss in production, and our machine has never ran so well. I posted this as well.
-Bad switch on my dryer. Had a Tech on with me for 2-3 hours trouble shooting the issue. Was able to source the replacement switch locally and we where back up and running.
Chris
-
Even though I always mention that at the workshops I still forget what kind of role that plays sometimes. 20-25 psi is almost nothing and we actually could print with less at times but it's not enough to lift and lower the chopper bars.
Chris, that's a tough deal you've had to work through. You my friend are a saint for not assaulting someone. That press is a year older than ours but fairly close with impressions count and I couldn't imagine going through 1/4th of that much less all of it.
-
-Had servo go down due to power glitch or what ever twice, and wipes out all the default settings. This is when I was introduced to a mattress salesman who did help or get me some help walking through fixes over the phone. Lost 2 days of production limped along for 3 more trying to get the problem fixed. This one cost us a customer b/c order was shipped late.
I still get a weird "Servo Time Out Error" 2-3 times every other day (to fix, turn off machine re home indexer 2min. tops)
Chris
Intersting considering our presses come from the same pedigree, I also have the servo time out error especially on start up.
-
Wait a min or two between turning the press on and hitting the accept button. Most likely the servo amp has not finished its power up and self check sequence so not sending any signal to the press. The press looks for it to start homing and can't find it so it stops and throws an error code.
-
Ambiguous thread is ambiguous
-
Wait a min or two between turning the press on and hitting the accept button. Most likely the servo amp has not finished its power up and self check sequence so not sending any signal to the press. The press looks for it to start homing and can't find it so it stops and throws an error code.
Yea i usually turn the press on walk away, when I come back I can home the
-
Wait a min or two between turning the press on and hitting the accept button. Most likely the servo amp has not finished its power up and self check sequence so not sending any signal to the press. The press looks for it to start homing and can't find it so it stops and throws an error code.
Yea i usually turn the press on walk away, when I come back I can home the indexer.
-
-Had servo go down due to power glitch or what ever twice, and wipes out all the default settings. This is when I was introduced to a mattress salesman who did help or get me some help walking through fixes over the phone. Lost 2 days of production limped along for 3 more trying to get the problem fixed. This one cost us a customer b/c order was shipped late.
I still get a weird "Servo Time Out Error" 2-3 times every other day (to fix, turn off machine re home indexer 2min. tops)
Chris
Intersting considering our presses come from the same pedigree, I also have the servo time out error especially on start up.
We get the error alarm while in production.
-
Have you replaced the main power contactor?
-
Man, sorry to hear that Chris, that is just plain out scary to not know when that thing will decide to go down. This is one reason why, as basic as our DB is, in a few months when we add the new press, we aren't getting rid of the DB. Even if it isn't used on a daily basis, knowing we have back up will give me some serious peace of mind. Hope you can get the issues ironed out and have smooth sailing from here on out!
-
We are a 1 press shop 8/10 electric index and heads with 1 flash. Installed later half of 08' now has close to 1mil. impressions
Here is the short list.
Chris
holy eff, hate to see the long list....that bucket of bolts would be on a pallet and sent back to the red team....
we have a refurb'd '94 6/8 gauntlet from Cosmex and a 2001 10/12 Gauntlet II from CGS - and knock on wood - only about an hour or two down time between the two, small things....
my dryer on the other hand ::)..that mother effer, that's another story..I was down for about three weeks....thank GOD for having a back up dryer.....although I gotta say once I found the correct wire for the spark plug, it's been a solid machine...oh, and the new belt....
-
That just blows me away, if I was the company and my customer had that many problems, I'd sent a truck with a new press and pick that old press up and have my guys go over that thing with a fine tooth comb before it went out again as used. I bought a set of new tires and the truck drove like I was on a wagon and this was some of the best brand tires, the company replaced my tires, but found out it was a mfg issue and I still buy from then today.
D
-
Have you replaced the main power contactor?
Brian, you lost me. PM with specifics when you have the time.
Thanks
Chris
-
Chris what kind of press do you have, if I can ask?
Shane