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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: alan802 on August 15, 2011, 06:46:52 PM
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As many of you know, our 4800 is down and likely out till we can get someone to refurb/rebuild the printhead and all the associated parts to it. We consulted with an epson tech today and there is a guy in Houston that said he could fix it in an hour, but we got to send the printer to him and it's going to be $800 minimum. A brand new 4880 is $1900 so we are weighing our options. We are currently using the r1800 for film output but it has developed a splatter problem that with many hours of treatment and reading tips from everyone all over the world, it still splatters and I'm personally tired of dealing with it. It prints decent film, but the splatter does affect higher mesh counts and halftones a bit.
We are looking at getting a backup/new film output printer, maybe the epson 1400 or something like that. The 4800 will likely be our output device once it gets going again, but in the meantime, I want some advice on what others are using for film output. I'd like to keep it around the price range and print size of the 1900 since this will be used more as a backup and only full time for a few weeks right now. What is everyone using and what are the pros and cons of your current printer? Let me hear everything you guys know!
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1400 makes a great back-up printer, especially for the price. You can task it out as a proofing printer for the rest of the time when it's not on film duty. The stock Claira inks work great on Fixxons/Microjet film if you want an ink you can run to the store and buy. Get one with the replacement plan so you can just run it into staples or wherever and grab another one if it's down. I really like the peace of mind of having ours so I won't freak if something's amiss with the 4800.
As far as replacing the 4800 with another film outputter, I've been doing some diligence on this topic and honestly can't see much else out there in the world besides wide-format epsons and imagesetters. As cool as imagesetters are they are really, really gad damn expensive with scary high potential replacement parts costs and media costs. The combination makes them unattractive to me financially. You would need to be doing some critical, fine line work, probably on something other than T shirts on a regular basis to really justify it. I'm sure other will disagree here but that's what I'm getting out of it. For us we need at least 24" wide output now so I guess it'll be a 7700/7890. I like our 4800 a lot though, it's very reliable and easy to work on.
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We are using the 1400 with excellent results. It is a good printer.
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Epson 1100 could be worth a look at $129.
Not as many bells and whistles as 1400, but it works for me.
It took a few tries to get the best result, but since I got the right settings and after I bought the CIS from eBay, I do not have any issues with it.
I do not print as many seps as you guys, but it did not give any problems as of yet.
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I also use a epson R1800 for my higher end designs..but day in day out i use a xante screenwriter 4 with great results and no registration problems.. i think its due to using good film..
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The 1400 is on the top of my list and I was wondering who here was running one. I was also interested to see if anyone was using an HP or something besides the popular epsons. I wish the epson 3000 was a little cheaper.
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the 3000 is a workhorse. I know what you mean about cheaper...ouch.
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1400 here with the all black dye carts, never has failed me.
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Started with a 1400 and it worked great. It was replaced by a 4000 over a year ago but I use it from time to time to keep the head clean. Great little printer and I have printed a tone of jobs through it.
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The 1400 is on the top of my list and I was wondering who here was running one. I was also interested to see if anyone was using an HP or something besides the popular epsons. I wish the epson 3000 was a little cheaper.
I've been using an HP Designjet 9800 the past couple years with great results in my opinion. HP software has an ink volume setting you can bump way up and I buy refurb cartridges for $6 each. You do have to get different film with the optical strip, I use Folex transparencies from Coastal Business supply, nothing special, not waterproof, but cheap. The hardest part with using HP printers is finding the right film. You keep your films right Alan? I toss mine each time as eventually the ink will spread with humidity and I only have a handful of customers that do reorders so I keep physical screens for them.
I also just picked up a Designjet T1100 off craigslist for $100, 24" printer that I bought a roll of transparency for. Not as dark as I'd like so I'm still testing it out and trying to find cheats to get darker prints. Wouldn't recommend it yet until I can figure out the right combination of settings to get a super dark opaque print.
I've been looking at the Officejet 7000 on Amazon as a new tester, only $124, but looks like it has ink tanks instead of cartridges with heads, so it's more like Epson in that regard. Could be worth a shot for the price or could be a paperweight, pretty cheap though! I beat the crap out of these HP's and they keep taking it day in and day out, but I don't print as many films as you do on a daily basis.
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I have 2 1400's and accurip. Run both side by side with fixxons film -can't beat it for the price -PLUS the refillable carts are cheap, 20.00/set on the bay. . .I love mine, but we don't due super critical high end prints like Pierre so I'm sure it has it's limits. . . just buy one, worst case you can sell it on here, they are cheap enough if it breaks, I don't invest time or money to fix it, you toss it and get another.
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I don't think I will let go of the 3000, I have a RIP that just kicks butt and the setup I have is sweet. I have a single bulk ink for the film printer and a full color bulk ink system for the work order printer. The second printer can be easily converted into doing films if needed, just switch the cables and black ink and I am set.
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I've been using an HP Designjet 9800 the past couple years with great results in my opinion. HP software has an ink volume setting you can bump way up and I buy refurb cartridges for $6 each. You do have to get different film with the optical strip, I use Folex transparencies from Coastal Business supply, nothing special, not waterproof, but cheap. The hardest part with using HP printers is finding the right film. You keep your films right Alan? I toss mine each time as eventually the ink will spread with humidity and I only have a handful of customers that do reorders so I keep physical screens for them.
What happens if you don't have a sensing strip?
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I've been using an HP Designjet 9800 the past couple years with great results in my opinion. HP software has an ink volume setting you can bump way up and I buy refurb cartridges for $6 each. You do have to get different film with the optical strip, I use Folex transparencies from Coastal Business supply, nothing special, not waterproof, but cheap. The hardest part with using HP printers is finding the right film. You keep your films right Alan? I toss mine each time as eventually the ink will spread with humidity and I only have a handful of customers that do reorders so I keep physical screens for them.
What happens if you don't have a sensing strip?
It throws a load error because it thinks there's no "paper" in it. You could use a piece of masking tape on there if you wanted to use non hp film but that's another added step.
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I have printed thousands upon thousands upon thousands of films with my 1400 and never a moment of downtime. Fixxons film, with refillable carts from filmdirectonline.com
The 1400 has been the best, least problematic printer I have ever owned.
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It throws a load error because it thinks there's no "paper" in it. You could use a piece of masking tape on there if you wanted to use non hp film but that's another added step.
Is that the center "resume" light flashing?
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Is that the center "resume" light flashing?
The center button is the one that flashes when it misses the paper/film intake. I'd have to double check to see if it also flashes and ejects if there's no sensor strip detected.
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I've been searching for the right price for the 1400 this morning and I think that is the direction we are going to go.
We also are looking at a cheap backup printer for sublimation and I think the workforce 1100 is going to be the winner in that category. We can pick one up for a little over $130 and the refillable cartridges for 20. We bought 4 liters of sublimation ink from China a few weeks ago and I can't wait to see if it works. Our 4800 has been down since the ink came in so we haven't checked to see if they work. We paid $300 for the sub inks and had we bought that much ink from Sawgrass, Johnson Plastics or another sub supplier in 220ml cartridge form, it would have cost us $5500! Assuming the China sub inks work, that is quite a large amount of savings, $5200 can buy a lot of ink and other supplies.
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Is that the center "resume" light flashing?
The center button is the one that flashes when it misses the paper/film intake. I'd have to double check to see if it also flashes and ejects if there's no sensor strip detected.
See, I have no problem feeding regular films with no strip in my 9800, however, I do have a recurring problem of the "missed paper intake resume light" after the last print (or after each single if that's the way I'm printing) It's usually not as simple as pushing that button because I believe that then prints an alignment page (which gets expensive with transfers or film)
I'd like to figure out what and where that sensor is.
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See, I have no problem feeding regular films with no strip in my 9800, however, I do have a recurring problem of the "missed paper intake resume light" after the last print (or after each single if that's the way I'm printing) It's usually not as simple as pushing that button because I believe that then prints an alignment page (which gets expensive with transfers or film)
I'd like to figure out what and where that sensor is.
The sensor is on the print carriage, if you look inside you'll see the blue light come on and check both edges of the film to make sure the correct width paper is loaded.
What film are you using and how opaque is it? That's really interesting that you can use film without a strip. My guess would be that it's just opaque enough to trigger the sensor? I'd be interested to try that out on mine.
I just removed the rollers with spikes on them from the outfeed because they started dragging vertical lines through my prints, which never happened before.
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Right now, I am settling for the "milky" WP from Fixxons, but I used to use a clear film from Film Source. It did come with a strip, but it seems to me that it also worked without. Too long ago, and this old mind...you know how it is.
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Epson 3000 here and worth the money. Although mine is rebuilt by ahhhhh David Parker who was on the first forum not SPOF but the one before that I cannot remember the name. But anyway he was on that one... I know this doesn't help but I do have a phone number, I think mine was around $650 with a year warrenty and I have had it for about 6 years with no problems, I run the roll film and cut pieces to the size ( length ) I need.
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Thank you to everyone who has weighed in on this thread. We've been thinking about this all morning and I believe we are ready to make a purchase. The 1400 is the winner for film output. I see that some of you are using the stock epson ink and not the aftermarket stuff we use on our 1800. So we don't have to use the max black ink for the 1400? What type of film are you 1400 users using and what type of ink? We'll be getting the 1400 tomorrow if we order it today, which we will still have to wait for any accessories or other black ink to come in if we need it. I wish I knew more about this side of the business so I didn't ask stupid questions regarding the ink usage of this printer, but I'm just a production guy.
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We run fixxons 13x19 sheets through the 1400 and I have some MIS (inksupply) brand ink that is a drop-in replacement for Claira (no flushing needed) in a refillable cart for the black but the Epson black made better films. The MIS Claira knock off is too watery it seems and makes these stupid halos around the image. For the little we use I would've just stuck with the stock ink. This is already a dye-based printer. And at least if it breaks you don't have to worry about them bitching out on the warranty or replacement plan b/c you used non-oem ink.
If you wanted to run refillable black I'd check out filmdirect's ink. We run it, single black, on the 4800 and it's great stuff.
Accurip folks also make a sheet feeder for the 1400 I think so you can load up a few sheets and walk away, not sure what it costs though, probably more than the printer.
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You flush the printer anyway, they have no idea if you are using Epson ink or not. You can always flush it, load it with epson ink and flush it again to make sure any residue is epson ink.
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Fixxon WP film, inksupply D2--PT-K is the part number, it's pretty cheap for a pint. and ebay for those refill carts.
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You flush the printer anyway, they have no idea if you are using Epson ink or not. You can always flush it, load it with epson ink and flush it again to make sure any residue is epson ink.
Ahh, that's kinda what I was hoping. Just go buy an epson black cart if that happens.
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I got my black carts and ink from film direct as well. If you choose to run the Epson carts you will suck down that cartridge in less than ten sheets I would imagine. Refillable is the only way to go.
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im using the 9800 and i get my film from Victory Factory and its very cheap and it works great.
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The new 4900 has a $1000 rebate this month.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/738107-REG/Epson_SP4900HDR_Stylus_Pro_4900_Inkjet.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/738107-REG/Epson_SP4900HDR_Stylus_Pro_4900_Inkjet.html)
I'm considering it. I have a 9600 and a 3000. The 9600 is killer but big. I am thinking of a new 4900 with the 9600 as backup or for big stuff. I know that Accurip supports the newer Epsons.
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Epson 1400 with Powerip was the best investment I ever made.
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Got the printers in today, we went with the 1400 and the 1100. We just printed a test film on the 1400 and compared it under a loupe to film we've printed with the 4800. This isn't just hyperbole, the 1400 film is better. Our 5% halftones are actually round and fairly crisp where the 4800 looked like little oblong meatballs. I don't have a tool to measure density, but holding it up to the light, they are both equal in density with the human eye. I am really impressed with this cheap ass printer. $220 after rebate from Staples, delivered for free the next day. I will update after we've printed more film through it but right now I am a believer in the 1400. Thanks everyone for the great advice.
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My r1800 with Accurip has been a dream so far.
The best part is this film I've been using. Doing some searching to match my dye ink to film and found 13 x 100 roll for $43 bucks.. had a bunch of test printing and films to make and didn't want to do it on expensive film, plus the 1800 handles roll media. It's not waterproof, is very clear and crisp. No fog or haze and prints amazing! No finger stick and after 1/2 roll, I bought a 2nd. Accurip on 2 drop and 1440x1440 setting makes perfect 1/2 tones.
For the price you can't beat it, check it out!
http://www.stuff4print.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43_28 (http://www.stuff4print.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43_28)
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Damn, that's a great deal on non-waterproof film. I just ordered Silkjet SC-4 (my old standby before Fixxons, better
durability with dye-based inks) from these guys:
http://bestscreenprintingsupply.com (http://bestscreenprintingsupply.com)
That happen to be a 2 day ship and carry a lot of my favorite products.
I will be checking out the Stuff4Printers film though.
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I'm using a 17" roll of Fixxons with my free 9600. I have Accurip XL installed on my old Athlon 64 machine which I formatted clean and installed Win XP to run it. It's literally the only extra software installed on there aside from the Windows updates and the printer drivers.
I tried to find workable 9600 drivers for Win 7 64 bit, impossible. Epson has really dropped the ball with legacy driver support. Spotty at best, some models are straight up unsupported past Win XP.
I picked up the copy of Accurip used, so all in all I have about $450 invested in this. I can print up to 44" wide films. :o
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I agree, they don't offer the same drivers for the 3000.
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Gutenprint is amazingly functional. I had it cranking out films on our 3000 right from a mac that were as dark as using the Win Epson drivers. It just takes a ton of fine-tuning but it can be done.
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Valley Litho Supply is very cheap for film also Do a google search for them i think its www.valleylitho.com (http://www.valleylitho.com)
Paul
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Valley Litho Supply is very cheap for film also Do a google search for them i think its [url=http://www.valleylitho.com]www.valleylitho.com[/url] ([url]http://www.valleylitho.com[/url])
Paul
Pretty much same price with non-waterproof as stuff4print, nice find.
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Got the printers in today, we went with the 1400 and the 1100. We just printed a test film on the 1400 and compared it under a loupe to film we've printed with the 4800. This isn't just hyperbole, the 1400 film is better. Our 5% halftones are actually round and fairly crisp where the 4800 looked like little oblong meatballs. I don't have a tool to measure density, but holding it up to the light, they are both equal in density with the human eye. I am really impressed with this cheap ass printer. $220 after rebate from Staples, delivered for free the next day. I will update after we've printed more film through it but right now I am a believer in the 1400. Thanks everyone for the great advice.
how's the 1400 holding up? After some use is the dot quality as good as it was when started?
I just found a good deal on the 4800 and am trying to talk myself out of it, but at $350 it is hard to say no.
How much faster is the 4800? Is there another reason why I should not pass on it?
pierre
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Pierre thats a good deql on that 4800. We have one here and I also had one on ST Thomas and it performed well. That said after about 3.5 ys of hard use we brought in an Epson tech and had it serviced/refurbished for around $900.
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Pierre thats a good deql on that 4800. We have one here and I also had one on ST Thomas and it performed well. That said after about 3.5 ys of hard use we brought in an Epson tech and had it serviced/refurbished for around $900.
I have seen new 4880's for just over $1k. At the $350 though, it is tempting. It will introduce some new issues though. Currently I am spending next to nothing on the ink so the cost will go up. I might be able to save a little on the film by nesting on the rolls, but it is so easy to use up the whole sheet that 'not sure that it will really be beneficial.
So it should be faster than the 3000, should produce a better dot, film is cheaper (as I seem to have some issues with cheaper films and am assured by the manufacturer that it will go away if I use their ink/film combo. It is also supposed to boost my Dmax to 3.5 from 3.05 I am getting now), ink is more expensive, rolls are easier to load then sheets and possibly cheaper. FilmMaker should give me better control over dots as long as it can actually print better than the 1400 (which is now in question). If the print quality is no better, I think it might not really that beneficial to go with 4800 over a 3000.
Any thoughts? I think at that price I should just get it and give it a try . . .
pierre
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The 4800 at 350 is great, I'd not pass up that deal if I were you.
The 1400 is holding up great. Quality is still the same, the only complaint I would have is speed. The density is the best we've ever had over the five years we've been doing this. I haven't really talked to my artist about why, but the 1400 was outputting film that was more dense than the 4800, I'm sure all the RIP settings and ink made the difference. The only bad thing about the 1400 versus the 4800 for us is speed. The 4800 is fast, very fast compared and there are times when we miss that speed, but there hasn't been any bottleneck issues because of the 1400's speed.
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Pierre thats a good deql on that 4800. We have one here and I also had one on ST Thomas and it performed well. That said after about 3.5 ys of hard use we brought in an Epson tech and had it serviced/refurbished for around $900.
I have seen new 4880's for just over $1k. At the $350 though, it is tempting. It will introduce some new issues though. Currently I am spending next to nothing on the ink so the cost will go up. I might be able to save a little on the film by nesting on the rolls, but it is so easy to use up the whole sheet that 'not sure that it will really be beneficial.
So it should be faster than the 3000, should produce a better dot, film is cheaper (as I seem to have some issues with cheaper films and am assured by the manufacturer that it will go away if I use their ink/film combo. It is also supposed to boost my Dmax to 3.5 from 3.05 I am getting now), ink is more expensive, rolls are easier to load then sheets and possibly cheaper. FilmMaker should give me better control over dots as long as it can actually print better than the 1400 (which is now in question). If the print quality is no better, I think it might not really that beneficial to go with 4800 over a 3000.
Any thoughts? I think at that price I should just get it and give it a try . . .
pierre
pierre if your using a epson 3000 now and thinking about getting a 4800 or 4880 do it. Even if it was $1000. We had a 3000 and it was fine. I wanted to print rolls though.. Found a 4800 on craigslist for like $500. It was one of the best upgrades we did last year. So super happy about it.
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How are you using the 3000 on windows 7? I dont see any drivers for it.
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Most apps for xp run on 7, 7 was built to run most xp based apps. I use the xp driver installed to 7 and then fast rip, sczi-usb adapter problem free with the epson 3,000
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How is the WF1100 doing with that sublimation work?
I've thought about getting into some sublimation stuff... I'd just need printers and ink really. I already have a WF1100 sitting brand new in box because I love mine so much that I bought a second as a backup. All I'd need is another CISS from Ross and http://www.inkjetcarts.us (http://www.inkjetcarts.us) and I'd be in business!
Then again, I'd have to buy another backup with another deal came along because I'd now have two points of failure to cover with it. :) I picked the last one up for 99.99 bucks on amazon!