TSB
screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Gilligan on January 08, 2014, 07:47:06 PM
-
I know I should have all the answers to this already and trust me, I should!
Looking at a job of 1,100 white shirts 1 color front and back (it's ok, to be jealous). I'm estimating 4 days of production on the manual (an extra day in there to be safe and to work at a sane pace).
Does this seem reasonable? Never done a job this large... I know staging and storing will be some what of an issue as we only have 1600 sqft total here and only 800 of it for embroidery and screen printing production. I do have outside storage that I will be able to use so that should be able to work.
Oh, and did I mention they will all be XL's? ;D
Maybe this job will stress the importance of logged data for EVERY task we do in the shop so they can understand how we need to it to estimate jobs like this. It's been too easy going on our production schedule in the past. Hopefully 2014 will change that for us!!
-
Doable. That being said is it full front and full back print? If so that will get tiring pretty quickly. I would plan the full 5 days. A print every 30 secs is going to be nearly 20 hours of printing. If one side is small that will help a ton as you could increase that print speed a lot and not be as tired printing. But definitely try to get/plan more time than you expect
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
-
contract it to someone with an auto, I could print that in half a day easy.
-
Doable. That being said is it full front and full back print? If so that will get tiring pretty quickly. I would plan the full 5 days. A print every 30 secs is going to be nearly 20 hours of printing. If one side is small that will help a ton as you could increase that print speed a lot and not be as tired printing. But definitely try to get/plan more time than you expect
Full width, so might as well be full front as moving the hand from screen to squeegee is majority of that time consumed vs LC (that would make this really kicka$$!)
contract it to someone with an auto, I could print that in half a day easy.
Totally agree Dirk... BUT, I am doing this as half cash, half trade with a radio station. Basically I'll be breaking even (probably lose a little on labor, but I'd honestly be paying that anyway)... so if I send it out, my guy will be sitting on his hands and I'll be coming out of pocket which kind of ruins the trade. I'm sure shipping has to be a $$ drain on something this size.
-
I would think with 1 color, 2 a min would not be rushing too badly making 120/hr., unless your curing with flash (lol)
That said. 2200/120= 18 hours.
-
I would think with 1 color, 2 a min would not be rushing too badly making 120/hr., unless your curing with flash (lol)
That said. 2200/120= 18 hours.
That's basically what I'm estimating from previous printing.
The data that I've been asking for but hasn't been logged yet is; catching (box), sorting, stacking, folding and boxing. (If anyone wants to share that data, it might help but I know it won't be accurate.)
-
With two people it used to take us 2 full days to print that many shirts on a m&r chameleon. Used to do it a few times a month, not a big deal. Kept me from getting fat.
-
If you have the staff available you could have someone load, someone print and another catch. You could easily run that in two days without pushing too hard.
-
Make a squeegee rest toward the bottom of the front image so you won't have to reach all the way to the end of the screen for it
-
If you have the staff available you could have someone load, someone print and another catch. You could easily run that in two days without pushing too hard.
Yup. A manual press with 3 operators can run over 350 pcs/hr, depending on ink and image size, with surprising consistency if you have a decent printer. Have your printer hire a couple buddies (well three, you'll need someone at back of the dryer) for a day and knock it out. Or just let your staff get some hours and do it over a few days. 4 days for a solo press op is very realistic, you'll probably get it done a little quicker.
Do this however: round your squeegee edges and, presuming plastisol, tape the bottom of the screen at the blade edges, the screen will want to break down there. Got enough ink?
-
Hiring extra will cost you, so if you want to save some coin, you will have to get YOUR a$$ in gear also! Seriously running a manual with even 2 people speeds it up quite a bit! Plus your printer won't want to kill you at the end of the week. He seems like a nice guy, mr. you are never there when people call:P Can your dryer handle extra qty. per hr?
Reminds me of how they print in some factories in China- 24 color, 24 station semi-auto with like 10 guys printing on it!
-
If you have a loader/unloader and a catcher this should be 2 longish days, 3 normal days without breaking much of a sweat. I printed 700 one color front one color back with just 2 people, and the art was 20 inches long and 100 of the 700 were different art on poly tanks which took longer per piece and we finished in under two days including art and screen prep.
-
Boy if you can do a push stroke it will help too.
Used to also grab squeegee on sides with thumbs above blade with a push too.
Actually taped t-shirt material on sides of squeegee to help soften wood edges
on this "side grab/thumb push" with very long runs. Lots of pulling then lots of pushing.
Radio stations are a good way to barter, but I don't think any one of them in the history
of radio waves has actually paid normal price for apparel. I cut those conversations short.
Make sure you have your logo on them!!!!
-
if you are doing this for a radio station, make sure to ask new customers if they heard the ad or not. personally we tried it once or twice and never had anything. even with a 10% discount for someone who mentioned they heard it on the radio. maybe it will work for you but actually sucked for us. just my 2cents b
but i agree with 2 days with 3 people working it.
-
we did this same thing a few years ago, One radio group, 600 one color white shirts 3 radio stations, country, rock, easy listening, pretty neat ad (I thought anyway) the radio spot ran for 4 weeks at least 4 times a day.
We got ZIP....I mean ZIP not one related phone call.
As far as the time goes you would be surprised how little time it takes to load , print, unload and re-load a shirt but there are so many other variables that will eat into your progress.
Estimating an outrageously long full minute per shirt to pick , load, index, print next, index, pull, drop, re-load would take you 18 hours non stop so two working days. Fat that up by a factor of 2 we would expect to pi$$ away 4 full days for one man on this job from start to boxed and out the door ready.
mooseman
-
I'll second the guys echoing that this likely won't give you a return on investment. We offered maybe 5 or 7 jobs with some form of discount for advertising and have never gotten a single job from one. This was quite a variety of advertizing media as well, not all radio or print etc. We no longer offer trade like this. Services or goods we trade for all the time if we need them, advertizing just sucks away cash.
-
Back in our manual days we did 1500 1 color fronts in just over a day. Probably 10hrs. Navy ink on sport grey. I think 2 long days for a job like that assuming both sides. We also did this in our basement which had no room for boxes so we could only bring maybe 4-6 boxes in at a time so that took extra time. We did it with just me and Shelly. She loaded and I printed and unloaded.
-
It's doable, but by the time you bring on extra folks, run the dryer for that long, it might be cheaper to send them out. I get ads all the time for printed shirts for close to what I buy them for blank...just sayin'
-
I think doing 1 shirt every 25 seconds is very doable with one guy on the press and one catching. 150 shirts/hr without rushing. I've done a small left chest, navy ink on ash gray, and I was at 250/hr on a chameleon. I'd stage the job in sections and just stay one step ahead of your printer and lay out a few hundred shirts at a time. If you want to break up the boring task of printing you can let your guy take a break from printing and lay shirts out while you or someone else jumps on the manual for 30 minutes or so. You can get off your butt and lay the shirts out and help with staging them and you'll still have plenty of time to clean your guns and play on the interwebz :)
-
Got enough ink?
Good point, need to get that once art is finalized... Another variable we don't have dialed in here. :(
Hiring extra will cost you, so if you want to save some coin, you will have to get YOUR a$$ in gear also! Seriously running a manual with even 2 people speeds it up quite a bit! Plus your printer won't want to kill you at the end of the week. He seems like a nice guy, mr. you are never there when people call:P Can your dryer handle extra qty. per hr?
Reminds me of how they print in some factories in China- 24 color, 24 station semi-auto with like 10 guys printing on it!
Lol, hvac issues at wife's business has had me out of pocket last couple days.
Boy if you can do a push stroke it will help too.
Used to also grab squeegee on sides with thumbs above blade with a push too.
Actually taped t-shirt material on sides of squeegee to help soften wood edges
on this "side grab/thumb push" with very long runs. Lots of pulling then lots of pushing.
Radio stations are a good way to barter, but I don't think any one of them in the history
of radio waves has actually paid normal price for apparel. I cut those conversations short.
Make sure you have your logo on them!!!!
Pushing here. Yeah, we might not see much, if any return, but it will be good for branding hopefully. My wife has been working with this girl (this is how we got the gig) and she has been happy with the results and I know ppl hear her ads. I was doing some covert recon on her competition with the sewing supply shop that is next door to them and she said "it's ok, but they don't do any advertising like Play and Learn (our business). I hear them doing stuff on the radio and such." So that wasn't even anyone who's ears perked up because they already knew us. But it's a totally different business as well.
Logo is going on the back with only one other sponsor.
I think doing 1 shirt every 25 seconds is very doable with one guy on the press and one catching. 150 shirts/hr without rushing. I've done a small left chest, navy ink on ash gray, and I was at 250/hr on a chameleon. I'd stage the job in sections and just stay one step ahead of your printer and lay out a few hundred shirts at a time. If you want to break up the boring task of printing you can let your guy take a break from printing and lay shirts out while you or someone else jumps on the manual for 30 minutes or so. You can get off your butt and lay the shirts out and help with staging them and you'll still have plenty of time to clean your guns and play on the interwebz :)
Alright alright... You guys know me too well, did someone leak my security cam log in info here? ;)
Isn't the point of a "mastermind" to be masterminding? I like to think I'm preparing them to be able to run everything without me there..l so I act like I'm barely there to start with. ;D
-
If you have the staff available you could have someone load, someone print and another catch. You could easily run that in two days without pushing too hard.
Yup. A manual press with 3 operators can run over 350 pcs/hr, depending on ink and image size, with surprising consistency if you have a decent printer. Have your printer hire a couple buddies (well three, you'll need someone at back of the dryer) for a day and knock it out. Or just let your staff get some hours and do it over a few days. 4 days for a solo press op is very realistic, you'll probably get it done a little quicker.
Do this however: round your squeegee edges and, presuming plastisol, tape the bottom of the screen at the blade edges, the screen will want to break down there. Got enough ink?
Like Zoo, 3 operators can go pretty fast on a manual. The 350 per hour is pretty much what we would expect here too. My best printer does 200 an hour in her sleep, alone on press, with a catcher. On our auto, 400 per hour for a conservative estimate, capable of much more, less than 1 day here; better yet in ideal conditions, off one auto, and onto the next for the other side. But I digress... the question was about manual. I personally touch a squeegee a few times a year anymore, and I can do a gross per hour in one color. Get crackin'
Steve
one weekend about 20 years ago, we did 9000 2c full fronts on 2 manual presses starting on Friday afternoon, and finishing on Sunday around 5:00. 2 catchers
-
One loading and swinging platens, the other printing and unloading. It's more than twice as fast as one person doing it all. Both take a break every 20 minutes or so to empty the box at the end of the oven and stack shirts.
Crank the tunes and have at 'er!
-
One loading and swinging platens, the other printing and unloading. It's more than twice as fast as one person doing it all. Both take a break every 20 minutes or so to empty the box at the end of the oven and stack shirts.
Crank the tunes and have at 'er!
That's how we did it!
-
Alright alright... You guys know me too well, did someone leak my security cam log in info here? ;)
Well you didn't exactly make it complicated for us, what was the login info again? Oh YA!-
Username: Oprah
Password: Britney Spears
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P
-
Britney was so last year, he changed it to : "Miley"
-
Well... of course nothing goes smoothly as a 1:1 white shirt right?
Now it just changed to 4 color process on the back. I hope I didn't screw myself by sticking with my 4 color price. BTW, I'm at 4.90 each for this. 1 color front (text) 4 color process 3 logos (one of which is mine) on the back.
I'm thinking at this point this job is out of my league to do in house. We've never done 4CP only 4 color Semi and only one of those.
Guess I'll be looking to contract this out. :(
-
Actually that was a misquote... but I am going to play dumb. It should have been $4.60 (30 cents per additional color on the back... she did the math as 4 colors = 1.20 + the original price of the 1:1 not taking away the original color. ;) )
-
We always do 1 color for the sponsors on the back. I'd jack the 4cp price high enough to make them choose 1col. instead of 4cp. You can always do grey scale or trace the crappy logo's you'll invariably get.
btw, a little trick for you when putting you logo on the back of an event shirt with a bunch of others, tell them that you'll put it at the very bottom and fairly small, then put it there all alone, that stands out much better than in with all the other logos even if it was bigger, and sponsors that pay more generally want their logo at the top and bigger.
(http://gallery.flybc.ca/albums/album826/2014_polar_bear_dip.jpg)
-
It's only 3 sponsors, the radio station, local coke bottling company and us.
I said we would do our smaller at the bottom. ;)
I think the problem is the bottling company is wanting the colors. Might be mandated.
Great tip though!
-
It's only 3 sponsors, the radio station, local coke bottling company and us.
I said we would do our smaller at the bottom. ;)
I think the problem is the bottling company is wanting the colors. Might be mandated.
Great tip though!
Better also find out how close to "corporate Coke red" and other colors they expect.
-
It's only 3 sponsors, the radio station, local coke bottling company and us.
I said we would do our smaller at the bottom. ;)
I think the problem is the bottling company is wanting the colors. Might be mandated.
Great tip though!
Then the bottling company can pay for the colors. Set the rules. Your the one getting the short end of the stick in this deal anyways.
-
It's only 3 sponsors, the radio station, local coke bottling company and us.
I said we would do our smaller at the bottom. ;)
I think the problem is the bottling company is wanting the colors. Might be mandated.
Great tip though!
Better also find out how close to "corporate Coke red" and other colors they expect.
I explained that and she knows about pms.
It's only 3 sponsors, the radio station, local coke bottling company and us.
I said we would do our smaller at the bottom. ;)
I think the problem is the bottling company is wanting the colors. Might be mandated.
Great tip though!
Then the bottling company can pay for the colors. Set the rules. Your the one getting the short end of the stick in this deal anyways.
Only thing I may have done wrong is not up charging for the 4cp. They are actually paying .30 cents OVER my pricing I would have given them because she sucks at math.
-
It's only 3 sponsors, the radio station, local coke bottling company and us.
I said we would do our smaller at the bottom. ;)
I think the problem is the bottling company is wanting the colors. Might be mandated.
Great tip though!
What you did wrong was to offer 4 CP............ ;)
Better also find out how close to "corporate Coke red" and other colors they expect.
I explained that and she knows about pms.
It's only 3 sponsors, the radio station, local coke bottling company and us.
I said we would do our smaller at the bottom. ;)
I think the problem is the bottling company is wanting the colors. Might be mandated.
Great tip though!
Then the bottling company can pay for the colors. Set the rules. Your the one getting the short end of the stick in this deal anyways.
Only thing I may have done wrong is not up charging for the 4cp. They are actually paying .30 cents OVER my pricing I would have given them because she sucks at math.
-
Actually they assumed, and I said yes... same difference. lol
-
Last May I did a 2000 piece order on lime green shirts. 3 color front, 1 color sleeve and 1 color back. I finished it in 5 days on a manual. It was brutal. Staging was tough for us also. Not much space to layout 2000 pieces.
I would probably try to bang out that order in about 2 days.
-
I would not even ATTEMPT to produce a corporate pms (reference) color in process...(Well, I have, but...!)dunno what logo the bottler is wanting, or how many colors you can print, but if you think there is even a REMOTE chance of the sponsor being a stickler for the pantone number(s), you are gonna be tearing your hair out trying to get a CLOSE match (hopefully, without screwing up the color balance of something else in the print!)
I WOULD want a "touch plate" (dedicated spot screen ) for the problem color(s)
+ 1 on the general innefficacy of radio ads, but I certainly wish you good luck! Get printing! LOL!
-
It's only 3 sponsors, the radio station, local coke bottling company and us.
I said we would do our smaller at the bottom. ;)
I think the problem is the bottling company is wanting the colors. Might be mandated.
Great tip though!
Better also find out how close to "corporate Coke red" and other colors they expect.
When we do 4CP for sponsors, we tell them they get what they get; nobody is paying enough money for that. They'll look right to the normal observer. Hell, even Coca-Cola doesn't have matching red on everything...
Steve
-
4CP on manual=no two are alike BTW
-
Man I was really rooting for you on this one, but it will be challenging to say the least to get extremely consistent 4CP on a manual, especially if you are trying to hustle. It can be done, just not easily, and a large job may not be the best testing ground buddy....
-
Gilly, are you sure you have to run the back 4cp? can you post the art? what about your home slice with the brown auto?
-
It's Pepsi, DR. P and 7 up.
I think we are going to make a road trip to New Orleans and put that servo lift through it's paces. ;)
We will end up coming out of pocket by about $200 bucks in the end (for the $2,700 in advertising).
It has been explained that if they need PMS we could do 4cp AND PMS for those colors. It's really the bottling company, so I doubt they will be total pricks about it.
I wouldn't ever try 4CP on a manual... especially not with 1000 people all wearing the shirt at one event right next to each other! LOL
-
4CP on manual=no two are alike BTW
Yep, the best printer would not be able to make them look alike; close, but no cigar.
Steve
Also, I printed a gazillion for Coca Cola in 1980. They are pricks, we eventually "fired" them. After a 150K run, they wanted us to print 12-24 1 colors on some backs for $0.125 (yes, twelve and a half cents). If you do have to print their red, mix it up, print a sample and have them sign off on it...
-
I got my first job by printing a 4cp better than their current employee. I went in to see if they were looking to hire, never having printed by hand on cloth, only flat-stock & such on clam-shell auto's, The Owner walked me over to the set-up press and had me print 6 shirts 4cp. The next day I was full time and the other guy got his walking papers.
With care you can get them pretty good, it's not undo-able, but yes there will be some variation.
-
4CP on manual=no two are alike BTW
Unfortunately, 4CP on many AUTOS are the same way.
:P
BTW - my estimation for 1CP on a manual is always 80-90 dz per day, comfortably anyway.