TSB
screen printing => Separations => Topic started by: Prosperi-Tees on December 06, 2013, 01:43:17 AM
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Hey yall, I am trying to put together a quote for a new customer whose current printer let him down and could not deliver. How many colors do you think this can print with going on safety orange tees? I am thinking 4, green, yellow, black and gray with no underbase, or what would you do?
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Could be my monitor but I don't see yellow as much as I see a lime/bright green.
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we usually ask the customer to specify what they want; best reproduction, cheapest price or best value. That will dictate the number of colors you use.
pierre
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Yep, I'm with Kevin--I'd do a yellow shade green and a blue shade green, like wilflex's spring and kelly greens.
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Pierre, hit the nail on the head ask your custy what they are looking for then go from there on price, and if they don't know what they want then start at your high and go low 4 color price 3 color price etc.
Darryl
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I'd quote for 5 screens.
Base
Green
lime
Black
hilite white.
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I wouldn't go less than 5 colors either...
Steve
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we usually ask the customer to specify what they want; best reproduction, cheapest price or best value. That will dictate the number of colors you use.
pierre
This is a very simple way to clarify a question I end up asking all the time. I'm going to add this wording to my standard quote request responses. Thanks!
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Might be able to be done in 3.
halftone black for the grey.
Why would some of you put down an underbase? Isn't going down on white?
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he said it is going down on orange.
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Base, Light green, dark green, grey,white,black. Trying to make grey out the black never looks that good in my opinion. You got an 8 color now Gerry. Blow them after the last guy dropped the ball and you got a customer for life.
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Use grey as the underbase.....
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he said it is going down on orange.
My bad. I was reading and replying on my phone. Ooops.
White
Yellow
Green
Black
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I quoted this at a 5 color back and 1 color left chest and got beat on price. Seems like I always get beat out on the multi color stuff. I think ill start another thread in pricing.
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You always have to wonder what they get for the better price. But you will probably never know if they were happy with the results or not. Trying to beat the next guy's price could lead to a lesser quality on your part and hurt you overall. It's okay to check out your pricing as competitive in a pricing thread, but I would never try to be the "cheapest" guy.
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I never want to be the cheapest but I am not getting any of the multi colors (above 3) jobs that I quote, just seems I may be over priced otherwise I would think we would get one or two of these multi colors every once in awhile.
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I never want to be the cheapest but I am not getting any of the multi colors (above 3) jobs that I quote, just seems I may be over priced otherwise I would think we would get one or two of these multi colors every once in awhile.
I'd say you are correct, you don't want to be getting every job, but you want more than almost none.
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In reality based on understanding color and digital color math...
It is
Yellow
Green
Cyan
Black
You could almost get way with..
yellow
cyan
black
Those colors will produce the digitally correct color separations.
Why are you looking at this and guessing back and forth there is no need to guess. You have eye droppers in your applications that will tell you all you need to know.
Look at this thread do you see just how all this simulated process nothing to do with understanding digital color has you all guessing based on zero understanding of color.
Are we not printers? is it not our job to reproduce color accurately? Are we not dealing with digital color? Does math lie? Does math guess?
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So that's how you'd print it on a Safety Orange T-shirt eh? You see we're screenprinters here, so many of us look at a job like that and give an answer based on the screens we'd set-up to print the job, I know, crazy right. ::)
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using math to figure out the equation for yellow, cyan, and black plus the hint of bleed migration from a poly shirt.
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In reality based on understanding color and digital color math...
It is
Yellow
Green
Cyan
Black
You could almost get way with..
yellow
cyan
black
Those colors will produce the digitally correct color separations.
Why are you looking at this and guessing back and forth there is no need to guess. You have eye droppers in your applications that will tell you all you need to know.
Look at this thread do you see just how all this simulated process nothing to do with understanding digital color has you all guessing based on zero understanding of color.
Are we not printers? is it not our job to reproduce color accurately? Are we not dealing with digital color? Does math lie? Does math guess?
Did you even read the original post...
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So that's how you'd print it on a Safety Orange T-shirt eh? You see we're screenprinters here, so many of us look at a job like that and give an answer based on the screens we'd set-up to print the job, I know, crazy right. ::)
That was wrong anyway. We already had discussions about black not being a color.
It then stands to reason, this design could be done in a digitally correct manner with two colors.
The catch is, you will still need at least four different inks. ;)
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You know I had the bit about black and white typed out to put in that post, but deleted it when I figured no matter what anybody here says we're still going to be screenprinting that job "mathematically" wrong in his eyes.
I think if I hear one more ink/emulsion/col sep. product that is a "game changer" or going to "put someone out of business", or "make the competition obsolete" before it's even released let alone beta-tested, I'm gonna puke on my keyboard.
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His reply oozed with condescension...and it didn't even properly answer the original question. Pretty obvious he either doesn't understand actual printing, or doesn't care enough to answer the question properly.
This thread isn't even about "digitally correct color", it was about how one would accurately quote based on factors like safety orange bleeding and whether a gray or white underbase in addition to a highlight gray/white was necessary, and how that choice would affect the other ink choices. There are a dozen ways to achieve accurate color and a quality print for a job like this, and for most of those options, NOT using cmyk will achieve the best results and the most vibrant print. One of the greatest things about screenprinting is how it isn't limited by the restrictions of digital printing when it comes to ink choices. We can mix a pantone spot color and print halftones wet on wet to achieve vibrance and color blending that simple isn't possible digitally...
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You know I had the bit about black and white typed out to put in that post, but deleted it when I figured no matter what anybody here says we're still going to be screenprinting that job "mathematically" wrong in his eyes.
I think if I hear one more ink/emulsion/col sep. product that is a "game changer" or going to "put someone out of business", or "make the competition obsolete" before it's even released let alone beta-tested, I'm gonna puke on my keyboard.
LOL so true. I have asked several times for a set of seps from the guy to prove his product and guess what? No response. None. If it does what is advertised why not send a sample sep for someone to test unless it is just another gimmick to prey on the newbies and inexperienced.
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I have emailed for help on his products on a couple of occasions ( since I use them) and have received no response whatsoever.
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I have emailed for help on his products on a couple of occasions ( since I use them) and have received no response whatsoever.
You and me both. I own one of his Corel plugins and never cold get it to work correctly. Now it sits in a CD holder never to be used again.
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Are we not printers? is it not our job to reproduce color accurately? Are we not dealing with digital color? Does math lie? Does math guess?
...
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I have emailed for help on his products on a couple of occasions ( since I use them) and have received no response whatsoever.
Because he already has your money. You should print this job how he says and post up a pic. Theory does not always equal reality.
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I just looked through some of his past posts...why would you guys have given this guy your money?! Half his posts are almost completely incoherent and he rambles about all kinds of nonsense in a dickish and condescending way. There were quite a few posts where he links videos showing beginner level photoshop stuff as if he is the first person to discover it, then drops random terminology to make it sound sophisticated.
I personally hand separate and apply traps and gutters as needed using photoshop, no rip, no plugins. I have a pretty long background using the software so nothing is really hard or time consuming, and making your own actions and macros to do certain things is simple as that capability is built into the software.
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"Computer science offers a few poorer cousins to these perceptual spaces that may also turn up in your software interface, such as HSV and HLS. They are easy mathematical transformations of RGB, and they seem to be perceptual systems because they make use of the hue–lightness/value–saturation terminology. But take a close look; don’t be fooled. Perceptual color dimensions are poorly scaled by the color specifications that are provided in these and some other systems. For example, saturation and lightness are confounded, so a saturation scale may also contain a wide range of lightnesses (for example, it may progress from white to green which is a combination of both lightness and saturation). Likewise, hue and lightness are confounded so, for example, a saturated yellow and saturated blue may be designated as the same ‘lightness’ but have wide differences in perceived lightness. These flaws make the systems difficult to use to control the look of a color scheme in a systematic manner. If much tweaking is required to achieve the desired effect, the system offers little benefit over grappling with raw specifications in RGB or CMY."
--Cynthia Brewer, American Statistical Association
Thought you might like to know.
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"Computer science offers a few poorer cousins to these perceptual spaces that may also turn up in your software interface, such as HSV and HLS. They are easy mathematical transformations of RGB, and they seem to be perceptual systems because they make use of the hue–lightness/value–saturation terminology. But take a close look; don’t be fooled. Perceptual color dimensions are poorly scaled by the color specifications that are provided in these and some other systems. For example, saturation and lightness are confounded, so a saturation scale may also contain a wide range of lightnesses (for example, it may progress from white to green which is a combination of both lightness and saturation). Likewise, hue and lightness are confounded so, for example, a saturated yellow and saturated blue may be designated as the same ‘lightness’ but have wide differences in perceived lightness. These flaws make the systems difficult to use to control the look of a color scheme in a systematic manner. If much tweaking is required to achieve the desired effect, the system offers little benefit over grappling with raw specifications in RGB or CMY."
--Cynthia Brewer, American Statistical Association
Thought you might like to know.
The blasphemy!
You sir must say ten Hail Marys and five of our fathers