Chemicals/Screen Setup - Critique Mine and Suggest Alternatives

[mimosatexas]

Updated 2/23/14

INK USED:
Various brands of plastisol and Matsui Discharge (about half and half split for my standard production), currently waiting on some samples of CCI and Magna discharge inks.

EMULSION USED:
Aquasol HVP (with post exposure and MS Hardener when using waterbased/discharge)

EXPOSURE SETUP:
DIY 1k Metal Halide with vacuum blanket for compression (loving the faster and more complete exposure with better detail.  I've also noticed the edges of my stencils are sharper so for higher eom screens I am seeing much cleaner prints on p/f/p whites)

Ink Degradent
Currently Use: Nothing. Just carding off ink pre-diptank or a quick rinse with water for waterbased inks
Used (and stopped): Easiway 701 (Now using as haze/degrease after emulsion breakdown), ICC 888 (garbage imo, would take multiple rounds to break down anything, and 3+ at minimum to clean up white inks)

Emulsion Remover
Currently Use: Easiway Supra in the diptank (amazing stuff.  does not really break down ink, but softens it enough that I can pressure wash the screen completely clean minus light haze)
Used (and stopped): Easiway 500 (works fine, but I still have some issues with hardened screens on occasion and have to pressure wash longer than I would like), ICC 937 (I have read that all emulsion removers are essentially the same, but this powder seems to require more water to fully dissolve, so the concentration isn't high enough to breakdown a hardened, post-exposed screen sufficiently, so I switched to the Easiway)

Degreaser
Currently Use: Easiway 701 (does quick work as a dehaze and degrease in one, still seeing some weird sheeting of the water during final soft rinse on screens that were used with poly whites, but it is not affecting the next screen prep)
Used (and stopped): ICC 858 (works well enough solely as a degrease, but is an additional step)

Dehaze
Currently Use: Murakami 700 (This stuff is amazing for those hard to clean hazes, but I am only using it once in a while on very badly ghosted screens)
Used (and stopped): (didn't use anything before)

I have also added a post exposure tank with just water to speed up the washout of stencils and it is working really well.  I don't think I could go back to not having it as part of the process.  I am finally able to cycle a screen every minute and a half or so, where one screen is exposing, one is dunked, and i am washing out a third while waiting for exposure to finish.  This with the metal halide has pretty much tripled my speed for creating screens.  I have also started squeegeeing water off after washout and drying times are greatly improved as a result.

[Nick Bane]

pull tape and scrape ink out of screens, into dip tank using CCI Dip n Strip for a few minutes, pressure wash out, scrub with CCI Envirohaze on both sides, rinse clean and dry, ready to recoat.  Thats what works for us.

[GaryG]

Hey Tex,
We use~
1) Kiwo Dual Strip (emulsion remover -and- ink degradent)
2) Kiwoclean Concentrated Ink Wash for
-Ghost ink left AND
-Degreasing ... in same step!
-No need for a dehazer

***I degreased for 20 years and have be able to-
 skip this whole step!!***
These are meant to work together like other Mfg. and has saved countless
hours over the last few years.

I couldn't believe that screens didn't have to be degreased, but screens are perfect.

Find a 2 Step process and give it a try. Some others here have said the don't degrease.
Considerable labor and material savings. Looks like you are a researcher like me, go at it!

[Printficient]

Xenon Plastiwash for ink removal.  XER 25 or 5 depending on dip tank or not for emulsion removal.  F.S.I.C for haze removal.  Degreaser for degreasing.  OR..... get in line for the industry changing unit coming out in FEB.

[mimosatexas]

pull tape and scrape ink out of screens, into dip tank using CCI Dip n Strip for a few minutes, pressure wash out, scrub with CCI Envirohaze on both sides, rinse clean and dry, ready to recoat.  Thats what works for us.

Have you tried the franmar dip tank solution as well?  I'd like to know how they compare as truly testing them would be pretty costly and time consuming.

Do you use discharge?  Any particular details related to using the envirohaze (spray on, wipe on, time left on screen, etc)?

Also, what emulsion, type of mesh, and exposure setup are y'all using?  Are you using both discharge and plastisol?  I updated the original post with my setup.

[mimosatexas]

Update on the Murakami 700.  This stuff is magic!  I have a few screens I have had since I started printing almost 7 years ago that have basically been collecting dust for the past 3 years as they finally were disgusting enough to be unusable.  I was planning on eventually putting them on a wall as decorations or something.  Tried it on one and it is good as new...crazy stuff.

[Nick Bane]

pull tape and scrape ink out of screens, into dip tank using CCI Dip n Strip for a few minutes, pressure wash out, scrub with CCI Envirohaze on both sides, rinse clean and dry, ready to recoat.  Thats what works for us.

Have you tried the franmar dip tank solution as well?  I'd like to know how they compare as truly testing them would be pretty costly and time consuming.

Do you use discharge?  Any particular details related to using the envirohaze (spray on, wipe on, time left on screen, etc)?

Also, what emulsion, type of mesh, and exposure setup are y'all using?  Are you using both discharge and plastisol?  I updated the original post with my setup.

Havent tried the franmar stuff, we get a great deal and awesome service from my CCI rep, and im happy with how it works, so thats what we stick with.

We do some discharge printing, but all waterbase ink is thoroughly rinsed before going into the dip tank.

the Envirohaze is what we use for dehaze/degreasing.  have it in a spray bottle, few sprays on screen, scrub both sides scrubber/scotchbrite type pad then pressure rinse clean.

Emulsion we have been using ulano orange for plastisol. and CCI WR-14 for waterbase, with CCI hardener.  mesh type is a mix of brands, some statics that have been in the shop longer than i have, and some rollers stretched with a mix of old and newer mesh, some thin thread.  83-305 thread counts. exposed on msp-3140.  we do mainly plastisol but a few discharge jobs thrown in at random.

[mimosatexas]

Does the dip tank sufficiently break down residual ink and emulsion to the point where you just pressure wash it out and it's basically good to go?  Do you ever have the need to use a more caustic dehaze or does what your using reset the mesh fully with each reclaim?  Having never dehazed before, I had layers of ghosted images on basically every screen, but most of it wasn't affecting anything.  The stuff I just got done using has reset all but two of them to looking brand new.  Those two both have a ghost from royal blue that is very faint, but isn't coming out.

[mimosatexas]

Went ahead and bought the diptank this morning.  It is 14" wide, 33" long, and 24" deep (interior dimensions), which google tells me is 47 liquid gallons. 

Would love to hear from a few others on dip tank chemicals, and more setups/critiques.

[alan802]

We are using the 701 for an ink degradent/haze remover and right now we are using CCI Gemzyme for the dip tank.  We've used Easiway Supra and a few other chems for the dip tank I can't remember.  We de-ink the screens before the dip tank and the CCI works great and we haven't had to change it in several months but have done one "recharge" in the dip tank.  For degreaser we use neutralize from CCI or ICC, can't remember but we only use it on newly stretched mesh.

Our dip tank breaks down the emulsion so that when you pull it out, it's still technically on there and hasn't released from the mesh so you hit it with the pressure washer and it falls out almost exactly like when you're developing a stencil with a higher mesh count and thin EOM to give some reference to how it works.  Ideally you want to have the screens in the tank long enough so the emulsion doesn't fall off while in the tank cause it builds up in the bottom of the tank and causes all kinds of unwanted problems. 

[mimosatexas]

Thanks for the info Alan.  You're using the AqHVP emulsion right?  You don't have to degrease dehaze?  The 701 is pretty bad ass, much better than what we were using, but I can still see a ghost after use with most inks.

I'll look into the gemzyme.  It seems like there are a lot of dip tank chem options.  Would love to know what will work best for the AqHV(P) emulsion with hardener and using both discharge and plastisol regularly.  Any issues with the dip tank chems and static glue that anyone knows about?

[ebscreen]

We use Aquasol HV and hardener with both plastisol and discharge inks. We use GemZyne in the tank.
After trying a few one step wonders and having them more or less fail, I set about trying
to find the easiest most cost effective emulsion remover for a dip tank. GemZyne is it.

[ZooCity]

Stripping emulsion just comes down to getting the most sodium periodate in the solution for the best price.  I'll third Gemzyne for that.  We only run half a 5er diluted with water in our large blackline tank and it's almost a little too fast.  Mix of hardened and not hardened Aquasol HVP screens here.   

I too have been completely non-plussed with the two in one solutions.  Seems like it's either an ink cleaner with weak emulsion stripping abilities or an emulsion stripper with weak ink cleaning abilities.  Sucks either way in my opinion.

But GaryG, I will say that Kiwo system sounds smart.  If you pair a dehazer/ink stain remover with the tank solution I could see it working out well- still only scrubbing the screen one time and if it can really degrease too that's saving a step for us. 

In the end, I think having dedicated chems for:  ink removal - emulsion reclaiming - dehazing - degreasing will produce the best results.  Maybe not the fastest but they'll do better when each is formulated for the task.

[mimosatexas]

I have two main issues that I'm hoping the diptank and better chems will fix:

Speed - I am essentially a one man shop and can't spend hours scrubbing screens and can't spend time cleaning between jobs midweek (when using discharge).  I'm hoping whatever chemical I end up using in the tank will play nice with a quickly carded and rinsed discharge screen (hardened AqHV and some residual ink), so I can drop em in and forget about them for a bit.  I am fine with the actual breakdown process taking longer in the tank as long as it isnt time spend scrubbing.

Longevity - My current setup has been ok at best in many ways, which is why I finally broke down and used the 700 to dehaze the screens and reset them back to "new",  but that is something I would like to avoid if at all possible.  The main issue I am having is with slight ghosts building up over time and causing failures on longer discharge runs in predictable areas.  The 701 has been a workhorse on plastisol, but there are still some issues with dried in waterbase on occasion.  I am fine using the 701, dropping in the tank for the emulsion, then using a dehaze/degrease combo that is caustic enough to break down the subtle ghosts, but not going to mess with the glue on my statics.

So far it seems the Gemzyne in the tank is getting a lot of yes votes, and the 701 is working fine for the plastisol ink pre-tank, but is there a sure winner for the dehaze/degrease?  Is there something like the 701 designed specifically to cut through those slightly dried in waterbased inks pre tank?

[ZooCity]

We like Franmar d-haze, it's not quite as effective as the Murakami 700 stuff you've been using but you don't cough and choke on it either.  For a friendlier dehazer you need to use it every time as part of the cleaning cycle, the gnarlier stuff can be used as needed I imagine. 

Our ink cleaner had been the CCI envirosolve for awhile now.  It's dirt freaking cheap (if you buy direct) and works well on plasti and wb/dc.