"He who marches out of step hears another drum." ~ Ken Kesey
I penned an article on the tapeless screen describing the method above probably 10 ys ago. I don't necessarily recommend this for every one however. It was for static frames and over time, if not applied correctly, the frame glue can interfere with the coating process which will eventually render the screen useless. One of those ideas which turned out to be unviable for us in the end. Over taping DC screens can actually cause problems so in the end, our solution to the tape issue is to use as little as possible.
I imagine, having seen Alan's process first hand, that two color jobs require no micros as well and would be set up nearly as fast. Add to that if their are repeats then films are faster on those jobs than dts as he has mentioned.Like you say, it's all about systems. If dts helped you improve that much, that's awesome. But recognize that you could have improved on previous systems and seen nearly the same sort of gains. I imagine, head to head with the same jobs, Alan and you would practically be neck and neck. Now give Alan 50k to spend on what he wanted (second press probably) and he would be crushing it. This is how Tony crushes it, no one can doubt his procedures.
28 souls on board in production. And sorry that article is in Printwear Heaven. Too long a process to post here. Brandt is right on some of those assumptions and if that big client jumps ship then you're sitting on some non productive sq ft, equipment, and labor. I'm sure Sam will proceed with caution.
I invite any of you to come see my shop. we are very systems oriented and we know where every penny is and how to maximize it. on the weekend work we are printing at 720/hr that is the max our press can do. also a lot of those jobs are 500-2000 pieces so set up is very important. most are 2 color but there are a few that are three and when we can just set up and go with no micros it saves a lot of time. I would love to have 10k runs that just set up and go and a faster press would be great but we all know those jobs are not around anymore. so again anyone wants to swing by and see our systems come on by!
I have to question WHO'S sucking all of the profit out of your businesses. Now multiple of you have gone as far as to say your shop is doing "double" or more than Sam. When you say something like that it actually hurts your own argument when you make a statement like that. How can DTS have such a poor ROI but Sam can easily afford it who apparently is "half" your shops size?I'm wondering if some of you do a ROI on a shirt cart, or a table, or a freaking chair at this point that just improves quality of life in the shop.
And I can tell you have another press adds a lot more to payroll, workers comp, insurance, space requirements, the list goes on and on. oh yeah and try finding people who actually want to work! hahahaha there is the biggest problem....there are plenty of jobs but not people who actually want to work.example: we do a day paid interview to show them what they are really getting into. I have had people who say no problem and cannot even handle 4 hrs working. really? 4 hours? but it is better to do that then put them on payroll to find out in 4 hrs they cannot do the job or do not want to do the job.plus my guys love the overtime. sam
Quote from: GraphicDisorder on December 18, 2013, 07:51:08 AMI have to question WHO'S sucking all of the profit out of your businesses. Now multiple of you have gone as far as to say your shop is doing "double" or more than Sam. When you say something like that it actually hurts your own argument when you make a statement like that. How can DTS have such a poor ROI but Sam can easily afford it who apparently is "half" your shops size?I'm wondering if some of you do a ROI on a shirt cart, or a table, or a freaking chair at this point that just improves quality of life in the shop. Ever thought that if a larger shop can't see a 12 month ROI there might not be anything wrong with that shop? Perhaps something is wrong with the smaller shop, or maybe the numbers don't make sense for another reason other than the bigger shop not turning a profit?
I know just by looking at impressions counts over the last 7 years that we've done roughly twice as many imprints on our machine. There is more to the equation but if it takes 7 years for a press to reach 1 million and 4 years for another press to reach 1 million, it's not exactly half but for arguments sake and laziness to not want to get an exact number I say "half" or "double" whichever you want to use. I know what types of jobs we're all printing, I know what the average customer is like at a custom screen print shop. I know the average job consists of 3.5 colors on dark shirts with 78% of those jobs needing 2 locations, bla bla bla. There are exceptions in everything and contract shops do different jobs than custom shops and whatever niche you go after will dictate what types of jobs you're printing.
The stuff Brandt prints is a lot different than what we do as far as print specs go and I bet Brandt's #'s are more like a 4.0 color average and well under 78% for 2 locations with probably half of them being one location.
Sam is one of the few that doesn't post many pics of what they print but I can put two and two together and I know a lot about what types of jobs a shop like Sam prints because our shops are damn near mirror images of each other. I know exactly how other shops are printing things, I can take one look at your prints and tell you exactly how you printed them, and how long it took you to print them on the machine you have. That's not a gift, it's just called being observant to the point of obsessive. It's probably more of a flaw than anything but when people claim things on the forum often times if the numbers don't look right I'll waste time trying to figure it out. Just like Sam did with his ROI figures, it struck me as very extreme and the further I dug, the more it didn't make sense. We all exagerate or we leave parts of the story out that would explain things but everyone's heels are dug in here and it's too late to clear up the story.
And again, who is saying they can't afford one? Who said anything about not having profits left over at the end of the year? I guess you are ASSUMING since some of us that don't believe the Sam ROI story as it's being told that it means we can afford one!!! Many of our arguments are we couldn't see a year ROI on a 50K investment because it's not possible at our shops and the scenario that I've layed out a dozen times where that type of ROI would be possible with that volume shop but Sam has told us 100 times how efficient and systems oriented they are. I mean the guy gets 720/hr out of an all air DB when others can't come close to that so that tells me they really know what they're doing. Now back to more facts as I see them: Higher volume shop=30 month ROI, lower volume shop=11 month ROI, "confused smiley here". And I've described the scenario at least a dozen times how this ROI thing works in regards to post-DTS and pre-DTS efficiency versus pre-DTS inefficiency so I'm not going to do it again since nobody is reading or comprehending it anyway.
My entire argument hinges on a few key facts and it changes completely if those two numbers are changed, or in fact not really facts at all. $50K is the first one, for arguments sake let's say 12 month ROI is the second one. Figuring ROI is not easy for some, but for others it's pretty simple to figure. This is the short and sweet version of how many of us do it, and it doesn't matter where we do it. You take how much you spend on film, how much labor is involved with using film for your screen development, then setup labor and a few other little things and then you compare them to post-DTS costs and labor and then you take that difference and work some magic with the cost of the machine and how much more money you're saving/making then out poops an ROI figure. Ever thought about what the ROI figures would be if you only paid 25K for a DTS instead of 50K and then do the math, works out twice as fast doesn't it? Math is a funny thing and if you change a few numbers in the equation the outcome changes.
I think the same reason why you don't have a 16 color challenger III, a sprint international HO and a Kiwo I-jet II is the same reason why many of us haven't bought a DTS unit yet. I'd love to argue that my example is extreme but most of us buy equipment when it has an ROI that we think is good. Your idea and my idea of a good ROI could be completely different but I'm not buying a $50K DTS machine until it makes sense on paper, regardless of whether or not we can afford one. I have bought things just because I can, a Breitling watch, a stupid Lexus SUV, an even stupider jet ski, but when it comes to the shop, we don't do things just because we can. I really hope you can understand that instead of assuming the shops that do more volume than Sam can't afford DTS because we're not making a profit. You assume SOMEONE is blowing all the money because we're arguing against a lofty ROI figure that quite frankly we just don't believe. Again, $50K, 12 month ROI, average one auto shop volume...not happening at SRI, or Graphic Disorder. And if you'd like to prove me wrong, I bet someone out there will gladly take your 50K and get you a DTS before the new year.
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Topic: Wow, Screen Tape Costs!!! (Read 53380 times)
