help choosing a mixing system

[Shanarchy]

I've been wanting to add an ink mixing system for a while. I'm having a tough time deciding which one would be the best for my needs. Hopefully you fine folks can help me.

I am looking at QCM, Wilflex, and Union.

I'd like a system where I can mix WOW inks with a nice opacity to them. I'd also like the option to mix a high opacity ink for the small run jobs (24 pieces red on black, etc) where I can P-F-P without an underbase.

Anyone familiar with the above systems and have personal experience with them?

Also, has anyone ran the numbers to see if it would be worth it to mix all your stock colors instead of buying them?

[ebscreen]

Union Mixopaque is probably your best bet. No experience personally, but one of our hosts Frog
uses it.

I don't believe Wilflex makes a p/f/p opaque style ink or mixing system. Though we have had good
results using the PC system with maximum pigment load and a touch of thickener. This for small
left chest type stuff, everything else we underbase.

[Frog]

Yep, Mixopake is probably not the very best system out there, but it was the best for my needs which sound a lot like yours.
I have used it since its introduction.
It also had the added bonus for me of giving the formulas for stock Union colors.
1. I'ts plenty opaque for P/F/P, but when based down with a soft hand base, (I use IC) it's also pretty good wet on wet, at least on light garments. I frankly do not have as good a result as I would like sometimes with WOW on underbases.

Being a complete ink, it's quite good for small quantities (PC's are next to impossible on some 100g amounts like I sometimes need for a dozen pocket prints)
PC's are also tough to find in small sizes besides the sample pints (if they still have them) $190 gallons can really add up, but at least they will last many of us a long time)
Mixo is available in quarts but man, the price has really shot up to around $28-$33 I think

Some colors are tough. I have had some formulas just not cut it, but they have also come back with some alternative versions over the years as well.

[ebscreen]

PC's are also tough to find in small sizes besides the sample pints (if they still have them) $190 gallons can really add up, but at least they will last many of us a long time)

Midwest is on the ball with this one. All PC's are available in quarts through them, only the most
used colors come in gallons. Magenta and Bright Orange list at $325 a gallon. You can literally drop $5 easy.

[Shanarchy]

Frog,

Union has a mach and a mixopake, right? Are these two completely separate mixing systems? Or can they both work together? I'm assuming they both work the same way, but one your are mixing HO inks and the other WOW inks? DO they sell starter kits? I can't seem to find a site that offers them. Just the inks themselves.

Also, for the Wilflex system, the equalizer was the one that sounded most interesting.

[Gilligan]

How is the Wilflex as far as WOW... I have been itching to pull the trigger... just figuring out if I can utilize PC as much as I hope I could.

[blue moon]

Frog,

Union has a mach and a mixopake, right? Are these two completely separate mixing systems? Or can they both work together? I'm assuming they both work the same way, but one your are mixing HO inks and the other WOW inks? DO they sell starter kits? I can't seem to find a site that offers them. Just the inks themselves.

Also, for the Wilflex system, the equalizer was the one that sounded most interesting.

we use the Unimatch for most of our printing. It is very translucent and it absolutely requires and underbase.
MIXO is pretty opaque and can be used PFP without an underbase, but we never found the results to be truly acceptable and very quickly dropped the system. I have seen it used on a manual and the results were significantly better as there was a ton of ink on the garment (well at least colorwise it was better, print was pretty much bulletproof).
Union, if I am not mistaken, specifies 83 mesh for the printing, YIKES! Also, due to the pigment loading, some of the colors are harder to hit. We've never managed to get a good red for example and overall, at least for our customers, the pantone matches were not close enough. Also, the WOW printing with it sucks. You will have to reduce/extend or add their WOW additive (at least it exists)!.

Unimatch is great for mixing and the colors are pretty bright and the gamut it can produce is pretty wide. The formulas are pretty close, but not dead on. Due to it's translucency it blends very well. It is designed for simulated process, so it works great WOW. We very seldom have any issues with that and have run as many as 8 colors WOW.

If you call your Union distributor they should be able to get you a kit. Full MACH kit with white ink and formula book was under $300. I would imagine you can get MAXO kit for about the same price.

We are sort of stuck with MACH as we have too much history (repeat orders) with it and switching would not make much sense now. If I had to switch , I would look into some sort of mixing system with different bases so we can use the pigments (but not concentrates) and make what ever we want.

pierre

[ZooCity]

QCM had the best thing going for what you want...had.  Not sure what the deal is now with Rutland making it but I would avoid old QCM stock form just before they sold like the plague.  Their QMX system killed it for WOW mixes. 

Zero experience with Union.  Doesn't it cure at 300˚F?  That's pretty nice. 

WFX Epic PC in here for us now.  Excellent WOW printing using the standard base.  Toss in fashion or soft hand base and the WOW printing sucks hard.  But again, excellent using the correct base. 

They do make a HO base now  We're currently doing like ebscreen and mixing maximum pigment inks for PFP stuff.  Haven't had a chance to get any HO base in as Nazdar only has 5ers available and damned if I'm going to "try out" 5 gal of anything but will at some point.  The HO base + max pigment = WFX "super opaque" spots.  Neither the super opaques or the HO base are officially low bleed but both have not had bleed issues for us so I guess there is some inherent bleed blocking in the Epic system.

If WFX made a base that was whatever they used for quick white, minus the white of course, it would be a perfect system as there would be your PFP low bleed ink. 

[StuJohnston]

I got a mixo system a while ago and it's ok. I think that the recommendation for the low mesh in the tech sheet is to make an opaque one hit print. Also, I think it's actually 63 tpi or something. The tech sheet also claims that you can push it through 305, but probably only with an auto. I have gotten opaque one hit prints out of it through 110, a little reducer added as well.

I recently took a gamble on the wilflex pc system with the top score base. I had a customer who wanted nike performance shirts printed and I was freaked out about cure temp and everything so I ended up going with top score. Since they didn't have the PMS color the customer wanted, or a similar one for that matter, in the RFU colors, so I grabbed a gallon of the base and quarts of the pigment. I am so happy with this ink! I've got some sample bases from wilflex a while back that I need to try with the pigments, there are so many bases..

[Frog]

Okay, back to the boards for a minute.

Back in the day, I used 110's (never anything coarser) for whites and the Mixo inks.
A few years back, I went pretty much with 160's with a little more EOM.
My 110's are all pretty much gone now, and I just started using some 140's and 125's for those heavy deposit jobs (like yellows, or when a job is all fleece)

And Shanarchy, I just base my Mixo's way down when going on whites. Never needed the other system.
My set came with a quart of all of the 11 standard colors , and I think a quart of extender base, and a gallon each of White and soft hand base. Some fooormulas also call for neons which were not included (and I recently found out are the same as the slightly lower priced Maxo)
I assumed that they still have a similar package

[StuJohnston]

This is the print with top score base and epic pc's. The color's way off, but I can't be bothered to bust out the slr. The print was through a 230 screen, could have been smoother I suppose, but this was literally the first thing I used it for. It's also nice and soft.

[Rockers]

I've been wanting to add an ink mixing system for a while. I'm having a tough time deciding which one would be the best for my needs. Hopefully you fine folks can help me.

I am looking at QCM, Wilflex, and Union.

I'd like a system where I can mix WOW inks with a nice opacity to them. I'd also like the option to mix a high opacity ink for the small run jobs (24 pieces red on black, etc) where I can P-F-P without an underbase.

Anyone familiar with the above systems and have personal experience with them?


Also, has anyone ran the numbers to see if it would be worth it to mix all your stock colors instead of buying them?

You do want to go for the Wilflex Epic PC system. Very good for WOW, high opacity for PFP and it gives you the flexibility to change the bases in case you need to print on poly tops. There is a starter kit with pint size pigments plus 1 gallon mixing base or you can get a kit that contains of quarter gallon pigments plus 5 Gallon of mixing base.

[Gilligan]

This is the print with top score base and epic pc's. The color's way off, but I can't be bothered to bust out the slr. The print was through a 230 screen, could have been smoother I suppose, but this was literally the first thing I used it for. It's also nice and soft.

Is this pfp, no under base?

[StuJohnston]

This is the print with top score base and epic pc's. The color's way off, but I can't be bothered to bust out the slr. The print was through a 230 screen, could have been smoother I suppose, but this was literally the first thing I used it for. It's also nice and soft.

Is this pfp, no under base?

Yup, with a modified cameo press.

[Gilligan]

This is the print with top score base and epic pc's. The color's way off, but I can't be bothered to bust out the slr. The print was through a 230 screen, could have been smoother I suppose, but this was literally the first thing I used it for. It's also nice and soft.

Is this pfp, no under base?

Yup, with a modified cameo press.

I think I was just sold!