Anatol Titan thoughts

[sweetts]

The big four things I want. A small footprint 10 feet, single phase power, 220 / 110,easily maintained for around 20 grand. So what else fits that bill? Diamondback? Javelin? I am in the discovery phase so any suggestions I would love to hear them and thank you guys for the input its extremely helpful.

[Prosperi-Tees]

For 20 grand brand new you are limited to the Anatol Titan, maybe Anatol Horizon or a Lawson. Step up to 25k or so and then you have the Diamondback and Workhorse Freedom.
Also you have to remember that the base pricing does not include crating, shipping and install which could run around 3-5k roughly plus your air compressor, chiller and plumbing, install of those and electrical work as well.

[GraphicDisorder]

We spent 10k installing our press and dryer.  You will be shocked how quick it adds up.

[TCT]

Your small footprint is going to be what kills you. It is really hard to find something to fit in a space like that, I think our first shop was like 16' wide and we were pushing it getting a 8/6. This was pre-Diamondback days, so the Horizon Mini was our only option. The Titan and the smaller Diamondback should fit but I don't know if Javelin goes that small. You may have to look for a custom configuration like a 6/4. Guess your other option would be to look at a Oval or Alpha-8, but you may have to raise your budget 6 times or so Keep in mind, you are going to need some extra room to walk around and load screens ect. Did you take into account that stuff and 10 feet is what you have left or is 10 feet your total room available?

Problem for guys like anatol is that soon they will find themselves fighting for no. 2 if they don't step up their game!

Are we even sure they are number 2? 

For the record I think Anatol makes a good machine.

Who would you say is number 2 (no pun intended) in market penetration (in the US).

Mu guess would be anatol is #2, and I would follow that guess with the reason for that position is because they seem to pioneer the smaller presses. Those smaller presses have to sell like 10-1 over a larger production press.
If you ask me(not that anyone would  ) but anatol would be smart to ditch their presses over $50K and focus on their presses under $25K. Bet their sales would stay the same.

To be fair Alex, what would it take/cost to TRY and be no. 1 at this point?

I don't think it would be worth it... Certainly not for anatol coming from their bad reputation/history.  Harder to work uphill already not to mention against someone like M&R.  Now if big green decides to make a run at it, sure it would be expensive and hard, but at least it wouldn't be rowing up stream for them.

Problem for guys like anatol is that soon they will find themselves fighting for no. 2 if they don't step up their game!

I don't think even anatol thinks he could tie or make a run for #1, but why the hell wouldn't you want to set a goal?


I also don't think it is realistic for "green" to set their sights on #2 either unless M&R, anatol, or Workhorse was bought, went bankrupt, or went out of business. S.Roque doesn't make a entry level press to compete with any of the big players here in the states. I don't think they will ever be able to either, their presses(like MHM) are to advanced to drop that low in price. You can't pick up a S.Roque for under $30K. I don't think they could even make a press that would air index because their pallets do not raise. Their best bet would to be to target the upper end market, like MHM is doing by dropping the E-Type. 

[TCT]

For 20 grand brand new you are limited to the Anatol Titan, maybe Anatol Horizon or a Lawson. Step up to 25k or so and then you have the Diamondback and Workhorse Freedom.
Also you have to remember that the base pricing does not include crating, shipping and install which could run around 3-5k roughly plus your air compressor, chiller and plumbing, install of those and electrical work as well.

I didn't even think of Lawson, that may be a option, I don't know squat about them though. There was 2 used ones for sale up here around me about a month ago. I will see if I still have the email for you if you want me to.

[ZooCity]

The big four things I want. A small footprint 10 feet, single phase power, 220 / 110,easily maintained for around 20 grand. So what else fits that bill? Diamondback? Javelin? I am in the discovery phase so any suggestions I would love to hear them and thank you guys for the input its extremely helpful.

90's Gauntlet 6/8 + comp/chiller.  Nothing special but gets it done and you already have the manual for what it can't do.  You'll outgrow the Gauntlet but get you a comp/chiller that will grow with.  Might want to compare the negatives of the old G's to those of a diamondback though.  Any entry level press will be a little salty and a little sweet to you, just need to find one that suits your tastes.   

The Titan has a lot going for it for space concerned shops but Anatol has some problems and I can't recommend overall.  Nice ideas but not enough behind them unfortunately.  They have design elements in their presses that are superior, execution appears to be the issue.   I think the problems must be more recent as those with older models seem to have had a fine time.  Ask anyone with a newer machine from them and you'll get an earful.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Or I would look at a semi older Javelin with a couple of flashbacks. Those can be found just like the Gauntlets for well under 20k and then you have the money to install, ship, get a compressor and chiller and repair a few things if you need to. Javelins are right around 11' in diameter but the flashbacks will add to that im sure.

[Northland]

I've got a 6/5 Titan. Love the servo index.
My business model is three colors -or- less.... it works fine for that.
It pairs up well with an 8' electric dryer (about 300 pieces/hr)
 
I really wish I could use a 23" wide screen... I can't go bigger than 21" wide
I avoid any print larger than 13"wide x 15"long

[Shanarchy]

I had a Horizon mini. It's a great press. There are some nice features on it for an entry level auto. The service dept isn't that bad, but sometimes takes a couple of reminder calls to get info. But there are some really good top notch independent techs out there. Brian (binkspot) is a great one. I've also heard Randy at OTS is top notch as well.  But they don't really break down. If you have the space get a full size.

I wouldn't personally do a TUF press unless it had the new chopper squeegees as opposed to the conventional v squeegees.

I wouldn't consider the Lawson Troopers. I was very unimpressed when I saw them. They feel very "entry level". Where as the Horizon or Diamondback feel real deal.

M&R you'd be looking at a diamondback. But they don't seem to pop up used very often, and when they do they still catch a good dollar.

I'm not sure if you are looking used or new, but those are the two I'd be looking at in that price range. If you don't have the space for a full size Horizon, you probably won't have the space for a Diamondback. If that is the case you'd be looking at either a mini Horizon or Titan. Keep in mind only the servo indexer's can "step back". I'd really try to make a full size fit. I did a lot with my mini, but wish I had the full size often.

Just my 2 cents.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Yeah the only reason I put the Jav and Lawson in that mix is if you need to print all six colors with multiple flashing the Jav/Lawson is the only option

[Sparkie]

The big four things I want. A small footprint 10 feet, single phase power, 220 / 110,easily maintained for around 20 grand. So what else fits that bill? Diamondback? Javelin? I am in the discovery phase so any suggestions I would love to hear them and thank you guys for the input its extremely helpful.

You are more than welcome to stop by and take my Brown ElectraPrint for a test drive. No air needed, just plug it in and you're ready to go. Maintenance is minimal and support will be there 100% if needed.

[GraphicDisorder]

For Anatol to be number 2, we must assume that Workhorse doesn't have 10 - 1 or more Javelins out there to Titans or Horizons.  At least in my searching before I knew much about the boards and the industry, it was very easy to assume M&R and Workhorse where the two main brands.  The others just don't show up the same in Google and so on.  (At least not back when I had started my research).  Market is/has changed for sure and I do think Anatol makes a good press and they have to be selling a good bit of those Titans and Horizons.  But is it out selling Workhorse yet?

What are we suggesting makes a company 2 now?  Total presses sold?  Total presses sold this year?  Total Sales?   

[TCT]

What are we suggesting makes a company 2 now?  Total presses sold?  Total presses sold this year?  Total Sales?

Good point Brandt, I was basing my ASSumption on total presses sold in the US in the last year.

[TCT]

The big four things I want. A small footprint 10 feet, single phase power, 220 / 110,easily maintained for around 20 grand. So what else fits that bill? Diamondback? Javelin? I am in the discovery phase so any suggestions I would love to hear them and thank you guys for the input its extremely helpful.

Just looked at the M&R line up catalog I have and the Diamondback L is listed at 8'6" so that would work. Don't let single phase power stand in your way either there are plenty of solutions for that.  The easiest one being if you get a new press specify that you need it to be made for single phase. The manufacturers can do that, you just need to tell them. There is also the option of a phase converter. Motors are happier running on 3 phase,  both for servo heads and servo indexing but also for a compressor.  They also work just dandy on single phase, so don't let that stand I'm your way.

[Gilligan]

For Anatol to be number 2, we must assume that Workhorse doesn't have 10 - 1 or more Javelins out there to Titans or Horizons.  At least in my searching before I knew much about the boards and the industry, it was very easy to assume M&R and Workhorse where the two main brands.  The others just don't show up the same in Google and so on.  (At least not back when I had started my research).  Market is/has changed for sure and I do think Anatol makes a good press and they have to be selling a good bit of those Titans and Horizons.  But is it out selling Workhorse yet?

What are we suggesting makes a company 2 now?  Total presses sold?  Total presses sold this year?  Total Sales?

Good point Brandt, I guess I just stopped looking at the Javs as a competent press with the V squeegee, but that doesn't mean they should be counted out.

Still not sure, just because they come up for sale used more often doesn't mean their are more of them... could just mean more people realize they want something else.

Bauraden's never show up for sale used, doesn't mean they aren't the best... just means people don't let them go!