Pierre aka Blue Moon's press experience?

[screenprintguy]

Say like on the S-type press, do all of the screen holders go up and down in a cycle, or only the ones on active heads? Just curious. I'm pretty sure the Challenger 3 screen holders only move up and down on a head that is active. Some vids I've watched from MHM looks like they all are always moving up and down, but that could just be for viewing in the video, MHM guys will have to tune in on this one.

[ebscreen]

All heads move up and down regardless if they are printing or not.

Tripped me out when I first got my press. I even asked about maybe adding
an on/off valve to save air. Now I could care less.

There's a hand valve that actuates a high lift for the front of the screen so that
nothing you're printing will ever be affected by having a screen in the head. We constantly
setup as many jobs as possible on press and then just lift the screens up.

I'd say the CH3 is an ode of sorts to the Syncroprint and 3000/4000 series machines.
Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery. Now if we could just get the FPU concept
to cross the Atlantic and marry it with the Tri-Loc I'd be in screen printing heaven.
M&R will likely be my next machines, because all else being equal, you can't beat American
made and serviced.

[screenprintguy]

my next question would be, since CTS is so spot on accurate, has any of the guys here using MHM gotten into CTS yet. Since the screens used in MHM and Sroques have to have pins installed on them, I wonder how that works out when a screen is snapped into the holder of a CTS. I know the I-Image simulates trilock with a 3 point stopping spots. Theoretically, it shoudl be faster and more dead on. I would venture to say the higher end M&R machines lock the screens in better since the do it in a totally different fashion than our Diamond Back. My buddy's been using to his Anatol presses, with their side clamps too. I know he's looking at an I-Image st, and a Kiwo DTS. I know when we lock our screens into our DB, there is some movement. he says on his Anatol there isn't and says the reason we have a slight shift is that we have a bar, where his presses have little feet that lock down on the frames. This is obviously a curious cenario as well. I know the flip up had on the C3 and those insanly heavy duty screen holders are really nice. Seems, as long as your frames are not "racked" there shouldn't be any movement, but you do have to pop a holder loose if you"need" to micro. On our DB most of the time, believe it or not, unless it's not a huge adjmustment, we don't even unlock the oposite side frame lock for microing, don't ask me how that works, it just does, weird but if it ain't broke, don't mess with it right.

[TCT]

my next question would be, since CTS is so spot on accurate, has any of the guys here using MHM gotten into CTS yet. Since the screens used in MHM and Sroques have to have pins installed on them, I wonder how that works out when a screen is snapped into the holder of a CTS. I know the I-Image simulates trilock with a 3 point stopping spots. Theoretically, it shoudl be faster and more dead on. I would venture to say the higher end M&R machines lock the screens in better since the do it in a totally different fashion than our Diamond Back. My buddy's been using to his Anatol presses, with their side clamps too. I know he's looking at an I-Image st, and a Kiwo DTS. I know when we lock our screens into our DB, there is some movement. he says on his Anatol there isn't and says the reason we have a slight shift is that we have a bar, where his presses have little feet that lock down on the frames. This is obviously a curious cenario as well. I know the flip up had on the C3 and those insanly heavy duty screen holders are really nice. Seems, as long as your frames are not "racked" there shouldn't be any movement, but you do have to pop a holder loose if you"need" to micro. On our DB most of the time, believe it or not, unless it's not a huge adjmustment, we don't even unlock the oposite side frame lock for microing, don't ask me how that works, it just does, weird but if it ain't broke, don't mess with it right.

From the DTS companies I have talked to, they all said it would not be a issue to have the DTS set up for S.Roque screens since they are so similar to MHM screens. None of them even hesitated.
The interesting thing is, with the addition of a DTS system a MHM or S.Roque user does not have a use for their FPU/PRU. I hadn't thought about this much in detail until I went and picked up 2 used FPU's(Pierre, I haven't forgotten about you) from a place that had upgraded to a DTS system. Spent a bit of time with the screen guy there, great guy. He liked the DTS system a lot, said one time they inadvertently held a .5%(yes, one half) dot. They couldn't even see it on the screen, but when they just printed that one screen there it was. He said it screwed up the whole print.
Sorry, I had gotten off the subject there, but they can be made to work with MHM or S.Roque screens, yes.

[dirkdiggler]

my next question would be, since CTS is so spot on accurate, has any of the guys here using MHM gotten into CTS yet. Since the screens used in MHM and Sroques have to have pins installed on them, I wonder how that works out when a screen is snapped into the holder of a CTS. I know the I-Image simulates trilock with a 3 point stopping spots. Theoretically, it shoudl be faster and more dead on. I would venture to say the higher end M&R machines lock the screens in better since the do it in a totally different fashion than our Diamond Back. My buddy's been using to his Anatol presses, with their side clamps too. I know he's looking at an I-Image st, and a Kiwo DTS. I know when we lock our screens into our DB, there is some movement. he says on his Anatol there isn't and says the reason we have a slight shift is that we have a bar, where his presses have little feet that lock down on the frames. This is obviously a curious cenario as well. I know the flip up had on the C3 and those insanly heavy duty screen holders are really nice. Seems, as long as your frames are not "racked" there shouldn't be any movement, but you do have to pop a holder loose if you"need" to micro. On our DB most of the time, believe it or not, unless it's not a huge adjmustment, we don't even unlock the oposite side frame lock for microing, don't ask me how that works, it just does, weird but if it ain't broke, don't mess with it right.

If the move is less than 1/8 inch, you don't have to unlock the frame.  All M&R presses work this way.  At least the 12 or so I have used work that way.

[screenprintguy]

my next question would be, since CTS is so spot on accurate, has any of the guys here using MHM gotten into CTS yet. Since the screens used in MHM and Sroques have to have pins installed on them, I wonder how that works out when a screen is snapped into the holder of a CTS. I know the I-Image simulates trilock with a 3 point stopping spots. Theoretically, it shoudl be faster and more dead on. I would venture to say the higher end M&R machines lock the screens in better since the do it in a totally different fashion than our Diamond Back. My buddy's been using to his Anatol presses, with their side clamps too. I know he's looking at an I-Image st, and a Kiwo DTS. I know when we lock our screens into our DB, there is some movement. he says on his Anatol there isn't and says the reason we have a slight shift is that we have a bar, where his presses have little feet that lock down on the frames. This is obviously a curious cenario as well. I know the flip up had on the C3 and those insanly heavy duty screen holders are really nice. Seems, as long as your frames are not "racked" there shouldn't be any movement, but you do have to pop a holder loose if you"need" to micro. On our DB most of the time, believe it or not, unless it's not a huge adjmustment, we don't even unlock the oposite side frame lock for microing, don't ask me how that works, it just does, weird but if it ain't broke, don't mess with it right.

If the move is less than 1/8 inch, you don't have to unlock the frame.  All M&R presses work this way.  At least the 12 or so I have used work that way.

 It took us a couple months to learn that when we first got our press. Everyone kept telling us to unlock the other side, and it was all wacky. Then I talked to a friend with a sportsman, even though his is front and rear, he told me the same and boom. But like you say, if you are way off, unlock and skate. Thankfully with the I-Image, microing is very very slight once and a while. I'm noticing a trend over time now that we've had it for 8 months. Say we are printing a 2-8 color job, which ever, it seems head number 1, underbase head, always seems to be the one off. I watch out for it now, but I'd be going around the press making the same adjustments of the other heads then figured it out, head 1 shifts the screen frame for some reason. It's time for a total re-leveling I'm thinking.

[alan802]

Alex, you can't index the Anatol from a print head?

[TCT]

Alex, you can't index the Anatol from a print head?

No.
I can clamp and unclamp the screens. We can kind of control the flood and print speed, but my 2yr. old son does a better job controlling his bladder. I imagine that is more of a function of it being pneumatic print heads though(the anatol, not my son )

[ScreenFoo]

my next question would be, since CTS is so spot on accurate, has any of the guys here using MHM gotten into CTS yet. Since the screens used in MHM and Sroques have to have pins installed on them, I wonder how that works out when a screen is snapped into the holder of a CTS. I know the I-Image simulates trilock with a 3 point stopping spots. Theoretically, it shoudl be faster and more dead on. I would venture to say the higher end M&R machines lock the screens in better since the do it in a totally different fashion than our Diamond Back. My buddy's been using to his Anatol presses, with their side clamps too. I know he's looking at an I-Image st, and a Kiwo DTS. I know when we lock our screens into our DB, there is some movement. he says on his Anatol there isn't and says the reason we have a slight shift is that we have a bar, where his presses have little feet that lock down on the frames. This is obviously a curious cenario as well. I know the flip up had on the C3 and those insanly heavy duty screen holders are really nice. Seems, as long as your frames are not "racked" there shouldn't be any movement, but you do have to pop a holder loose if you"need" to micro. On our DB most of the time, believe it or not, unless it's not a huge adjmustment, we don't even unlock the oposite side frame lock for microing, don't ask me how that works, it just does, weird but if it ain't broke, don't mess with it right.

If the move is less than 1/8 inch, you don't have to unlock the frame.  All M&R presses work this way.  At least the 12 or so I have used work that way.

 It took us a couple months to learn that when we first got our press. Everyone kept telling us to unlock the other side, and it was all wacky. Then I talked to a friend with a sportsman, even though his is front and rear, he told me the same and boom. But like you say, if you are way off, unlock and skate. Thankfully with the I-Image, microing is very very slight once and a while. I'm noticing a trend over time now that we've had it for 8 months. Say we are printing a 2-8 color job, which ever, it seems head number 1, underbase head, always seems to be the one off. I watch out for it now, but I'd be going around the press making the same adjustments of the other heads then figured it out, head 1 shifts the screen frame for some reason. It's time for a total re-leveling I'm thinking.

Seems like viscosity/tack of the white ink will offset registration down slightly--is it always off towards the pull direction?

[ZooCity]

If the move is less than 1/8 inch, you don't have to unlock the frame.  All M&R presses work this way.  At least the 12 or so I have used work that way.

Well dang, I'm going to try this out.  It holds an adjustment done in this manner throughout the run?

[dirkdiggler]

If the move is less than 1/8 inch, you don't have to unlock the frame.  All M&R presses work this way.  At least the 12 or so I have used work that way.

Well dang, I'm going to try this out.  It holds an adjustment done in this manner throughout the run?

absolutely!  been doing it this way for 16 years.

[244]

my next question would be, since CTS is so spot on accurate, has any of the guys here using MHM gotten into CTS yet. Since the screens used in MHM and Sroques have to have pins installed on them, I wonder how that works out when a screen is snapped into the holder of a CTS. I know the I-Image simulates trilock with a 3 point stopping spots. Theoretically, it shoudl be faster and more dead on. I would venture to say the higher end M&R machines lock the screens in better since the do it in a totally different fashion than our Diamond Back. My buddy's been using to his Anatol presses, with their side clamps too. I know he's looking at an I-Image st, and a Kiwo DTS. I know when we lock our screens into our DB, there is some movement. he says on his Anatol there isn't and says the reason we have a slight shift is that we have a bar, where his presses have little feet that lock down on the frames. This is obviously a curious cenario as well. I know the flip up had on the C3 and those insanly heavy duty screen holders are really nice. Seems, as long as your frames are not "racked" there shouldn't be any movement, but you do have to pop a holder loose if you"need" to micro. On our DB most of the time, believe it or not, unless it's not a huge adjmustment, we don't even unlock the oposite side frame lock for microing, don't ask me how that works, it just does, weird but if it ain't broke, don't mess with it right.

If the move is less than 1/8 inch, you don't have to unlock the frame.  All M&R presses work this way.  At least the 12 or so I have used work that way.

 It took us a couple months to learn that when we first got our press. Everyone kept telling us to unlock the other side, and it was all wacky. Then I talked to a friend with a sportsman, even though his is front and rear, he told me the same and boom. But like you say, if you are way off, unlock and skate. Thankfully with the I-Image, microing is very very slight once and a while. I'm noticing a trend over time now that we've had it for 8 months. Say we are printing a 2-8 color job, which ever, it seems head number 1, underbase head, always seems to be the one off. I watch out for it now, but I'd be going around the press making the same adjustments of the other heads then figured it out, head 1 shifts the screen frame for some reason. It's time for a total re-leveling I'm thinking.

due to the fact it's the white screen I would suggest you watch the squeegee pressure on that head if the image is out on the white towards the inside try backing off pressure. If off toward the outside increase the pressure and see if it changes before touching the micro.

[screenprintguy]

I will pay attention to that for sure Rich, thanks!

Ok so, so far what it looks like, is the M&R Challenger 3 is the only press that screen frames "only" move when the head is activated. Allowing one to possibly have another job or two on the machine without any worries of the screen coming down and touching, without having to do any other types of special adjustments to avoid that. I know the Roq looks like you move a handle and the print head doesn't travel as much. So with that said, being the fact that the C3's print heads as a whole only function if activated would say over all there is less wear on parts. Like if the MHM frames always move up and down, those parts are always getting wear and tear regardless if the head is in use or not, something for folks to think about. The Roq doesn't have any of those parts as it's 1 motor moving all of the frames up and down, but you could be screwed if that 1 motor goes out, all heads are down. I'm sure that motor is very reliable, but that might be the one costly part a high production shop with those presses should have handy. I know coming up with a motor sometimes isn't easy over night. I know we got off topic here, but I think this is very useful info folks looking into new machines. Like my friends, there are a ton of watchers who don't sign up to the forums, they just read. So getting a bit in depth about what certain presses actually do, I think, is good. Up till now, I had no clue that all screen frames on an MHM moved all the time, I assumed they were only active when activated. Reminds me of the "all heads chop" on our DB, which I personally can't stand, but they did away with that on newer models, which is a huge improvement, along with a servo indexer, Still the DB for it's price is a money making machine as it's been the drive for us. But back to the topic, it seems, no matter what machine you have, in the end, when you have enough daily use, all the machines need to be adjusted, and if done properly, might not be a monthly thing, more of an annual maintenance thing. Thanks everyone for being cool on this thread and giving your honest input from your daily, yearly, experiences with your gear!

Mike

[Printficient]

I will pay attention to that for sure Rich, thanks!

Ok so, so far what it looks like, is the M&R Challenger 3 is the only press that screen frames "only" move when the head is activated. Allowing one to possibly have another job or two on the machine without any worries of the screen coming down and touching, without having to do any other types of special adjustments to avoid that. I know the Roq looks like you move a handle and the print head doesn't travel as much. So with that said, being the fact that the C3's print heads as a whole only function if activated would say over all there is less wear on parts. Like if the MHM frames always move up and down, those parts are always getting wear and tear regardless if the head is in use or not, something for folks to think about. The Roq doesn't have any of those parts as it's 1 motor moving all of the frames up and down, but you could be screwed if that 1 motor goes out, all heads are down. I'm sure that motor is very reliable, but that might be the one costly part a high production shop with those presses should have handy. I know coming up with a motor sometimes isn't easy over night. I know we got off topic here, but I think this is very useful info folks looking into new machines. Like my friends, there are a ton of watchers who don't sign up to the forums, they just read. So getting a bit in depth about what certain presses actually do, I think, is good. Up till now, I had no clue that all screen frames on an MHM moved all the time, I assumed they were only active when activated. Reminds me of the "all heads chop" on our DB, which I personally can't stand, but they did away with that on newer models, which is a huge improvement, along with a servo indexer, Still the DB for it's price is a money making machine as it's been the drive for us. But back to the topic, it seems, no matter what machine you have, in the end, when you have enough daily use, all the machines need to be adjusted, and if done properly, might not be a monthly thing, more of an annual maintenance thing. Thanks everyone for being cool on this thread and giving your honest input from your daily, yearly, experiences with your gear!

Mike

I could be wrong, but my recollection of the latest S Type is that only the active heads move.  The 4000 however the whole top moves up and down.  The Oval I know is individual stations move only when activated.

[ebscreen]

Ok so, so far what it looks like, is the M&R Challenger 3 is the only press that screen frames "only" move when the head is activated. Allowing one to possibly have another job or two on the machine without any worries of the screen coming down and touching, without having to do any other types of special adjustments to avoid that.

Nope, S-Types will do that all day long. We have three jobs setup on one press right now, two on the other. We don't
even worry about bulky stuff like hoodie pockets. Line 'em up, ink and squeegees, lift the valve, print the other
jobs, and when it's ready, just drop the valve and print arm and print. Easy peasy.

As for wear, on my old American press, I went through Bimba chop cylinders like nobodies business. I haven't had
to replace a single Festo cylinder on either of my presses. I really do feel there's a huge quality difference there.
(they use air cylinders to raise and lower the screens)