CCI Pigment CMS with light/white shirts

[cclaud3]

Hey, I was talking with my CCI rep yesterday about the CCI Pigment CMS setup. I asked him if I just needed to swap to the regular clear, non-discharge base if I wanted to print onto whites. He acted like I was speaking another language. I was thinking if the system worked out it would be nice to keep the number of ink systems to a minimum. I could just make up my colors instead of stocking all of my plastisol colors just for light garments. He was really confused why I would use the pigment system on lights even though he said it would work. I told him I understand that I wouldn't be adding any agent to it, just using the colors straight with the appropriate base.

So, do most of you who a discharge system for your dark garments still use plastisol for your lights for ease of use? I can figure the benefits for both directions but just wondering what actual users do and not what the sales thinks. His reaction was just so strange.

[ebscreen]

We use CCI discharge base (un-activated) and Rutland pigments on lights with no problems.

You will always need plastisol unless you refuse to print certain garments/colors/designs though.

[cclaud3]

Thanks. Do you use a mix of WB systems due to some colors being more easily obtained in 1 vs the other?

[ebscreen]

We started with Rutland's mixing system then found CCI's base to be superior.

Switching bases is easy, pigments not so much. Rutlands pigments tend to be much
more concentrated than any others, though it really doesn't matter in the end. You use
less, but it costs more, etc.

But yes, Pantone 185 is much easier to hit with CCI base and Rutland pigments. And I've got a shirt
that's almost 2 years old (worn/washed weekly) that still looks bright as heck. Best combo
we've found so far.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

We started with Rutland's mixing system then found CCI's base to be superior.

Switching bases is easy, pigments not so much. Rutlands pigments tend to be much
more concentrated than any others, though it really doesn't matter in the end. You use
less, but it costs more, etc.

But yes, Pantone 185 is much easier to hit with CCI base and Rutland pigments. And I've got a shirt
that's almost 2 years old (worn/washed weekly) that still looks bright as heck. Best combo
we've found so far.

EB, we like the CCI bases too. I'm less excited about the CCI CMS pigments, but I'm getting a few repeatable colors added to our palette. I came over from Matsui, and I'm surprised how much CCI pigment I actually use in some formulas. (Like a medium navy blue). I don't have a great 185 RED recipe in CCI so far. I spike mine with 10% Matsui MFB Neo Red in 90% CCI premium D-Base...starting out with Sericol Texcharge Yellow Shade Red....but I'd rather not have to stock all that stuff.

If you are that happy with pigment system from Rutland, I might look into it.

[ZooCity]

I don't know what the hell is up with CCI's reps and total lack of tech support, it's annoying.  Mine told me that a giclee' print is equivalent to a serigraph and that we are stuck in the past doing serigraphs and doing things like printing in house plastisol transfers when "it could all be done digitally", that just shows an utter lack of knowledge, might go as far as to say a literal ignorance, of this industry and lo and behold I was told the same dude is their "main tech support guy" for the waterbase inks....great.  No offense to him or CCI but this is not a real solid way to go about this.   

Your question is valid- for christ sake's they make a "WB" base and a "Discharge" base.  One might presume that each is for each purpose otherwise why are they making both bases?

Anyways, my experience with unactivated sericol is passable but mixed results with a lot of lightening at the end of the dryer as straight dark on lights wb.  CCI, on the other hand, has performed well using d-base, unactivated and appx 20% pigment load.  I agree, the CCI pigs need high loading.   

Yes, we use WB wherever possible and especially for dark in on lights, just makes a superior print all around and costs less.  Hope that helps a little.

[CCI TECH]

I think the CMS kit is really good. The W-base and pigments works great on white and I hit the PMS colors much easier than with the Rutland or the Matsui ever did. On blacks with the D-base I use the boost feature in the software. I get great results. Ebscreen try that for your 185 color. And ZooCity, CCI has always been helpful to me, I don't think you know the guys well enough to say that kind of stuff. Have you ever met them?

[ebscreen]

First post is nothing but glowing remarks for the company in question and derision for those that would critique?
Color me suspicious!

[ZooCity]

I think the CMS kit is really good. The W-base and pigments works great on white and I hit the PMS colors much easier than with the Rutland or the Matsui ever did. On blacks with the D-base I use the boost feature in the software. I get great results. Ebscreen try that for your 185 color. And ZooCity, CCI has always been helpful to me, I don't think you know the guys well enough to say that kind of stuff. Have you ever met them?

Say what kind of stuff?  That's what I was told directly.  Nobody can explain the two bases nor the pigment loading question, I only get the run around, and if my rep wants to say those things I mentioned as an aside, which he did, to someone who partially makes a living as a serigraphist, that's his prerogative not mine and yes, that kind of comment is indeed ignorant by the very definition of the terms. 

But you are correct, whether or not that translates into other holes in understanding the product is a judgement I'm not qualified to make.  I don't know anyone personally very well, I'm sure they're all great folks even though that has nothing to do with our discussion here.  My sincere apologies.  I like CCI, they've been good to us so far and make great products that we use everyday. I'm not making blanket statements on the co., just voicing a mutual frustration with the original poster here.

So help us out 47, what's the answer you've got from CCI regarding the difference between W-Base and D-Base?  What is the max pigment load for each CMS pigment?

[dirkdiggler]

A rep told me that the chemist who makes it said you can double it, its just gonna cost ya!  But worth it in my opinion.

[Dottonedan]

I have one customer who does all waterbase printing on lights and whites + discharge additive on colors. Uses the same ink system. They have no plastisol in house.

[cclaud3]

Thanks everyone for the info.