Bare infrared heating panels? Source?

[hboothe]

No, I still stand by my original statement
If you take a some time to read all of the old equipment posts here, I think that you will find more than one "diy" project which was quite clever, well done, and praised and labeled as such here.

Frog, my mistake, I misunderstood your statement earlier.  Good link to some DIY stuff was posted.
--HC

[hboothe]

Nothing but good advice above, some from people that know all from heat-guns to giant gas dryers and everything in between. I don't see any attitude from anybody above, perhaps you're reading it in where it isn't.

Not trying to be rude, just straight talk, but you're posts seem to contradict themselves as to whether you're jumping into this as a real business you intend to grow, or if "It's something I'll do for a while until my next fad project consumes me". As far as answers to your question go, the two are mutually exclusive in my mind, and depending on which you're looking to do, my answer would vary greatly.

Anything I could add has been posted above. My 14' Hix conveyor dryer was bought used for $200 and would plug right in to a 230V 40amp or above outlet, and would handle anything a manual printer can throw at it and most of what my Auto can do.

First, you may be right, I may be reading attitude that's not intended; it's difficult to understand feelings and intent with the written word.

Nothing rude about what you're saying and you are picking it up correctly; it is a bit confusing trying to read what my intentions are.  When I started metal fabrication I started by building trailer mounted smokers.  Just one, really.  I had a regular job and income so buying a 1,400 buck good-quality wire welder wasn't a problem.  The $1,550 plasma cutter wasn't a necessity but I bought it anyway, because I could.  I didn't buy the best wire welder I could have, nor the best plasma cutter, but I certainly bought more than most folks would buy just for hobby equipment.  I was walking in the gray areas; not the cheapest, not the most expensive, all just having fun.  But I didn't buy a 13-20k plasma table to cut my unique metal parts; I used a radius tool I made to cut the circles and hand-plasma cut the smaller stuff and ground the multiple items to be identical.  I spent a lot of time on my knees cutting circles from plates and grinding little parts side-by-side to be identical.  When I sold the first one I'd done just screwing around and made $2k profit I got more serious.  I started using what I had and pouring the money into better tools and equipment until I finally could blow the $16k on a commercial plasma table (and then went ahead and did it DIY for $5k anyway). 

The point is that I try to get the best stuff that I can that fits my own personal and perceived cost/benefits analysis.  Sometimes I do it DIY anyway, even if I have the cash, just because I can and I enjoy it.  I'm not going to try to use a bathroom heat lamp to flash cure my shirts because I don't think it will do it right at all...but I'd like to not spend 500 to 700 dollars plus for a commercial unit if I can buy the same panel for 150-200 bucks and do the rest myself.  It's all internally driven and the cost/benefits are sometimes arbitrary.

And if I start selling printed shirts, that may cement my involvement just as selling that first then the second and more trailer-mounted smokers cemented my involvement in building smokers and general fabrication.  If my first smoker had not sold I'd not be building them to this day, 8 years later.  If the shirts sell and make me money I'll pour the profits back into the business in the form of better equipment.

In the case of the flash dryer; I want to do it as cheap as I can as long as it does the job properly.  By properly I mean that I should be able to flash white ink on a dark shirt and then re-print the shirt and have it build a layer up effectively producing a whiter white and hiding fiber strands.  If it doesn't work I will re-consider a professional unit.  If it does work and I start clearing hundreds in profits then I might still buy a professional one.  Right now I can print simple shirt designs which I'm happy with and meet the needs of a couple of businesses which may (or may not) buy shirts from me and I can do it with only maybe 300 bucks in equipment and supplies.  I'm hesitant to spend the 500-700 on a piece of equipment that may not do me any good if neither of these businesses (and no others) actually ever buy anything from me.

Anyway, yes, you're right, it's hard to know what I'm doing and where I'm going with this, I don't really know myself.  Right now all I want to do is find a source and relevant part numbers for the units that Ryonet and other companies use to get their flash cure units...if they buy them then I should be able to, as well.  One step at a time.

I do check Craigslist from time to time but since it's about an hour to the closest area covered by CL it makes it difficult to jump on deals.  Besides, I'll feel a sense of pride if I manage to source the panels and build my own.  But...a commercial conveyor for $200?  Yeah, I'd jump all over that like fat chicks on a buffet.

--HC

[Inkworks]

You sound like a resourceful guy. I build a lot of my own stuff too, but not if it's easier and cheaper to wait until the right deal comes along on a used piece of equipment.

Some other places to look for a deal:
Ebay (bought my 12/14 auto off of there, in the last 2 weeks I've done enough on it to pay off over 1/3 it's cost)
http://www.screenprintexchange.com
http://www.digitsmith.com/f6.html
http://spresource.blogspot.ca
http://www.cosmexgraphics.com/used_textile.htm

Buy the best you can at the time, nothing is more expensive than buying something twice because the first purchase couldn't do the job. I'd say 90% of my stuff was paid for in 1 decent job run on it.

You've found the best forum on this topic, there are others, but some are dead, and some are newbie/hobbiest oriented without much serious discussion of real shops and how they work....and don't work. Forums make for a very quick learning curve. The only better way to go is to work at a good shop and learn from the inside. Screenprinting isn't rocket science, but it is several dozen little niggly things you need to get right every time or you can run into serious trouble. the devil is in the details.

[hboothe]

You sound like a resourceful guy. I build a lot of my own stuff too, but not if it's easier and cheaper to wait until the right deal comes along on a used piece of equipment.

Some other places to look for a deal:
Ebay (bought my 12/14 auto off of there, in the last 2 weeks I've done enough on it to pay off over 1/3 it's cost)
http://www.screenprintexchange.com
http://www.digitsmith.com/f6.html
http://spresource.blogspot.ca
http://www.cosmexgraphics.com/used_textile.htm

Buy the best you can at the time, nothing is more expensive than buying something twice because the first purchase couldn't do the job. I'd say 90% of my stuff was paid for in 1 decent job run on it.

You've found the best forum on this topic, there are others, but some are dead, and some are newbie/hobbiest oriented without much serious discussion of real shops and how they work....and don't work. Forums make for a very quick learning curve. The only better way to go is to work at a good shop and learn from the inside. Screenprinting isn't rocket science, but it is several dozen little niggly things you need to get right every time or you can run into serious trouble. the devil is in the details.

Thank you for the reply and the links.  Thank you for the compliment; I'm definitely not a one-trick pony. 

Basically I'm at the point of buying equipment (or making equipment) which I may not ever get a paying job to use it on.  I like the process and I find it satisfying to produce a design and then actually put it on a garment.  So, I'm hooked.  For now.  If I start making money then it'll be really fun and I'll keep doing it for the foreseeable future.  But, for now, I'm going to do things a cheap as I can within the confine of: is the product right?  Right being defined as; is the product accurate (design/print) and is the product durable (did I cure the ink properly, apply enough ink).  I have 7 shirts I printed, white on dark blue, and I already learned I need to flash between two (and maybe more) coats to hide the dark color and loose threads.  I cured the shirts for different times at a certain temperature and marked the tag on each shirt with which temperature and how much time.  I am now wearing and washing the shirts and I'll learn what works and what doesn't.

I do agree with the idea of buying a hot deal if one comes along; it's easier to buy equipment than it is to make it.  For instance, I buy my screens.  I get aluminum frames with screen already stretched for 25 bucks (20x24) plus shipping and that's way too cheap to consider trying to make a wooden frame and stretch fabric and put a bazillion staples in to hold the mesh in place (a lot of people do this, but I find the cost/benefits to be in favor of just buying the things ready to go).

I have contacted Pro-Therm and Intek to get more information on which panel I should buy and get a price to find if it's really going to save me money on the flash cure unit.

My next DIY attempt is to design a multi-station, multi-color press with micro registration.  That's going to take awhile as I don't mess with this stuff on a daily basis but I will get going on it and we'll see what happens.  I'd like to eventually put together a complete write-up on what I've done to help others so they don't have to go through the learning process the hard way like I did.  There is a LOT of information on this process online and some of it *seems* to fall into the category of FUD marketing (fear, uncertainty, doubt); you need to use RIP software for your positives, you need to buy the right pad to roughen your new screens, you need to buy this chemical to clean your screens, all with unspoken, but inferred, risks of not getting the job done if you don't.  Like maybe everything in life, if there's a job to be done, there's someone out there who will take every last penny you've got selling you stuff to do it. 

Anyway, back on topic; yes, the devil is in the details.  The biggest obstacles I have fought so far is making film positives and curing the plastisol.  For the film positives I used CorelDRAW to design my artwork and then made a custom color with a mix of all three RGB colors and print it in color...I get deposits from each of the print heads (I believe; I have no way to truly know, but I do know I get a much darker/denser print than I did printing pure black in black and white).  I get good exposure on the exposed areas and the design washes away easily.  As you know, I'm still working on the curing part.

Thanks again.

--HC

[Frog]

You sound like a resourceful guy. I build a lot of my own stuff too, but not if it's easier and cheaper to wait until the right deal comes along on a used piece of equipment.

Some other places to look for a deal:
Ebay (bought my 12/14 auto off of there, in the last 2 weeks I've done enough on it to pay off over 1/3 it's cost)
http://www.screenprintexchange.com
http://www.digitsmith.com/f6.html
http://spresource.blogspot.ca
http://www.cosmexgraphics.com/used_textile.htm

Buy the best you can at the time, nothing is more expensive than buying something twice because the first purchase couldn't do the job. I'd say 90% of my stuff was paid for in 1 decent job run on it.

You've found the best forum on this topic, there are others, but some are dead, and some are newbie/hobbiest oriented without much serious discussion of real shops and how they work....and don't work. Forums make for a very quick learning curve. The only better way to go is to work at a good shop and learn from the inside. Screenprinting isn't rocket science, but it is several dozen little niggly things you need to get right every time or you can run into serious trouble. the devil is in the details.

Thank you for the reply and the links.  Thank you for the compliment; I'm definitely not a one-trick pony. 

Basically I'm at the point of buying equipment (or making equipment) which I may not ever get a paying job to use it on.  I like the process and I find it satisfying to produce a design and then actually put it on a garment.  So, I'm hooked.  For now.  If I start making money then it'll be really fun and I'll keep doing it for the foreseeable future.  But, for now, I'm going to do things a cheap as I can within the confine of: is the product right?  Right being defined as; is the product accurate (design/print) and is the product durable (did I cure the ink properly, apply enough ink).  I have 7 shirts I printed, white on dark blue, and I already learned I need to flash between two (and maybe more) coats to hide the dark color and loose threads.  I cured the shirts for different times at a certain temperature and marked the tag on each shirt with which temperature and how much time.  I am now wearing and washing the shirts and I'll learn what works and what doesn't.

I do agree with the idea of buying a hot deal if one comes along; it's easier to buy equipment than it is to make it.  For instance, I buy my screens.  I get aluminum frames with screen already stretched for 25 bucks (20x24) plus shipping and that's way too cheap to consider trying to make a wooden frame and stretch fabric and put a bazillion staples in to hold the mesh in place (a lot of people do this, but I find the cost/benefits to be in favor of just buying the things ready to go).

I have contacted Pro-Therm and Intek to get more information on which panel I should buy and get a price to find if it's really going to save me money on the flash cure unit.

My next DIY attempt is to design a multi-station, multi-color press with micro registration.  That's going to take awhile as I don't mess with this stuff on a daily basis but I will get going on it and we'll see what happens.  I'd like to eventually put together a complete write-up on what I've done to help others so they don't have to go through the learning process the hard way like I did. There is a LOT of information on this process online and some of it *seems* to fall into the category of FUD marketing (fear, uncertainty, doubt); you need to use RIP software for your positives, you need to buy the right pad to roughen your new screens, you need to buy this chemical to clean your screens, all with unspoken, but inferred, risks of not getting the job done if you don't.   Like maybe everything in life, if there's a job to be done, there's someone out there who will take every last penny you've got selling you stuff to do it. 

Anyway, back on topic; yes, the devil is in the details.  The biggest obstacles I have fought so far is making film positives and curing the plastisol.  For the film positives I used CorelDRAW to design my artwork and then made a custom color with a mix of all three RGB colors and print it in color...I get deposits from each of the print heads (I believe; I have no way to truly know, but I do know I get a much darker/denser print than I did printing pure black in black and white).  I get good exposure on the exposed areas and the design washes away easily.  As you know, I'm still working on the curing part.

Thanks again.

--HC

It sounds like you do realize that much information out there is suspect. Good.

1. Unless outputting on a PostScript equipped laser printer,  halftoned designs do require a RIP or bitmap workaround to adjust the dots to suit our needs. Otherwise, one is stuck with default settings meant for printing on paper with your desktop printer. Programs like CorelDRAW have these features, but only usable with a RIP, Postscript, or as I said, a bitmap workaround.
For the tight-fisted there is a free RIP called Ghostscript which has been discussed here in the past, probably in the Separations section.

2. Roughing up new mesh at all is akin to going out of one's way to use bad oil in a car's engine.
It shortens the life of the mesh.
Used to be considered a good practice to help adhesion when using capillary film (rather than direct emulsion) but has pretty much been discredited even for that. The negatives far outweigh the positives. Mesh is a delicate thing. Higher tensions and higher mesh counts that produce softer hand prints especially bear this out.

As I said, it's good to be sa little skeptical. Consider the source.
Not meaning to sound offensive towards other forums, but there are places out there where if not the blind leading the blind, at the very least, many of the well-intentioned "leaders" have poor eyesight.
On the other hand, perhaps we need to make a huge distinction between folks looking to learn this stuff with quality production in mind as the goal, and those dabbling with it as an art project.

btw, even the latter will eventually see the folly of some of their ways.

Think of it as a properly stocked toolbox as opposed to a pair of Vice Grips and a Crescent wrench (or more likely, the Harbor Freight equivalents)

That said, we all started somewhere, and you truly are welcome, and we look forward to seeing your accounts as your journey progresses.
Frankly, we don't have as much Newbie activity here as I would like.

[Frog]

We should also probably talk in a little more detail about your Printer and film, but perhaps that would be better served (and help more in the future) in the Computer or Screen Making section.

What printer and ink do you use? What film do you use?