Drag and Drop Browser Seps

[AdvancedArtist]

I have had so much heat for my statements.

http://68.80.79.166/seps.html

Drop a file in your browser bam it is seped and half toned. Everything is changing fast.

If your a pro separator everything will change in the next few months to one year.

Those of you that hate me. I have been trying to give you a heads up.

[repogolfer]

Pretty cool...I would like to see the seps on a file I just did it to....looks good though.


Jon

[ericheartsu]

just tried it out. seems pretty cool. what's the next step after dropping in the file?

[3Deep]

Tom not to start any thing with ya here, but yeah auto seps are great, nice for us that know very little about doing high end seps, and could save us some cash.  But the pro seps guys will still get work plenty of work those that stay in the biz, seems like to me your trying very hard to reinvent the wheel.  I don't even us corel but see alot of really good stuff you have going on with it, and corel users will be very pleased with your efforts in making there life easy...the only reason I,m bumping my gums is cause you keep tossing jabs at the pro sep guys, keep doing the good stuff your doing and let them keep doing the good stuff they are doing.

Darryl

[Dottonedan]

Yes,  if this drag n drop goes as planned. It could be very good for the industry.

It's not Toms Drag N Drop, but I'm sure Tom may want to work together on something.  The first link is at T-Shirt forums.


I think the guy owns this site. Same screen name as this Co. Just a guess that he's the same guy that has the Drag N Drop. Different Co products tho.
http://www.ezscreen.com/

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/graphics-design-help/t223492.html


Could be a good thing.

[AdvancedArtist]

Its not mine and I am not making jabs.. I have been.. while being accused of many alternate motives.. trying to open eyes. Technology and information is going to speed up and soon we artists will not even think about separations when we are designing. Believe me and this is just another example.

Finally screen printing is being modernized and our potential for accuracy and color replication is far greater than any of us have ever imagined but we have never looked at the math and science correctly so we have stayed in the stone age. But all that is going to change in the next few months to a year.

[Dottonedan]

I hope it does and expect it will. Thats how technology rolls, only forward.
I uploaded a sample. Can't tell too much from it but looks very interesting.


What would be great is to have a sep program that automatically created spot colors of tones instead of using mixes of other colors to create the color. Then that would peak my interest. Thats what we really need.

[ravenmark]

I hope it does and expect it will. Thats how technology rolls, only forward.
I uploaded a sample. Can't tell too much from it but looks very interesting.


What would be great is to have a sep program that automatically created spot colors of tones instead of using mixes of other colors to create the color. Then that would peak my interest. Thats what we really need.

Cha ching, spot on Dan, There are a ton of the ones that break colors up into red yellow blue etc to mix colors. I have not checked it out but seems at first listen to be just another of the same old same old. Will be sure to check it out.

[ZooCity]

Dan, your point is excellent.

I always compare our industry to offset, flexo, etc. and wonder if they do the same thing(s) when sepping?  I know bump plates are used and likely need human artistic input at prepress but much of the image is reproduced in cmyk, hexachrome(rip) and the like.  I do look at food packaging and see what resembles what we call "sim process" a lot too.  My guess if you are going to print off 10 million units of something every week then you spend a few days nailing it down first.

Textile screen printing is not like this in regards to sheer volume produced in a run so we have less resources to put in on the pre press side and then also in it's very notable limitation in the dot shape due to the substrates we print on.  Spot colors are king in textile printing and are why digital has not been able to surpass us- what we do, archaic as the art is, is still the most appropriate and efficient technology.

So how would a drag and drop separation program that breaks an image into set component colors, each spanning the entire image at various percentages replace color separators?  It won't, by the very nature of what it's doing...probably ever.  It's not like others haven't considered this approach already and came to the obvious conclusion.  Nothing new, dramatic or exciting there but always fun to nerd out and think about this stuff.

[DDSol]

Hello. I'm new here. I can't believe I can do marquee with this editor. The button's attracting my attention a lot.

I made that thing Tom is talking about.

Anywho, Dan, you say "spot colors of tones". I don't know what that means, but I'll add it as soon as you let me know what that is. If it's not added already, that is. Because... uh, you can (well, not yet! Patience please) add any color you like. Pinks, Dark greens, Urobilins, Verdigris etc. are no problem. It can sep a sunset to yellow, pale yellow, mellow yellow, urobilin, vermillion and auburn all at once. It doesn't have to use these bright colors it usually comes up with. It's just that the 8 corners of the color cube make for the biggest gamut. That's RGB and CMY and Black and White. It doesn't tell you how to mix inks in a jar yet, but it likely will later on. That way you can just pick a PMS or whatever other color and say "I use Rutland inks" and then it'll tell you how to mix the ink. But that's for later. You can go to Rutland for that anyway... I hope that last one isn't what you meant with "spot color of tones"...

The test is just a test. It's an awesome test, but no films. Films will be rendered on the server and that stuff is totally not done yet. It's not easy having to write things in multiple languages, you know, and for multiple OSs... It's work! But I'll have it not too long from now.

And ezscreen.com is totally not mine. Someone else is doing that. I don't even know what it's for... sorry.

Anyway, if you don't like something about it, let me know. I'm gonna fix it up to make you happy. The only thing I can't do is remove it because it threatens your job, your friend's job or because you don't like me. There's too many people that would be grateful to have it and I wouldn't want to disappoint them.

I'm here to supply solutions. If you think it stinks in some way (not talking to you Dan, just anybody) then Good for You. It's important you have an opinion or you'd be no better than a potato! And so you have one and that's a great start!

@raven, just so you know, this does SPOT SEPS and there are many others that do that. So Yeah, it's "just another". I'm just joining the ranks of the tired old "I can do better" clan. Those who can refrain from judgement and open their minds may just find that I'm just one of the few who's actually right. This is not some script I threw at PS to sell it as a "separation engine". Instead, I built (in real programming languages that compile to machine code) a separation engine engine. Yes, an engine that makes separation engines. What you see in the browser, that thing that makes it, that was made just for your sep. It depends on your inks, which depend on your image. Your art has a (often times) unique, never before used engine that separates your art so it fits your inks, your screens, your methods and your shirt color.

I'd be lying if I would say anything besides that I think this thing is unlike anything anyone has seen before. I'm not naming names, but suffice it to say that "anything" includes the whole list, except I don't know jack about ICISS. So I can't say... .

This may be just another program that breaks colors up into red yellow blue etc, but it does that better than any program out there for one, and for two it will also break colors up into vermillion, auburn and dark, dark maroon. You can't see that because that big "+" with the ink splash doesn't do anything... yet. Note the 'yet'. Coming soon. Patience... .

Instead of telling me how it's boring and the same, tell me what you want. Because I'm telling you, I can put it in there. That's not a joke or anything. I'll just put it in there and that'll be that. This thing is not a part of the ton of "I think I can".

And I don't want to brag. But I put a boatload of work into this. 3 years and counting. (or is it 5? It'd have to check). In any case, at least 3 years. And that's a lot. And so if I put in the sweat then I may just get the props as well. But I have to say that it irks me when @ravenmark says that it's same old same old, when by his own admission he hasn't even looked at it yet. I think forming opinions on things you know nothing of certainly has the effect that you can't benefit from knowledge, but only am hampered by an unfounded opinion. I mean, would you try it thinking it's crap before you even try? Why? It's crap right? No need to try crap.

So anyway, weird that there's a (big) hint of hostility before I even register with the damn forum. Thanks for the warm welcome there raven...

As for Dan, I'm sure you'll be happy! That "+" button is going to make all the difference! Patience...

@ZooCity: The miracle is that this drag and drop thing does not do what you say it does. The component colors are not "set". They are completely flexible. Not that you can tell, sure. That "+" button does nothing. There's no "-" button. You get whatever the thing recommends and you can't even get your films out! But then again... it's a beta test! And so, even though you say "it won't, by the very nature ... probably ever", it already is doing that. Now. Even this test. It even chooses inks for you. You don't have to do that. It's not perfect in picking the inks, mind you (work in progress), but it is extremely close to perfect in using those inks and you can change the inks (when it's done, again, this is a test). It will turn the King into the Emperor. DTG will be like not a good idea unless it's for 3 shirts. Even then... it looks better as Spot!

[DDSol]

By the way, just because it's extremely simple to use and any moron (or very smart person) can use it, does not mean that it's stupid, or simple, or easy on the inside of it. At the heart of this lies a beast of an equation. But if you don't believe me, which I doubt any of you do, and I understand why (it's not your fault, there's truly a lot of hacks around), then you can go ahead and look at the source. It's javascript after all. Your browser compiles it. And when I say "source", I mean the WebGL code, generated by ngen.php, which in turn calls a compiled executable that creates an engine for you. There's a beast of an algo in there (actually multiple, and then there's the Ink Optimizer, The Area Extractor and the AngleMatcher), each works of art in their own right. They run in the background, they hide their complexity to the point where the user has to do nothing, nothing at all, except drop an image in and grab their films.

It can be done. I'm doing it. It's really true. I can't believe that something that's actually right there in front of people is being disputed. Is it really that unbelievable? Is 3 years of hard work really supposed to yield nothing? Or could it be that hard work produces results?

Who knows. All I know is that I'd sep with my own thing. That's why I made it anyway. I'm just sharing.

[DDSol]

So how would a drag and drop separation program that breaks an image into set component colors

Wouldn't you like to know? But I'm not revealing my secret. It took 3 years of digging for me to get to it. Suffice to say I have the answer to that question.

, each spanning the entire image at various percentages replace color separators?

Not sure what the question is, and it doesn't replace image separators. It's just that image separators will use my program and make more money, do more work in less time and sell it as if it's hand-separated. And people will gladly pay them $100+ just for the peace of mind. People are scared to do this stuff you know... to take responsibility. They'd rather outsource.

It won't, by the very nature of what it's doing...probably ever.

It kinda already is doing that... and it's not even done yet...

It's not like others haven't considered this approach already and came to the obvious conclusion.

Actually, I have read scholarly articles (from people with high mathability) that come close to what I'm doing here. But sorry, no beans. Yes, it is exactly that others haven't considered this approach. Btw, do you know what approach it even is? And I can tell you that the conclusion, the solution, it's rather obvious, yes. To the math-trained eye. After careful reflection and inspection. It took me a year to come up with the formula and another 2 to make it actually work. It may be obvious, but no one, and I mean no one has done this before, or knows how it's done.

Nothing new, dramatic or exciting there but always fun to nerd out and think about this stuff.

Well, it's a computer program. Boring. I know. We've seen thousands of programs. Boring. Who cares. Nothing new. So, good luck with your 2 hours, 2 days, 2 forevers of separation time. I think I know what I like.

Seriously, it's not correct what you're saying. It's not a burden I carry that you're not aware of the truth. With the exception of that I think it's not right for someone to think a lie is the truth. I'd like to show the truth. But people don't like the truth. Truth is scary. I know. New things scare. Change scares. It always has, always does, and always will. But change can be good and change can be bad. No change is called stagnation. In any case, it's your choice. You might give it a shot, or you might kill it before it comes to life. It's up to you.

[Dottonedan]

First, It's a pleasure to read you.  LOL.  I can see by your humor that you're a fun guy and we all will get along. So lets just start all over again. I can see you're excited and rightfully so. We on the other hand are thinking, ok. Here comes another one. LOL.


Ravenmark and Zoo...and myself and many are simply gun shy. I truly believe you already. If it weren't for all of the others with the same old same old, (not that they were a bad product) for what they were/are), they were always lacking in the ability to read a pms color and spit out a pms color (solid) with no halftones.  Thats kinda what we're taking about.  I believe you right off the bat when you say (you can). I will believe you, until you prove yourself wrong. So, don't let that happen.   It's really exciting what you're talking about. Looks good already. I liked the preview. I uploaded one to check it out. Twaz an excellent representation of my own seps. I know, cuz I just got done separating that file and it was fresh in my head.


I'd be excited to buy one..or purchase films now.  We all would, I'm sure. If it does all that we are hearing/reading. Heck, for a drag n drop then seps mailed out to us, it would be a SURE THING. Bazillionair maybe. YOU COULD CORNER THE MARKET.


Of course tho, you can understand why we'd be skeptical right off the bat right. I mean, even you said "nothing like this has ever been seen before". and it al sounds amazing. So, often times, you don't believe what you haven't seen....especially...when it's been said before.

Anywho, Dan, you say "spot colors of tones". I don't know what that means, but I'll add it as soon as you let me know what that is. If it's not added already, that is. Because... uh, you can (well, not yet! Patience please) add any color you like. Pinks, Dark greens, Urobilins, Verdigris etc. are no problem.

  Well, what we are more so speaking of, is instead of using 2-4 colors of a standard list, blending together to make a yellow, pale, it would be ideal to have it be able to make a spot color (a solid area) that IS pale yellow (that we then designate as pms 148 (rather than using small percentages of 2-4 different colors of various %'s of halftone to make that look of pms 148. What they others do now, is that they mix up 2-4 or 5 different colors....to get one. THAT is similar to trying to use CMYK to get pms 148. Now, I'm not saying' that it needs to MATCH pms 148, but at least be able to provide a isolated area that WE can assign our inks to once printed to films. We would make the match on press using an actual pms 148. All that is sort of an example.  I don't know the limitations of what you are able to do. Like you said, I'd probably never be abel t understand...and I'm not offended by that at all.


and I would not take ANYTHING said prior to this reply as being cynical or sarcastic or doubting you personally. It's just all too much to handle man. It's a tough thing to accomplish and if you have, then you are for sure, my shifu. (Separation master).

It's not easy having to write things in multiple languages, you know, and for multiple OSs... It's work! But I'll have it not too long from now.

  QWe can only imagine.
Some of the members here can speak a little of your code language, but not me.

And ezscreen.com is totally not mine. Someone else is doing that. I don't even know what it's for... sorry.

  I tried to locate you're name on T-shirtforums and dig up some intel and came across that (as i thought was your screen image). EZ Screen.  I must have been looking at something else.  All I could see was you were from PA.  You should do a post in Introductions. That would be great.

Anyway, if you don't like something about it, let me know. I'm gonna fix it up to make you happy. The only thing I can't do is remove it because it threatens your job, your friend's job or because you don't like me.

   HAHA!.  That was funny to me..and familiar at the same time. LOL but I digress.

There's too many people that would be grateful to have it and I wouldn't want to disappoint them.

  and so you shall please many.

I'm here to supply solutions. If you think it stinks in some way (not talking to you Dan, just anybody) then Good for You. It's important you have an opinion or you'd be no better than a potato! And so you have one and that's a great start!

  Understood. No troubles here man. We're with ya...and lord knows we have an opinion. LOL.  Those who commented already, were giving their opinions based on past experiences. Thats all we really want to do in these discussions is give and receive opinions.

@raven, just so you know, this does SPOT SEPS and there are many others that do that. So Yeah, it's "just another". 

  But none that do what I described above) and thats what we're talking about needing. As mentioned, if you can do that, you're golden.

I'm just joining the ranks of the tired old "I can do better" clan. Those who can refrain from judgement and open their minds may just find that I'm just one of the few who's actually right.

  LOL. I love this guy!

This is not some script I threw at PS to sell it as a "separation engine". Instead, I built (in real programming languages that compile to machine code) a separation engine engine. Yes, an engine that makes separation engines. What you see in the browser, that thing that makes it, that was made just for your sep. It depends on your inks, which depend on your image. Your art has a (often times) unique, never before used engine that separates your art so it fits your inks, your screens, your methods and your shirt color.

  Ba-zing!  That sounds amazing!

This may be just another program that breaks colors up into red yellow blue etc, but it does that better than any program out there for one, and for two it will also break colors up into vermillion, auburn and dark, dark maroon. You can't see that because that big "+" with the ink splash doesn't do anything... yet. Note the 'yet'. Coming soon. Patience... .

  Can't wait!

Instead of telling me how it's boring and the same, tell me what you want.

Well, we will for sure now.  Who listens to us tho?  We never had someone come in and ask for our thoughts while they were developing something. They just come in and tell us what it does and say, (This is it!) the thing you've never seen anything like. So you can see, we're a bit gun shy.  You'd of thought that Adobe may have said hey, lets see what those printers are looking for out of a program. Nope.

Because I'm telling you, I can put it in there. That's not a joke or anything. I'll just put it in there and that'll be that. This thing is not a part of the ton of "I think I can".

very refreshing.  Now,  I can see a few coming in and replying to say, "I'll believe it when I see".  So don't get bent when you see that. It's bound to happen. It just human nature. Anytime you communicate with tons of people from all walks of life, you're gonna hear a comment that is different that you might expect. So, it's cool tho. Stay with us.

And I don't want to brag. But I put a boatload of work into this. 3 years and counting. (or is it 5? It'd have to check). In any case, at least 3 years. And that's a lot. And so if I put in the sweat then I may just get the props as well.

  Granted and bestowed upon you these things shall be if even a hint of what you say it indeed shown to be true. Currently, no offense, but all we have really, is a preview and a guy from out of the sky that says he is our separation saviour. We're looking for a good savior. So don't take that as a snide comment.

But I have to say that it irks me when @ravenmark says that it's same old same old, when by his own admission he hasn't even looked at it yet.

  Ahe, take no offense to what he says. He meant no ill will to you at all. it's like I said. you know, we've seen them all say the same thing and while they have been decent and VERY beneficial to many and worth the money they paid, they were not the holy grail.

I think forming opinions on things you know nothing of certainly has the effect that you can't benefit from knowledge, but only am hampered by an unfounded opinion.

  Awe,  we all do that every day. We form opinions of people simply walking down the street and we know nothing about them. We all do it. It happens.  We see tho, that you are a cool cat and are open to suggestions and feedback. Finally!  We embrace you as a brethren.

So anyway, weird that there's a (big) hint of hostility before I even register with the damn forum. Thanks for the warm welcome there raven...[/ quote] Well,  this is a bit off topic, but yea.  We also have an upswing of Separation updates and new methods getting promoted lately, so, it's not hostility,

It even chooses inks for you. You don't have to do that. It's not perfect in picking the inks, mind you (work in progress), but it is extremely close to perfect in using those inks and you can change the inks (when it's done, again, this is a test). It will turn the King into the Emperor. DTG will be like not a good idea unless it's for 3 shirts. Even then... it looks better as Spot!

It all sounds "spot on".   good deal. Keep pugg'n away and please feel free to keep us updated.  I'm sure plenty of people here will be glad to provide suggestions and feedback.
We just have to make sure we all stay focused and not let things go in the directions as some recent post have when getting passionate about a subject.  Stay the course!

[DDSol]

Right on! (is that still used?  )

[AdvancedArtist]

ROFLOL Pass me a wacom this color nightmare is almost over and I can draw and design anything I want too.