Waterbase Metallics, Shimmers, Pearlescents

[ZooCity]

I ran a job this week (last week?) where the client wanted a little shine to the yellow but not as much as a plastisol shimmer nor did they want a thick plastisol imprint.  I mixed up a DC pearlescent with CCI D-Base, CCI yellow pigment + a tiny drop of red and pearlescent powder (no idea abt the spec on the pearl, we get it form TW ink).  Came out very nice and the D-Base did an alright job of binding the pearl.

We had to run it through a 90/71 !  It was clogging up a 150 after a couple strokes.  I don't see this happen when adding the same pearl powder to plastisol so I guess it's something with WB and this pearly stuff.

Anyways...I konw Mastui has a 301 Metallic and even a Pearl binder.  I've read good things on the metallic, the pearl seems to be an import item that's hard to get.  Has anyone activated the 301 Metallic Binder?  I have a bronzy gold project coming up that's just screaming for this.

What's the highest mesh you can successfully print the 301 metallic through?  I'd like to get up to at least a 135/48 if possible. I understand it may be the same rules that apply as a plasti shimmer/metallic.

[brandon]

Hey Chris,
Once you try the WB Metallic Binder you will not go back to Plastisol. Unless the client requests it of course. Prints like butter, and on low mesh you only need one pass. You can print on a higher mesh such as a 156/64, but you might need to p/f/p. You can easily make any tint you want. Ill look in the office tomorrow to see what samples I have to post. And not sure how this works, but man it is just awesome bright and hardly any hand. Not sure how they did that!

[brandon]

Hey, just found an old pic on my phone. Don't remember the job details but it is a gray discharge pass then a WB bronze pass. One strokes, wet on wet. We always print the metallic last if possible. Not the best pic and you can't see the sparkle or feel the lack of hand but it is awesome! And so, so easy to print. People might notice we print a lot, a lot of metal shirts. Kind of have the market cornered in Seattle. Haha

[ZooCity]

That's what I'm talking about. Nice detail on the metallic!

Going to try activating the binder itself first and then over print or pfp if that don't work.

[Spreading Ink]

Hey Zoo - I will add to this as well as we use the Metallic from Matsui and all that Brandon told you I will ditto.  As far as adding discharge agent to this though - don't it won't work the metallic basically turns to water!  You can print it directly on darks and it holds up pretty well - if you want it even brighter just put a discharge underbase  under it.

Hope this helps.

[ZooCity]

Hey Zoo - I will add to this as well as we use the Metallic from Matsui and all that Brandon told you I will ditto.  As far as adding discharge agent to this though - don't it won't work the metallic basically turns to water!  You can print it directly on darks and it holds up pretty well - if you want it even brighter just put a discharge underbase  under it.

Hope this helps.

Really good to know!  I have 600+ pc run coming up for a gold metallic WB and have a gallon of the Matsui in for it.   I might still try to activate it because I'm a curious cat but hopefully we can get opacity without.  If not I guess we'll DC UB it and lesson learned.

What are you guys seeing for highest mesh you can run with the Matsui Metallic Binder? 

[tonypep]

We're comfortable with 140 mesh. Mettalics aren' Gravity but we might start showing it off for CSDS lline

[ZooCity]

Hey Zoo - I will add to this as well as we use the Metallic from Matsui and all that Brandon told you I will ditto.  As far as adding discharge agent to this though - don't it won't work the metallic basically turns to water!  You can print it directly on darks and it holds up pretty well - if you want it even brighter just put a discharge underbase  under it.

Hope this helps.

You weren't kidding man.  It doesn't just turn to water, it turns to a dry sludge and then, if you add back water separates and blows all the pigment color out. It's super gnarly.

Riding the struggle bus on this one.  Sampled through a 135/48 (was hoping for 150 but no way) and it's dull after 2x strokes.  Looks a little better on some other garments but not coming even close on the fuzzier Tultex 0202.  Bumping down to 110/71 and hoping we don't need to go 90/71. 

The mix is straight 301 tinted to the max with CCI pigs, 5% d base added and then 10% water, so there's lots of color and it should pass as easy as possible without the flakes clogging up.

Any advice?  I'm treating this like a mix between wb and plasti shimmers, so low eom (as opposed to high eom for plasti), driving with a 60/90/60 and slightly harder flood than usual.  Coverage sucks at 2x and gets a little better at 4x but I am not into four stroking a 600 pc order.  Going to try the lower counts and then go to a DC ub tinted to the same color as the 301 with 301 on top through the lowest we got.  Yeargh.

[ZooCity]

So this ink has been one of the biggest time wasters I've had in the shop in awhile.  It won't cover through a 110/71 either 2, 4 strokes or 2strokes PFP, not even close.  Tried a DC ub next and that was working until the contact with the wet UB and Matsui 301 binder clogged the 301 screen.  Now I guess I'll try flashing the DC ub so there's no cross contamination. If that doesn't work we'll have to go over to plastisol.

Maybe I got a bad batch or something, b/c this stuff sucks big time imho, would have been better off tossing some flake into CCI D-base or just running plastisol.

[ZooCity]

Wow, this stuff just clogged a 90/71.  WTF.  I think something has to be wrong with the ink, I've never seen any metallic or shimmer clog a 90/71 in 6 prints.  I always expect a little clogging but not like this.  It's unprintable.  The only lower mesh from here goes to our glitter screen.

[Spreading Ink]

Sorry you had so many issues - we have not experienced the same although we do usually print it on an 85 mesh - can do 110 but usually requires a couple of passes at 110.

[ZooCity]

so here's what I think happened. the first gallon we had was either off or the additional 5 percent dBase didn't get along with it. the next gallon overnighted in was from the same lot number and was not an issue.

we used either 90/71 or 110/71 ( the job had nine different imprint on the front) double stroke, revolved and then double stroke again. no flash just the drying time on the revolution was enough to get it done.

Matsui was helpful and sent out some additives that I will try next time we do this.  the hand was a little disappointing not a whole lot better than the plastisol but certainly a little softer

all in all I think I would prefer to have a CCI base that was designed for this that I can add metallic flake to. I've made a very nice pearlescent out of the d base that bound very well after 21 washes and discharged beautifully. set up like that would have been perfect for this job but we need a base with a little more grip or viscosity to hold a larger flake I think. the dBase did shed some of the pearl after the first washings.

real bummer with the Matsui is that I couldn't put it over discharge under base, the ink goes crazy and clogs up from contacting the activated ub.

In any case I'm glad that's over!