The honeymoon is over: Sad day with our Aquasol HV

[ScreenPrinter123]

So, had 3,900 pieces to do today.  (In order) red dc then d-white (all cci).  2/1 coating (round edge) with Aquasol HV, post exposed on exposure unit after "emulsioning over" the target marks -- even initially exposed longer than normal given that it had no halftones.  Added CCI's strongest hardener (perm-x).  Exactly 3,000 impressions in, we're wiping down the white screen on the bottom and off flakes emulsion from one of the letters.  And, it's not as if we were vociferously wiping.  Thankfully we had another screen as a backup in case something like this would happen -- printed fine, but upon cleaning the 2nd screen/breaking it down and wiping it down with water, the 2nd white screen (now only after 900 impressions) flaked off emulsion emulsion in one of the letters again!  Arrrghh.... Confused, especially considering we used what is supposed to be almost a permanent hardener.  The red screen was fine all the way through with no breakdown -- I can possibly understand if the white screen was breaking down where the red was touching it on the bottom (since it would be having the ink from bottom and top "attacking" the emulsion), but this was not the case.  Perhaps for larger orders like this, diazo it may have to be.  Do I recall someone touting one of CCI's diazo emulsions (not the WR25 or WR14), but another?  What's the difference between that one and the WR25/14?

Front side tomorrow -- we'll see how they hold up then.

[ericheartsu]

from my experience, it sounds like you have to much emulsion on the screen. i've always found thinner coats last longer when it comes to discharge...but switch to Xenon's nova emulsion and you'll have none of those problems. You won't need to use hardner at all. we just like 500 prints, with letting the screens harden in the sun for 25 mins, after they were blocked out, and had zero issues. these screens were coated 1/1 hard side too.

[dirkdiggler]

wr 25 and wr 14 are the same basically, but wr14 exposes twice as fast.  And the color is better.

[Nick Bane]

been using the wr-14 for discharge lately and having good luck with it, good stuff, nice $.

[JBLUE]

Why did you mix CCI hardener with Murikamis emulsion? I would not blame the emulsion just yet. Contrary to what most believe you cannot just mix and match brands and expect things to work as advertised. How old is the emulsion?

[ZooCity]

What Eric said. Delamination on wb screens is just excessive eom most times.  Go as thin add you can for wb.

[Evo]

I tried Aquasol and while it has it's merits it doesn't hold a candle to the CCI diazo stuff.

I used the 25 and the (3?) and it holds excellent detail and it's crazy durable. Trade off is longer exposure but it's balanced out when you don't have to re-burn anything.

[Dottonedan]

All of this is very interesting. First thought (from my own dabeling with plastisol inks and mesh at various previous shops) is that that emulsion coatcan end up not being (enough) coats for many inks in my opinion.  Especially with type and solid art. Conversely, as we know, WB and discharge inks are much thinner.


1st, the need for a high wall of emulsion (thicker coat) or a 2/1 makes sense to not apply for waterbase, since it's so thin and intense at a thin layer.


2ndly, due to the fact that you did have 2/1, left the higher stencil wall...and thus may have left the waterbase inks to have constant contact (maybe even hanging in the screen with each print) on the inner sides of the walls...where it may be at it's weakest strength...


That sounds not all that feasible due to the hardener and over exposure. It is more possible tho and seems to fall in line with what the other guys are saying.




Average orders for many people may never see this issue. Keep in mind, (from my previous shop exp) 5000 shirt orders can have screens break down...with reg plastisol. We used to burn another set of screens for all colors as a precautionary (band aid) for this vary reason when running large orders over 5000. Thats when we didn't have our screen room pinned down for efficiency.



Final note, It all seems par for the course between DIscharge and Plastisol. Sepping, print order and print procesees/procedures are for the most part, a different beast when compared to plastisol.


Interesting thread.

[alan802]

Our DC underbase with plastisol on top job this morning broke down after 30 prints.  Aquasol HVP with hardener.  Jantex Sweet base with 5% activator.  I've done 4 jobs with CCI d-white and Rutland DC white with no screen breakdown, HVP.  Did 60 shirts yesterday with the same specs as this morning, same coat session and same mesh count with no issues that we could see but now this morning I'm back to square one with discharge emulsion.  It is 99% humidity outside but it was humid yesterday and we didn't have issues. 

Does anyone develop (spray out) the regi marks then tape over them with their DC screens?  I've done it both ways, no regi marks/blocked out and post exposed and then developed them then taped over.  The screens this morning had taped up regi marks but so did yesterday's.

[ericheartsu]

Our DC underbase with plastisol on top job this morning broke down after 30 prints.  Aquasol HVP with hardener.  Jantex Sweet base with 5% activator.  I've done 4 jobs with CCI d-white and Rutland DC white with no screen breakdown, HVP.  Did 60 shirts yesterday with the same specs as this morning, same coat session and same mesh count with no issues that we could see but now this morning I'm back to square one with discharge emulsion.  It is 99% humidity outside but it was humid yesterday and we didn't have issues. 

Does anyone develop (spray out) the regi marks then tape over them with their DC screens?  I've done it both ways, no regi marks/blocked out and post exposed and then developed them then taped over.  The screens this morning had taped up regi marks but so did yesterday's.

for ever dc/wb job on the auto we block out, let sit in the sun, and tape up the reg. marks just to be safe. we just use clear scotch tape

[ZooCity]

We blockout with emulsion over any reg areas (marks don't resolve typically unless it's on the 330s), squeegee pressure zone (old Gauntlet), squeegee path on the edges and any pin holes/fish eyes of course.  Post expo.  Harden on the 300+ stuff or anything needing multiple color changes.  Screens on the Gauntlet get top tape and sometimes even bottom at the squeegee pressure zone.  We don't top tape anywhere other than the sq zone or if there's a gang image. 

We use the rubber based tape from J&J, smoothed out very well, when top taping.  Nothing else seems to hold up to wb and still pull off after.

This is weird that two of you all had this.  Maybe the stencil absorbed some of that humidity before it was shot or put on press?

[IntegrityShirts]

Our DC underbase with plastisol on top job this morning broke down after 30 prints.  Aquasol HVP with hardener.  Jantex Sweet base with 5% activator.  I've done 4 jobs with CCI d-white and Rutland DC white with no screen breakdown, HVP.  Did 60 shirts yesterday with the same specs as this morning, same coat session and same mesh count with no issues that we could see but now this morning I'm back to square one with discharge emulsion.  It is 99% humidity outside but it was humid yesterday and we didn't have issues. 

Does anyone develop (spray out) the regi marks then tape over them with their DC screens?  I've done it both ways, no regi marks/blocked out and post exposed and then developed them then taped over.  The screens this morning had taped up regi marks but so did yesterday's.

That's weird.  I'd say there's something iffy with the exposure or dryness of the screen before the hardener application.  That's the only time I'd have problems is when one of the two weren't dry enough.  I always blow out my regi marks and tape over them from the shirt side on press because I like to print marks on top of each other in addition to looking at the print.  You harden both sides?

[Parker 1]

When and how are you applying hardener?

Reason ask, we started applying hardner (HardenerX by CCI) after washing the image out while the screen is still damp. 

[Homer]

When and how are you applying hardener?

Reason ask, we started applying hardner (HardenerX by CCI) after washing the image out while the screen is still damp.

agreed. we picked this up from those videos Pwalsh posted a while back. We switched from HVP to CCI TX-dishcarge and haven't looked back. I also agree that it helps to keep all products the same family/brand. we use everything CCI and a lot of the weird things stopped happening.

http://www.ccidom.com/products.php?product=TX%252dDISCHARGE-WATER-RESIST-EMULSION

[ebscreen]

Maybe a dumb question, but did you apply the hardener to both sides of the screens?

Also, applied after drying/post expose, and left the hardener to dry as long as possible?


We tape on top of screens we use reg marks on that we can't get out of the squeegee path.
Done right presents no issues.