Is black a color?

[Dottonedan]

It's interesting how differently people see things. I've seen people advertise a printed tee price with black included in the cost. THey market it as if black is not a color so it's included in the cost.


I guess if you were not using at least black, then you wouldn't be printing at all. ??  So some people do think that black is just a given.  It's true. I asked about it. Thats what they feel.  It's all interesting.


It's like some people charge for their learning curves.  I once sent out a separation job (sep was completed) I just needed film printed for my customer. This very well known sep house wanted to charge me (another) 35.00 per color...because she didn't know how to print out channels straight from photoshop.


ME: Really?  Ok,  So you haven't done that yet. Let me walk you through it.
HER: Oh.  Well,  I still need to charge extra for this.
ME: Really?  you wanna charge me "extra" for me to show you something different?


Sheeesh.  Never called that person again.


This is just some thoughts of stuff that bugs me I guess.

[Frog]

My prices include one color one side, ( but not limited to black).

[ScreenFoo]

It's not a color, you both know black is a neutral.   

Considering the prices of quality colors in ink, it may be a rather savvy marketing technique--make us pay more for that super bright green, get an upcharge.

[mooseman]

a lady customer about 3 years ago , actually she was never an actual customer because she insisted that black and white were not true colors and we should not be charging for the application od non-colors in our pricing. I suggested to her if she could get my non-color black and white substance gallons sent to me for free because they are not real ink colors I might be inclined to agree with her.

She continued to insist that black and white were not colors and my prices should not include application of black and white non-color work.

At that point it was over with me I just wanted her OUT so I agreed with her that black and white were not real colors however it was necessary for us to charge her for the technology that allowed us to apply non - colors to tee shirts so they would be seen in the visible spectrum. She never gave us an aorder......she must have painted herself black or white because I never saw her again .

mooseman
 

[Chadwick]

 
That made my day Mooseman.
Cheers.

[GKitson]

It's interesting how differently people see things. I've seen people advertise a printed tee price with black included in the cost. THey market it as if black is not a color so it's included in the cost.

Another true life screen printing adventure, over the years I have had several well educated graphic art professionals from the offset/ad agency "we know everything" world question charges for white ink/screens printing on colored t-shirts.  Apparently white is not a color either! 

I guess that's what happens when your entire world involves starting out with perfect enamel coated white paper as your substrate.!

[Frog]

I've always enjoyed how common it is for folks to forget that the average desktop printer doesn't have white ink, but rather, depends on the paper to provide that.

[StuJohnston]

It's been a while since I took color theory, but IIRC, they aren't considered 'colors' in the same way that things that reflect specific wavelengths. Though I have no idea why that would lead someone to think that they don't require ink to print or that black and white ink are perfectly made without any sort of addition of color. IE blue in white or rich blacks.

[Denis Kolar]

a lady customer about 3 years ago , actually she was never an actual customer because she insisted that black and white were not true colors and we should not be charging for the application od non-colors in our pricing. I suggested to her if she could get my non-color black and white substance gallons sent to me for free because they are not real ink colors I might be inclined to agree with her.

She continued to insist that black and white were not colors and my prices should not include application of black and white non-color work.

At that point it was over with me I just wanted her OUT so I agreed with her that black and white were not real colors however it was necessary for us to charge her for the technology that allowed us to apply non - colors to tee shirts so they would be seen in the visible spectrum. She never gave us an aorder......she must have painted herself black or white because I never saw her again .

mooseman
 

Does that means that white shirts with black prints should be free?

[GaryG]

Isn't white the compilation of "all" of colors of the spectrum?

So she is getting way more than her monies worth
by only being charged for two, black and white!

[Shawn (EIP)]

I'm asked this every once in awhile. WTF do you mean is black a color? Idiots.

[ScreenFoo]

Not arguing you shouldn't charge for the application of ink, 'color' 'neutral' or whatever.
I don't know about you guys, but I charge for clear, is that a color?

But as to the term 'color' as it's normally applied, I think no hue=no color.  In the end it's all perception anyway though--a perfectly balanced grey will turn violet when it's against yellow, right?  All about your point of reference, I guess.

[Dottonedan]

-a perfectly balanced grey will turn violet when it's against yellow, right?  All about your point of reference, I guess.

Here's a good definition on that subject. The lower parts pertain more to what you're referring to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamerism_(color)


This explains black is the absence of color...but exist and is defined (as a color).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black#Optics


How ink Co's manufacturer blacks and various whites should be a whole different definition. We know they use other colors to create blacks and white aslo.  Wilflex for example has a white that can be found to have a slight blue cast to it.


Some printers create a generic black they use on various projects that look to be more of a "dirty black" This is from left over inks pre mixed that most likely will not be used again.  Large shops can mix up a 5 gallon bucket of this stuff over a few months and re-use it on jobs that might not require a true black.

[Frog]

If one believes this definition from the online Merriam Webster Dictionary, then black is considered a color by printer and toner manufacturers


Definition of MONOCHROME

: a painting, drawing, or photograph in a single hue
— mono·chro·mic  adjective
— mono·chrom·ist  noun
 
Origin of MONOCHROME

Medieval Latin monochroma, from Latin, feminine of monochromos of one color, from Greek monochrōmos, from mon- + -chrōmos -chrome
First Known Use: 1662

[59Graphix]

What I learned in art class was that black and white are neutrals which has already been stated. Doesn't matter what it looks like to me, if it goes through a screen onto a substrate, it's a print. Priced per screen.