I sasw this on another forum

[blue moon]

the only way it would get that cheap is if a ton more shops moved to it.  I don't see that happening, the market is still fairly small...so ink can sell for $1 per cc.  A gallon of inkjet ink runs about $2,800. 

The other problem is the faster the machine, the bigger the printhead...the bigger the head, the more money per head.  Brother heads are $1k each...I think Kornit heads are around that as well.

When you get into a large format head, they go up a ton...so you are looking at the cost of a nice fully loaded 16 color auto to get production speeds up...but you are still dealing with outrageous ink costs.

I heard Kornit heads were $5k each. The aeon printer was $300k last I heard about it . . . It was rated at 400 white shirts per hour and something like 200+ on the darks if I recall correctly.

pierre

[mk162]

That is outside most folks price range.  I wonder what the ink costs are.

Last time I looked at the kornit on darks, the prints were terrible.  Hopefully they improved.  I think it may have been operator error.

[blue moon]

That is outside most folks price range.  I wonder what the ink costs are.

Last time I looked at the kornit on darks, the prints were terrible.  Hopefully they improved.  I think it may have been operator error.

I've seen some spectacular prints from DTG. They were done when the units (kornit and later 741) were just released. From what I was told, they had to make adjustments to the amount of ink deposit and user interface (or whatever the other stuff they changed was) so the print quality went down. So yes, excellent prints can be had with them, but it would take some knowledge to get it there.

pierre

[244]

When DTG gets this fast, then it's time to worry:

Formula 1

Until then, carry on.

LOL! Nice video showing how to properly set up your Passport as well!

[Frog]

Like many, I've seen the whole range of print qualities. Not unlike a simple desktop ink jet printer, two different users could use different settings, and/or tweaks to achieve two very different results.

The shame in that part of the industry lies in the manufacturers and sellers pushing them as turn-key money makers. Some folks will just do better with them than others will, just as some folks lost their businesses when their Fast T-Jets gave them trouble, while others, with a little mechanical know-how are still using them today.
Of course, the other big problem with those who went under was their business model relying solely on the one machine.

Would any of you gamble your whole business and financial well-being on your Epson printer? It's a tool, and a necessary one at that, but should not be the whole foundation of your business.

[ScreenFoo]

The shame in that part of the industry lies in the manufacturers and sellers pushing them as turn-key money makers. Some folks will just do better with them than others will, just as some folks lost their businesses when their Fast T-Jets gave them trouble, while others, with a little mechanical know-how are still using them today.
Of course, the other big problem with those who went under was their business model relying solely on the one machine.

In a way, this is true.  At the same time there are many shops who rely solely on their one manual press, or for volume, their one automatic press.

The problem comes in, IMHO, when people believe that all they have to do is invest in the equipment, and you'll have little maintenance, and the equipment will last forever, and everything print-wise is easy--not like anyone ever pushes screen printing like that.   

Then again, maybe it's for the best--as they say, "you can't cheat an honest man"...

[screenxpress]

most have seen this, but here it is anyways:
Aeoon DTG Printer at FESPA (2)

this is at least two years old. . .

pierre

You know what I see here?  Two things.  1) A huge investment. 2) A product that is high tech and as such, prone to breakdowns and big headaches. 

At the end of the day, printing with plastisol or water base, even on an auto, is for the most part, a simple (at least basic) process.  Yes, I know there's that big learning curve and then times when things go wrong and you want to pull out your hair. 

But for someone planning on running a business printing reasonable decent quantities of substrates, not a low-quantity boutique, can you imagine your frustration when that really expensive DTG breaks down, you're waiting on the tech to arrive who used to service HP printers and you know you're going to be hammered with a repair bill the size of small city's budget? 

Bet you'll be standing there wishing you still had those screens and a few squeegees.

Just sayin.

[mk162]

There is only 1 piece of equipment that is more reliable than our Brother...and that is our Interchange Oven.

That being said, there isn't any white, and that is where a lot of problems come from.

[screenxpress]

I don't delve into the DTG world, but I'll bet your Brother is not near as complex as that Aeoon unit that I was really addressing. 

And I'll bet it was a whole lot easier to write the check for that Brother over that Aeoon where I found some references to 160,000-185,000 

But at the end of the day, IMHO, one of these high priced, high tech (Aeoon type) units, puts you with a lot of expensive eggs in one basket and your livelihood depending on a company in Austria. 

I'm sure that Brother is a much more reasonable and cost-effective compromise.

[tpitman]

You know what I see here?  Two things.  1) A huge investment. 2) A product that is high tech and as such, prone to breakdowns and big headaches.

Not even huge investments in technology, Wayne. Look at the panic that sets in when our PC/Mac/inkjet printer won't cooperate and there are jobs to run. Buggered-up files, conversion problems from Corel-to-Illy-to-SimpleShit Ultra Seps, and all of the glitches that someone like yourself can fix because of your background, but leaves the rest of us hapless "tech-twits" crying, swearing, or just standing slack-jawed in a puddle of piss surrounded by cases of unprinted shirts.

[GaryG]

I hedge to bet that a machine like that wouldn't break down too often.
It has Kyocera KJ4B printheads and are most likely very reliable. Not too many
moving parts otherwise. Plus the Austrians are a precise bunch that want to
keep a squeaky clean image.

Pretty amazing how much of a swath line it can print each pass.

I think there is where less expensive units can reach for to gain speed.
If the last figures are it, not that much more than top of the line Korint for the output.

Does anyone know how much of a swath/path/band a Kornit can lay down each swing?

 

[Inkworks]

A guy has to figure in pre-treatment and post print cure for digital printing to, it isn't print just print and go. (Yes I know Kornit has pretreatment built in)

Also, like 99.9% of bubblejets, they don't do well with intermittent use.