M&R Challenger I

[Prosperi-Tees]

Any one own and operate one of these oldie but goodies? Can you give me the ins and outs, the pros the cons etc etc. Real close to pulling the trigger on one.

[californiadreamin]

Any one own and operate one of these oldie but goodies? Can you give me the ins and outs, the pros the cons etc etc. Real close to pulling the trigger on one.

Are you good with tools, can you make simple adjustments, do you under "cause and effect".
If your answer is "yes" then, I would say consider a CH 1.
Early 90's and up are preferred. Would only consider 12c and under. Standard only. (Jumbo No)
Willing to "really understand" the screen print process vs. "not as much" screen print knowledge" relying
on more user friendly presses. Mosier index preferred, but not a deal killer. Flip up front screen holders, a must.
A larger air compressor is needed. Good for those who are on a budget, but need to be automated. Prints
good size prints, and can be "modified" to print "jumbo" if needed. Will print 50-60 dz per hour all day long.
I put the CH 1 in the same "icon" class as the Precision Oval. A lot of $$ has been made on both. Again, If
you are a "hands on" type of guy, then consider. If not pass! People, ask me all the time, if I had a hundred
grand to spend which equipment would I buy? I say for that money I would Buy Six CH 1's a few "Ovals",
and I would become "king" of low cost 10 color and under work, with good capacity. With paid off machines! But, I more than understand, these presses.
winston

[pwalsh]

People, ask me all the time, if I had a hundred grand to spend which equipment would I buy? I say for that money I would Buy Six CH 1's a few "Ovals",
and I would become "king" of low cost 10 color and under work, with good capacity. With paid off machines!

Winston:  This is a very insightful response, proving that not everything shiny and new is always the best choice, and it confirms that the best advice for any equipment buyer is to know thier market and production requirements.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Great input. My production requirements are really easy 1-3 color prints for the most part. Would like about 300 pieces an hour. I don't mind working on things, don't like it but don't mind it. The machine wouldn't get super heavy use. I have a budget of 10K and would really rather not have lease payments. Im a cash and carry kind of guy.

[californiadreamin]

People, ask me all the time, if I had a hundred grand to spend which equipment would I buy? I say for that money I would Buy Six CH 1's a few "Ovals",
and I would become "king" of low cost 10 color and under work, with good capacity. With paid off machines!

Winston:  This is a very insightful response, proving that not everything shiny and new is always the best choice, and it confirms that the best advice for any equipment buyer is to know thier market and production requirements.

Peter!
From a printers perspective, I would hopefully turn some numbers, make a decent ROI, put money in my pocket, and live to print another day.

From a suppliers perspective, I wouldn't care which brand of machine, you are using, as long as your slinging
ink, supplies and hopefully have a stable business. (new or used doesn't matter)

On used machines, you had best know whom your dealing with, and do your homework!

From a manufacturers point of view., everything is good if you buy my brand. (whatever brand that may be).

I do believe that buying new, has its advantages, and for most is probably the way to go!

[pwalsh]

On used machines, you had best know whom your dealing with, and do your homework!

I do believe that buying new, has its advantages, and for most is probably the way to go!

Winston;  My advice (for what it's worth) to printers buying their first automatic screen-printing press is to seriously consider the value of the manufacturer’s warranty, initial training at installation and support provided by the local distributor in helping them optimize the performance of their first automatic press.  Of course, not everyone has the financial resources to “Buy-New” and as such they are looking in the used market, which is when things get much more complicated.  The area where I have the most issues with are those People/Companies that position themselves as “Equipment Brokers.” 

Unfortunately in many case these Equipment Brokers don’t add any value beyond looking to skim some cash off of a deal between two independent parties.  The road of screen-printing is littered with people who thought that they were buying from an experienced industry resource, only to later discover these companies were selling equipment sight unseen, without any responsibility to make sure the condition and performance of the equipment was equal to what they had represented.   Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against anyone purchasing used equipment at all, because there are some great deals to be had.

My advice to anyone buying used is similar to what you provided.  Are you hands on, and self-sufficient?  Let “The Buyer Beware” Anytime a screen-printer is buying equipment from an equipment broker or a re-seller, they need to determine the level value and support that these companies are providing.  As I stated earlier, there are some companies (& individuals) out there who are little more than “skimmers and scammers” but thankfully there are also some really dedicated folks/companies that purchase use equipment that they recondition, install, train, and then support the heck out of.  My advice would be to ask for references and to post on this and other Industry Forums confirming their validity.   

[blue moon]

with Peter here. Buy new or as good as new for the first press. You don't want to be asking yourself if the problem is in the press or what you are doing. It makes the learning significantly more difficult.

lease payment is not a bad thing. Put some money down and have a small payment. You can build your credit and get more press. Don't forget that you will have sever k worth of expenses for the auxiliary equipment and electric/air installation. We spent close to $8k on getting the press in.

pierre

[Lizard]

I would also recommend new or like new. With a new press your payment would be $1000 to $5000 per month depending on size, accessories, etc...  You will setup and run much quicker. You will easily print a few million prints with minimal repairs. Add all those time savings and faster production and you will easily cover the cost of your payment.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I would really like to have a brand new press but I refuse to carry debt. I worked very hard to become debt free and have been for the past 5 years. With that thinking I either buy used or don't buy at all and keep plugging away printing manually.

[ScreenFoo]

IMHO, If you can see it running, bring some screens in and run a job or two, it's a world away from buying a pile of press from a broker.

I think the only other thing I'd add--if you're going to buy used, get an independent tech to look at it.  Might seem like it hurts shelling out to get someone to look at it, but you're better off out a grand than ten...

[royster13]

I would really like to have a brand new press but I refuse to carry debt. I worked very hard to become debt free and have been for the past 5 years. With that thinking I either buy used or don't buy at all and keep plugging away printing manually.

Debt is at times a way to make more money....When you incur the right debt and the right piece of automatic equipment , you make more money and/or have more free time.....

[beanie357]

Unfortunately, some equipment choices have various tax implications to consider. If your tax planning for say 179 accelerated depreciation shields a certain amount of income, new may be the best answer.

Only you and your CPA can calculate the effects.

Bizarre, but true.

[whitewater]

I bought new this last year..holy crap did it help with my taxes!

[Lizard]

I would really like to have a brand new press but I refuse to carry debt. I worked very hard to become debt free and have been for the past 5 years. With that thinking I either buy used or don't buy at all and keep plugging away printing manually.

Debt is at times a way to make more money....When you incur the right debt and the right piece of automatic equipment , you make more money and/or have more free time.....

Can't agree more. A new car or bigger home is debt. It is just a luxury. But I look at a payment on a piece of revenue producing equipment the same way I look at marketing or employee payroll. It's the cost of business.

Now only you can decide if it is a necessary piece of equipment or a luxury.

[californiadreamin]

My hat is off to the original poster for Having A Plan!
He has a budget(smart), and does not want to get into debt ( I appreciate that too).
So the question is do I automate or not. Do I wait?
Only he knows, his goals, commitments, resources, dreams etc.
His question is the CH1 good or bad?
What are his abilities, talents? (he knows)
Do we all make perfect steps in our business? No, but we hope that if we don't make
The wisest choice, we can hopefully learn, hope that there is not much damage, and go on
With growing and keeping our business!
But again "kudos" for having a plan! Just that fact shows me that you have a better chance than most!
We all have to start from somewhere.
winston