Difference Between Pantone 226U and 226C

[Fresh Baked Printing]

Anybody have a physical Pantone card of 226U and 226C? Is the actual difference in color THAT noticeable? Unions mix is slightly different for each.

[Denis Kolar]

There should not be any difference. The U is formulated for Uncoated stock and C is formulated for Coated stock. The color should be the same. Cards are a bit off, but that is because of the paper stock and coating. On screen, they are indetical

[Frog]

The difference is always a bit of an illusion, as the "c", of course, stands for coated(stock).  It's shiny and reflects light. To me, it often appears a little darker, and a lot "richer"
I have always found it a little crazy that the coated examples are what our mixing systems purport to match.
Myself, I have often shown the two swatches and explained to the client that my mix would probably be somewhere in-between, as shirts, of course, are not coated.

[mk162]

Frog, it has nothing to do with shiny vs. non shiny, it's how the ink is absorbed.  After dating a girl whose dad ran an offset company, I understood it a lot more.  Certain colors will change more on uncoated stock due to how the ink is absorbed and how it dries.  Take a look at PMS 123 C&U, HUGE difference.  It matters nothing that shirts are "uncoated".

Screen printing ink doesn't change color depending on what it is printed on, otherwise white underbases would throw off every color in the book.

Take for example inkjet ink.  Print on plain paper, and then print on photo inkjet paper.  the difference is night and day.

Bottom line, the colors are different, I always match to C unless the customer's color specifically states U.  The finish of a t-shirt matters NOTHING.

[Sbrem]

printing on uncoated stock makes the ink soak in, and get dull and lose it's saturation. We only match the "C" for customers. If they really need it, then we mix the "C" version, and add a little white or black, depending on what you're trying to get. Either way, the color is somewhat degraded. We keep an uncoated PMS book too, for reference...

Steve

[Frog]

Obviously the swatches in our books are the same (offset) ink formulas shown on the two different stocks with their resulting differences.
I still contend that for the most part, our ink mixes do not look exactly like the coated examples.
I also have never seen a plastisol system that lists formulas for the uncoated versions.

It's a compromise, and screen printers are best advised to warn clients that some of these colors are more of a compromise than others.

[Clark]

Wilflex MX has formulas for C and U of each color.  There IS a difference.

[tonypep]

Correct. The U colors absorb the C reflect and there can be a dramtic difference in some instances not so much in others. If you have an ink company match a PMS color for you you better believe they will want you to specify U or C. The substrate; whether it be paper stock (coated or uncoated) or fabric (underbased or not) play a significant role in how an ink will appear to the naked eye. When you printed for Nike, for instance, each season they would submit their color pallete which the screen printer had to match a. direct on white fabric and b. on dark fabric that is underbased. You can bet the formulas were different. The bases and pigment ratios change. Now that said I think most of us use the C range as a typical customer doesn't care about all this but if we want to stay technically accurate.....well.
Speaking of color I recently had to explain to a customer what metamerism is. A shiny nickel goes to the first correct response!

[Sbrem]

Had to look it up, pretty deep reading, but it's starting to look like something I already know, but don't have a name for. Thanks Tony, and no nickel, I cheated 


Steve

[Frog]

I will still warn my clients that exact matches may not be possible, and when it is critical, I have them sign off on them.

And as Tony said, most jobs and clients aren't super critical, hence my explanation to them of a resulting mix somewhere in-between, and this is partly due to the non-reflective nature of our inks on our substrate.

I suppose that if someone specified a "u" color, (haven't had one yet) I would fake it and kick in a little white or gray or something as my Union system does not list uncoated versions (at least last I looked)

[BorisB]

Different color when you change light spectrum? Artificial to Natural or neon bulbs to normal bulbs

[tonypep]

Thats the short answer yes. The term "Metameric Failure" applies when two colors match when viewed under one light source and not another. It's sometimes reffered to when a given color appears different when surrounded by two different colors. Probably not technically correct but close enough I suppose. I don't have two nickles to rub together so Bauman you're out of luck but wait.....tomorrows Payday! JK of course but your'e still not getting your nickle
BTW I hate Smileys
tp

[Fresh Baked Printing]

My customer specified a 226U. On a white shirt. Would I want to use the U version just because a shirt is uncoated? A C version on an underbased shirt?
What if the customer specified a C, wouldn't that throw the color off on a "uncoated" white shirt?
I wish I had a U and C swatch card to see the actual diffidence. I have the C swatch cards.

I'm thinking about implementing a new policy that says "Customers can pick any ink color they want as long as it's black".   

[Clark]

I suppose that if someone specified a "u" color, (haven't had one yet) I would fake it and kick in a little white or gray or something as my Union system does not list uncoated versions (at least last I looked)

Wilflex MX is much more robust than it's union counterpart.  One of the many reasons I switched.  For instance..877C Silver is a primary color in one of the major energy suppliers in TX.  It is also a primary or secondary color in logos of two very major organizations in Dallas.  When I called Union to get a match, they said NO.  Wilflex.  Sure no prob, here is the formula.  Threw the union book in the trash right after that.

[tonypep]

Fbaked not to get get all high and mighty but black isn't technically a color. Neither is white for that matter.
But we all know what you mean!