Somebody talk to me about the Newman frames please.

[inkbrigade]

I have 23x31 MZX. They can't be stretched over 30N because they deflect too much on the long side. stretching over 30 will put allot of stress on the joints where the hex or octagon shape meets the tube. Later on the joints would just break.
since your frames are longer than 31. max tension must be reduced for the MZX.

you can learn to stretch bulk with a 62/cm to a 90/cm normal diameter. but a 120/cm is quite frustrating  because the alignment clip can leave micro fracture that can't be see if you don't look for it.
for a 14/cm mesh. I find it difficult to put the locking strip in due to the thick thread.

we use tape because we are not too careful with our frames.

Yea, we have 23X33 M3s and can do 60N no problem... Although we don't run at that tension. Usually about 45N.

[blue moon]

Pierre,

What are looking for the Newman's to provide that the Shurloc frames are not giving you? I run both styles of frames on my MHM S machine.

Robert

two things. . .
first, being able to have all the frames at the same tension. In order to make the press output more uniform/predictable all the frames should be at exactly the same tension. Right now, we are breaking the EZ frame mesh and when we replace it, tension is higher on the new ones than on the old frames. This causes the ink deposits to vary between the frames. I am hoping that the ability to retention will give us more consistency.
second, and this might be false math, but I think that buying bulk mesh will be cheaper than buying panels.

pierre

[Socalfmf]

P-

I really don't feel like writing a novel....give me a shout and I will run it down from start to finish...there is a lot more to it than just having frames.

sam

[Printficient]

second, and this might be false math, but I think that buying bulk mesh will be cheaper than buying panels.

pierre
[/quote]
Bulk mesh is less expensive.  1 yard of 305 mesh for instance is $16.95.  That yard makes 2 frames.  Cost per frame? $8.48.  Give me a call later.

[Binkspot]

1. Megan is shipping the adapters out today. They are all for Mzx frames not sure if they even make them for M3
2. Must use protection tape, like said earlier its for off the press. I degrease the screens before applying it seems to stick better. Gorila tape works fine but leaves an adhesive residue that needs to be cleaned off before stretching again but no big deal.
3. Like Sonny said bulk is two for one panel but there is the learning curve to stretch them plus the added expense of the labor in additional time needed to put the mesh in and soften the corners, etc. As you get better I feel that time is negligible.
4. I stretch everything across the board to 35n. This will cover just about every mesh count, size and style. Keeps them all the same and stops the confusion of this mesh get this that mesh gets that.

Just my .04c (adjusted for inflation)

[Rockers]

Pierre,

What are looking for the Newman's to provide that the Shurloc frames are not giving you? I run both styles of frames on my MHM S machine.

Robert

two things. . .
first, being able to have all the frames at the same tension. In order to make the press output more uniform/predictable all the frames should be at exactly the same tension. Right now, we are breaking the EZ frame mesh and when we replace it, tension is higher on the new ones than on the old frames. This causes the ink deposits to vary between the frames. I am hoping that the ability to retention will give us more consistency.
second, and this might be false math, but I think that buying bulk mesh will be cheaper than buying panels.

pierre

Depending on how much mesh you need we can ship Murakami Smartmesh at a much lower rate then what you would pay for in the States. Shipping takes around 5 days and would not cost much. PM me if you are interested. Just sent some mesh to another board member yesterday.

[T Shirt Farmer]

I am not concerned with the cost aspect very much regarding frames and mesh. I have roller frames that are at least 10 years old and have been cycled tens of thousands of times. All my frames have mesh panels and they get cycled thru at a minimum of a hundred if not hundreds of times before needing to be replaced. When you amortize the up front cost over the life span the per cycle cost is next to nothing. So if panels make life a bit easier it is well worth it in the long run and few can argue how much easier it is to train a person to install panels vs bulk mesh.

Pierre you will be spending a considerable amount of time to keep a bulk amount of rollers at the same tension if you are wanting  + / -  a couple of newtons,  you will also need a roller table which are pretty expensive. Not saying the effort is not time well spent if your prints dictate the need. You will also have a much shorter free area of usable image area with rollers. We can usually put 2 images on one shulock frame but rarely get away with it on the 23x31 rollers.

just my thoughts

[ericheartsu]

we def. saw our prints become cleaner, and better, while using less ink when we switched to using m3s. I do agree that buying used frames can be sort of a pain, especially if the channels are clogged or nicked up. We got a killer deal on some used frames, but some are in ROUGH shape, but that was over 2 years ago, and we've cleaned almost all of them.


 We started out with Bolt mesh, but now i'd rather use panel mesh, as it's usually faster to set up, and more or less dummy proof for employees when stretching screens. Also not needing an area to layout, prep, and cut bolt mesh is really nice at the moment as our shop is pretty full  Also, it's pretty nice not needing the locking strips, for me anyway

[blue moon]

I am not concerned with the cost aspect very much regarding frames and mesh. I have roller frames that are at least 10 years old and have been cycled tens of thousands of times. All my frames have mesh panels and they get cycled thru at a minimum of a hundred if not hundreds of times before needing to be replaced. When you amortize the up front cost over the life span the per cycle cost is next to nothing. So if panels make life a bit easier it is well worth it in the long run and few can argue how much easier it is to train a person to install panels vs bulk mesh.

Pierre you will be spending a considerable amount of time to keep a bulk amount of rollers at the same tension if you are wanting  + / -  a couple of newtons,  you will also need a roller table which are pretty expensive. Not saying the effort is not time well spent if your prints dictate the need. You will also have a much shorter free area of usable image area with rollers. We can usually put 2 images on one shulock frame but rarely get away with it on the 23x31 rollers.

just my thoughts

this got me thinking. . .
we are going through our EZ frame panels like crazy. We busted $1000 worth of panels in 45 days when new ppl started. Needles to say, I was not a happy camper! So once we get to the point of running the panels for hundresds of prints, it might be worth going that route. Right now, the idea I got from your post is, I can have a batch that is full tension always within few N adn we use those when we need the high level of control. The rest I can stretch at 20N and get ppl used to them Then with time we start bringing the tension up.

I should say that we were doing OK with EZ frames for a while until we got two new ppl and shuffled the press operators around. It will take a bit to get everybody up to speed.

pierre

[tonypep]

We have a grinding system and stretch and glue operation upstairs. Inherited bolts and bolts of free mesh. Thousands of frames, so this works for us plus we're water based so tension is less critical. Still we have Newman tables and tools and a couple hundred frames in different sizes. Our presses have the old post system not the bars so the press ops hate the newmans. We have about forty one color images on square backs libraried.
Which comes to mind.......I know many here on this board work harden their frames but I can assure you most don't.
So whats the point?

[sweetts]

I use the panels much faster


RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com

[Sparkie]

Pierre, I've got five 25 x 33 M3's laying around collecting dust. No mesh, but they are yours to take for a test drive. If you decide you like them, we'll talk $$, otherwise just kick 'em back to me.

[brandon]

We are 25" x 36" rollers and we hit the jackpot right off the bat. About 110 used frames from a massive shop that closed it's doors. They printed John Deere, huge clients like that.

$10 each.

We should have bought another 100 as we could use them now. To be honest though half were in great shape and half needed some serious TLC. But after spending anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes cleaning a frame well you get a lifetime of printing. Worth it. I see rollers for sale here and there every few weeks. I know we are on the lookout for the size we use. But serious, give used ones a try! They work and can save you some serious cash. And you can still buy new ones as well.

[ScreenFoo]

+1 that, last time I got a number of frames I nabbed 30 MZX frames for 300, count the nicks on the channels on one hand.  But as mentioned, you may want to buy them for 20 or 30 cleaned up if you go used, and have a VERY critical eye on the edges of the lock strip channels.

I'm with Binkspot on tensioning--pretty much everything here but 305's and a few base 230's get retensioned when they get close to 30 back up to 35, saves a lot of headaches, and registration stays easy.

To recap my take on the age old debate I learned bolt mesh first, even with a dozen or two crappy screens and a few days labor spent learning, I would think as long as you're going to stretch more than a hundred screens a year it would be worth dipping your toe in the water.

To figure panels @20 bucks a pop, the four bolts I've got lying around cost just over a grand, but would cost somewhere around five grand as panels...

[Admiral]

As for the bolt vs panels we do both.  Bolt mesh in slower times, panels during busy times.  IMO go with M3s only.  With S thread mesh I decided it didn't matter which frame we went with but the M3s stay flatter better, don't deflect at all, and have higher sides to keep ink in a bit better. 

second, and this might be false math, but I think that buying bulk mesh will be cheaper than buying panels.

pierre

Bulk mesh is less expensive.  1 yard of 305 mesh for instance is $16.95.  That yard makes 2 frames.  Cost per frame? $8.48.  Give me a call later.
[/quote]

3 yards = 7 screens (I hope people aren't wasting that much bolt mesh...)
so $7.27 per screen for 305 mesh