Author Topic: Ganging designs on screens  (Read 7709 times)

Offline mk162

  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 7866
Re: Ganging designs on screens
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2011, 12:25:18 PM »
I gang like colors mainly, it saves a lot of time.  If I had to wash out screens to change the color, it wouldn't save much time. 


Offline DouglasGrigar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
  • Can you test, repeat, and measure it? fact or not?
Re: Ganging designs on screens
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2011, 01:24:58 PM »
We gang everything we can.  We don't have any issues with doing so, and every time we gang a design we save one screen.  That one screen doesn't have to be reclaimed, coated, exposed, taped, etc. and over the course of a year, we might save thousands of screens by ganging.  I understand why some shops don't, cause it really doesn't take long to just slap another screen on the press rather than flip the screen or do a color change, but I think of it by looking at the entire process that you don't have to do by saving a screen.  I'd like to know how long each shop spends on one screen to go through the entire production process? 

A minute to coat
3 minutes to expose & washout
A few minutes to dry
1-2 minutes to tape up
5 minutes to reclaim

I figure that for each screen put into production, it takes 15-20 minutes of labor, no telling how little or how much chemicals go into that screen, maybe several dollars worth overall.  I would rather save that 15-20 minutes by ganging screens since for whatever reason, we don't have to deal with any issues that arise from ganging some jobs.  It takes only a few minutes to do a color change or to flip the screen and tape up the old image, so to me, it saves us more time by saving a screen from the production process.

I guess it would depend on where that time is coming from.  If you're doing a color change and the press is waiting, I don't think you're saving any money.  If you gang and all the color changing and retaping, etc is done off press with another job being run during that time perhaps you are saving money.  We used to gang everything, but don't do it anymore.  I personally would rather just throw another screen on and get to printing.  I do the same thing for color changes as well.

I'd guess I have around 12 minutes into each screen.

This comes down the the answer no screen printer wants to see - it depends.

I hate that answer myself but it is far too often true some things that are great savers for a small shop would make a larger shop go broke in short order.

This also brings up what I refer to as active and passive tasks active tasks cost labor dollars passive tasks on the other hand only cost labor dollars in the movement in and out and of course whatever the energy, water, or supplies cost.

This idea of targeting each task and review the effects of your methods in relation to the total process is important and you will find that each person is different at the same task. I am slow and meticulous by nature, this works great for art production or fine tasks that take skill and planning, not so great for production, again targeting your needs will be necessary.

Part of our problem in the industry is the desire for cut-and-dried cookie-cutter answers for everything and it often does not exist, we have facts we work with, like photo emulsion exposure and chemical reactions, and then we have process implementation and that second part becomes contentious and problematic.

There is nothing inherently wrong with “ganging” screens, we use the same sets of products in a set way to produce the stencils, how that fits into each shop or even each printing team is now at question. To add to this problem is the fact that things change - inks, emulsion, individual workers, locations, equipment, and customer demands all change and to have intrenched inflexible procedures will only make things difficult.

Change, exploration, and pursuit of information has been my central theme for 11 years now, every shop could benefit from stepping back and analyzing the procedures set in place. If a time, supply, or step saving procedure cost more later in the process then the savings is nullified or even becomes a liability - you have to keep looking for this constantly and this changes as you grow and change.
When there are no standards, you must make them!

Offline shirtz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Ganging designs on screens
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2011, 07:01:00 PM »
We gang when we can, mostly a left chest print with the like color for the back. Generally we pin the full back (tri lock) and tape the left chest the old school way. I havent figured out how to tri-lock both.

Offline Chadwick

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 463
Re: Ganging designs on screens
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2011, 08:04:56 PM »
We ( I ) gang all the time, unless the next few jobs are 'up in the air' due to whatever.
Nice tip Andy, forgot to respond before.
I guess I've been doing the same thing, but not consciously.
Now I make a point of it.
Thanks.
 :)

Offline T Shirt1

  • !!!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: Ganging designs on screens
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2011, 07:27:26 AM »
We gang when we can, mostly a left chest print with the like color for the back. Generally we pin the full back (tri lock) and tape the left chest the old school way. I havent figured out how to tri-lock both.
We found a tube of ruby lith and have cut several pieces of different lengths.  We put the sep on a carrier and put the carrier on the pins.  Then we cover most of the rest of the area with a piece of ruby lith.  We burn one end then change the art, flip the screen around an we're ready to burn the other end.
steve

Offline tonypep

  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5694
Re: Ganging designs on screens
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2011, 08:34:53 AM »
We gang when we can, mostly a left chest print with the like color for the back. Generally we pin the full back (tri lock) and tape the left chest the old school way. I havent figured out how to tri-lock both.
We found a tube of ruby lith and have cut several pieces of different lengths.  We put the sep on a carrier and put the carrier on the pins.  Then we cover most of the rest of the area with a piece of ruby lith.  We burn one end then change the art, flip the screen around an we're ready to burn the other end.
Steve.....Why not burn it all in one shot? Is it because of the pre-registration?
BTW nice comments from Doug. Well thought out. I don't consult anymore but when I did I used that approach often. Its common to see printers and Production Managers switch jobs and try to make immediate change based on what worked for them elsewhere. That can quickly lead to failure. I've at times been asked (and asked others) "If you were to run this place starting tomorrow what would you change first?"
The answer is..........nothing. Observe and record. Postulate the consequences of implementing change. Proceed with caution.
tp

Offline T Shirt1

  • !!!
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: Ganging designs on screens
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2011, 09:46:07 AM »
Yes, it's because we want to use the tri loc pins on both ends.  We could tape the 'other' end the old school way but that would be defeating the tri loc. Even though we're shooting it twice we've still got only one screen in the production loop. It won't work on the screens with the sqaure bar on the bottom because the bolts get in the way.  Well it'll work but that screen will be out by about the depth of the bolt heads and that's too much of a pain to try and dial in.
steve