Press Question

[3Deep]

I know all us have own favor right press so to speak, but really what is the biggest turn off on buying from these companies....sales person, support after sell, ease of use etc or do the company really just make crappy equipment.  I know one said person who is not to be mention here seems to doom every press he is around, I'm thinking its this person, but the press is good, and once we buy something I think we let other people talk us into not liking what we got...then we start to pick it apart.  Example when I was  auto press shopping I narrowed my search down to 3 companies, M&R Anatol & Lawson, I had a whole host of people giving me advice on the right press.  I talk with a Lawson sales rep and was very very turned off by him, and decided Lawson equipment sucks, but do they really? no.  I talk with Rich at M&R very nice , but did not have a machine that would fit my needs, talk with Paul at Anatol very nice and they fit my needs.  So I ask whats your opinion, do companies make bad equipment or do bad sales rep turn you off them.

Darryl

[TCT]

I would say my biggest turn off BEFORE the sale would be sales people directly bad mouthing the competition. Just seems tacky, and if they really had a good product, you would think they would let that do the talking.
Also, having a clueless staff at the company if you call for questions is a flag for me.

It is hard to know 100% what service or support is going to be like before a sale. Yes you can go from word of mouth which is good and as long as the majority is singing the same song, chances are they are pretty accurate. But your experience could always be a bit different. Some people seem to like their anatol, and have not had problems. Personally for me, I do not know if there is anything that could make me buy something from them again. Let you in on a well kept secret - people seem to like the service M&R offers. Chances are you can bet they do a good job there. I have heard some negative things about them, but not enough for me to actually question wither or not their service dept. is poor.
Service and support is more of a thing I think you would discover after the sale.

For me a big thing I look at is how "fixable" is the machine. I don't mean like a certified tech fix the machine, but can I or someone I know fix basic problems.

Another thing is how capable is the machine? I don't mean to throw stones here or anything but in regards to your original three, I would of eliminated Lawson. This is based off my opinion. I just do not see them as a serious equipment manufacturer. I view them more as the gap between armature and professional.

I feel I am trailing a bit here, sorry about that.

Turnoff - when we were deciding about a press a few months ago, RPM was in my top 3. Turnoff, and probably the main reason we didn't go with them was turnaround. Rick said he was like 16 weeks or something like that out. Good for him, must mean he is busy. But for us that just didn't work.

I guess another turnoff would be "you know who". Just because how absolutely crazy his antics are. He may be a very nice man, but he has proven he can be out there with his tactics/sales style. I had actually got a quote once upon a time for his Blue horse RPM knock off. When I really thought about it, at the time it was too much of a gamble to put my faith and funds in to the press he was selling.

Sorry for being all over the place with my response! Welcome to my brain on a Monday!

[whitewater]

Well i just bought a auto last year...for me, since i had exactly no experience with, i wanted support. Not just from the company itself but from also other printers using them..The other printers know what problems may creep up or have fixed something before..AND the quality of the press.. I needed both.

The one thing i wished happened and i did mention it to the sales person after was maybe upselling a little on some things..Like maybe saying " you will want wing tipped floodbars" and " you will want sleeve pallets"..because when buying i wasnt exactly thinking of those things..it would have been alot easier to group everything together since i was getting financing..right now for me to go out and buy all that i can not do at the moment..so i have to use my manual on some things which sucks..LOL

[prozyan]

Well i just bought a auto last year...for me, since i had exactly no experience with, i wanted support. Not just from the company itself but from also other printers using them..The other printers know what problems may creep up or have fixed something before..AND the quality of the press.. I needed both.

That thought process played a huge role in my choice as well.

I had narrowed my search down to M&R and Anatol.  M&R because I think they should always be on your list to look at for equipment and Anatol because I think they offer the most bang for the buck in the small footprint models.  I ultimately chose M&R for a simple reason:  During the four months I was talking with Anatol, my sales rep changed three times and none of them could give me the name of a reliable tech in my area, instead being vague about it with "Well, when you need one, we'll call around and see who is available."  Not to mention they had a real hard sale that put me off.

On the other hand with my first inquiry to M&R, my sales rep drove over 700 miles just to visit me in person.  That was the deciding factor.

Six months later, I'm happy and confident I made the right decision.

[3Deep]

TCT, nothing bad here I was ranting a little myself, yes I'm very happy with my Anatol and would buy again, but this time I would really know more about what to look for and what I need and not be fed a line by a sales rep....I really think they can make or break a company look at you know who...to much wasted talent.

Darryl

[alan802]

I think there is a fine line between sales people bad mouthing the competition and telling you some of the things that the competition doesn't do well. I actually like talking to machine guys when they tell me certain features or lack of features hinders a press's performance. Or how a design flaw can cause this problem or that, you can learn a lot in that regard.  But when the sales guy just says something like "what are you going to do when they aren't in business 5 years from now?" Can be a turnoff if they arent asking the question genuinely.  But believe it or not, there are a few guys that might ask that question but be absolutely genuine and care about the answer to that question and really believe that you could be making a mistake due to a competitor struggling to be in business. 

Do you guys think that anything someone says about a competitor that is negative, even if it were a design flaw that was serious or a mention of terrible customer service that was legit (hard to know for sure if its legit but...)?

[TCT]

Do you guys think that anything someone says about a competitor that is negative, even if it were a design flaw that was serious or a mention of terrible customer service that was legit (hard to know for sure if its legit but...)?

No, I don't think everything negative brought up about a competitor is poor tactics. If there is truly a issue, then yes mention it. But don't make how a competitor is poor in one way or another your whole sales pitch, that I can not stand!

TCT, nothing bad here I was ranting a little myself, yes I'm very happy with my Anatol and would buy again, but this time I would really know more about what to look for and what I need and not be fed a line by a sales rep....I really think they can make or break a company look at you know who...to much wasted talent.

Darryl

I think for the most part sales reps will try to push going all servo, unless they are trying to sell a entry level press. I have to say, GO ALL SERVO! After upgrading to servo everything, I am pissed for all the years we were using air. That, and like everyone says, go at least 1 step bigger than you think you need. Another thing I would advise is a pre-registration system. I personally get lost in the math part, 12.7345 more screens per shift, @ $9.20 x 75 squared, add PI, divided by your birthday, and that is how much money you save, and it will pay for itself in 7,342.9985 minutes.  Um, look at it this way, it is FRICKIN awesome, top 4 decisions you can make, jobs are set up faster- nuff said.

Alex

[3Deep]

If I'm out shopping for a press and not a newbie, all I want to know is what there press is capable of doing, the bells and whistles your company offers with the press and service after the sale.  If you got more info about another companies product and less about your own that will kill a sale for me.

Darryl

[alan802]

On the subject of how a press is configured, for example, servo drive and AC print heads, I've never understood why there are so many servo driven and air operated print heads out there.  If I could only have one of those options, AC print heads or servo indexer, I'd choose AC print heads and it's not even close.  Sure it's nice to have a machine indexing smooth and quiet, but when it comes to performing the most important part of what we do, you know, the actual printing part, AC print heads are where it's at.  An air indexer or servo for that matter has nothing to do with the actual squeegee stroke.  If money were holding me back from getting both options on an auto, AC print heads are what's actually important yet you see a ton of servo driven presses with air operated print heads on the used market.  It should be the other way around if people were really concerned about how the machine prints, not how well it indexes.  Just my thoughts on that, anyone agree or disagree?  Or care?

[Prosperi-Tees]

I agree Alan even though I have never printed on an all servo press. I can't understand why that's not an option.

[ScreenPrinter123]

I agree Alan even though I have never printed on an all servo press. I can't understand why that's not an option.

It's ok Gerry, Alan's never printed on an all servo press either - he's still got an air lift ;-).

I wouldn't be so swift to dog the air presses in contrast to the ac/servo presses. We went from a v squeegee setup to a rhino press with choppers. That was a bigger jump, in my estimation, than when we went from all pneumatic to ac/servo. Indeed, I don't see all that much of a difference between the rhino and our current ac/servo press (the rhino definitely shook more with indexing and the lift - but the print stroke was uber smooth, quite similar to the ac head stroke we enjoy now). If I would've come directly from the v squeegee setup to the ac/servo press, I'd probably be in the "go all servo" bandwagon, but I was definitely exposed to a nice air press, as I imagine other brands are developing nice air presses too.

Having said all that, it could've also been the s mesh upgrade and all triple duros and smilin jacks that have made the difference that much more noticeable. Since we were putting such little pressure on the rhino in contrast to the v squeegee because, at least in part if not primarily, of the s mesh/triple duro setup, the print stroke was nice and smooth on that air machine.  The only difference I think I see is that we can print the heads faster, but it becomes meaningless when we get to the point that we can't keep up with the loading anyway.

[TCT]

If I'm out shopping for a press and not a newbie, all I want to know is what there press is capable of doing, the bells and whistles your company offers with the press and service after the sale.  If you got more info about another companies product and less about your own that will kill a sale for me.

Darryl

Websites were a huge help for me. I got all the specs I needed or wanted and "built" the machine we wanted from our "top 5" then got quotes on ONLY that machine/flash combo. NO up sells or "have you ever considered this", that was the best way to compare fruits... Some cases a few things on our "list" some companies didn't offer, so we came as close as we could with one of their products, just knowing in the end we would be sacrificing something if we went with them.

On the subject of how a press is configured, for example, servo drive and AC print heads, I've never understood why there are so many servo driven and air operated print heads out there.  If I could only have one of those options, AC print heads or servo indexer, I'd choose AC print heads and it's not even close.  Sure it's nice to have a machine indexing smooth and quiet, but when it comes to performing the most important part of what we do, you know, the actual printing part, AC print heads are where it's at.  An air indexer or servo for that matter has nothing to do with the actual squeegee stroke.  If money were holding me back from getting both options on an auto, AC print heads are what's actually important yet you see a ton of servo driven presses with air operated print heads on the used market.  It should be the other way around if people were really concerned about how the machine prints, not how well it indexes.  Just my thoughts on that, anyone agree or disagree?  Or care?

I care and COMPLETELY agree! There a few times with our air heads, the print stroke would "stutter" for some reason or another. Yes, we had plenty of air pressure. It happens ALL the time with our Q-Runner flash(anatols "Flashback" prior to the lawsuit) it is rare that it is a smooth in and out. AC heads are just a dream. AC indexing is nice, we are able to make our press run either direction(I imagine most AC index machines can) but it is nice and quiet! The only thing on our press that is air are the cylinders that raise or lower the print heads. Actually, I guess the "chopper" flood/print bars are also... Tiny motors there would be stupid though!

[Binkspot]

You really appreciate ac heads on a cold winter morning especially when the first job of the day is printing white poly. 

[mk162]

Yeah, i really don't know where there isn't an AC head with air index.  I've wondered the same thing.

the RPM is lose enough to all servo.  frankly, if it doesn't deal with the direct printing of the shirt, I don't really care if it's air or AC.

Although air does mean more freaking leaks.

[3Deep]

If I knew back then what I know now, I would have spent more money and ungraded my press to servo or ac print heads.  I'm happy with my all air press, but could have been happier if I had the AC heads or servo I'll know next time.

Darryl