Big Buddy Forced Air vs Ranar Turbo Jetstar vs Economax D (w/ 3 Panels)

[sonicweaponprinting]

So I've narrowed my next dryer upgrade down to three dryers, the first two being the Black Body Big Buddy Forced Air @ 8 FT and a 24" Belt, and the Ranar Turbo Jetstar for being forced air dryers since I'd like to start doing discharge printing. The Jetstar also advertizes that it can cure plastic inks as well. I happen to print Plastic Poly Mailer bags and have to let them air dry 20 mins before moving them, but know I can cure them @ 90-150 degrees Farenheit w/ an appropriate dryer in 10-15 seconds. Does this mean that any dryer with forced air can do this, since the Black Body Big Buddy advertises it can cure DTG or digital inks, I wasn't sure if this was in the same league being Nazdar PA (poly all) Series inks for printing onto plastic bags.

The third dryer choice, was an economax D w/ a 3rd radiant panel. This dryer is not forced air, however, seems to have the best ventilation design and of course is M&R which makes it well designed and engineered. The thing I want to know is, even w/ a 3rd panel, since w/ 2, I'd definitely have to slow the belt way down, should I look into just going w/ forced air, and forget having hopes that the 3rd panel will allow us to go a little faster than a 2 panel would force us to go, or go w/ the Big Buddy Forced Air. The Big Buddy seems well designed, but its ventilation system doesn't look as powerful since I'm operating from a home basement.

Anyone own one of these Forced Air big Buddy's and do discharge printing with any good/bad feedback?

[Evo]

The Ranar will be WAY better built than the Buddy. I've owned a small Black Body dryer and an older Jetstar, and I've worked with a larger Jetstar, and they are very nicely made. The newer ones are well insulated and have excellent ventilation. Not the fanciest out there, but they are well built and their customer service is friendly and responsive.

If you are considering discharge of any production quantities you should avoid the Economax. Even with a third panel, it won't perform as good with water based inks like forced air will. You need to evacuate water vapor, forced air is key here.

If you are doing discharge in a basement, make sure the dryer is vented to local codes and make sure you have plenty of active ventilation into and out of the shop. A good setup is one door or window open on each end with fans to move fresh air from one end to another. If not, expect some persistent headaches.

[MrBreeze]

I think Vastex is worth a look.

[mk162]

I think interchange can build an all electric model of their MD-8.

Also, i would look at used.  For the price of new, it's just not worth it in a lot of cases.  About 6 months after I bought my MD-8, the SAME exact size model showed up on the market for half.  And it was about 45 minutes north of me.

From that day i vowed to source the best deals out there...well maybe not, but I do try.

[Northland]

One comment about power.... some of these are 40 amp, 240 volt machines. You'll want to verify you have enough capacity in your service panel to handle the load. Whatever you buy.. make sure to get a PID digital controller (I think all of the models you listed have PID).

I bought a used, three panel Economax, two months ago... but I haven't tried anything water-base or discharge in it yet. It has a fan that pulls air up through the heat chamber at 140 cfm. I didn't see any mention of water-base capability on the M&R website, but I wouldn't be surprised if it worked marginally at a low production speed.

I found a used Economax for $1,750.

[sonicweaponprinting]

One comment about power.... some of these are 40 amp, 240 volt machines. You'll want to verify you have enough capacity in your service panel to handle the load. Whatever you buy.. make sure to get a PID digital controller (I think all of the models you listed have PID).

I bought a used, three panel Economax, two months ago... but I haven't tried anything water-base or discharge in it yet. It has a fan that pulls air up through the heat chamber at 140 cfm. I didn't see any mention of water-base capability on the M&R website, but I wouldn't be surprised if it worked marginally at a low production speed.

I found a used Economax for $1,750.

Wow, thats a great deal man. Ive been looking for several months, found a guy close but his is in need of TLC and is only 2 panels. Im still searching.

[Evo]

I didn't see any mention of water-base capability on the M&R website, but I wouldn't be surprised if it worked marginally at a low production speed.

problem with smaller radiant panel only dryers is at the type of belt speeds needed to achieve a proper cure with water based inks, you are often right at the edge of scorching the garment. Sure you can drop the temp, and raise the panels, and now you are running the belt much slower than a good manual printer can print.

One trick I used to do with single color stuff or other things I could print fast, is to flash the shirts even if they didn't need it. This would dry the ink surface, then allow it to cool as it went around the press. Then it was through the dryer at just a fast enough belt speed to keep up with me. (I had a small Jetstar)

This indirectly added a third panel to my two panel dryer.

Caveat: even with a high speed fan pulling in fresh air into the shop, and the ceiling fan pulling air out, it was still a fume fest. This was for straight wb ink only, I rarely did this with discharge, as I wasn't fond of the two day headaches.

[inkbrigade]

We had a Ranar turbo jet star and it was a great electric dryer.

[sonicweaponprinting]

I didn't see any mention of water-base capability on the M&R website, but I wouldn't be surprised if it worked marginally at a low production speed.

problem with smaller radiant panel only dryers is at the type of belt speeds needed to achieve a proper cure with water based inks, you are often right at the edge of scorching the garment. Sure you can drop the temp, and raise the panels, and now you are running the belt much slower than a good manual printer can print.

One trick I used to do with single color stuff or other things I could print fast, is to flash the shirts even if they didn't need it. This would dry the ink surface, then allow it to cool as it went around the press. Then it was through the dryer at just a fast enough belt speed to keep up with me. (I had a small Jetstar)

This indirectly added a third panel to my two panel dryer.

Caveat: even with a high speed fan pulling in fresh air into the shop, and the ceiling fan pulling air out, it was still a fume fest. This was for straight wb ink only, I rarely did this with discharge, as I wasn't fond of the two day headaches.

Excellent input, brilliant thinking on the preflash as a 'third panel' .. Very smart.

So if I was using a decent exhaust system on the black body forced air do you think there would be as many fumes? I was hoping to not have to flash by doing discharge all wet on wet, as I heard flashing a white is unnecessary as it doesnt make a huge difference in overall vibrance after the discharge has taken effect.

[Frog]

The only problem with this "pre-flash" thinking is that the ink cure is not cumulative, but rather fully dependent on temperature. If allowed to cool, the flashed shirt should have no more likelihood to fully cure than one not flashed.

[Evo]

The only problem with this "pre-flash" thinking is that the ink cure is not cumulative, but rather fully dependent on temperature. If allowed to cool, the flashed shirt should have no more likelihood to fully cure than one not flashed.

The cure with water based inks only starts to take place once the moisture is out. Pre-flashing gets the process started. It will (at least partially) evaporate some of the moisture and dry the surface, then the dryer can do the rest, instead of the dryer having to handle the drying of the ink AND the curing.

I can attest that the wash tests I've done show that the pre-flashing really helps when running a small dryer right at the limits of what it can cure in production.

[Nick Bane]

The only problem with this "pre-flash" thinking is that the ink cure is not cumulative, but rather fully dependent on temperature. If allowed to cool, the flashed shirt should have no more likelihood to fully cure than one not flashed.

The cure with water based inks only starts to take place once the moisture is out. Pre-flashing gets the process started. It will (at least partially) evaporate some of the moisture and dry the surface, then the dryer can do the rest, instead of the dryer having to handle the drying of the ink AND the curing.

I can attest that the wash tests I've done show that the pre-flashing really helps when running a small dryer right at the limits of what it can cure in production.

x2

[Evo]

So if I was using a decent exhaust system on the black body forced air do you think there would be as many fumes? I was hoping to not have to flash by doing discharge all wet on wet, as I heard flashing a white is unnecessary as it doesnt make a huge difference in overall vibrance after the discharge has taken effect.

I would flash discharge only ever as a last resort. It really doesn't make a difference in the look, but it may help in the curing of the ink if you are jamming single color. If your doing wet-on-wet multi color, you probably don't need the pre-flash if your dryer is decent.

But no matter what, exhaust the dryer properly. For discharge, it's never a bad idea to add a fume hood at the exit and/or entrance of the tunnel, and have it vent separately from the main exhaust. You want to pull as much fumes and vapor out as possible.