Thinning Optilux 505 Reflective Ink?

[juliesd]

Hi,
I need to dilute/thin Optilux 505 reflective ink. It has to be so thin, that I can spray it out of one of those sprays you use for straying plants with water or cleaning products. An atomizer? I´ve mixed it with water and have been stirring and stirring, but it just doesn´t seem to become thinner The water and ink more or less stay separated. A friend of mine gave me some, which she had mixed with water. But the ink was a different brand. She said she had just stirred it with her hands. But it´s just not working for me with this ink. I haven´t mixed in the coupler 100, as it´s not important for the print to last. Could this have something to do with it?...Any tips out there? Thanks

[Frog]

First off, welcome. It's always especially nice to see someone from another country (continent, hemisphere) join us.

As for your ink question, I'd take the manufacturer's suggestion, and ask one of their experts. http://www.iccink.com/optilux/index.htm
Techs really are your friend!

[juliesd]

Thank you for your warm welcome

And yes, you´re right, I should contact the experts, which I have done now. Looking forward to their reply...

[mk162]

After looking on the website, optilux 505 is plastisol based, which will not thin with water.  You need a thinner that is oil/petroleum based.

The manufacturer should be able to recommend something, but the sprayer is the tricky part, the reflective particles might be too much for a sprayer to handle.

[juliesd]

Ok well the it makes sense that it´s not working. Hope to find some other solution. The other product which my friend gave me passed easily through the sprayer. It was 3M Reflective Ink, which they don´t produce anymore. Just looked on 3Ms website and saw that their product is water-based. Could that be the reason why it was possible to dilute this ink with water?

[ebscreen]

Yes, waterbased inks can be diluted with water. I'd wager there is still a producer of a waterbased reflective
ink out there.

Out of curiosity, can you tell us what you are making?

[tonypep]

Pavonine used to have a reflective base that we would incorporate the 3M crystals into. So perhaps Rutland. Pretty sure Matsui. Back then the WB products exhibited the most reflectivity and were the only ones approved for Gov workers but that may have changed.

[juliesd]

So the latest is that I need a curable reducer in order to dilute Plastisol.

Here are extracts from the reply
 "When diluted, I'm not sure spraying it through a water sprayer would work well, as the ink does contain microscopic glass beads for the reflectivity"
and

"If you dilute it a lot it might not work with a sprayer as you need enough ink to preserve the reflective result"

But what I´m thinking now is; The product which I´ve worked with before was 3Ms Reflective Ink. It´s water-based and I used water to dilute it. It was extremely diluted. It was no trouble using it with the water sprayer. It gave a good result, lots of reflection
So, I´m wondering, is there a big difference between diluting a water-based ink with water and an oil-based ink with curable reducer. By this I mean, does it change the microscopic glass beads? Will the ink act differently? If too much curable reducer is used, will it eliminate the reflective effect? If not, my guess is it should work as well as the water-based diluted with water.


Any thoughts on that??? This is getting complicated

Tonypep; thanks for your suggestions, but I can´t seem to find any reflective water-based ink on either of your suggested sites

Thanks guys

[tonypep]

Almost as well but probably well enough. Wilflex has a glitter base that soaks into the fabric I would try that if it is available. It is plastisol.

[Sbrem]

I don't see how the reflective particles will go through an atomizer very well, but I'd love to hear how it goes...

Steve

[Frog]

Don't forget that thinned or not, plastisol has specific curing temperatures.

[juliesd]

Ebscreen, I forgot to answer your question about what I am working on and why I need this dilution
Well I´m a video artist, so it´s for a video piece. I am making a backdrop with the ink sprayed on to black fabric. Then I am making costumes where the reflective ink has also been sprayed onto black clothes. I shot in a dark room using 2 bicycle lights as the only light source. This is the visual style of the video piece. Hope it makes sense. It should really be experienced

Sbrem; Since the particles went through with the water diluted 3M ink, I imagine it would work with curable reducer diluted plastisol as well??

Frog; The curing temperating doesn´t really matter, as the costumes and backdrop will just be thrown out after the shooting, but thanks

[Frog]

Frog; The curing temperating doesn´t really matter, as the costumes and backdrop will just be thrown out after the shooting, but thanks

It does matter with the plastisol as it will remain wet and/or sticky until it reaches cure temp.
It will offset on anything it touches, it could be quite a mess.
Waterbased, even if not wash fast, can air dry or perhaps be force dried in a clothes dryer or with a hand iron.

[juliesd]

Ah ok. I didn´t realize that.
I have only worked with the water-based , which dried within 24h. Since it was diluted, it was not very thick layer either. But thanks, I´ll remember that about plastisol.

[Sbrem]

I'm thinking that even reduced, the plastisol curable reducer is still too thick and gummy. I used to print 3M on paper strips for a local manufacturer (something they did in their process) it was their 7200 series, but it's flammable, so obviously it can't be thinned with water... Pavonine was a good reflective, water based ink. They were available through Union Inks, but I don't know if they are still around... as for curing the plasitsol if you can make it work, you can undercure with a heat gun (not a hair dryer) enough to get it to set up and at least not get all over the place.

Steve

out of curiosity, are your lights on the camera's lens axis?