Warning!!!!!!Canvass black shirts not discharging

[tonypep]

Irregular ink shading. The bad ones yellow. All from India. Will keep you posted.

[jsheridan]

Canvas has always been bad.. its a division of bella.

[brandon]

I agree. It's like a box of chocolates, you just never know what your gonna' get with those guys.

But to be serious they are on the bottom of our list for discharge

[kingscreen]

We had a similar issue with some black American Apparel 2001s. What we discovered, via a chatty rep, is that when stock levels get low or a larger order eats up their black stock, they will take other stock and re-dye it. In our case, they had redyed royal blue tees to black. The end result was a white discharge that came out with a stained-aqua hue. I would lean to say this is likely a common practice. It could just be the batch you received.

[ZooCity]

So the 3001U, US made, is "guaranteed dischargeable"...I'll test that someday.

I just ran 800pcs of the 3001 in Leaf (overseas, no guarantee statement) with CCI D-white and they all discharged but I had variance, seemingly related to point of mfg.  It went from bright white to an eggshell/ivory.  Client was fine with this luckily but it would've needed an overprint white if not. 

Everyone seems to be overdyeing more and more.  I had the same issue with AA 2001 blacks recently.  Pain in the ass, and AA, I've noted, will even have panels of the same shirt pulled from different dye lots which is aggravating as all get out.

I'm leaning toward gearing our white prints to be DC ub with the CCI WB opaque White (or Matsui's) on top, just to eliminate the ag with this...it's not going to get better with the economy in the situation it's in, mills are doing what they have to do.   

[jsheridan]

mills are doing what they have to do.

They tend to follow the trends to meet our demands. I'd expect to see more DS friendly lines as the movement from oil to water is no longer a rock rolling down hill.. it's a friggen boulder now and the mills will have no choice but to meet our needs.

[Spreading Ink]

And to add to what John said - we need to be sure to communicate issues back to the manufacturers and mills as much as we can when we see issues - it does no good to not be vocal the more vocal we are the more likely we are to get their attention. 

It's funny that some of the priciest brands are the worst for discharge - Alternative (which I really disdain) makes shirts in Egypt and somewhere else (maybe China?).  Last time I printed them we were doing a 5 or 6 color all over and all of the ones from Egypt were sulfur based dye (cheap and non reactive).

Tony thanks for the heads up - I think I have a job on schedule at contract right now for all over prints that the customer wanted to send Canvas in on - I may need to give them a call tomorrow as the timelines on it were tight and I am not going to have time to meet their dates if we get halfway through an all over print that doesn't discharge correctly!

[brandon]

Yup, with Canvas we had shirts from Egypt, India, and Pakistan all in one run. But not to knock on just them I am sure Hanes, FOL, and others are the same. Besides that they are usually all sized different. From India a small would be a medium from Pakistan and so on. Welcome to the global economy. Why can't we bring it all back? Oh yeah, we all want cheap prices for cheap crap

[brandon]

mills are doing what they have to do.

They tend to follow the trends to meet our demands. I'd expect to see more DS friendly lines as the movement from oil to water is no longer a rock rolling down hill.. it's a friggen boulder now and the mills will have no choice but to meet our needs.

I recently had a shop owner in Austin, TX tell me that wb is a fad. All hogwash as he put it. Two autos and busy from what he told me. They have the music scene on a lockdown. Interesting. Interesting on how that will turn out for them. Anybody from Austin on here? According to him nobody, nobody does water base there. Anybody want to partner up?

[Spreading Ink]

Yep.... and I have been told that all over's are a fad too - ok with me - keep us busy and we draw other work from having the capability! 

Honestly back when we made the decision to bite off doing all overs there was a lot we didn't know and very little help for figuring any of it out.  Even I thought there would be a 'shelf life' to them when we made the investment and was a bit concerned about whether or not it would hang on long enough to truly overcome the investment and make it all worthwhile (not only financially - but also the headaches too). 

While it is true that they may have 'calmed down' some - it is also true that they really haven't and I don't think are going away soon now.  Why?  Well for one thing the capabilities that can be done with them is much greater than it was the first time around back in the 90's.  A perfect example - when we started doing them we were reluctant to do more than 3 colors and were constantly concerned about registration etc....  Now, as long as I think the art is reasonable for the type of print (and we see plenty that I wouldn't qualify as being so) I don't worry about prints too much even up to 8 colors - do I 'like' doing them at 8 colors - not really, but at the same time I won't just out of hand say no to one because it requires it now.

Water base/discharge going away - not likely - truthfully as more printers learn to use the inks (they are different - but not really that hard - just different) they will become more popular.  We actually print about 70% water base or discharge these days.  Do I think plastisols are going to go away - not really anytime soon as there are still customers who prefer them - maybe someday - don't know that I'll still be sling'n ink long enough to see that day come around though.

[mk162]

also as WB inks become more and more user friendly and plastisol prices keep going up and up, and with plastisol you have more to deal with stupid laws banning some of their components, WB will come out on top.

I need to do more WB

[tonypep]

All true. SI I had the first four M&R allovers and, in different shops ran eight belt printers so I know all about where your at; congrats. The reason allovers faded away wasn't fad it was cost. Retail simply couldn't absorb the high cost of contract printing this work. Those who tried to do it for cheap went under. It was and always will be popular

[RICK STEFANICK]

Irregular ink shading. The bad ones yellow. All from India. Will keep you posted.

tony what style? i just ordered 1300 black 3001,3001y,3005 and 3005y for a discharge order due next week.. that doesnt sound good

[Spreading Ink]

Tony - really appreciate your warning as I print Canvas (for anything wb or plastisol) so rarely that I had forgotten they really weren't great for discharge.  Mentioned the customer who is sending us 250 for the all over print job and they changed the garment to Tultex - which I know will discharge just fine - crisis on a short turn all over print averted! 

Thanks again - I didn't need the aggravation!

[mk162]

FYI, tultex shirts should be getting a lot better if they aren't already.  they pulled production out of the middle east and put it in mexico